Job stone requirement for duties 30 and up?

I got King Mog for Trial Roulette today and had a lvl 56 conjurer in the party... is there no way to make lvl 30+ duties require the presence of a job stone?

Hopefully when SE start their workaround the ilvl requirements for dgns, they'll think of locking all lvl 30+ synced duties to a player does not have a job stone equipped.

Maybe level 35/40. Don't lock it at 30. The lvl 30 job quests level sync to about level 34, and sme players may need to do that. But I do agree 50+ at the latest should have it completed by now.

Simply don't allow the lvl 30 MSQ to be completed till you have done your job quest. Doing the job quest auto applies the stone and you can no longer remove it.

For alts, change all gear level 35+ (maybe 40+) so it requires a job and no longer allows class. Example, remove ARC and only leave BRD. It's weird that I level 440 gear will allow Archer.

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Originally Posted by Krojack

Simply don't allow the lvl 30 MSQ to be completed till you have done your job quest. Doing the job quest auto applies the stone and you can no longer remove it.

For alts, change all gear level 35+ (maybe 40+) so it requires a job and no longer allows class. Example, remove ARC and only leave BRD. It's weird that I level 440 gear will allow Archer.

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I'm sure its the way the game mechanics are set up. After all, we still are earning ARCHER exp, not BARD exp. As such, if they remove ARC, the gear is not usable property.
But I still disagree w/ setting it to 30. 35/40, maybe. People quickly outlevel the level 30 MSQ, and you already have to progres through the MSQ to even unlock the class quest for the stone.

It would be an ideal situation for pretty much most of us at this point when it comes to having job stone requirements at 30+.

But I'd realistically put the job stone requirement for all duties after Praetorium.

[Those who still want to use classes for challenge could probably do so when fully premade. And ONLY fully premade].

Technically, the official SE site still has wording that says

"Classes are suited to those who desire versatility, as they allow the use of actions that belong to other disciplines. In contrast, jobs grant access to exclusive actions and are ideal for situations that demand well-defined roles. Which fighting style you adopt is entirely up to you"

I feel like SE deep down is still clinging to this lost remnant of a system. Once upon a time, the above quote may have been true (like in 1.x), but now classes genuinely serve no purpose beyond being infant-mode for jobs. I agree that with the way the game is designed now, there's no reason not to require having the job crystal at a certain point.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Technically, the official SE site still has wording that says

"Classes are suited to those who desire versatility, as they allow the use of actions that belong to other disciplines. In contrast, jobs grant access to exclusive actions and are ideal for situations that demand well-defined roles. Which fighting style you adopt is entirely up to you"

I feel like SE deep down is still clinging to this lost remnant of a system. Once upon a time, the above quote may have been true (like in 1.x), but now classes genuinely serve no purpose beyond being infant-mode for jobs. I agree that with the way the game is designed now, there's no reason not to require having the job crystal at a certain point.

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That's from the ARR website, which I'm pretty sure hasn't been updated in years. Yoshi-P and the development team have expressed their desire to get rid of classes altogether at various points, and the fact that no new classes have been introduced since ARR should be pretty telling of that desire; it's just that removing them is probably rather tricky given FFXIV's infamous spaghetti code and oddities like SMN and SCH sharing a base class. A job crystal requirement would definitely be a good idea, though, and I've seen it suggested before; it's probably just tricky to implement thanks to its connections to the infamously wonky inventory system.

Personally, I wonder at whether it would just be easier to eliminate the job stones instead, and directly force classes to upgrade at 30. All distinction and differentiation is effectively gone already. No player will notice any difference. Job quest requirements can still be a thing. Just, remove the need to have the stone equipped.

Although, I suppose this idea falls apart with SMN/SCH. Still, I think they're slowly working towards breaking that link each expansion. By 6.0 or 7.0, I'd predict they will have effectively resolved this particular issue.

Make it level 35 and up requires job stone just to counter weird situations and I support this 100%. There is absolutely no excuse to be a regular class above 35.

I think there should be a little wiggle room, since some people hit 30 during Haukke Manor. But I did make a topic similar to this a while back and agree that it's silly to have people not having their Soul Crystals equipped after a certain point.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Personally, I wonder at whether it would just be easier to eliminate the job stones instead, and directly force classes to upgrade at 30. All distinction and differentiation is effectively gone already. No player will notice any difference. Job quest requirements can still be a thing. Just, remove the need to have the stone equipped.

Although, I suppose this idea falls apart with SMN/SCH. Still, I think they're slowly working towards breaking that link each expansion. By 6.0 or 7.0, I'd predict they will have effectively resolved this particular issue.

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Having those 2 together is really messing things up.
I think the whole class thing needs to be thrown away honestly, but then they have to think about how they wanna deal with the class quests/lore.

I guess an alternative would have them pop up that they need to get their job stones to continue once they hit 30.
The whole system is very archaic and messy because the class thing is kinda useless.
We should just start off as a Bard or whatever and be done with it.
SMN/SCH is the only thing keeping us from really shelving this whole thing.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Having those 2 together is really messing things up.
I think the whole class thing needs to be thrown away honestly, but then they have to think about how they wanna deal with the class quests/lore.

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It's kind of a tough thing to do. I'd suggest "Once you do the Job Quest, your Soul Crystal is permanently equipped."

But then you have to worry about Summoner and Scholar...

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

It's kind of a tough thing to do. I'd suggest "Once you do the Job Quest, your Soul Crystal is permanently equipped."

But then you have to worry about Summoner and Scholar...

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Yeah, I'm trying to think of a way they could fix this simply, but I can't.
I was going to say at 30, let them just take both stones but from there on
you have to split your EXP from SCH/SMN after you're done with the ACN quests.
You get a 2 for 1, but you're on your own post that.
The con is, you lose the free ride of leveling both at once so that will upset people
because we're all use to it now. Thank Goddness they won't bother with this anymore though!

I think they're edging closer to splitting SMN/SCH with every expansion anyway. If you open up SCH's actions/traits, you can see almost none of them are shared with ACN. They've made them all distinct SCH skills. Eventually, yes, the "free ride" will be gone. But, for the best.

As for class/lore stuff, wouldn't be any different. I mean, I guess the real trouble is the fact that the soul stones are canonically featured in the quests, so can't really just erase those. But, it could still just be a cosmetic thing we whip out for the quests as needed (referring specifically to cutscenes and all, effectively making them Key Items more than anything). Other than that, they could just hide the soul stones altogether, and have the class/job quest progression exactly like it is now.

Actually, maybe they could do that, and it wouldn't actually affect the SMN/SCH problem. Just literally hide the stones from equipment, and make them permanent once the job quests for them are cleared. You'd only really have to flag the SMN/SCH starting quests to be available to the opposite job, for the case of someone starting one and upgrading, but then wanting to start the other.

Idk. There's probably some weird means to make it automatic/permanent. But also, very likely they're holding back on pushing that implementation until they've split SMN/SCH to make life easy.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Technically, the official SE site still has wording that says

"Classes are suited to those who desire versatility, as they allow the use of actions that belong to other disciplines. In contrast, jobs grant access to exclusive actions and are ideal for situations that demand well-defined roles. Which fighting style you adopt is entirely up to you"

I feel like SE deep down is still clinging to this lost remnant of a system. Once upon a time, the above quote may have been true (like in 1.x), but now classes genuinely serve no purpose beyond being infant-mode for jobs. I agree that with the way the game is designed now, there's no reason not to require having the job crystal at a certain point.

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Exactly this ^

I think the SMN/SCH thing is what is holding them up, but if you go and look at it now... SCH only share ONE ability with the ACN class, Resurrection. They've already made Job versions of the other ACN skills for the SCH job specifically.

Once they untether SCH from ACN completely, I think they'll actually be able to either remove classes, or just have it be like a "graduation" or something for the rest of the ARR jobs. Gladiator BECOMES paladin at 30 for example. Ideally GLD would cap exp at 30 and you'd have to complete the PLD unlock quest to continue leveling.

Last week I saw a gladiator in Eden. It did not go well.

Anything past 4-player Titan should require a job stone. Hell, they could even work it into the Company of Heroes and their string of "tests" to see if you're worthy of their advice.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

Technically, the official SE site still has wording that says

"Classes are suited to those who desire versatility, as they allow the use of actions that belong to other disciplines. In contrast, jobs grant access to exclusive actions and are ideal for situations that demand well-defined roles. Which fighting style you adopt is entirely up to you"

I feel like SE deep down is still clinging to this lost remnant of a system. Once upon a time, the above quote may have been true (like in 1.x), but now classes genuinely serve no purpose beyond being infant-mode for jobs. I agree that with the way the game is designed now, there's no reason not to require having the job crystal at a certain point.

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This same page also lists Ninja and Rogue as new jobs. It was last updated in like 2014 as it still alludes to classes being versatile due to cross class skills.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Yeah, I'm trying to think of a way they could fix this simply, but I can't.

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That's only because you're trying to "fix" more than what's broken. Using a base class past 30 in simple solo content isn't particularly helpful, but nor is it a problem. If someone wants to play that way, there's no reason for them not to be able to, so long as they switch to a job for instanced party content. And there it's very easy to fix. Duties already require a specific mix of roles for party matching. Just make that mix only allow jobs in duties above 30 (or maybe from 35 up if they want to allow some leeway for Brayflox).