Love the DRK, thoughts on other tanks.

I know the trend is to complain but I love the new DRK.

Sure i could post little things i would change but the point is he feels way better than he ever has. He finally has a god damn flow, like every class should. He is still the most complicated tank to play and I love that, im always doing something.

War is also awesome just like last expansion, high DMG, sustainability and huge satisfaction factor.

PLD is a brick wall as usual, not my cup of tea but fills the role of the pure tank greatly.

Gunbreaker looks cool and has great dmg but honestly his rotation is braindead simple, a great starter tank imo but eventually boring, same as the red mage.

What do you mean DRK have now a flow? The job has a flow before and a good one, just bcs you don't like it doesn't make it haven't it.

And it's nice if you want to believe you play the most complicate tank but current DRK can't stand at the size of the boots of PLD and GNB in terms of complexity, not even his older versions that make current DRK looks like a Job for 3 years old kids, no offense.

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Originally Posted by shao32

What do you mean DRK have now a flow? The job has a flow before and a good one, just bcs you don't like it doesn't make it haven't it.

And it's nice if you want to believe you play the most complicate tank but current DRK can't stand at the size of the boots of PLD and GNB in terms of complexity, not even his older versions that make current DRK looks like a Job for 3 years old kids, no offense.

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Care to elaborate the complexity of the GNB?. How exactly is his gameplay more complex than DRK?.

Am I the only one who actually misses Dark Arts o_O?
Especially on a visual standpoint DRK's 1 2 3 combo is just zzzZZzzzZ without it.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Am I the only one who actually misses Dark Arts o_O?
Especially on a visual standpoint DRK's 1 2 3 combo is just zzzZZzzzZ without it.

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I don't miss the ability itself but I do somewhat miss the animation. I would really love seeing the animation make a comeback, perhaps being the activation animation for Delirium or for when the Walking Dead state gets activated after using Living Dead.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

I don't miss the ability itself but I do somewhat miss the animation. I would really love seeing the animation make a comeback, perhaps being the activation animation for Delirium or for when the Walking Dead state gets activated after using Living Dead.

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I miss the animation as well, I expected dark arts to become a simple damage buff or similar with a long cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

Am I the only one who actually misses Dark Arts o_O?

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I'll miss the animation. It really sold the concept of magically amping yourself up with a surge of power. It was the tedium of having to do it over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that drained the fun out of it.

I wouldn't have minding keeping the actual Dark Arts skill and just making it less repetitive. Even something simple like, "+x% increased damage for y seconds" would have been cool. Maybe replace the animations of your 1-2-3 combo during it's duration with some of the many unused animations DRK has racked up in a short amount of time.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

Care to elaborate the complexity of the GNB?. How exactly is his gameplay more complex than DRK?.

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Of course, first to DRK is solely based on 123 combo with his oGCD on recast and always keep 3k of mp for TBN, his buffs blood weapon and delirium are based on fit 5 GCD between 10s, in case of delirium being bloodspiller only and that's it, his skills have zero sinergy so there is no order or any requirement you have to keep in mind when you play the job compared to the past versions.

GNB on the other hand have his burst combo gnasing fang every 30s and his no mercy buff window every 60 where you have to fit 2 dots, a complete gnashing fang combo and the most amount of burst strikes posible. GNB need his gnashing fang combo perfectly sync to work properly or you have to delay the entire combo 30s to alineate everything again depending of how much you mess up. his burst window require being used on different GCD of his main combo to gain the most amount of burst strike during no mercy depending of bloodfest recast, in other words GNB have many stuff to keep in mind to keep his DPS properly Vs DRK keep everything on recast saves 3k of MP and that's it.

Note I'm not complaint about GNB gameplay at all, I find it fun and rewarding.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Of course, first to DRK is solely based on 123 combo with his oGCD on recast and always keep 3k of mp for TBN, his buffs blood weapon and delirium are based on fit 5 GCD between 10s, in case of delirium being bloodspiller only and that's it, his skills have zero sinergy so there is no order or any requirement you have to keep in mind when you play the job compared to the past versions.

GNB on the other hand have his burst combo gnasing fang every 30s and his no mercy buff window every 60 where you have to fit 2 dots, a complete gnashing fang combo and the most amount of burst strikes posible. GNB need his gnashing fang combo perfectly sync to work properly or you have to delay the entire combo 30s to alineate everything again depending of how much you mess up. his burst window require being used on different GCD of his main combo to gain the most amount of burst strike during no mercy depending of bloodfest recast, in other words GNB have many stuff to keep in mind to keep his DPS properly Vs DRK keep everything on recast saves 3k of MP and that's it.

Note I'm not complaint about GNB gameplay at all, I find it fun and rewarding.

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What you described about GNB is not complex whatsoever, its a simple rotation, specially compared with any of the other 3 tanks.
The complexity about tanks is about active mitigation, you"HAVE" to wisely mitigate dmg to stay alive and not overtax the healers (its not just pop stuff on tank busters).
Other than that, the only complex skill among the tanks is called TBN, and only because its a possible loss of 500 potency if misused.

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Originally Posted by ExLegen

What you described about GNB is not complex whatsoever, its a simple rotation, specially compared with any of the other 3 tanks.
The complexity about tanks is about active mitigation, you"HAVE" to wisely mitigate dmg to stay alive and not overtax the healers (its not just pop stuff on tank busters).
Other than that, the only complex skill among the tanks is called TBN, and only because its a possible loss of 500 potency if misused.

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TBN is not complex, it's limited by design and the excessive punishment.

Rotation is more complex to execute and keep depending of the design of the rotation himself, keep the integrity of the rotation is more harder depending of the job, in the case of GNB and PLD they rotations are more rigid so are harder to adjust to mechanics and correct mistakes Vs DRK that they can fit abyssal drain, salted earth, carve and spit, edge, blood weapon window and delirium window where they want and when they want since there is nothing that hold the power of such skills since all of them are independent now, so his execution is fairly much more easy in result. DRK have his resource management severely simplified and reduced so the job don't have anything that can be take as difficult to use, TBN status right now just limit the skill to TB and only TB that's all.

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Originally Posted by ExLegen

What you described about GNB is not complex whatsoever, its a simple rotation, specially compared with any of the other 3 tanks.
The complexity about tanks is about active mitigation, you"HAVE" to wisely mitigate dmg to stay alive and not overtax the healers (its not just pop stuff on tank busters).
Other than that, the only complex skill among the tanks is called TBN, and only because its a possible loss of 500 potency if misused.

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This 100% after playing both Drk and GnB (I think I main GnB)drk is definitely more complex tho , the mp manage is way harder to manage than anything gunbreaker has.. and TBN is definitely the most complex defensive cd of all the tanks. Mind you all tanks are pretty easy anyways. Drk needs a few changes for sure but I will say it's very fun right now

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Originally Posted by Drakkaelus

I wouldn't have minding keeping the actual Dark Arts skill and just making it less repetitive. Even something simple like, "+x% increased damage for y seconds" would have been cool.

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I'd have to agree. SB DRK's Dark Arts became tedious for tedium's sake.

The spam had a weird effect on me. Although I didn't necessarily mind doing twice the work of the other tank jobs (really, like 1/4th - 1/3rd more) for a similar output, it always gave me the feeling that I was actually outputting considerably less in the end.

However! Now they only have their 1 2 3, which is odd to me where all 3 of the other tanks have either the branch at the end (3a/3b), or a different set every 20 seconds for GNB. I thought that would be an enormous complaint point in the forums when I first saw it. I'll have to check this out when I lvl that class though. 2 down 2 to go for full 80 omni tank, and then I'll have a greater opinion on how I think the current DRK is compared to a month ago.

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Originally Posted by shao32

TBN is not complex, it's limited by design and the excessive punishment.

Rotation is more complex to execute and keep depending of the design of the rotation himself, keep the integrity of the rotation is more harder depending of the job, in the case of GNB and PLD they rotations are more rigid so are harder to adjust to mechanics and correct mistakes Vs DRK that they can fit abyssal drain, salted earth, carve and spit, edge, blood weapon window and delirium window where they want and when they want since there is nothing that hold the power of such skills since all of them are independent now, so his execution is fairly much more easy in result. DRK have his resource management severely simplified and reduced so the job don't have anything that can be take as difficult to use, TBN status right now just limit the skill to TB and only TB that's all.

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rotations being less easy isnt the same as hard.

And about TBN, im not saying its complex per say. im saying its complex when compared to other tanks Kit. Outside of tank busters, its either a gamble or you have very deep knowledge of the fights.

DRK was complex back in the days of Heavensward. It was also a lot more fun too (even if its kit was kind of messy).

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Originally Posted by shao32

TBN is not complex, it's limited by design and the excessive punishment.

Rotation is more complex to execute and keep depending of the design of the rotation himself, keep the integrity of the rotation is more harder depending of the job, in the case of GNB and PLD they rotations are more rigid so are harder to adjust to mechanics and correct mistakes Vs DRK that they can fit abyssal drain, salted earth, carve and spit, edge, blood weapon window and delirium window where they want and when they want since there is nothing that hold the power of such skills since all of them are independent now, so his execution is fairly much more easy in result. DRK have his resource management severely simplified and reduced so the job don't have anything that can be take as difficult to use, TBN status right now just limit the skill to TB and only TB that's all.

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GnB rotation is not hard though lol and is only more complex because u get a few more buttons to press. Overall as a class Gunbreaker is pretty easy, might be the easiest right now actually. Doesn't get punished by anything and the rotation is fast and linear

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Originally Posted by ExLegen

rotations being less easy isnt the same as hard.

And about TBN, im not saying its complex per say. im saying its complex when compared to other tanks Kit. Outside of tank busters, its either a gamble or you have very deep knowledge of the fights.

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Ok now i believe we need to define the word hard, what's harder? GNB is more complex and more harder to play that DRK but that's don't make my argument to GNB is the super hard god level skill level needed, that's are 2 different things.

TBN is not a hard skill or a complex one, it's just a skill that can only being used against TB or a big crow of adds bcs his design limit the effective uses, there is no choice at all, or you use it on those places or you eat the dps lose that's all.

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Originally Posted by Vinsmoke66

GnB rotation is not hard though lol and is only more complex because u get a few more buttons to press. Overall as a class Gunbreaker is pretty easy, might be the easiest right now actually. Doesn't get punished by anything and the rotation is fast and linear

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Complexity is equal to more stuff to keep in mind so it's more harder to keep, but again that's depend of what you are comparing GNB, I'm comparing the job with DRK witch is currently with WAR the most easy jobs in the game by far not against BLM or MCH

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Originally Posted by shao32

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Gnashing Fang being on a 30s recast doesn't make the job more complex, it makes it less complex. Being on a 30s recast mean that it lines up with all raid buff windows. No Mercy then being on a 60s recast means that it and Gnashing Fang just line up, no adjustment or extra thought required, just use No Mercy with every other Gnashing Fang.
Seriously, Gnashing Fang is no harder nor more complex than Delirium. With Gnashing Fang you press 1 button multiple times (3x Continuation) with alternating abilities used between. With Delirium, you press 1 button multiple times (5x Bloodspiller) while weaving other abilities between.

As far as fitting in 1 combo rotation, a GCD DoT and every oGCD available, that is virtually no different to how other tanks try to line-up and fit as much as possible into their bursts. Also with No Mercy's 20s duration you have plenty of time to fit all of that in. At least on PLD you have to fit two DoT combos into FoF, one at the beginning and one at the end, which is discernibly more complex than No Mercy.

IMO, GNB is not this high-skill, complex tank job like some are making it out to be and really appears to be quite the opposite. What it really appears to be is a job intended to get more new players and DPS players to try out tanking. It's a heavy fan-service job with a good deal of pay-off for often less effort than the other tank jobs. The rotation is fairly straight-forward, feeling fast and powerful while remaining pretty simplistic and being similar enough to a lighter version of a DPS rotation that will feel immediately familiar to a player trying to make the switch.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Ok now i believe we need to define the word hard, what's harder? GNB is more complex and more harder to play that DRK but that's don't make my argument to GNB is the super hard god level skill level needed, that's are 2 different things.

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Both are very easy, they belong to the "easy" spectrum. Eating and watching TV is harder then just watching TV or eating, but both are very easy regardless. =p

But, imo, i think GNB is a bit easier, just because you dont need to pay any atention to your Mana. How many times i freaked out with my GBN when i saw my mana at 10k, just to remember it does nothing.

TBN can break in any scenario, even in auto attacks, thats where enter the "deep knowledge of fights" part. its a 15 secs CD, you want to use it more than in TBs. If you are using it for TBs and big crowds only, thats poor use of the skill ceiling. Not that it rewards you greatly, thats the issue with the skill, playing skillfull with it dont reward, just avoid penalties.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Gnashing Fang being on a 30s recast doesn't make the job more complex, it makes it less complex. Being on a 30s recast mean that it lines up with all raid buff windows. No Mercy then being on a 60s recast means that it and Gnashing Fang just line up, no adjustment or extra thought required, just use No Mercy with every other Gnashing Fang.

As far as fitting in 1 combo rotation, a GCD DoT and every oGCD available, that is virtually no different to how other tanks try to line-up and fit as much as possible into their bursts. Also with No Mercy's 20s duration you have plenty of time to fit all of that in. At least on PLD you have to fit two DoT combos into FoF, one at the beginning and one at the end, which is discernibly more complex than No Mercy.

IMO, GNB is not this high-skill, complex tank job like some are making it out to be and really appears to be quite the opposite. What it really appears to be is a job intended to get more new players and DPS players to try out tanking. It's a heavy fan-service job with a good deal of pay-off for often less effort than the other tank jobs. The rotation is fairly straight-forward, feeling fast and powerful while remaining pretty simplistic and being similar enough to a lighter version of a DPS rotation that will feel immediately familiar to a player trying to make the switch.

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Gnashing fang being more rigid means you need to use it exactly every 30s or you delay you next no mercy window with in result that can mean a complete desync of trick attacks windows excep you choose to don't use anything until next trick attack with is a dps lose you want it or not, GNB have more harder times to sync his combos ideally that DRK since DRK just throw all his edge on trick without any penalty for holding back stuff.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Gnashing fang being more rigid means you need to use it exactly every 30s or you delay you next no mercy window with in result that can mean a complete desync of trick attacks windows excep you choose to don't use anything until next trick attack with is a dps lose you want it or not, GNB have more harder times to sync his combos ideally that DRK since DRK just throw all his edge on trick without any penalty for holding back stuff.

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You mean like what happens if you don't keep Blood Weapon, Delirium, Inner Release, Infuriate and Requiscat synced up with raid buff windows since all of those are on rigid recasts that are longer than 30s, making them actually more punishing if you mess up their timing?

Additionally, Gnashing Fang isn't really time limited to the extent that the other tank's burst abilities are. The procs to move from one step to the other in Gnashing Fang are very generous as is the case with all combos, meaning if you screw up doing things fast enough or double-weave oGCDs too slowly you may have one ability fall outside a raid buff window. With other burst abilities if you mess that up, you could easily completely lose out on being able to use one of your attacks since the time-frame to fit in the 5th GCD is a fraction of a second.

So no, it is not more complex nor is it more punishing.

GNB has essentially a fixed 30 second rotation that loops with no real resource management (slight variations at 60s and 90s, but they're pretty straightforward). The Continuation combo is incredibly forgiving with the new changes to the combo system, such that you can break off your present combo wherever you like, start Continuation, and reenter where you left off. It's also incredibly forgiving in terms of uptime, because even if something forces you off the boss when it's active, you're not on a strict timer to get everything in unlike Blood Weapon, Delirium, Requiescat, or Inner Release.

That being said, it is fairly engaging because the burst windows are so close together. It's fun, but probably one of the easier jobs that I've played.

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Originally Posted by shao32

Ok now i believe we need to define the word hard, what's harder? GNB is more complex and more harder to play that DRK but that's don't make my argument to GNB is the super hard god level skill level needed, that's are 2 different things.

TBN is not a hard skill or a complex one, it's just a skill that can only being used against TB or a big crow of adds bcs his design limit the effective uses, there is no choice at all, or you use it on those places or you eat the dps lose that's all.



Complexity is equal to more stuff to keep in mind so it's more harder to keep, but again that's depend of what you are comparing GNB, I'm comparing the job with DRK witch is currently with WAR the most easy jobs in the game by far not against BLM or MCH

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I'm comparing GnB to all other tanks and it's easier and less punishing in my opinion. No mercy is free . Heart of stone is free , Aurora is free , nothing cost mp. You do so much dmg by just pressing the same linear combo. It's not more complex than drk I'm sorry. Warrior has to keep storms eye up to even be comparable to the other tanks which is super annoying ,paladin is straight forward but all the defensive cds and even requiscat make it a bit more complex .. Idk man the more I play them and look at all the stuff , the more I see GnB as the "noob friendly tank" it's fun ,fast, easy, nothing punishing , looks cool , and has a dps "like" rotation .

I mean let's be real here guys, as far as offensive rotation goes, none of the tanks are exactly requiring people with Galaxy brains to pilot them.

Going in order of shortest to longest GCD rotation:
Drk- 3 GCD rotation with occasional 4th while using oGCD MP spenders until around 3k MP use skills on CD. Otherwise spam all the oGCDs on CD.
War- 3 GCD rotation with occasional 4th & 5th GCD while making sure to use your oGCD gauge getter at least once b4 but not during your 5th GCD spam.
Gnb- 3 GCD rotation with occasional 4th & 5th GCD plus every 30 sec use a secondary 3 GCD rotation where you will also spam all the oGCDs on CD.
Pld- 3 GCD rotation with occasional 4th, leading into your 5th GCD spam 3 times followed by your 6th GCD spam 5 times. Has the longest and most GCDs but each leads into the next with little variation or question of optimization.

The real challenge of tanking is in doing your CD rotation, and adjusting to what mistakes you or other members of your party make on the fly.

This forum is an echo chamber of DRK hate, you see lots of topics but every single one of them you have the same faces repeating the same complaints.
I share the same vision as you, DRK is the best it has ever been, if anything all it needs is a little tweak on Blood Weapon to be in line with all other 10s window buffs.
Also, to whoever says GNB is a complex job, they just haven't played it enough to understand it. GNB currently has a very static rotation, you have the illusion of choice about ammo, but all you do is save 1 for GF and spam Burst Strike/Fated Circle with the rest. You repeat the same rotation every 30 seconds with every other being a higher burst from Bow Shock and Sonic Break.

Anyone that says DRK isn't a complex rotation is either not playing the job or hasn't maxed the job and played end game content period. Take there opinions with a grain of salt, they are intitled to then but most who talk like that have no real backing behind it at all. Speaking from experience I have cleared both titiania ex and inoccence mutltiple times and I agree with you I love the new playstyle and the people I play with who raid as well really appreciate the changes alot as well. When looking in lvl 80 dungeon play DRK is the tankiest job period even beating PLD with TBN and that not a joke big pulls are a breeze with DRK. You have both mp and blood management which is fun and complex in terms of getting in the right opener for Max DPS. When looking at FFlogs early on you see DRK came last in DPS on the extremes. Looking now you starting to see DRK coming second at the max percentile and third 95th percentile. I believe that because many people playing DRK have started to find that niche opener to maximize the job which is easy to fuck up and people take for granted thinking again that it's "not that complex". I will argue this I have maxed my DRK and working on WAR and PLD now so I won't speak on GNB. WAR to me is simple plays like DRK but for me personally less to manage then DRK but also a timing job like the DRK. One mess up and you will lose on DPS Everytime. PLD So far is alot more forgiving then DRK and WAR in regard to if you mess up a rotation you can still rebound since you have nothing to manage just press you rotation maintain your dots with great utility.

Overall like all the tanks I have played each to me being there own complexity. I will level GNB but like I said before you can tell in comments who has really played the job and who hasn't and if someone tells you DRK is a 123 job nothing more 9.5/10 they don't know what they are talking about. If you love the job love it man you don't need validation from anyone

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

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Actually, people who complaint about the recent iteration of DRK are players who had played/main them since 3.0 HW back in 2015. The DRK back then was the best iteration IMO i have ever played of the job. Now fast forward to 2019 this players have now seen DRK changed for 3 times. I don't know when your experience of DRK started but from what i can see on the current issue is that players who started from stormblood will find shadowbringers DRK more fun but players who started from heavensward will find shadowbringers DRK boring.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

You mean like what happens if you don't keep Blood Weapon, Delirium, Inner Release, Infuriate and Requiscat synced up with raid buff windows since all of those are on rigid recasts that are longer than 30s, making them actually more punishing if you mess up their timing?

Additionally, Gnashing Fang isn't really time limited to the extent that the other tank's burst abilities are. The procs to move from one step to the other in Gnashing Fang are very generous as is the case with all combos, meaning if you screw up doing things fast enough or double-weave oGCDs too slowly you may have one ability fall outside a raid buff window. With other burst abilities if you mess that up, you could easily completely lose out on being able to use one of your attacks since the time-frame to fit in the 5th GCD is a fraction of a second.

So no, it is not more complex nor is it more punishing.

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meaby i explain my self bad, if the boss jump like how innocence tend to do in combat and you was unable to land gnashing fang combo you will instantly lose the entire combo if you don't wanna lose the sync of no mercy with trick attack, thats the point i try to make, keeping no mercy sync with trick attacks depends of how you use gnashing fang bcs you won't use no mercy without gnashing fang, thats means if the fight decide to screw you you have to choose to delay to gnashing fang or literaly unsync all the rest no mercy with trick attack.

DRK only have to worry about sync delirium since blood weapon is kinda meh in terms of burst, the resource generation is to low and have little impact on TA, the burst on TA is more the amount of edges you save during you interminable downtime and fit carve and spit and abyssal drain and Delirium TA yes TA no with is kinda brainless sorry, no mercy is not craizy complex either but you have to constant be careful using the unbuffed gnashing fang to keep the uptime of no mercy on TA properly sync or you are going to create several no mercy rotations on the moment.

all being said all this thing about sync everything to TA is getting pretty annoying at this point, idk why TA still exist to be honest.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

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I would say that claiming people who don't find the Drk or any of the jobs complex don't know what they are talking about is a bit of an over exaggeration. How complex a job is or isn't is subjective to a degree. I would think IMHO that anyone whom has played the job since it's release will not find it complex. I feel this way because IMHO the HW variant of keeping up darkside was much more difficult and as much, if not more, punishing for messing it up. If you could handle Drk then, ShB Drk shouldn't pose a problem.

Now this is not to say that they won't enjoy the job. Take myself for example. When I first started playing it in ShB, I was miserable because I was having a hard time killing my muscle memory and being constantly OOM from treating EoS like DA, but after the first day of playing it and I overcame the muscle memory I quickly started warming up to the changes. I now find myself quite comfortable with them.

That said the only complex part I find in Drk that I don't have with the other tanks is experimenting with where I can fit in TBN outside of busters and still make it pop. The offensive rotation has an ebb and flow from the trying to keep yourself at 3k with spenders but otherwise I don't see it as overly complex.

[QUOTE=Dalmacus;5092938]Actually, people who complaint about the recent iteration of DRK are players who had played/main them since 3.0 HW back in 2015. The DRK back then was the best iteration IMO i have ever played of the job. Now fast forward to 2019 this players have now seen DRK changed for 3 times. I don't know when your experience of DRK started but from what i can see on the current issue is that players who started from stormblood will find shadowbringers DRK more fun but players who started from heavensward will find shadowbringers DRKboring.[ /QUOTE]

This is my favorite generalization. I loved it in HW, disliked it in stormblood, and like/dislike it in shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Actually, people who complaint about the recent iteration of DRK are players who had played/main them since 3.0 HW back in 2015. The DRK back then was the best iteration IMO i have ever played of the job. Now fast forward to 2019 this players have now seen DRK changed for 3 times. I don't know when your experience of DRK started but from what i can see on the current issue is that players who started from stormblood will find shadowbringers DRK more fun but players who started from heavensward will find shadowbringers DRK boring.

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I started with DRK back in HW. The current iteration is more fun than SB could have ever hoped to be. SB made me quit DRK because of the DA spam and just how boring and unfun it made us. The current changes have brought DRK back into fun territory. It'll never be as complex or deliciously fun as it was in HW (I miss those days...), but it's a good enough change to bring me back to the darkness.

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Originally Posted by jetfire117

This is my favorite generalization. I loved it in HW, disliked it in stormblood, and like/dislike it in shadowbringers.

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That makes two of us on HW/SB feelings.

Let's be fair, all the tank jobs are brain dead; They're just varying degrees of brain dead monotony. SE has successfully eradicated the skill ceiling and floor outside of knowing the fight better than the next guy.

Side note: that's prob why DRK will never go back to free-form, pure resource management tank that it started out as. The gap between informed players and those not will be too great. So unga bunga my fellow DRKs.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

Let's be fair, all the tank jobs are brain dead; They're just varying degrees of brain dead monotony. SE has successfully eradicated the skill ceiling and floor outside of knowing the fight better than the next guy.

Side note: that's prob why DRK will never go back to free-form, pure resource management tank that it started out as. The gap between informed players and those not will be too great. So unga bunga my fellow DRKs.

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It would be funny to see everyone's reaction to depleting mana lol

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Originally Posted by shao32

meaby i explain my self bad, if the boss jump like how innocence tend to do in combat and you was unable to land gnashing fang combo you will instantly lose the entire combo if you don't wanna lose the sync of no mercy with trick attack, thats the point i try to make, keeping no mercy sync with trick attacks depends of how you use gnashing fang bcs you won't use no mercy without gnashing fang, thats means if the fight decide to screw you you have to choose to delay to gnashing fang or literaly unsync all the rest no mercy with trick attack.

DRK only have to worry about sync delirium since blood weapon is kinda meh in terms of burst, the resource generation is to low and have little impact on TA, the burst on TA is more the amount of edges you save during you interminable downtime and fit carve and spit and abyssal drain and Delirium TA yes TA no with is kinda brainless sorry, no mercy is not craizy complex either but you have to constant be careful using the unbuffed gnashing fang to keep the uptime of no mercy on TA properly sync or you are going to create several no mercy rotations on the moment.

all being said all this thing about sync everything to TA is getting pretty annoying at this point, idk why TA still exist to be honest.

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If GNB is only more complex than DRK in party compositions where Trick Attack is present and perfectly synced then GNB is definately not more complex than DRK. TA is not that big of a deal anyway, everything is perfectly doable without it and having it does not guarantee an easier run of anything, its just marginally better if perfectly executed.

Complexity could be subjective but if we understand job complexity as stuff you have to monitor and decisions you have to make according to this monitored data then GNB is the most simple of them all. If you mess up the timing of No mercy or gnashing fang then thats it, you messed it up, no complexity there, the only decision left is to keep activating it out of sync or wait for it to be in sync and you have like a whole minute to make this decision, plus GNB cooldowns sync naturally.

So GNB has no management of DoTs, mana or a secondary resource, DRK has all three of these running all the time, plus cooldowns that do not align naturally and as a cherry on top a lower DPS than GNB.

Hell the only scenario where DRK could claim to be using its absolute max DPS is if the user is able to get TBN up (monitor 3000 mana) AND broken every 15 seconds which is already way more complex and requires a ton more knowledge of the enemy patterns than anything the GNB has to do to deal max DPS.

Yeah, 3.x was not for the faint at heart. But man soo rewarding done well. One of the highest skill ceilings on old DRK. they couldnt allow 1 out 4 to have a high skill ceiling and low floor. Let your experienced players go nuts with it!

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

If GNB is only more complex than DRK in party compositions where Trick Attack is present and perfectly synced then GNB is definately not more complex than DRK. TA is not that big of a deal anyway, everything is perfectly doable without it and having it does not guarantee an easier run of anything, its just marginally better if perfectly executed.

Complexity could be subjective but if we understand job complexity as stuff you have to monitor and decisions you have to make according to this monitored data then GNB is the most simple of them all. If you mess up the timing of No mercy or gnashing fang then thats it, you messed it up, no complexity there, the only decision left is to keep activating it out of sync or wait for it to be in sync and you have like a whole minute to make this decision, plus GNB cooldowns sync naturally.

So GNB has no management of DoTs, mana or a secondary resource, DRK has all three of these running all the time, plus cooldowns that do not align naturally and as a cherry on top a lower DPS than GNB.

Hell the only scenario where DRK could claim to be using its absolute max DPS is if the user is able to get TBN up (monitor 3000 mana) AND broken every 15 seconds which is already way more complex and requires a ton more knowledge of the enemy patterns than anything the GNB has to do to deal max DPS.

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on my experience with DRK the huge downtimes, save resources and the low MP generation waiting for delirium and blood weapon leave staring me at the boss to much doing mechanics, and i did both primals with it, play with DRK seems extremly easy to me since i have so little to do until that compared to GNB that i have constantly monitoring my buffs and combos and other GCD stuff, the 123 with just oGCD and random bloodspiller make the job extremly simple it's imposible to me play this and read this is hard sorry.

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Originally Posted by Dalmacus

Actually, people who complaint about the recent iteration of DRK are players who had played/main them since 3.0 HW back in 2015. The DRK back then was the best iteration IMO i have ever played of the job. Now fast forward to 2019 this players have now seen DRK changed for 3 times. I don't know when your experience of DRK started but from what i can see on the current issue is that players who started from stormblood will find shadowbringers DRK more fun but players who started from heavensward will find shadowbringers DRK boring.

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I played DRK since heavensward was and went into Alexander and the trials from Heavensward and the biggest thing I didn't like about that job was that it just was clunky I do miss scourge tho :). Then stormblood DA spam was trash and I got sick and tired of people kicking me from party finder groups just because I was a DRK, not based on my ability to do my job. I had to switch my job to WAR and PLD because that treatment and found a static that didn't care about what job I played so yes I have plenty of DRK experience. I know all the imterations and I say shadowbringers by far is the best DRK of the 3, off course in my opinion.

Also last thing I think we shouldn't over complicate the complex argument. All the tanks are easier and really dumbed down. Remember WAR 3.0, that was a very complex job to me that is. Now the tanks in general are alot more friendly and they dropped the skill ceiling overall and to be honest they had to. Now rating complexity now of the tanks I do believe if your truly optimizing your tank in extremes and soon to be savage I believe DRK and WAR will be the most complex and most punishing if rotations are done poorly. Dungeon content I mean is dungeon content and no job is built for that so if The bosses feel lackluster remember it's dungeon it's not meant to be complex. ( I think amarot is fantastic tho) anyway enjoy savage content when it comes out we will see the state of tanks really concretely then.

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Originally Posted by LegolasT

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Okay, i'm gonna remain skeptic and doubt you on this as i have checked your character and you own neither of any alexander mounts. As a raider that mount is so easy to get if you've been raiding since day 1 of the HW release of alexander so you not having them as badge of proof is a bit strange and suspicious atm.