What are your opinions on optimal pull size in the 71-79 dungeons?

I've always been in the camp of "bigger-is-better", but after working on a couple of tanks as well as AST through those levels I've been having second thoughts. A lot of healers either aren't able to keep up with larger pulls, or the party spends the entirety of the fight on the brink of wiping. While on the other hand, if you have a good healer (one who DPSes whenever possible) and you keep pulls in the 1-2 group range they seem to melt pretty fast.

Of course, maybe PLD is just really bad for big pulls in that level range (I don't remember struggling so much on WAR), and my view on optimal strategy has become warped.

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

Ive found the defining issue is the mobs use of AOE's and the templates of those AOE's

big pulls with mobs that direct attack are no drama, but a big pull of aoe spamming mobs can get very hard on close range players or if the availible space is tight

Oddly, Holminster switch seems to be the most dangerous, probably because it's before you get back / improve your mitigation and healers get their newer healing tools. The Bears there serve as good indicators of how big your pull to should be, either killing first then pulling the rest, or using them as the stop gap for a two pack.

HS is completely doable in wall to wall, though it does seem far more stressful than the rest of them, outside the two potential mega pulls in Mt. Gulg, but if you're going for those, you probably aren't pugging.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

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DRK's are gods in dungeons. They have massive aoe damage (If I'm not first, I'm usually second) and TBN is amazing. I leveled DRK last because of the stigma and I don't see their weakness.

On topic: Double pulls are basically safe if everyone is on their game.

I only remember doing maybe three runs where we didn't consistently full pull, across all the jobs I've leveled on this character and a similar number across my alt?

Given that I've only seen 2 wipes (when a tank full-pulled Ravel without popping *any* CDs and while wearing SB gear, the other when my tank d/ced and the PLD didn't bother to Clemency himself) in those sixty or so runs, full pulls seem pretty optimal.

My tank-related $.02 (I have GNB and PLD maxed on the other character, WAR and DRK on this one): WAR typically felt the squishiest overall to me until able to max out NF with double-Infuriate. DRK drops the hardest between its burst mitigation (TBNs). GNB feels like it has the least control over whether it lives or dies. PLD feels overall sturdiest. There's not a single one I had difficulty full-pulling with, though, provided you don't have a healer who insists on using their cheapest spell only (Benefic, Physick, Cure) despite being near max mana.

Edit: One exception to the full pulls: Mt. Gulg. I tended to see the first 3-pack pull split into two (into the first pack and then the last two) for convenience just because of the massive run time between, especially after people stopped assuming it was just the two visible pulls. (Most would forget about the third drop-down pull, and therefore have to do that one last.) The last three-pack would sometimes also be split to do the last set separately.

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

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With a PLD using hallowed ground, plus their normal CD's and clemency (if in immediate danger depending on player), anything can practically be pulled after level 60 for the job. With the right players, you can do what would normally be considered impossible to some. High dps can skip phases quicker in endgame and non related endgame content. So I'm not really seeing the issue with it. Some people are just bad at pulling and not knowing their go-to and strength of the team or their fellow fc members. That's the whole point of learning your job and the jobs around you (or the people you play with). Isn't that why we read our tool tips? Isn't that why we play to learn our job? (Some of us at least)? The difference between players who play to enjoy but also to learn? Now, a lot of folks aren't gonna be able to do that. And that's understandable. Not everyone is gonna pick it up and think or know how to run some content better than others, or it may take people longer. It's a learning experience. But that's the key difference between people trying, people who learned and know how to, and people who just want to play the game cause "you don't pay my sub".

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

PLD is the GOAT between 71-79 dungeons. Depends on which tank I'm on, and what healer I have. If I have a WHM, it doesn't matter which tank I use cause I can pull everything or 2 packs (minimum) and be fine. But with AST, SCH, I limit it to 2 packs (unless the healer thinks they can go for more or I know them personally). For me, it all comes back to who my DPS are (how they're geared) and what rotations they're spitting for dps up time. This includes my healer gear and how they heal, and myself with CD's

PLD - almost no match 71-79.
GNB - Very close second, but lags behind a little compared to PLD
WAR - so so about 70/30
DRK - always bottom tier of the list

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You have to be joking. PLD and GNB have some of the weakest self cooldowns in the game. Sure Camouflage and sheltron are great with trash but...Compared to TBN? lol nope.

DRK and WAR are easily the best trash mob tanks. TBN is amazing, RI is amazing. Living shadow basically clones you, doubling your aoe damage, and WAR has chaotic cyclone and vengeance and IR.
Holmgang can also be used 3-4 times per dungeon where as Hallowed may sometimes only be usable once, maybe twice depending on the dungeon.
Clemency should not be factored in to the equasion - If you need to use clemency then your healer is either undergeared or you are, or one of you sucks.

All the tanks are pretty similar when it comes to trash, but DRK and WAR are hands down the better 4 man dungeon tanks.

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

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This has always been a problem in this game, especially outside of ARR. Literally the only midcore content in the game is extreme trials, everything else is either casual or hardcore, or in the case of ARR, casual or midcore.

I would say it's due to a lack of resources or time...But they've had time to instead implement Eureka and Diadem that i think would of been time better spent on more midcore content like extreme mode dungeons that actually have mechanics, or even 8 man dungeons. Or hell, just more extreme trials.

I'm no tank (WHM and AST) but I'm gonna pipe in and agree that DRK seems to be hands down the sturdiest tank in dungeons with rando pugs. You can practically ignore a DRK half the time and they take care of themselves.

I think every dungeon pull should be wall to wall the instant you see that either yourself or your healer is synced/geared to ilvl OR the healer is a WHM (holy is busted). If not its a toss up. There are a few exceptions though:

-Holminster switch. You need to inspect your healer here because a lot of people walk into this instance not in scaevan and that second pull is actually scary for some healers because many dont get their big tools until 74 and they probably used most of their stuff on the first pull. This is also why ravel probably feels so easy though- healers generally have all their stuff at 74.

-Il mheg last superpull with the horse. This pull can be awful if the healer or tank is in bad gear or the healer is 73.

-Gulg megapull. Speaks for itself, but you should have a judge of your healer on the second one if this is possible or not. If its a WHM I'd just go for it anyways.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

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You're right, TBN actually is much better this time around compared to what it was in sb. Different game changer. I keep looking at it as what it was before they updated it and made it better.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

You have to be joking. PLD and GNB have some of the weakest self cooldowns in the game. Sure Camouflage and sheltron are great with trash but...Compared to TBN? lol nope.

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When it comes to trash specifically, I'm going to disagree on this one. (which is what this thread is about)

Problem I'm seeing with Blackest Knight compared to Camouflage now that I'm leveling up dark knight is that once that shield breaks, you have no defenses. Not only that but it only lasts for 7 seconds (and usually breaks before that) meaning you have to burn off another cooldown once the shield breaks. Camouflage on the other hand isn't the best mitigator, but does last for 20 seconds and provides a defensive ability that entire time.

So on large pulls, I've always felt like gun breaker has a better suite of cool downs than dark knight. That's not to say that blackest knight is bad... just I feel like camouflage is better on large pulls.

Yes, forget about Heart of Stone.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Oddly, Holminster switch seems to be the most dangerous, probably because it's before you get back / improve your mitigation and healers get their newer healing tools. The Bears there serve as good indicators of how big your pull to should be, either killing first then pulling the rest, or using them as the stop gap for a two pack.

HS is completely doable in wall to wall, though it does seem far more stressful than the rest of them, outside the two potential mega pulls in Mt. Gulg, but if you're going for those, you probably aren't pugging.

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It's just the bears, the rams, and the "Wannabe FFXI Manticore"s that make the pulls a choir. The little mobs are no problem. In fact if it were just them, wall to wall would be less stressful.

Ran as SCH, went back to Holminster Switch, my memory confirmed that prior to first boss should be a 2-3 if wall to wall. The 3 packs will be quite stressing. However Holm S is better for me compared to the likes to Doma Castle.

As per other ShB lvling dungeons, Dohn Mheg is where Recitation makes things easier and hard part after 2nd boss; Malikah Well have only an issue where they want to kill 2 revive golems in a go or DPS one pack before they revive; Mt Gulg also mega packs after second boss, that is only the time I am forced to use Dissipation.... sometimes. Qitana Ravel I have no good memory of it due to I only done it once for MSQ and never able to queued up in DF.

In any case, 5.1 will give tanks another okay-ish mitigation in the form of Reprisal changes, that ability is now Rampart v0.5. (10% dmg reduction to all surrounding enemies.... for 10s?) 30% mitigation skill can last another 1-2 AA too. If mobs HP and damage has not been adjusted more, then w2w pulls are more viable.

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Originally Posted by wereotter

When it comes to trash specifically, I'm going to disagree on this one. (which is what this thread is about)

Problem I'm seeing with Blackest Knight compared to Camouflage now that I'm leveling up dark knight is that once that shield breaks, you have no defenses. Not only that but it only lasts for 7 seconds (and usually breaks before that) meaning you have to burn off another cooldown once the shield breaks. Camouflage on the other hand isn't the best mitigator, but does last for 20 seconds and provides a defensive ability that entire time.

So on large pulls, I've always felt like gun breaker has a better suite of cool downs than dark knight. That's not to say that blackest knight is bad... just I feel like camouflage is better on large pulls.

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Think about it in terms of eHP (Effective HP), not in terms of buff length.

TBN is a flat 25% shield, meaning in the 3-5 seconds it takes to break you take ZERO damage. Meanwhile, Camouflage might seem good but in reality its likely going to take those full 20 seconds to make up the same value...and even then, after 20 seconds many things would have died, thus reducing the incoming damage. This is why TBN is better..

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

You're right, TBN actually is much better this time around compared to what it was in sb. Different game changer. I keep looking at it as what it was before they updated it and made it better.

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I mean youre still wrong, in Stormblood TBN was just as broken in dungeons allowing you to become an unstoppable aoe monster of constant health regeneration.

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Originally Posted by VenKitsune

Think about it in terms of eHP (Effective HP), not in terms of buff length.

TBN is a flat 25% shield, meaning in the 3-5 seconds it takes to break you take ZERO damage. Meanwhile, Camouflage might seem good but in reality its likely going to take those full 20 seconds to make up the same value...and even then, after 20 seconds many things would have died, thus reducing the incoming damage. This is why TBN is better..

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I’m looking at it, and thinking more about stress on the healer. One or two GCDs of taking zero damage them right back to taking full damage means that time after it falls off is harder than 20 seconds of taking reduced damage.

Though I should say it’s probably more fair to compare TBN to Heart of Stone and Camouflage to Dark Mind in which case TBN is better than Heart of Stone and Camouflage better than Dark Mind when it comes to large pulls.

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Originally Posted by ReiMakoto

I mean youre still wrong, in Stormblood TBN was just as broken in dungeons allowing you to become an unstoppable aoe monster of constant health regeneration.

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I must not have played DRK enough at that time to really notice it. I was mostly WAR during sb, so that might be why it seemed not as broken or great as I had thought it was.

The biggest consideration for me is the healer, and the healer lvl, not the tank. I'm a tank main, and I took all 4 tanks to 80 before touching healers this expansion. I now have WHM to 80 and AST to 78. The biggest thing I can tell you is this: The healers are drastically different in terms of their abilities and tools at different levels.

Take WHM for instance, from lvl 71 to 80, they really only get one ability (at lvl 80) that helps them with single target healing. At lvl 70, they already have nearly every oGCD and instant cast single target heal in their arsenal. (72 DPS skills, 74 DPS skill, 76 AoE healing skill, 78 small Asylum buff, 80 temperance)

Then look at AST. From 71 to 80, they get some HIGHLY useful off GCD single target healing abilities. (72 DPS skills, 74 oGCD heal with a shield added too, 76 AoE healing tool, 78 additional oGCD single target heal stack, 80 strong CD. The skill picked up at 74 is massive, and I can tell you that AST feels SOOOOOO much better once you hit 74. The worst experience I had was doing Don Meg at 73 and the tank dying during the one double pull with the horse near the end. I popped everything I had, and once Lightspeed wore off, all I had were hard casts of benefic 2 and the regen from aspected benefic and it wasn't enough. That same pull once I hit 74 was a joke simply because of Celestial Intersection.

Pay attention to your healers and their levels, sometimes all it takes is one ability to make a big difference.

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Originally Posted by Elkanah

With a PLD using hallowed ground, plus their normal CD's and clemency (if in immediate danger depending on player), anything can practically be pulled after level 60 for the job. With the right players, you can do what would normally be considered impossible to some. High dps can skip phases quicker in endgame and non related endgame content. So I'm not really seeing the issue with it. Some people are just bad at pulling and not knowing their go-to and strength of the team or their fellow fc members. That's the whole point of learning your job and the jobs around you (or the people you play with). Isn't that why we read our tool tips? Isn't that why we play to learn our job? (Some of us at least)? The difference between players who play to enjoy but also to learn? Now, a lot of folks aren't gonna be able to do that. And that's understandable. Not everyone is gonna pick it up and think or know how to run some content better than others, or it may take people longer. It's a learning experience. But that's the key difference between people trying, people who learned and know how to, and people who just want to play the game cause "you don't pay my sub".

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My point was more the fact that 4 man content is way too easy for everyone.. there isn’t any 4 man content in the game that offers a decent challenge to medium skilled players even.

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

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With power creep it's hard to create mid-core content. Eureka was the best we got in that regards.
The only thing keeping leveling dungeons from being completely steamrolled is the level sync.

If your group is decently geared (e.g. augmented scaevan), the bigger the better. The main issue.comes from people who come in stupidly undergeared, like the AST i had in Mt. Gulg with a Byakko Weapon and a mish mash of level 70 gear.

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

My point was more the fact that 4 man content is way too easy for everyone.. there isn’t any 4 man content in the game that offers a decent challenge to medium skilled players even.

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Man, I've been saying that since 2.0 lol. Squeenix plays the theme park method, which is nice, but there's never going to be a medium challenge. It's either extreme/savage or normal mode. Squeenix doesn't have an mid-core type of content, and most likely might not ever (and if I'm wrong, I'd be happy I was).

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

I think the fact that this question exists just shows how flawed the 4 man content is.. full pulling every mob in a dungeon shouldn’t even be possible. That should be suicide.

They really need a difficulty level for content that is between the face roll of dungeons now and savage raiding.. how does it go from really easy to really hard with almost nothing in between in the game? This seems like it should be priority one content add for the largest number of players who run out of stuff to do.

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Is it flawed? WoW and GW2 is the only other MMO's I play, and big pulls and sometimes full dungeon pulls are a thing even in those games. Less in GW2 just because GW2's combat system is unique. WoW has plenty of dungeons where you can just pull the entire thing and roflstomp it. I know oother games having it doesn't make it any better, but I think its harder then people think to make a medium tier because of how subjective it is.

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Originally Posted by Reinfeld

Bigger is better

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Pull wall to wall til the sea swallows all.

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Originally Posted by John_Milter

Is it flawed? WoW and GW2 is the only other MMO's I play, and big pulls and sometimes full dungeon pulls are a thing even in those games. Less in GW2 just because GW2's combat system is unique. WoW has plenty of dungeons where you can just pull the entire thing and roflstomp it. I know oother games having it doesn't make it any better, but I think its harder then people think to make a medium tier because of how subjective it is.

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I haven’t played WoW in a while now but when I was huge pulls in end game lvl mythic dungeons wasn’t a thing.. there was a oh shit we need to be careful or we will die feeling in the hardest single group content... maybe that’s changed now?

The hardest end game dungeons for single group in FFXIV are comparatively way way easier and I would love to see a “mythic” style option for 4 man dungeons in this game added... have you ever while playing FFxiv, even once, thought to yourself “wow this is a really hard dungeon to clear?” Or “I’m not sure if this group can get through this?” In any 4 man content max lvl or otherwise?

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Originally Posted by Dadbod

I haven’t played WoW in a while now but when I was huge pulls in end game lvl mythic dungeons wasn’t a thing.. there was a oh shit we need to be careful or we will die feeling in the hardest single group content... maybe that’s changed now?

The hardest end game dungeons for single group in FFXIV are comparatively way way easier and I would love to see a “mythic” style option for 4 man dungeons in this game added... have you ever while playing FFxiv, even once, thought to yourself “wow this is a really hard dungeon to clear?” Or “I’m not sure if this group can get through this?” In any 4 man content max lvl or otherwise?

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I agree that mythics are different from the rest of WoW's dungeons but I'd disagree that FF14 even has anything that's suppose comparable to the mythic dungeons. WoW leveling though is extremely easy, and you can probably pull as much as you'd like and as long as your group is competent you'll come out fine. For MOST of WoW its not at all any harder then FF14. Theres also a huge amount of the WoW community who don't even do the mythic dungeons though which I think is a shame.

I'd love to see a mythic dungeon type of thing in FF14, but I don't think its Flawed because as far as I know, FF14's story is what propels people forward. Most people, even the big streamers in WoW almost unanimously agree that WoW's strongpoint isn't story, and not a lot of people really care about it, probably the biggest reason leveling in WoW sucks compared to FF14. I would really like to see either a mythic level dungeon system or a GW2 Fractals type of system.

Each group has their own optimal pull size. With the way AoEs work in this game that size boils down to as much as you can pull without dying or stopping at a wall.

I lean towards going big on the first pull. If you wipe you lose 30 seconds to a minute. If you pull it off you can continue the pace. The problem with small pulls is that there is no way to figure out if your healer can handle more.

For a set group, you should already know what you can handle.

The two pulls I've seen people consistently struggle with is Qitana Ravel megapull and the Mt. Gulg insane pull. Very few people actually try the latter but after the second boss, you can grab everything all the way to where you'll fight the giant mini "boss". That boss does ridiculous amounts of damage though, plus you have AoEs going out all over the place. It's a chaotic mess but kudos if you manage it.

That above pull is the only one I warn/ask healers about if I even bother attempting it. Everything else? Pull to the wall. Even with i400 back when ShB launched, I was doing big pulls by the end of Dohn Meng. They really don't hit that hard, though Astro in 5.0 really couldn't handle some of them well.

Never have I not pulled wall to wall in any of the new dungeons with all 4 tanks and never did I die. Although, I did all of the levelling in a pre-formed party of 4 and I'd hardly trust any roulette player to be able to keep up with it. Point is: It is very much possible and frankly more enjoyable than single-pulling.

i usually pull two packs at a time and thats about it. i'm not running these dungeons to prove i have a big epeen or anything. so the less stress i put on myself and my healer the better.

if DPS don't like it well they can freely leave and go back into that DPS queue ... GG

So you are admitting to intentionally slowing down a run in order to grief their time? That's.. innovative. But you do you and everybody else does it in half the time.

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

So you are admitting to intentionally slowing down a run in order to grief their time? That's.. innovative. But you do you and everybody else does it in half the time.

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not sure if this is a reply to me since their was no quote but i'm gonna take it as such

you sign up for a dungeon you are at the mercy of the tank and how they pull, don't like it leave and queue up again. pulling safe is not griefing you need to look up that word up in terms of MMO. just because you don't like the way the tank pulls doesn't mean they are griefing.

it’s wall to wall pulls for me as a tank and healer. I love testing the limit. I found out that if your gear is at the requirement you can manage wall to wall pulls. When new dungeons come out I usually pull all. Being under geared, play it right and anyone can do wall to wall pulls.

When I play healer and if I pull more adds for you don’t get offended. I pull them because I can manage them for you. I will keep you alive just hold them there for me.

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

pulling safe is not griefing you need to look up that word up in terms of MMO. just because you don't like the way the tank pulls doesn't mean they are griefing.

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Intentionally slowing down a run? Yeah, think what you want - that's griefplay. I bet you are one of those tanks that takes off stance if someone else dares to take an extra mob to "show them" (and feel like you achieved something).

But what else do I expect from tanxiety gcbtw?

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

Intentionally slowing down a run? Yeah, think what you want - that's griefplay. I bet you are one of those tanks that takes off stance if someone else dares to take an extra mob to "show them" (and feel like you achieved something).

But what else do I expect from tanxiety gcbtw?

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you need to look up the term griefing.

so because i don't pull wall to wall that's griefing? ... seems legit!

feel free to report me if you are ever in my roulette with me as a tank, i'm sure SE's support would love a good laugh ... i can see the report already

"dear sir or madam or whoever it may concern, I was in a roulette with a notorious griefer named Matic Zanleer. this scoundrel committed horrible, UNSPEAKABLE atrocities against Eorzea. MY roulette in Mt Gulg usually take 13-15 minutes (i have timed the last 100 runs i have made) and this this terrorist took 20 minutes! how dare he? how dare he not try and pull wall to wall like many tanks do. how dare he not listen to my "sighs" and " .... " and "you can pull faster" advice. horrible gamer 10/10 would not group with again. please ban him from not only this MMO but any future Final Fantasy MMO"

Sorry friend, but I believe that was a lot funnier in your head, no?

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Originally Posted by Vulcann

feel free to report me if you are ever in my roulette with me as a tank, i'm sure SE's support would love a good laugh ... i can see the report already

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Problem is, since "difference in playstyle" is a valid reason to make a report moot, you'll likely to have the same kind of answer if you report that the DPS let you solo mobs or healer don't heal you because they think you're too slow.

So, basically, if the whole group won't agree on a strat, they'll waste everybody's time.

And, remember that the stress you put on your healer is not yours to decide, but the healer's. So if they ask you to pull more, you're not doing them any "favor" by not doing so.

Is standing at the entrance and never pulling an option?

Optimal pull size is wall to wall. The only person that should be the factor is the healer. If they cant handle it then it doesnt happen. I dont understand the whole tanks determine if they can handle it or if they are not comfortable bs esp 70+. You pull, do aoe, and pop CDs. 3, 6, 8, or all the mobs... nothing you do is different. Oh a DPS takes aggro on 1 mob then the DPS needs the pull that 1 mob into the pack that you're spamming AOEs on. Ppl think wall to wall doesn't speed up runs by alot when in fact you save so much time doing so. Example. Holmister Switch I ran in 17m. I was a tank and had a good healer and great dps. Same dungeon with a tank that only did single packs took like 25-30 mins and as I playing healer that time I was bored out of my mind spamming 1 button..