1. Potions having no semblance of animation or tangible existence feels dreadful, weaving in between burst against non-stop counter burst promotes a very team reliant and comp reliant environment for Feast as a whole.
2. Healers have a lot less responsibility when it comes to how deaths happen, there is a massive increase in team reliance seeing as how each team member has to actively min-max the usage of pots and utility spacing with cooldowns and bolt.
3. All the jobs being stripped of single target centric cooldowns or combos in favor for AoE was incredibly unnecessary and applies absolutely 0 emphasis on the goal of the meta which is AoE pressure, the existence of the melee's AoE combos is downright pointless and lazy filler that adds no form of enjoyment from flowing with your job's optimal mechanics.
4. Healing as a whole is light years more torturous now then it was before, as stated above, reliance on teammates to properly use potions and bolt to save themselves or help you out is extremely unhealthy in any perspective known to man in Feast exclusively. Having the option of a tier 1 AoE heal for the base MP cost is unwelcomed seeing as it just makes you more vulnerable to single target, there is no compromise with the decision of gcds in proper play, its a decision of dealing with AoE pressure in a meta where damage is overblown to numbers beyond what a healer can do by itself.
5. Tanks have lost their identity completely not only with how their job functions, but as the role entirely. CC being a lot more scarce is a factor alone that defeats the purpose of their existence, if blue dps wasn't a meme before, it sure is a goddamn reality now. The universal AoE all tanks share proves my point further, all copy paste, poor excuse of utility for what the role named tank should have, and general gameplay is in extremely poor taste in terms of flow and longevity throughout the match. There are specific skills that promote the use of an additional, Rampart. This is an amazingly gross addition seeing as how the point of an additional is to encourage choice and an ADDITION, these specific skills make it borderline mandatory for the extra effect, if other skills had similar treatment for varying additionals, this would be fine, but these skills only target one specific additional.
6. All the ranged were changes to promote pressure above all else, this is a direct shift of goal between the meta completely, one which is not welcome in this map specifically, as for preference it is subjective and personally its disgusting, but do consider re-adding the other maps that would better suit this specific type of play that will assumingly be supported from now on.
- These points correlate with Feast, they seem to be Frontlines focused as well, and as far as we know they could just be experimenting, but as of now this is all 10/10 terrible.
These changes are absolutely terrible.
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10-30-2019, 11:47 AMCritThese changes are absolutely terrible.
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10-30-2019, 12:19 PMBloodRubyXII
And you know what you'll get in return for this thread? You'll be swept under the rug and disowned like an abandoned teddy bear rotting at a child's grave. I'm still having more fun than I did in 5.0 (actually a lot of fun, but it doesn't mean this is good lol, it just happens to be new and better than what I had before, anything's an improvement on 5.0), but I felt a lot different about pvp after scrims than I did after my first training game, and mostly not for the better.
Just so in a months time everyone's going to repeat the same stuff you just said and be upvoted en masse for it. Can't wait. That's why I'm just going to get all my feedback out the way in the first few days, take the hit for it then in a month or when the season starts and people just repeat things I said on day one (which almost always happens btw) - I'll just say concern froge and meme and take them as seriously as they took me and deliberately take an opposing opinion just to annoy them. -
10-30-2019, 02:01 PMSaintly
Even tho i completely agree, i doubt that any mod/dev will see your post since they don't give a rats ass about NA/EU.
We can only pray that JP share the same opinion since they gonna make changes on their feedback alone.
LE: Was really looking forward to next feast season but with the current changes it'll be a complete mess.
If they decide to go ahead and start a ranked season i hope that at the very least they gonna use 5.0 skills till they find a solution to this FL focused changes.
Yes, AST is gonna be the only solid choice for healer but i'd rather have that than this mess of a balance we currently got. -
10-30-2019, 02:22 PMRisvertasashi
The "potions" should have been in 5.0. People need more responsibility for their own survival, and have for a long time. Healers have been too defining.
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10-30-2019, 04:24 PMAraxes
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10-30-2019, 06:47 PMFannah
Was the author post ironic ? I thought it was, then now I'm seeing people answering seriously they agree with it.
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10-30-2019, 09:17 PMNedkel
I agree on tanks part.
Imo overall pvp is a little better but dear god tanks are now a copy paste of each other, there is little to no difference between them now.
5.0 was better in terms of playstyle diversity. -
10-30-2019, 11:06 PMRumari
I agree with OP. I can't stand the new changes. Everything feels way too rushed. I said all night new FL makes me feel like i'm running around inside a schizophrenic's mind. It's way to busy/rushed and the skills aren't really any better then they were before. While some jobs im ok with (bard for the most part, and i hear nin is better?) others i can't stand. People are dieing way too easily whether thats because they nerfed healing pot, or people aren't using potions (i know i forgot i had it sometimes when i actually played a dps last night) i don't know. Ast feels like trash now. While i don't mind the abridged changes since they were like this a few patches ago, we had lightspeed to help. I'd kinda rather the lightspeed then the AOE heal. And DNC's aoe combo seems totally useless. DNC is a ranged job, that more then half the time has to play as a melee. But in doing so you just drop, instantly. Even with using curing waltz/potions/healers healing you. I think i used the aoe combo once last night because its just not worth it to go in and use it most times. I personally loved pvp, despite all the changes they've made in the past few years. This change however im having a hard time with liking.
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10-31-2019, 01:44 AMNedkel
They should replace these aoes for something spicy, because these are useless most of the times for real...
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10-31-2019, 01:58 AMAraxesThe Author is a Stormblood PvPer. He will do everything in his power to prevent PvP from becoming a skillbased Mode again. To achieve this he always uses the "new Players/its fairer/apparently more tactical" Excuses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
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10-31-2019, 05:56 AMGuesswhat
Can't speak for feast, but imo FL is ok.
All the aoe can be a better choice in some circumstances (FL), but I can't imagine the aoes being very useful in feast.
Haven't tried PAL yed but I've seen some pretty tanky PALs. Need to check out dat shiet.
Honestly, with all these major changes at this frequency, it makes me lose interest. Why bother learning more than 1, or a few, jobs if they constantly change things. It's not fun. I know PvE (aka the "real" game, not mini-game PvP) have changed some as well, but not nearly to the extent PvP has. Imagine if they redesigned all jobs for PvE at this rate. The rage would be real. Just shows how little focus PvP really has. -
10-31-2019, 06:18 AMFannahIs being a Stormblood PvP player an insult now? xD If he likes it, he has the right to make his voice heard as way more people on the forum are for HW PvP return. It's even nice to hear both side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araxes
And well, it can be viewed as more tactical as it's way easier to use a rotation so more people on the map have an idea of what to do, making the mode more about decision making, while it was easier to be a noobstomper when it was about PvE skills. Think also about the dev team that said they want to have a mode more easy to balance from a PvP point of view while every change for PvE purpose would impact PvP. They were also right to remove stats as it was not really about who was the best as PvE had a role to play here, or the farming aspect of PvP with the special stat made for it.
Noobstomp to get Battle High bonus to kill them again and again and the as skill based players (which is still possible) is not what I would call being skilled. Wonder if you had an adventure mode in Street fighter, and when you get stats bonuses in it, you get it for your online competitive plays (which is what FFXIV PvP is), and when you got 4 wins in a row, you get +30% dmg on all your hits on top of that (and more at 8kills). Let's be honest about the fact too many people are overall lost about what to do in Feast and Frontline.
I was MCH during HW, and I found stupid (sometimes fun) I could OS people with all buffs, stun + "Between the eyes". I don't call that being skilled.
I believe it would be ok to have a more skill based game if the player base was splitted with a ranking system (of course I talk about FL here).
Queue showed itself people were not interested in PvP (way less than in Stormblood). Anyway, I don't believe they will make a comeback about PvE aspect being PvP again, with PvE skills and stats.
For now, they added more skills to use, which is what people asked.
What makes you think current PvP is not skillbased, btw? I can tell it kinda still is when I'm able to 1v2 people (2 melee), to 1V1 a melee using his LB while I didn't, to kill someone and I have 80% HP left. (I'm usually monk).
In Feast it needs coordination which people are not even able to provide with an easy rotation. Why would they know much better what to do with PvE rotation.
Well, maybe my problem is that tbh FFXIV PvE is not that skillbased in itself, and it will be even less without PvE mechanics to dodge/succeed everytime, so better having a system more rewarding decision making. -
10-31-2019, 06:43 AMCritYou clearly lack english comprehension. I did not talk about mechanical skill in any shape or form. These changes are major design flaws by nature. Addition of extra buttons didn't make the mode harder or easier, it's just different. Keep your "3.x was the best" mentality out of any opinion you have in regards to PvP's philosophy and design choices in the future, that emotional attachment to a flawed past is pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araxes
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10-31-2019, 06:46 AMFannah
Some people seems to struggle to see the irony in the author's post. I'll translate it a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
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10-31-2019, 06:52 AMGuesswhatNo, no, no, no...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
There was much more tactical room before. When you dumb down a system, it doesn't get more tactical potential. It's not more decision-making now; it's easier to make decisions. There were more decisions before, but most people were too ignorant, and/or dindn't care, and/or it overwhelmed them.
You are right that it is more popular now, and that this game isn't very challenging. The skill ceiling in the old system perhaps made it more divisive, but also, imo, more rewarding.
There are things that are better now imo.
*Gear is purely aesthetic.
*Low lever requirement, not hidden behind end-game.
*The automatic cc immunities works better.
*probably more I can't think of atm. -
10-31-2019, 07:28 AMFannahI agree, I didn't mean there are more decisions now, I mean that currently, decision weighs more compared to the player skill needed compared to how it was before, as they dumbed down what players had to do with their skills, as you said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guesswhat
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10-31-2019, 08:27 AMAraxesI refered to many of your other posts i stumbled upon while sitting in the 2 hour PVP queue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crit
Its really just a Meme. In our CW-linkshell we also cname them "Garos" or "Kupos", sometimes "4.X Hero."Quote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
Gotta say we got a lot of Top 100 Veterans from HW in there, some of them still playing Top 100 every Season or/and participating in The Feast Regional Championships. Most of us just miss skillfull pvp. -
10-31-2019, 12:47 PMNyneSwordz
I kinda get the complaint about getting "potions" for actions. At least they could have included the old pvp heal action - forgot what it's called off the top of my head. Seems kind of lazy.
I like some of the changes for Warriors, actually I like most if not all of them, but Nascent Flash still requiring a party target is a deal breaker for me because I mainly Frontlines PvP.
Gunbreaker and Paladins healing on their burst attacks plus their bubbles/heals from their targetable 30 sec cooldown is so beyond what a Warrior can do without Nascent Flash. Wars not being able to use Nascent Flash because a party member isn't nearby, and have to resort to pathetic Stormspath for heals is annoying as heck. Not to say the potion heals aren't good, they are, but since everyone gets them, my original point stands...
I'm alright sitting out PvP for a while... -
11-01-2019, 02:05 AMawesomegaI'm assuming this is something he cares about since its not a post of calling someone a frontline hero or boasting how his alts are gonna take all the top 100 prizesQuote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
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11-01-2019, 03:01 AMDivinemightsI usually just adopt to the changes instead of complaining but 3.0 and 4.0 system did dumb down better players and restrict them to lesser performers. The system is too simple to differtiate player base in their skill. Take Machinest in 4.0 for example, I simply taught a burst rotation to a friend who never touch the job or play on Feast; he can easily took out a ranked feasted in about 4 GCDsQuote:
Originally Posted by Fannah
I can understand why a lot of old PvP players would like to have old PvP system back. -
11-01-2019, 06:21 PMAraxesThank you! At least one who understands :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Divinemights
Yes the Reason we would like the old PvP back is simply that it needed skill and to a lot of us it was simply more fun. But we are on the way of betterment now, if they give us 24 mans back you could say its "acceptable" again. Still not as good as it was but definetly better. -
11-02-2019, 07:22 PMKaelia
7. Lack of 8v8v8 FL. Come on, this is a given. Not everyone can play from 8pm - 12am. Some people have different schedules... imagine that. These PvP changes are the worst yet. I am very angry with SE after this debacle.
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11-03-2019, 05:28 AMRumari
On a note i haven't really seen mentioned yet, i'd like to get my 8 man parties back. Being in such a large community of people who like to do frontlines together(primal DC specifically, i don't know about others), but having to pick and choose who they actually group with is just sad. I get why they did it, i just don't agree with it and know many others who feel the same. And I feel if people had issues with 8 man premades they need to take time to get to know other players and make their own parties. There are tons of Cross-world linkshells out there now revolved around PVP that it shouldn't of been a problem. This is supposed to be a social game, and that social aspect is slowly being taken away. Don't hurt those of us who have made friends through the years of doing this.
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11-03-2019, 05:39 AMMoonliteQuote:
Originally Posted by Rumari
They could add 8 man feast back in, matches were fast. So if you get stomped it would only be a couple mins out of your day. I am actually hoping that the removing of 8 man premades was a well though out decision to add more content to a PvP roulette. People need dreams. -
11-04-2019, 12:44 AMJimBond007
Am I the only one who thinks :
Waiting time to return to battle after incapacitation is now fixed at 5 seconds.
That change is dumb ?
Just play a game, one player did : 0 kill, 9 deaths. That's 45 points lost. Since they removed "the punishment +5 secs per death". Noobs keep respawning and keep feeding the enemies.
The best player of my team did 23 kills, it's like his good teamwork was wasted by a single noob player.
Two days ago, I saw an another player who did a pretty bad score : 2 kills, 10 deaths. TEN DEATHS ! I have never seen before someone dieing 10 times in a single match.
I prefer the old respawn system. -
11-04-2019, 03:22 PMFannah
I believe they did so because it's easier to kill someone.
Even if someone's good overall, once people will know how to burst and will get more confident with the rework of classes, believe me it's not 2 healers that will save you, nor your defensive CD + potion. When you see how quick it is in 1v1, Monk / Ninja /Samurai chunk really hard, so quickly, from 0 ressources built (so it's even stronger when they built them already). -
11-05-2019, 07:13 AMAkaeiNox
In Secure you can just send a party to farm flames at spawn point, until every one in your party get a max buff from kills/assists. (Just watch the invuln)
Since new players can just come back to feed. -
11-05-2019, 10:48 AMjoep
PvP is awful now and if you know anything about the highest level of pvp in this game, you’d agree that even 4.x pvp was better than this
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11-05-2019, 11:55 AMFannahMaybe but we don't know the potentialy highest level of pvp in 5.1. Too many people asked a way or another for more buttons to press to have more player-skill implied.Quote:
Originally Posted by joep
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11-06-2019, 01:29 AMBloodRubyXIIKEKW alt posters :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by joep
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11-06-2019, 06:44 AMAramyth
I miss Divine Bension. Would rather have that than Medica.