Their heart was in the right place with AST.

Let's be honest about this. The new actual FLOW of the job is better. It feels better to have more cards to throw. You feel more impactful, and being able to throw the cards onto who you want instead of always fishing for AoE balance feels GREAT.

The idea of essentially having an AoE balance on demand every 2 minutes without it eating up your other buffs is awesome, and the idea of wanting to fill out a pool properly by manipulating your draws is a great idea. It really makes you think, and feel good about your choices when you succeed.


The actual issue is the complete lack of Flavor. As I've described it before, it's like going to a Restaurant, the waiter is amazing. Somehow they know exactly when to refill drinks, exactly when to leave, when to chat. Service is spectacular. Oh man, Atmosphere is AMAZING. What a classy and unique dining experience. The company you decided to bring is awesome. You REALLY hit it off, chatting the night away. You really feel a bond. Wow what a wonderful time overall. Except...the food is bad. The food being bad kind of ruins the night a bit, doesn't it? It's like the most important thing for a Restaurant.


The cards just need to go back to giving the buffs they gave before, but keep all the new stuff. Make spire give Dhit now, maybe nerf balance just a tad, and we're GUCCI. Wanting to fish for specific seals may even make you more likely to actually throw out a bole or another buff too. Imagine having an actual reason to make the tanks life easier by hitting him with a defensive cooldown which gives you the last thing you need to set off a sick aoe DPS buff.

You can just make minor arcana increase the effectiveness of your currently drawn card by a little and not override your seals just like it does now.

I find the flow to be worse, I am throwing more useless cards that have no feeling of impact just to get 3 seals for an ability that does not feel like it has an impact unless I also use another ability to just toss out as many cards as I can in a short while in order to have a kinda sorta discernible feeling of something working all while burning my own damage buff just trying to pass all those cards around before the party buff wears out. I also think a lot less when handling the system which leads it overall to just not be engaging. It has lead to frustration when I need that last seal and wind up burning all my redraws and not getting that seal, or only getting melee cards when I have no melee DPS.

Then again I was not one of those people who did nothing but fishing for aoe balance, so if you were one of those who only fished for aoe balance then I probably used a lot more cards then you. Though each card had a role and I could feel the impact. Be it a tank taking less damage then expected thanks to that bole I tossed out, my co-healer getting over 50% mana very fast after they had just been raised, or that BLM who is visibly casting far more faster or that SAM pulling off sooner midares, or seeing a Bard go ham as their procs cascaded.

Though I do have to say, Minor Arcana being stronger then Major Arcana is backwards. There is a reason why something is a Major instead of a Minor because a Major is supposed to have a greater effect then a Minor.

For me Sleeve Draw is what I dislike most. I'm sure it's just a matter of getting gud as they say, but every time it's up I tend to tunnel pretty hard on dealing out cards and not other things. Aside from that I feel it plays pretty well/functions well enough. The flavor and uniqueness is definitely missed when it comes to the cards themselves. The naming of Minor Arcana bothered me a bit as well but I looked into the definitions and it... kind of? makes sense:

Major Arcana: This refers to the first 22 cards of the tarot deck. These cards are usually considered to be the key cards of the deck.

Minor Arcana: The subsequent 56 cards in a tarot deck. These cards provide support and nuances to the 22 cards of the major arcana in a tarot reading.

If the cards providing a seal is what makes them "key cards" then that is what makes them "major". Not the % damage increased number. Just my interpretation.

they try to simplify the AST cards but i think they over simplify it lol

The flow is nice, I'll agree with that. Giving every spell a cast time shorter than 2.5s is a very nice touch and makes the entire job feel a lot better than on 5.0 release.

But man, the impact isn't there. We lost buff extension, a major aspect of the class, and our damage spells are SO weak that Gravity is almost stronger when you obtain it.
And the cards just feel like you're flailing your arms around to encourage your team. They are incredibly short and laughable compared to what they once were, and the seals can be completely ignored.

Using an Arrow on yourself helped you with both damage and healing, and it was amazing. Throwing a 30% mitigation for 55s on your tank felt so much better than anything this class can currently do.
The decision making that surrounded the card system made up for the lack of interesting damage rotation, and even though AST wasn't my favourite healer, I miss this system a lot.


Expansions are supposed to add interesting stuff, not turn a class into a blend of another class and a shadow of its former self.

All I know is I am enjoying AST a hell of a lot more now than I did in late HW and SB. I don't even mind bringing it into lv50 content now that Gravity's level was reduced to 45. I honestly could not stand the previous card mechanic, and 4.0 AST was too OP for my tastes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shawnerz

For me Sleeve Draw is what I dislike most. I'm sure it's just a matter of getting gud as they say, but every time it's up I tend to tunnel pretty hard on dealing out cards and not other things.

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It's not just you. It's actually very unusual to see a mechanic like that, that focuses you on your own rotation, on a healing class. Normally that kind of thing goes to DPS classes that can afford the tunnel vision better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I find the flow to be worse, I am throwing more useless cards that have no feeling of impact just to get 3 seals for an ability that does not feel like it has an impact unless I also use another ability to just toss out as many cards as I can in a short while in order to have a kinda sorta discernible feeling of something working all while burning my own damage buff just trying to pass all those cards around before the party buff wears out. I also think a lot less when handling the system which leads it overall to just not be engaging. It has lead to frustration when I need that last seal and wind up burning all my redraws and not getting that seal, or only getting melee cards when I have no melee DPS.

Then again I was not one of those people who did nothing but fishing for aoe balance, so if you were one of those who only fished for aoe balance then I probably used a lot more cards then you. Though each card had a role and I could feel the impact. Be it a tank taking less damage then expected thanks to that bole I tossed out, my co-healer getting over 50% mana very fast after they had just been raised, or that BLM who is visibly casting far more faster or that SAM pulling off sooner midares, or seeing a Bard go ham as their procs cascaded.

Though I do have to say, Minor Arcana being stronger then Major Arcana is backwards. There is a reason why something is a Major instead of a Minor because a Major is supposed to have a greater effect then a Minor.

---

None of what you described is flow, it's impact that you were looking for and that's not what op was saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DawnSolaria

None of what you described is flow, it's impact that you were looking for and that's not what op was saying.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

Let's be honest about this. The new actual FLOW of the job is better. It feels better to have more cards to throw. You feel more impactful, and being able to throw the cards onto who you want instead of always fishing for AoE balance feels GREAT.

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The OP was talking about having more cards to throw and feeling more impactful instead of just aoe balance fishing. Which I countered on that, because I never tried to fish for balance I was throwing out plenty of cards but the new cards do not feel impactful because they are weak while the old cards never felt that way. So instead I am throwing out more useless cards that lack impact rather then useful cards that do have impact.

So I was talking about the very same thing the OP was talking about.

I also mentioned the whole sleeve draw thing, which is something that heavily impacts the flow of the card system and in a negative way. Since I need to burn a time period where I actually join everyone else is doing more damage in order to throw out cards to make the buff I did throw feel worthwhile ultimately timing out my own increase in damage. While also mentioning the frustration I feel when I do not get the seal I need and only get cards for the opposite range type I have. As well as the lack of thinking with this new system, which was counter to the old system because thinking and planning was part of the flow of the old system as well. The decisions behind what card to spread, whether to royal road it to enhance your next card, or spin the minor arcana for an oGCD Heal or Attack were very important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wawachume

It's not just you. It's actually very unusual to see a mechanic like that, that focuses you on your own rotation, on a healing class. Normally that kind of thing goes to DPS classes that can afford the tunnel vision better.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way.
Better than what it was.
You had to press a million buttons just to get your Divination set up. It took far too long.
Now this SD, at least you're pressing one button to throw the cards out.
What I do is just throw any card that I can and not bother redrawing anything.
It takes too much time trying to get the correct card on everyone when I need to heal.
At least now, it's easier but still tunneling. You have to be really quick about it.

The flow now feels way more clunky/messy than SB astro. Now we just throw usless cards all the time that dont have much, or any, effect. The devs messed this one up bad

I strongly disagree with the new system being more impactful, unless you use 3rd party to check dps numbers, regular players and specially PS4 players like me, have no clue if anything is happening even with divination, with the old system you could notice when a tank was getting less damage, I could see my party casting be fast on party list, crits would pop up with spear and a bard going crazy, a fallen caster would get on its feet with an ewer, and a warrior would be able to finally do skills on big pulls after so much aoeing.

Same with the flow, having to convert every single card to Minor Arcana is tiresome, before you would do it to get value: an instant heal free of MP, which we could really use one, or a mini nuke, on a really undesired card or pre fight draw, it is literally DA.

If someone likes the new system I'm glad for them, but this should have been the 4th healer and not a rework nobody asked for.

I'd say that they had good intentions to try and revamp AST, but they took feedback from people who don't play AST or only 'top' players who fished solely for Balance, to boost FF logs. SB AST was near perfect, if not for totally eclipsing WHM, which is more of a product of SE's insistence on never giving WHM anything. Ever.

Who benefits from playing AST? Certainly not the AST player. AST cards are now all Balance! So, you're always chugging a dps boost to your teammates. You don't control anything anymore, you can't manipulate your buffs, and everything is designed to give your fellow dps players an edge. Regardless of how middling the potency, they'll always receive Balance, and that's all they care about. They also won't know that you might have felt lazy and not fished for seals, so they have a 4% buff instead of a 6% buff, they just know they have Balance. The potency is too low to see a noticeable impact on the short term.

Turning the tide with a super Bole? Extending all buffs with CO, and giving everyone a moment's reprise? How about that Super Balance being extended? Naw... we can't do that anymore, and no favoritism to prevent hurt feelings from bad dps players! Minor Arcana to give Range DPS Lady, and Melee Lord. It simply doesn't feel good.

Ironically, the way AST was initially set up seemed to be about fun. It's the type of job that does not lend to balance. It's either overpowered or underpowered. And there'll always be a single best result. But most of the fun was dealing with the buffs you had, and being able to have that control over battle, when everything aligned to your favor. Now, AST is a weaker WHM (because why ever use the MP drain that is Noct Sect outside of prepull shielding) with Minor Arcana on the side.

AST was designed as the flex healer, which was kind of bad in itself. It doesn't have the kit that SCH has to make Shields work, so it's Regen Mage in most content and it brings the buffs, which is it's strength. If anything, they should just get rid of Sects by this point and let it be the hybrid healer it should have been: weaker on both fronts, but off-set by it's strong support game and ability to do both. Celestial Intersectional and Neutral Sect already works towards this. But really, all that was needed was a level trait that allows the Sects to be a Stance Change like old Cleric's or WAR's Deliverance and Defiance. Tie it to a gauge or cooldown oGCD if you want. That way, it can play more nicely with itself, and both healers, instead of always competing with WHM for a slot.

The only other way to fix this healer balance debacle is to introduce a 4th healer and revamp everything to 2 main regen healers and 2 shield healers. Since they like homogenizing everything. Because a unique flex job and support bot like AST is not the answer. It goes against the grain, and it shows with SE Healing Balance woes.

And lately I've been thinking about this, I believe they dumbed-down the card system not only for those who "fished for balance anyways", but that they actually believed healing was now going to be challenging, and so they made the cards as mindless as possible: blue = melee purple = range.

That is my theory and it would explain the changes to SCH too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RegularJoe

The only other way to fix this healer balance debacle is to introduce a 4th healer and revamp everything to 2 main regen healers and 2 shield healers. Since they like homogenizing everything. Because a unique flex job and support bot like AST is not the answer. It goes against the grain, and it shows with SE Healing Balance woes.

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This +1000
They removed Prestance stance before, now Tank stances, but Diurnal and Nocturnal Sec are still here and still impossible to swap during combat.
Nocturnal has always be bad and SE doesn't know how to make it interesting compared to SCH, despite our suggestions.
So now, it's time to rethink this and have WHM/AST as regen healer and SCH/4th healer as shield healer !

I agree with that, stances have no place in this game, only AST and MNK kept them and not like MNK is having a good time with those either.

"Strong" : WHM Regen and SCH Shield.
Utility "weaker": AST Regen and 4th healer Shield.

Pretty much agree with OP. Not sure I'd call the new card system more impactful, but I prefer the single target buffs more as well as overall mechanics of the new cards more (no CD waste on Draw now).

But the cards are bland now. I just want to be excited to press Draw, is that too much to ask? :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

I find the flow to be worse, I am throwing more useless cards that have no feeling of impact just to get 3 seals for an ability that does not feel like it has an impact unless I also use another ability to just toss out as many cards as I can in a short while in order to have a kinda sorta discernible feeling of something working all while burning my own damage buff just trying to pass all those cards around before the party buff wears out. I also think a lot less when handling the system which leads it overall to just not be engaging. It has lead to frustration when I need that last seal and wind up burning all my redraws and not getting that seal, or only getting melee cards when I have no melee DPS.

Then again I was not one of those people who did nothing but fishing for aoe balance, so if you were one of those who only fished for aoe balance then I probably used a lot more cards then you. Though each card had a role and I could feel the impact. Be it a tank taking less damage then expected thanks to that bole I tossed out, my co-healer getting over 50% mana very fast after they had just been raised, or that BLM who is visibly casting far more faster or that SAM pulling off sooner midares, or seeing a Bard go ham as their procs cascaded.

Though I do have to say, Minor Arcana being stronger then Major Arcana is backwards. There is a reason why something is a Major instead of a Minor because a Major is supposed to have a greater effect then a Minor.

---

No. I wasn't one of those people. I preferred to actually use the full range of the card system, which is exactly why I hate that the flavor is gone. You're literally just disagreeing with me and then restating the same thing I said differently and somehow as a counter argument. The "flow" that you described isn't a flow. It's sour grapes over your unique buffs being gone. Well same. Imagine the current way you can toss out cards all over, only they're all the unique buffs we're used to.

I prefer the way the job plays now in terms of flow, because you're actively throwing out more buffs. That's supposed to be the primary identity of the job, a buffer. It's just that our buffs now are all the same buff...which is SO LAME.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Almostward

The flow now feels way more clunky/messy than SB astro. Now we just throw usless cards all the time that dont have much, or any, effect. The devs messed this one up bad

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Yep, now if only the original post actually addressed literally that, and said basically the same thing


hmmmm.

Throwing out more buffs isn't the issue. That's awesome. It's that the buffs we're throwing out are lame. Hence the flavor argument.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KanameYuuki

I strongly disagree with the new system being more impactful, unless you use 3rd party to check dps numbers, regular players and specially PS4 players like me, have no clue if anything is happening even with divination, with the old system you could notice when a tank was getting less damage, I could see my party casting be fast on party list, crits would pop up with spear and a bard going crazy, a fallen caster would get on its feet with an ewer, and a warrior would be able to finally do skills on big pulls after so much aoeing.

Same with the flow, having to convert every single card to Minor Arcana is tiresome, before you would do it to get value: an instant heal free of MP, which we could really use one, or a mini nuke, on a really undesired card or pre fight draw, it is literally DA.

If someone likes the new system I'm glad for them, but this should have been the 4th healer and not a rework nobody asked for.

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Imagine the current system, only the old buffs, and minor arcana now just makes your currently drawn buff stronger kind of like a mini royal road, and not overwrite your seals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

No. I wasn't one of those people. I preferred to actually use the full range of the card system, which is exactly why I hate that the flavor is gone. You're literally just disagreeing with me and then restating the same thing I said differently and somehow as a counter argument. The "flow" that you described isn't a flow. It's sour grapes over your unique buffs being gone. Well same. Imagine the current way you can toss out cards all over, only they're all the unique buffs we're used to.

I prefer the way the job plays now in terms of flow, because you're actively throwing out more buffs. That's supposed to be the primary identity of the job, a buffer. It's just that our buffs now are all the same buff...which is SO LAME.

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The thing is you could throw out as many buffs now as you could before. Nothing about the draw rate actually changed except for sleeve draw being reworked. What changed is we lost the ability to modify cards, extend their effects, and they got homogenized to one effect.

You could choose to use Royal Road to improve future buffs, but it was not required. Especially since you could put a card in spread and save trying to use royal road till the opportunity presented itself. Allowing you to throw out as many card buffs as you wanted. If you did not that was part of your thought processes behind your use of the cards.

The class is not throwing out more buffs, the class is throwing out worse homogenized buffs. It is trying to build up to a party buff that is weak without you using sleeve draw to throw more damage buff on top of it which disrupts the flow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

The thing is you could throw out as many buffs now as you could before. Nothing about the draw rate actually changed except for sleeve draw being reworked. What changed is we lost the ability to modify cards, extend their effects, and they got homogenized to one effect.

You could choose to use Royal Road to improve future buffs, but it was not required. Especially since you could put a card in spread and save trying to use royal road till the opportunity presented itself. Allowing you to throw out as many card buffs as you wanted. If you did not that was part of your thought processes behind your use of the cards.

The class is not throwing out more buffs, the class is throwing out worse homogenized buffs. It is trying to build up to a party buff that is weak without you using sleeve draw to throw more damage buff on top of it which disrupts the flow.

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Yeah, except Royal road was actually a loss in overall rDPS except when used for an expanded, because a 50% bonus is just losing you like half potency. Every time, without argue. I still really liked the effect of buffing my next card, but unless it doubled the power of the next card, you're losing potency. SE would have never allowed that. Could you imagine a 40% DPS buff on an ally? There'd be chaos in the streets. If RR still existed, you'd still always be expected to fish for an expanded SOMETHING just because of that. I prefer this world in which RR is gone, and every so many cards doesn't get eaten to power up the next card.

Also I seriously don't see the problem so many people have with sleeve draw. You aren't forced to use the card right away and GO GO GO. It's just like, 3 free buffs to help you fish for seals and/or get out a whole bunch of buffs. If you already have all your seals, it's an absolute win in which you just throw out 3 buffs without having to think too hard about it. Now imagine again...if these were the old buffs...

Current AST does need a QOL change, though. We should be able to get seals out of combat. It's so god damn annoying to be forced to throw out a heal or damage spell in dungeon before throwing out my card to make sure I get the seal. Like, I get why they did it, but it's unnecessary complication.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

Imagine the current system, only the old buffs, and minor arcana now just makes your currently drawn buff stronger kind of like a mini royal road, and not overwrite your seals.

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I used to believe this new system with the old cards would make it better but I don't think that anymore, the more I reminiscence about the previous system it makes me hate more and more why SE would even do it, I will give you that it has a "better flow" but let's compare decision making and engagement from old and the new one.

Nu AST
-Draw Card, check color, check seal, Do I need said seal? Redraw, play if got something good, otherwise minor arcana it or if 3 seals done, repeat until the end of days.

Old AST
-Draw, if first card check if RR for next or Spread if empty to make sure cool down on Draw starts asap, decide who is better target for said buff is it a good moment to TD it? CO up do I delay for Lucid maybe wait for 2 single target cards or a full party card? - should I delay Spread RR Balance / Arrow / Spear for next cooldowns of party?, etc.

It feels like it flows better because there is no substance to it, the nuance and engagement of Old AST was insane, we were the ones only having 1 Single target spell, DoT and Aoe and you know what? not even once I felt like I needed anything else while healing unlike now.


Before you would Malefic while you were waiting and playing with your cards.

Now cards are something to do in between your Malefic spam.


I know fun is subjective but I remember someone once said that Fun = Decisions / Time (Unfortunately I can't recall who said it), and I get none of that from Nu AST.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

Yeah, except Royal road was actually a loss in overall rDPS except when used for an expanded, because a 50% bonus is just losing you like half potency. Every time, without argue. I still really liked the effect of buffing my next card, but unless it doubled the power of the next card, you're losing potency. SE would have never allowed that. Could you imagine a 40% DPS buff on an ally? There'd be chaos in the streets. If RR still existed, you'd still always be expected to fish for an expanded SOMETHING just because of that. I prefer this world in which RR is gone, and every so many cards doesn't get eaten to power up the next card.

Also I seriously don't see the problem so many people have with sleeve draw. You aren't forced to use the card right away and GO GO GO. It's just like, 3 free buffs to help you fish for seals and/or get out a whole bunch of buffs. If you already have all your seals, it's an absolute win in which you just throw out 3 buffs without having to think too hard about it. Now imagine again...if these were the old buffs...

Current AST does need a QOL change, though. We should be able to get seals out of combat. It's so god damn annoying to be forced to throw out a heal or damage spell in dungeon before throwing out my card to make sure I get the seal. Like, I get why they did it, but it's unnecessary complication.

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If you did not like using expanded then you could have gone for an extended or enhanced. Which where both useful especially in 4 man dungeons or 24 man raids depending on the situation. A enhanced Bole will take the heat out of the horde of mobs smashing on your wall to wall tank, it will also take a big chunk out of a TB being dumped on the tank reducing your healing needs. Extended arrow on a BLM and they will love how much you boost their output. Extended Ewer is also great for putting on your co-healer after they just got back up since it will refill their MP completely.

The fishing for AoE balance was something savage optimizers did and was not a requirement for all the rest of the content you played more then once a week.

The problem with sleeve draw is that it needs to be used in your divination windows which last 15 seconds. So you are on the clock to GO GO GO SPAM SPAM SPAM the cards out as FAST FAST FAST as possible. Otherwise it is a waste. If you use it just to get seals... then you pretty much just reduce yourself to even more mindless minor arcanas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

If you did not like using expanded then you could have gone for an extended or enhanced. Which where both useful especially in 4 man dungeons or 24 man raids depending on the situation. A enhanced Bole will take the heat out of the horde of mobs smashing on your wall to wall tank, it will also take a big chunk out of a TB being dumped on the tank reducing your healing needs. Extended arrow on a BLM and they will love how much you boost their output. Extended Ewer is also great for putting on your co-healer after they just got back up since it will refill their MP completely.

The fishing for AoE balance was something savage optimizers did and was not a requirement for all the rest of the content you played more then once a week.

The problem with sleeve draw is that it needs to be used in your divination windows which last 15 seconds. So you are on the clock to GO GO GO SPAM SPAM SPAM the cards out as FAST FAST FAST as possible. Otherwise it is a waste. If you use it just to get seals... then you pretty much just reduce yourself to even more mindless minor arcanas.

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Okay, again, the issue with that is if you literally do any math at all you realize doing anything but expanded is dumb. Did I still do it? Yeah? Did I have people ask me why I'm not using expanded when I should be? Yeah.

Your options are lose a card and get 50% extra potency on next one, effectively using 2 cards for 150% potency. Meaning a net loss of 50% potency. Meanwhile expanded halved the effectiveness of your next card, but spread it over 4-8 people. In a group of 8 people that's 50% potency x 8 people. that's 400% potency..... It's not even a "min-max" thing. That's a MASSIVE difference.

It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that 400% potency in 2 cards vs 150% potency in 2 cards is a *little* better. With our current card manipulation abilities, this issue would never arise. You can always do what's most effective on a single target, then they could rework minor arcana to be something of a royal road that doesn't eat your card, and it'd be great. Giving up a seal to buff your card, rewarding you for filling up on seals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

Let's be honest about this. The new actual FLOW of the job is better. It feels better to have more cards to throw. You feel more impactful, and being able to throw the cards onto who you want instead of always fishing for AoE balance feels GREAT.

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I could not disagree with you more.

Impact? What impact? A +3/6% buff is not impactful in any way shape or form. That's the biggest issue. If the cards actually had potent effects to them then maybe I could find the loss of the card flavor more bearable. As is now, its 0 impact and I get by just not thinking about how little I'm actually doing.

Even worse, our 'Big' payoff is 4/5/6% damage buff for 15 seconds. Going by GCD that's 5 abilities. Let that sink in, you work for so long just to give 5 of your ally abilities +6% dmg (ideally) (edit: FOOD gives them for pity sakes, for one hour!)

ps. The big 'choices' or 'blunders' are literally a 1% dmg loss on your Divination... Apologies, I'm just extra upset about these changes still.

We went from:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....yL._SX466_.jpg
You have the pieces, make them work.

to:

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LZLUX...hape-match.jpg
Match the shape (seal) and color.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KanameYuuki

We went from:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....yL._SX466_.jpg
You have the pieces, make them work.

to:

https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1LZLUX...hape-match.jpg
Match the shape (seal) and color.

---

And this is bad because? Simplification seems to be demonized around here. It isn't always a bad thing. I would actually probably agree if an assembly puzzle allowed you to take a piece your grabbed, and change it to the piece you need via a RR, Spread or Minor Arcana. That is something I strongly disliked about the old mechanic that has also bleed over into the new one, and it's that we are not forced to play the card we are dealt.

I am fine with the seals system. I am ok that all cards buff DPS. I am not ok that the cards do not buff the AST in anyway with the exception of a DMG boost that likely should be used on another player. Each of those six cards should provide the AST with some kind of powerup, and these can be a myriad of possibilities. I've brought up aetherial spikes that deliver damage if the AST is struck; increased movement speed, def/mdef^, haste, among others. Point being they buff they AST and nobody else with the exception of that initial DMG boost to the player.

I feel this would not only give AST mains back that element of feeling each card's impact, it will also actually give them a choice unlike both iterations of this mechanic.

On a last note, I will always be troubled by Divination so long as the devs continue to not see that the odds are the exact same for getting three of one seal as they are getting one of each. There is basically two outcomes as of right now because no one will intentionally give themselves 3 of the same seal unless the system was changed into something I suggested above.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gemina

And this is bad because? Simplification seems to be demonized around here. It isn't always a bad thing. I would actually probably agree if an assembly puzzle allowed you to take a piece your grabbed, and change it to the piece you need via a RR, Spread or Minor Arcana. That is something I strongly disliked about the old mechanic that has also bleed over into the new one, and it's that we are not forced to play the card we are dealt.

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When the entire rest of the class is highly simple outside of the 1 core system that separates the class from all the rest then simplifying the core system is really really bad. It kills engagement in the class. Especially when you can take that entire simplified core system and replace it with 3 buttons and achieve the same effect for considerably less effort, even better optimization, and even better flow, without any loss in what little engagement is left it really shows how bad the simplification is.

I mean it, the cards are un-engaging and all do the same thing so you could just remove the cards entirely and reduce it to a "draw" giving a 15 sec 6% ST damage buff on a 30 sec cooldown button. Divination becomes a 15 sec 6% party damage buff on a 120 sec cooldown. "Sleeve draw" causes the "draw" button to reset and gain 2 additional charges. No need for minor arcana, because that was just so you did not overwrite seals, no need for seals because they exists to keep the card count, no need for the melee/range split because just like with the seals it only existed to keep the card count.

Could have even kept the same animations and nothing would change. Other then less frustration.

Oh and if the cards only actually buffed AST then its pointless. AST is meant to buff everyone, to change the fates of those they can. Not just help themselves. The cards need to have impact for whoever AST places the card upon.

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Originally Posted by Ubbernaut

I could not disagree with you more.

Impact? What impact? A +3/6% buff is not impactful in any way shape or form. That's the biggest issue. If the cards actually had potent effects to them then maybe I could find the loss of the card flavor more bearable. As is now, its 0 impact and I get by just not thinking about how little I'm actually doing.

Even worse, our 'Big' payoff is 4/5/6% damage buff for 15 seconds. Going by GCD that's 5 abilities. Let that sink in, you work for so long just to give 5 of your ally abilities +6% dmg (ideally) (edit: FOOD gives them for pity sakes, for one hour!)

ps. The big 'choices' or 'blunders' are literally a 1% dmg loss on your Divination... Apologies, I'm just extra upset about these changes still.

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Oh, If we're talking about the PATCH changes they just made, I completely agree. They just simplified the job even more. It felt almost like "Oh, they just hate AST because it's still too hard, let's make it even easier for the widdle babies" I hate what they did with that.

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

Oh, If we're talking about the PATCH changes they just made, I completely agree. They just simplified the job even more. It felt almost like "Oh, they just hate AST because it's still too hard, let's make it even easier for the widdle babies" I hate what they did with that.

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I couldn't believe that when I saw it, the healing buffs were ofc needed and sleeve draw usability too but then they somehow managed to simplify even more seals lol, I can't even. Did they really think we were complaining that getting all those seals was the problem?

You know, the more I've thought about the AST cards, the more I've been pondering if maybe they went about fixing its issues the wrong way. I know that doesn't sound all that revolutionary because a lot of people have complained, but I don't necessarily mean just that the card effects shouldn't have been changed.

Rather, what I'm thinking is that maybe the process of drawing them is what should've changed more than the effects themselves. RNG was a massive issue for the card effects where there were cards that were clearly superior to others. I've started thinking about the idea of removing Divination and having Horoscope adopt a Divination-like effect (for thematic purposes I'll explain in a second), and changing how cards are drawn using the seal system.

I'm thinking that the cards could be broken up into pairs in a slightly different way, but still using seals:

Solar Seals impact DPS (So this could be the melee vs ranged damage buff effect)
Lunar Seals impact Tanks (So some upgraded version of the old Bole possible, or just two new Tank cards regardless)
Celestial Seals impact Healers (So maybe old Ewer and something new like a heal potency increase)

In this idea, when you gain a Seal, you can no longer draw cards of that Seal until you spend it. So if you draw The Balance to boost an ally's DPS, you won't be able to draw another Solar Seal DPS card. This persists until you've acquired all 3 seals, in which Draw changes into Horoscope.

Horoscope is similar to Divination, except instead of just boosting everyone's Damage, it applies all 6 cards at once to the team, applying both Solar Seals to all DPS, both Lunar Seals to all Tanks, and both Celestial Seals to all Healers. Then you start over again.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You know, the more I've thought about the AST cards, the more I've been pondering if maybe they went about fixing its issues the wrong way. I know that doesn't sound all that revolutionary because a lot of people have complained, but I don't necessarily mean just that the card effects shouldn't have been changed.

Rather, what I'm thinking is that maybe the process of drawing them is what should've changed more than the effects themselves. RNG was a massive issue for the card effects where there were cards that were clearly superior to others. I've started thinking about the idea of removing Divination and having Horoscope adopt a Divination-like effect (for thematic purposes I'll explain in a second), and changing how cards are drawn using the seal system.

I'm thinking that the cards could be broken up into pairs in a slightly different way, but still using seals:

Solar Seals impact DPS (So this could be the melee vs ranged damage buff effect)
Lunar Seals impact Tanks (So some upgraded version of the old Bole possible, or just two new Tank cards regardless)
Celestial Seals impact Healers (So maybe old Ewer and something new like a heal potency increase)

In this idea, when you gain a Seal, you can no longer draw cards of that Seal until you spend it. So if you draw The Balance to boost an ally's DPS, you won't be able to draw another Solar Seal DPS card. This persists until you've acquired all 3 seals, in which Draw changes into Horoscope.

Horoscope is similar to Divination, except instead of just boosting everyone's Damage, it applies all 6 cards at once to the team, applying both Solar Seals to all DPS, both Lunar Seals to all Tanks, and both Celestial Seals to all Healers. Then you start over again.

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Alternatively they could have given us 2 buttons, one button that acted like a "stance" that allowed us to select what card we wanted and a second button that acted upon this stance to forcibly draw that card out. Put it on a 1 min cooldown. On top of this give us a second spread slot we can store a card in. Treat it as aligning with a particular constellation to call upon its power in a moment of need.

This means you can consistently draw the card you want every minute. You also with the second slot have more flexibility in what cards you have available to use. This means one could always have a utility card (like Bole for an upcoming tank buster, or ewer on hand for mana issues) at the ready and a DPS card at the ready. This would have put a stop to balance fishing, but also made it easier to plan for future situations. Combine with the 3 redraws and you have a lot of control over your card system.

The idea you had for Horoscope is similar to one I had to make Divination feel worth a 3 min cooldown.

Reading so much QQ in the forum I was scared to touch my AST, but boy, do I feel good levelling it again. The new AST is heaps better, cards are not as stressful as previous expansions, and everything flows nicely. Actually I feel very powerful as an AST now, all spells are very fast (or feel like very fast). To be honest, I prefer my AST to WHM right now.

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Originally Posted by ksuyen

Reading so much QQ in the forum I was scared to touch my AST, but boy, do I feel good levelling it again. The new AST is heaps better, cards are not as stressful as previous expansions, and everything flows nicely. Actually I feel very powerful as an AST now, all spells are very fast (or feel like very fast). To be honest, I prefer my AST to WHM right now.

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Well just don't try to take it into serious content like savage, people serious about savage clears wont accept it because of the massive rDPS deficit it is. The buffs to its healing have made it better, and while the cards can be considered less stressful they are also almost no impact which is why WHM has a 1500 rDPS advantage over it. The spells were made faster so AST could do all the weaving it is required to do during sleeve draw. If you are just a dungeon healer then you should not run into any bad problems aside from not so good ST healing during wall to wall pulls.

I'm one of "them" that loves and miss the old card's AND the old flow of AST. Even with the new patch i feel no difference in whole(dirunal is slightly buffed but noct got somehow a buff and a nerv in the same place, potency got raised but the shields got nerfed) and i survive all content so far(but i'm not happy with the "feeling",)... but the cards... yesterday a few run's titania ex. in two run's i concentratet mainly on cards, in the first run, i had so much luck with throwing the right cards and get the right seals. all fluffy right? right after that in the next run, i had absolut zero luck, i even thrown a 3 same seal at the party because i feared that in the time titania died, i cant use a single 3 different seal divination! :O and know what? do difference ok a bit, we got her a few SECONDS earlier down... a FEW... with the old cards i had the feeling i had impact on past content, that we finished it minutes faster OR finished it at the same time because some guy's dieing or other dire situations like that. as example, i cant count the huge number of times i saved an raid only because i used ewer on a freshly rezzed co-healer.

Now, with an other healer on my side, sometimes i have the feeling i drag the group down, because of my low healings, low dps or the time i have to concentrate on the cards, i know this time have not changed but my impact with the new cards are so tiny that the feeling to lose someone or eating an aoe only because you looked at your cards... is feeling double bad. xD

and sorry for my bad english, i hope its understandable. ^-^

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Alternatively they could have given us 2 buttons, one button that acted like a "stance" that allowed us to select what card we wanted and a second button that acted upon this stance to forcibly draw that card out. Put it on a 1 min cooldown. On top of this give us a second spread slot we can store a card in. Treat it as aligning with a particular constellation to call upon its power in a moment of need.

This means you can consistently draw the card you want every minute. You also with the second slot have more flexibility in what cards you have available to use. This means one could always have a utility card (like Bole for an upcoming tank buster, or ewer on hand for mana issues) at the ready and a DPS card at the ready. This would have put a stop to balance fishing, but also made it easier to plan for future situations. Combine with the 3 redraws and you have a lot of control over your card system.

The idea you had for Horoscope is similar to one I had to make Divination feel worth a 3 min cooldown.

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Y'know...They could have also just made Minor Arcana a stance that forcibly draws from the minor arcanas when you draw a card instead of the Majors, so instead of forcing an extra button before every single card after you get your seals, you just turn it on and can just keep throwing out buffs...

The more I think about it the more oversights I find.

They could also make it so Minor Arcana could just be a play button that automatically plays a card on its minor form, so we can get rid of that time / process of converting it and then playing.

I feel like the flow is worse than before I'm constantly needing to retargeting for small buffs then retargeting boss to not lose my malefic mean while once we got the 1.5 in sb I just stayed targeting the boss while setting up an aoe buff for the party that I could throw out centered from me so little to no retargeting

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Originally Posted by tikiwiki

I feel like the flow is worse than before I'm constantly needing to retargeting for small buffs then retargeting boss to not lose my malefic mean while once we got the 1.5 in sb I just stayed targeting the boss while setting up an aoe buff for the party that I could throw out centered from me so little to no retargeting

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I wont argue that for trash pulls or controllers, but tab targeting works just fine in this situation for single bosses.