Imagine for a moment if you will

The entire nature of this thread is hypothetical. It is meant for fun. So with that preface lets not have arguments but discussions and debates.

Also this is not for trying to push changes in the game or implementing features, there are a plethora of threads for that kind of discussion already with more being added by the minute.

With that out of the way... Ill start us off with one

Level Cap
What if with all these Expansions we have now, the level cap never went past 50.
We still got classes added, but we never got skills removed to make place for new ones due to button bloat. Our actual skills are never really important outside class and job quests, and those stopped really being tied to it past level 50. We would still get new job quests each expansion but without the need to balance the new tool kits each time. Those resources could be spent on other areas.

SMN
What if instead of carbuncle glamours, we got actual Egi for the Primals we fight in each patch or expansion?

EDIT
Please feel free to add your own what if scenarios! Any brought forward will be added below!

Added What Ifs

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinSilverwing

Player Housing

While i have no issues with Wards and Plots like we currently have... The system does feel dated, and likely is how it is due to the often mentioned Spaghetti Code.
What if it was like LotR Online where it is set that each time one of their wards fills up a new one is automatically added it without the devs touching it. Or like 11 did, which was our own instanced room. Maybe make it a 2 floor with a balcony used for the "outdoor" furnishings and gardening.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinSilverwing

The entire nature of this thread is hypothetical. It is meant for fun. So with that preface lets not have arguments but discussions and debates.

Also this is not for trying to push changes in the game or implementing features, there are a plethora of threads for that kind of discussion already with more being added by the minute.

With that out of the way... Ill start us off with one

Level Cap
What if with all these Expansions we have now, the level cap never went past 50.
We still got classes added, but we never got skills removed to make place for new ones due to button bloat. Our actual skills are never really important outside class and job quests, and those stopped really being tied to it past level 50. We would still get new job quests each expansion but without the need to balance the new tool kits each time. Those resources could be spent on other areas.

SMN
What if instead of carbuncle glamours, we got actual Egi for the Primals we fight in each patch or expansion?

---

http://aws-cf.imdoc.fr/prod/photos/6...269abe.jpg?v=1

I mean the lvl cap in FFXI was 75 for years yet they still introduced new skills at various points for different jobs, they don't have to raise the lvl cap to add more skills.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerLuke

I mean the lvl cap in FFXI was 75 for years yet they still introduced new skills at various points for different jobs, they don't have to raise the lvl cap to add more skills.

---

True, my reasoning is they take away skills with each level cap raise to add new ones because they don't want jobs to go beyond a certain number of skills. So mayhap with expansions they add traits that could upgrade skills to new ones this brings about new skills and abilities without the worry of button bloat.

One of the major concerns would be progression. How would you feel that your character is getting more powerful? Is that even a concern to consider? I feel that it is but I am no expert. Would you get higher item level gear each expansion? Would you abilities just start doing more damage/healing each expansion? Part of the reason players play games is to have their characters grow and become stronger.

I personally liked that many of the things in 11 stayed relevant years later. Not having everything I did last expansion relegated to a gear locker or the vendor was a nice feeling. I assume I am in the minority here though.

I don't feel like this game lends itself well to the horizontal progression the Guild Wars franchise and the like do where you cap your level and equipment relatively fast and then find other ways to progress.
The loot spiral is too ingrained into the game to get rid of on a whim and as long as we keep progression through better and better loot just stopping progression through character levels is not going to do much of anything. All you would do is take away character growth for those players not heavily invested in the loot spiral.

Horizontal progression can work but the game has to be designed around it from the start and FFXIV very much isn't.

As for Egi-glamours: Ramuh-egi has been "coming" long enough to suggest that Egi-glamour is well and truly abandoned.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandos

One of the major concerns would be progression. How would you feel that your character is getting more powerful?

---

To be fair, your character gets weaker with increased job level, not stronger (unless you're progressing whilst naked), because the secondary stats of your gear are devalued each level.

It's added skills and item level that make you stronger.

But I suppose the natural question that would stem next from all that is then, why even have levels at all, instead of simply item level and acquired skills? And I think that just comes down to packaging what really matters (skills and item level) under easier to understand tangential waymarks (job levels), and I don't find anything inherently wrong with that bit of bloat or misassumption if it nonetheless helps the average player.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Astrus

I don't feel like this game lends itself well to the horizontal progression the Guild Wars franchise and the like do where you cap your level and equipment relatively fast and then find other ways to progress.
The loot spiral is too ingrained into the game to get rid of on a whim and as long as we keep progression through better and better loot just stopping progression through character levels is not going to do much of anything. All you would do is take away character growth for those players not heavily invested in the loot spiral.

Horizontal progression can work but the game has to be designed around it from the start and FFXIV very much isn't.

As for Egi-glamours: Ramuh-egi has been "coming" long enough to suggest that Egi-glamour is well and truly abandoned.

---

Like i said, this was all in fun.

I wasn't trying to say that they do away and rework 14 from what it is, I quite enjoy it even if the gear grind gets taxing at times. Rather I was trying to picture a world were 14 had been designed with horizontal progression from the start.

As for the Egi Glams, its a pipe dream.

In the end this was never a thread to be serious about trying to redesign the game but rather imagine what it could be like if certain desicions and choices been made differently during the games inception before the coding even began. Which is where my body came from with the Level Caps

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xandos

One of the major concerns would be progression. How would you feel that your character is getting more powerful? Is that even a concern to consider? I feel that it is but I am no expert. Would you get higher item level gear each expansion? Would you abilities just start doing more damage/healing each expansion? Part of the reason players play games is to have their characters grow and become stronger.

I personally liked that many of the things in 11 stayed relevant years later. Not having everything I did last expansion relegated to a gear locker or the vendor was a nice feeling. I assume I am in the minority here though.

---

In theory ilvl would keep progressing as it is now, our stats would continue to grow with gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinSilverwing

So mayhap with expansions they add traits that could upgrade skills to new ones this brings about new skills and abilities without the worry of button bloat.

---

They already do that now.

Example: Stone -> Stone II -> Stone III -> Stone IV -> Glare

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bacent

They already do that now.

Example: Stone -> Stone II -> Stone III -> Stone IV -> Glare

---

Like you have pointed out, i would rather see that over them take out skills, like they have done each expansion to make room for new ones with only upgrading a few.

Honestly, you can get rid of class/job levels altogether and just have item levels. That keeps the sense of progression without the need to change/rebalance job each expansion due to increasing job levels (though you can still add or change skills as desired).

EDIT: As someone has pointed out:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerLuke

In theory ilvl would keep progressing as it is now, our stats would continue to grow with gear.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SerLuke

In theory ilvl would keep progressing as it is now, our stats would continue to grow with gear.

---

I honestly hope when we hit level 99-100 they just keep raising item level and skills and add new abilities while our level remains in the same ala classic final fantasy design. As opposed to going to 110, 120, 130, 140..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by linay

Honestly, you can get rid of class/job levels altogether and just have item levels. That keeps the sense of progression without the need to change/rebalance job each expansion due to increasing job levels (though you can still add or change skills as desired).

EDIT: As someone has pointed out:

---

Its not about raw damage input but rather refreshing the gameplay to keep it entertaining. Playing the same character with the same skill-set get stale fast. At least in the kind of MMO FFXIV is.

As an example, playing a mage that use the sames four spells but stronger for years don't feel like he progress as much as a mage learning new spell and new way to use the spells that got stronger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reslin

I honestly hope when we hit level 99-100 they just keep raising item level and skills and add new abilities while our level remains in the same ala classic final fantasy design. As opposed to going to 110, 120, 130, 140..

---

Yeah honestly levels as they are now are a bit pointless outside of gaining new abilities are very pointless as most of our stats come from gear, for example on my lvl 80 i444 PLD I have 114,553 HP before any food or party buffs. without gear outside of a lvl 5 sword(cause the game makes you wear a weapon at all times) I only have 6320 HP at lvl 80.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nariel

Its not about raw damage input but rather refreshing the gameplay to keep it entertaining. Playing the same character with the same skill-set get stale fast.

---

I was merely responding to the progression factor. Like I said, you can still modify skillset as desired for variability, but it's no longer tied to job level, which would necessitate it.

Player Housing

While i have no issues with Wards and Plots like we currently have... The system does feel dated, and likely is how it is due to the often mentioned Spaghetti Code.
What if it was like LotR Online where it is set that each time one of their wards fills up a new one is automatically added it without the devs touching it. Or like 11 did, which was our own instanced room. Maybe make it a 2 floor with a balcony used for the "outdoor" furnishings and gardening.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SinSilverwing

Level Cap
What if with all these Expansions we have now, the level cap never went past 50.

---

We know what that was like. It was called FFXI.

Specifically the Tanaka-era FFXI, the level cap was stuck on 75 for eight years and three expansions, once he left in the wake of the FFXIV 1.0 launch debacle in 2010 and a new team was brought in the level cap quickly was raised every few months to ultimately 99. When the level cap was frozen on 75 for so long, the game ended up going stale, not to mention rock hard with most content outside of levelling virtually inaccessable unless you were in the minority elite endgame community with their spreadsheet strategies and exploiting certain gear. Thank Azeyma Yoshi made sure to avoid this nonsense when he took over the helm of FFXIV from Tanaka and designed ARR.

FFXI's level cap being raised along with new additions like the Trust npc fighter system made the game so much more enjoyable and bearable. And it's the same here in FFXIV. The game simply has to grow and cannot remain static for too long as content goes stale rapidly otherwise.

I would welcome an expansion or two that doesn't increase the leveling cap. The MSQ would be rather short but could potentially have alot of story and lore to provide for those that like it (think of all the story we had in ShB but without having to do fetch quests to buffer your level). There would be far more dungeons right off the bat. Areas would all be challenging and relevant. Difficulty could pick up where the previous expansion left off instead of resetting and working its way back up.

Devs would need less time spent on leveling content. Balancing classes (it would have been done prior). And more time on dungeons, MSQ, and endgame. Everyone would also start at the same place in the 'endgame' so population disparity would be less.