Was red mage damage nerfed???

I noticed that lately raid teams have been struggling really badly to beat the dps race and decided to test something out, to my horror it looks like my damage has taken a really big hit and I'm not doing anywhere near as well as I was before even with food buff. Were we nerfed without notice? I'm now concerned that my job will be tossed aside as being one of the worst damage dealing jobs out there.

Nerfed how? In comparison to Stormblood, or the recent patch update. And what specifically feels weaker?

From what I've seen, Red Mage is basically the same job as it was prior to 5.0, just with added AoE spells and Scorch for an extra step on your main combo. The only adjustments made were the MP costs because RDM could struggle to maintain it in longer fights.

Nothing was changed as far as I know. Red Mage was never a really big damage dealer due to it's healing and rezzing capabilities.

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

Nothing was changed as far as I know. Red Mage was never a really big damage dealer due to it's healing and rezzing capabilities.

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The job guide shows very little "revision"s and no major potency changes that I can see.

I can't crunch numbers since we have no means of parsing data but it does look like I'm doing way worse than before and that's in like the past week before the patch. I'm noticing other players in 4-man dungeons are doing way more damage than I am which is a bit of a concern to me as I feel like I've been made much weaker and I'm pretty sure that I'm doing less than before. Just wanted to know if SE maybe lowered our potency or something without telling us.

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Originally Posted by geekgirl101

I can't crunch numbers since we have no means of parsing data but it does look like I'm doing way worse than before and that's in like the past week before the patch. I'm noticing other players in 4-man dungeons are doing way more damage than I am which is a bit of a concern to me as I feel like I've been made much weaker and I'm pretty sure that I'm doing less than before. Just wanted to know if SE maybe lowered our potency or something without telling us.

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It is not that they lowered your potency. It is that they buffed the potency of the majority of other classes so everyone else around you is doing better damage. Except for NIN, which saw its damage drop like a rock when Dripping Blades got removed.

It's not that RDM got nerf. It's RDM literally got nothing and no buff in ShB. I can feel my dungeon run with RDM is slower than BRD. Which are the alts I wanted to level up, but using RDM with Trust is so much worse than with BRD that made me quit RDM for now.

Comparing RDM with BLM changes are like peasant and royalty difference. Though BLM didn't have much change to it's gameplay, the entire focus of QoL change is so on point that it ended up being a buff to BLM. The reason you feel RDM got weaker is because everyone around got better.

Yeah, RDM got a pretty Scorch, except it's added at the end of your long melee combo that you sometimes can't finish due to boss mechanic. I was expecting the melee combo to be improved in ShB, yet I'm full of disappointment to this job even though I loved RDM to death in SB.

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Originally Posted by Miziliti

It's not that RDM got nerf. It's RDM literally got nothing and no buff in ShB. I can feel my dungeon run with RDM is slower than BRD. Which are the alts I wanted to level up, but using RDM with Trust is so much worse than with BRD that made me quit RDM for now.

Comparing RDM with BLM changes are like peasant and royalty difference. Though BLM didn't have much change to it's gameplay, the entire focus of QoL change is so on point that it ended up being a buff to BLM. The reason you feel RDM got weaker is because everyone around got better.

Yeah, RDM got a pretty Scorch, except it's added at the end of your long melee combo that you sometimes can't finish due to boss mechanic. I was expecting the melee combo to be improved in ShB, yet I'm full of disappointment to this job even though I loved RDM to death in SB.

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RDM does 400 dps lower then bard.

RDM is no where near as. As as you make out :p

Yes everyone else was buffed,
Stormblood pretty much almost every dps had seen multiple changes before Red Mage finally got something.
Shadowbringers could be going same route with exception of they at least lowered mana cost which was very nice

If at all it should be brought much closer to Bard in terms of dmg

Redmage pretty much had no potency buffs or changes.
They pretty much buffed the other classes soooo redmage is left behind.

If you look at logs it’s not as bad as it seems realistically.

RDM is 400-800 dps behind the middle pack dpsers so it’s not horrific but yeah RDM could use some small buffs

Redmage and summoner are so closes for a really big difference of gameplay,
But Yes Redmage and summoner need a slight dps increase, but summoner need more .

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Originally Posted by remiff

Redmage and summoner are so closes for a really big difference of gameplay,
But Yes Redmage and summoner need a slight dps increase, but summoner need more .

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I agree but I disagree to the concept.

The idea of balancing based on difficulty on top of everything else would make this game so unbalanced it’d become unrealistic.

Summoner does need to do more dps then red mage however as RDM does have instant Rez’s on hand espically after the mana buffs

Also mobility differences do need to be accounted for as RDM will have the least resistance getting high percentiles around mechanics.

It should be BLM > summoner > red mage. As BLM brings no utility and only pdps summoner has more dps utility then RDM which levels out with RDM rezzing capabilities

I don’t think we need more 1k dps differences though, I think that could be tightened up abit for sure. So I don’t think things really need to be widened just both need to me moved closer to BLM with summoner being between them as it’s lower mobility makes mechanics more punishing on the jobs dps

So yeah i think for example BLM was on 14k, summoner should be 13.2k and RDM at 12.7k dps this would be a good base line realistically.

This will keep the original balance. But without jobs just completely outclassing each other.

I do also believe 5.1 patch will make summoner easier to play with playstyle adjustments. So we will have to see what happens overall.

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Originally Posted by remiff

Redmage and summoner are so closes for a really big difference of gameplay,
But Yes Redmage and summoner need a slight dps increase, but summoner need more .

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I feel they made SMN/RDM alike dps-wise because both job are starting to have very similar utility. Both can raise, Both have a party buff, RDM has a cure and SMN has Everlasting Flight and Physik (really they have no reason to make physic scale on MND and EF scale on INT).

Personally, I feel EF is just a very weird skill: it "fits" the Phoenix theme, but adds nothing to the job. I don't feel like any SMN will ever delay their Demi-Phoenix window to make use of the HoT. If it holds SMN's DPS back because of that utility, I'd say either erase EF or make Physik a usable skill..

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Originally Posted by Drayos

/snip

Summoner does need to do more dps then red mage however as RDM does have instant Rez’s on hand espically after the mana buffs

Also mobility differences do need to be accounted for as RDM will have the least resistance getting high percentiles around mechanics.

It should be BLM > summoner > red mage. As BLM brings no utility and only pdps summoner has more dps utility then RDM which levels out with RDM rezzing capabilities

/snip

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SMN still have good mobility and can raise too. I feel people gives Raise ability way too much importance for its worth. Been RDM-main since it's release and I almost never need to use it more than once every 60 sec *(except some content like Eureka or Special Fate with a lot of lag) – at which point its value compared to swiftcasted raises decreases quickly enough. If Dualcast raise is the only reason why RDM DPS is so low, then I would rather see a exception on dualcast against Verraise and see him buffed because RDM role is to deal damage (not just be a safety net).

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Originally Posted by Ardox

I feel they made SMN/RDM alike dps-wise because both job are starting to have very similar utility. Both can raise, Both have a party buff, RDM has a cure and SMN has Everlasting Flight and Physik (really they have no reason to make physic scale on MND and EF scale on INT).

Personally, I feel EF is just a very weird skill: it "fits" the Phoenix theme, but adds nothing to the job. I don't feel like any SMN will ever delay their Demi-Phoenix window to make use of the HoT. If it holds SMN's DPS back because of that utility, I'd say either erase EF or make Physik a usable skill..



SMN still have good mobility and can raise too. I feel people gives Raise ability way too much importance for its worth. Been RDM-main since it's release and I almost never need to use it more than once every 60 sec *(except some content like Eureka or Special Fate with a lot of lag) – at which point its value compared to swiftcasted raises decreases quickly enough. If Dualcast raise is the only reason why RDM DPS is so low, then I would rather see a exception on dualcast against Verraise and see him buffed because RDM role is to deal damage (not just be a safety net).

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while yes, but they are the reasons its below Summoner, not why its DPS is low tbh.

Its a combination, but difficulty difference in gameplay isnt why Summoner is above RDM in DPS

and no in SHB as far as i know, movement hits Summoner DPS much harder now.

tbh i agree tho, i'd like to see dualcast rezz gone. and see some Interesting changes to its kit to fit a DPS Theme. Maybe put some utility elsewhere

I personally think RDM needs a personal DPS buff.

Like sure the res utility is useful but I don't think it should come at the cost of our personal DPS. (or at least not that much.)

I understand that classes with more utility have less dps but I don't like that RDM is "balanced" around progression & farm/speed clears.
I want to be useful in both types of parties & if a farming party would take me I suddenly lack DPS for nonexistent utility.

I see...ugh. :( Really don't wanna hang up my RDM garments but if it's not buffed soon I may have to look at alternative jobs as it's doing horrible in savage now.

Smn raise is a thing though...
People have to stop using the mindset of Red Mage's "utility" of Verraise is reason it should be lower dmg.
Not saying they should be on par with smn but much closer of a gap.
Perhaps smn is punished for movement now but that has not been the case past expansions were it was the most mobile out of all the casters..
The caster jobs should not be overly far apart except also not overly close to jobs that have no utility like blm

All just my opinion of course which we are all allowed to :)

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Originally Posted by Maero

Smn raise is a thing though...
People have to stop using the mindset of Red Mage's "utility" of Verraise is reason it should be lower dmg.
Not saying they should be on par with smn but much closer of a gap.
Perhaps smn is punished for movement now but that has not been the case past expansions were it was the most mobile out of all the casters..
The caster jobs should not be overly far apart except also not overly close to jobs that have no utility like blm

All just my opinion of course which we are all allowed to :)

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given nothing was said on em in the live letter, i wouldnt be suprised if they remain exactly as they are realistically.

They have talked about the biggest issues, I wouldn't take it as a sign towards or against adjustment..

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Originally Posted by Maero

Smn raise is a thing though...
People have to stop using the mindset of Red Mage's "utility" of Verraise is reason it should be lower dmg.
Not saying they should be on par with smn but much closer of a gap.
Perhaps smn is punished for movement now but that has not been the case past expansions were it was the most mobile out of all the casters..
The caster jobs should not be overly far apart except also not overly close to jobs that have no utility like blm

All just my opinion of course which we are all allowed to :)

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Realistically all DPS jobs should be capable of doing the around the same figures, there should be no this job is way better than this job and is the new meta, it should be up to the playstyle of the player to pick which job they enjoy playing more. RDM does not need to do lower damage, even more so just because they can fast res because every time they res someone they're losing personal DPS. Even when I'm not constantly ressing people we rarely pass enrage and I'm told it's because of low DPS and I'm the first person they kick out, so I can only assume they are somehow parsing my DPS or are removing me in the knowledge that RDM DPS is the lowest.

Rdm did not get a buff comparatively to a lot of other classes. It does feel lacking. SE has so many problems with Nin and Smn rotations and Sam issues that it's what they are discussing at the moment. Overall the rotation on rdm feels good and it has a lot to offer so if they'd bring dps up a bit I think it'd feel good. Overall, next to dancer and nin it's the low man on the dps totem pole. I honestly do hope you guys get a buff.

Smn is not that mobile comparatively. Smn heal is not the same as vercure either. We really have no choice about when to use it. You just have to hope your tight rotation lines up with when people need to be healed, otherwise it's a waste. It feels like a novelty at best, a way to differentiate it from Bahamut. Sure, it's utility, but unpredictable at best and is no way comparable to the usefulness of Vercure. There's a reason why when the healer goes down in a dungeon, I rez the healer (Smn) and my husband cures the tank on RDM.

Smn rez is dependent on a couple of factor being using it every 60 secs with Swiftcast for minimal dps loss. The only time I use it outside of swiftcast is when a second healer goes down, I can see primary healer is overtaxed, or we are about to go into a dps phase and dps need to come up. Rdm have the advantage of being able to rez without too much dps loss, but then have more of an mp management issue to deal with. It's more of an issue of realizing when it's time to stop rezzing and just leave people down.

From playing it all it really feels like rdm needs to me is a few points of extra potency scattered here and there about its toolkit, just enough to bridge its gap between itself and blm. I'm thinking mainly on veraero and verthunder. Maybe an extra 50 on verholy, verflare and scorch. Mechanically it feels great it just needs a pinch of extra juice.

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Originally Posted by NovaBismarck

Rdm did not get a buff comparatively to a lot of other classes. It does feel lacking. SE has so many problems with Nin and Smn rotations and Sam issues that it's what they are discussing at the moment. Overall the rotation on rdm feels good and it has a lot to offer so if they'd bring dps up a bit I think it'd feel good. Overall, next to dancer and nin it's the low man on the dps totem pole. I honestly do hope you guys get a buff.

Smn is not that mobile comparatively. Smn heal is not the same as vercure either. We really have no choice about when to use it. You just have to hope your tight rotation lines up with when people need to be healed, otherwise it's a waste. It feels like a novelty at best, a way to differentiate it from Bahamut. Sure, it's utility, but unpredictable at best and is no way comparable to the usefulness of Vercure. There's a reason why when the healer goes down in a dungeon, I rez the healer (Smn) and my husband cures the tank on RDM.

Smn rez is dependent on a couple of factor being using it every 60 secs with Swiftcast for minimal dps loss. The only time I use it outside of swiftcast is when a second healer goes down, I can see primary healer is overtaxed, or we are about to go into a dps phase and dps need to come up. Rdm have the advantage of being able to rez without too much dps loss, but then have more of an mp management issue to deal with. It's more of an issue of realizing when it's time to stop rezzing and just leave people down.

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I agree. I've started to do less fast resses in party finder parties these days unless it's a tank or a healer or I can see a healer preparing to swifcast res themselves so I can maintain enough damage output. Usually if a person is ressed during the ShB raids they die again almost instantly to AoE so it's no point in wasting mana or damage output ressing someone who's about to die again, although often I've noticed if a person dies during the ShB raids there's little chance of us beating the enrage timer at the end since every second counts, and if people are parsing DPS based on that fight and I'm showing as the lowest because I've been ressing people throughout the fight then it makes me look bad regardless since they're only paying attention to the numbers. It's time people learned mechanics and stopped relying on others to watch their backs all the time and res them when they fail. I'm not perfect myself and mess up quite a lot even when I'm familiar with the mechanics, but at least I'm trying to learn and not just looking for the next party to carry my sorry behind for me. Still I imagine that even with a flawless run my DPS is nowhere near as matched as it was in SB.

We didn't get nerfed and the mana changes were needed and pleasant.

But unfortunately yes RDM has pretty low dps compared to other classes and we're starting to get stigmatized because of it (I think NIN does more rDPS in savage than we do now which condidering how low their dps is ...... well its sad.......

I really don't wanna have to switch to back to BLM :(

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Originally Posted by Drayos

given nothing was said on em in the live letter, i wouldnt be suprised if they remain exactly as they are realistically.

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You are probably correct.

@geekgirl, dps should do around the same however there is no way jobs with utility should be on par with jobs with no utility that would not be fair at all
We can agree that RM needs a buff in the dmg department because it is kind of sad

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Originally Posted by Dommy-Notatop

We didn't get nerfed and the mana changes were needed and pleasant.

But unfortunately yes RDM has pretty low dps compared to other classes and we're starting to get stigmatized because of it (I think NIN does more rDPS in savage than we do now which condidering how low their dps is ...... well its sad.......

I really don't wanna have to switch to back to BLM :(

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Tbh I’ve been considering trying another job too. Unsure which one to rly try tho,

Dragoon and monks seem vastly overpopulated now tho xD

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Originally Posted by Maero

@geekgirl, dps should do around the same however there is no way jobs with utility should be on par with jobs with no utility that would not be fair at all
We can agree that RM needs a buff in the dmg department because it is kind of sad

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Even if it's not entirely on par with the highest damage jobs it should be doing better than it currently is. In SB according to FFlogs I was doing really well with my damage balanced with the other remaining DPS classes whilst the more stronger ones like BLM and SAM were at the very top. In ShB however it's barely better than the tanks at the bottom of the list, this is how sore it is. I'm choking up putting away my RDM garments because it was an ideal job for me that wasn't too overcomplicated and looking to alternative jobs, but I feel I'm being forced now into pushing for doing top DPS if I want to raid and it's becoming immensely stressful and isn't how I wanted to enjoy the game. I thought SE was against idolizing jobs as meta.