I think it's pretty obvious that over here in the west we're pretty aggravated over what they've done to healers (I personally hate how they did scholar the way they did) but as is usually the case with Japanese devs, they tend to care much more about how their Japanese fanbase feels rather than their western fanbase, so I'm curious, does anyone know how Japan feels about these changes? Anyone able to translate their forums posts or lack thereof if they haven't been talking about it?
What is the Japanese reaction to healer changes?
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07-22-2019, 12:40 PMBillythepancakeWhat is the Japanese reaction to healer changes?
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07-22-2019, 01:54 PMHatstand
Based on a quick perusal, my high school Japanese, and some google translate magic, there seems to be some upset, although more focused on quality of life changes than over here, and proportionally less about loss of skills. For example, I saw more people complaining about not being able to tell when their fairy was there than about the loss of SCH’s dps kit, although there were complaints about both.
I haven’t looked into what they’re saying about AST yet. -
07-22-2019, 02:14 PMReiryuu
There has been some dissent, yes. I play on a JP data center and I can definitely tell you that while you do see Tank and DPS as needed players on occasion, you often actually have to wait a significant time for a healer sometimes. Healer and tank seem to go off and on as the job in need-- but from the experience I described just previously, I think the "adventurer in need" code/utility/etc. is not always doing its job correctly. So regardless of what they may be saying, there is definitely a lack of people playing them at the moment.
I can only give some examples of my own experinces, but once I locked in Tank adv. in need for leveling roulette, but I was still 15th or so on the list and the queue took a good 10-15 minutes rather than the quick instant - a few minutes adventurer in need usually has for a wait. I think I did alliance as a DPS "in need" and I was like 49th and still had to wait like 20 mins, so... yeah.... *shrug* -
07-22-2019, 02:23 PMMikhaill
JP is our only hope for some change.
They will most likely listen to the homefront better than the rest of us.
All of us combined will make a push. -
07-22-2019, 02:40 PMIscahJust from observing it, I would guess that it handles requests sequentially and looks for tank, then healer, then DPS, while the simple "role in need" setup doesn't allow for the important element of level - something that gets worse as the maximum increases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiryuu
Say the party algorithm handles requests one-by-one, and current top-of-the-pile is a DPS queuing for the Lv79 dungeon.
"Okay, we need a tank. Tank is the adventurer in need!"
...and lots of tanks who are not at Lv79 join the queue. So it keeps asking for a tank until it gets one it can use.
"Now we have a tank, we need a healer. Healer is the adventurer in need!"
And it repeats. And again for DPS if there was only the one player queuing for that dungeon. It doesn't see the growing pile, only the one thing it needs right now.
That's my theory anyway.
Alliance raids and such would have the same problem if they're trying to gather people for a specifically requested Lv70 raid, but people below that level keep queuing instead. -
07-22-2019, 05:30 PMmsoltysplJudging by their polls - very, very bad. So there is some hope for SE giving a bit of a fuck. Still how utterly disconnected (and not only in healer context) SE is from the game and its actual problems (like forced MSQ and its fanbois, beyond utterly boring/meaningless gameplay until one's class is capped or at least 70+, some bugs and issues near decade old, and so on) is mindnumbing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
https://files.catbox.moe/gj0uld.png
blue - hate
red - love
The rest in between. -
07-22-2019, 05:33 PMLetheelSensei
I'm fluent in Japanese and play on a Japanese server.
I'll go ask around next time I go online, but my impression is that there are less healers around (looking at the queues), but the bulk of the criticism seems to be centered on the White Mage being OP while the Astrologian is too weak and too difficult to use.
With Scholar it's like "well, they simplified it, but at least you can play it" (unlike Astro).
Still, I think there's a lot less dissatisfaction than in the west. That there are fewer healers queuing is more likely due to the fact that you have new DPS and Tank Jobs but no new Healer (which has never happened before), with the fact that Astrologian was drastically reworked for the worse also contributing.
Now, when Stormblood launched, I remember it was the scholar changes that pissed everyone off in Japan... and int the West, too, but more so in Japan, I think. -
07-22-2019, 05:34 PMHatstandI’m pretty sure this is a Japanese consolidation of a poll taken of western players.Quote:
Originally Posted by msoltyspl
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07-22-2019, 05:35 PMLetheelSenseiThat poll says it's a survey done on Western gamers, btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by msoltyspl
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07-22-2019, 07:34 PMAlphras
That is a poll from reddit yes.
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07-22-2019, 07:59 PMEaMett
Last time I checked the forums there were a couple of new sch posts going over the same stuff we don’t like. Aka lack of energy drain, fairy being clunky, AoW being expensive, loss of toolkit.
The forum in general has a tendency to only keep posts in consolidated threads so having new threads addressing sch issues seemed like a pretty big deal.
The OF feedback is usually so mild but this time around it looks like a mixed bag so I interpreted that as being telling of a significant displeasure with the situation.
They also often make mention of our dissatisfaction as well (the west). So there’s that. -
07-23-2019, 12:55 AMNimloth
I read through some of the top-rated AST (by likes) and it seems like they largely have the same complaints that we do. Healing potency seems bad, cards are clunky to use, CO and CU are weak with long CDs, Divination's CD is too long. Basically, they seem to be echoing a lot of the criticisms over here. Hopefully, we will see some decent changes to all the healing jobs in 5.05, but AST is in some serious need of some love.
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07-23-2019, 09:31 AMMOZZYSTARI gotta say, if they really do mostly/only consider the remarks of their JP playerbase, it would be nice if they would consider the rest of us considering we're dishing out money just as the JP community is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhaill
Is there a place (like Twitter) that the JP community voice their opinions, or do the forums actually work (for them) in terms of getting their voices heard? -
07-23-2019, 09:47 AMBillythepancakeIn a fair world, that would be the case, but a LOT of Japanese game devs, or really any Japanese company for that matter, only really cares about their Japanese fan base, though SE, from what I hear, does tend to be better about it than most, hence why I'm interested in what the Japanese fans have to say about all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by MOZZYSTAR
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07-23-2019, 10:39 AMRyuDragnierI'm hoping at the very least we'll get the healing potencies buff for AST with the Savage release. As of right now, it's a real struggle to heal as one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimloth
Plus it's a good indicator of possible incoming changes. If the japanese players have the same complaints, it's a sure bet things will be getting changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
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07-23-2019, 11:53 AMEaMettTo be fair there's a language barrier as well. It's pretty easy for any of the design team members, devs, project/product owners/managers to check up on the JP forums in a few minutes. Understanding our English gibberish forum however. So they probably depend way more on some localization teams to pass on our feedback and that is probably done intermittently, in part only, potentially lost, distorted, and eventually passed on to a select few that either acknowledge or ignore it at it's final destination. In other words, we don't and won't be able to weigh in as much as our JP comrades even if they do listen (and they probably do given the game history)Quote:
Originally Posted by Billythepancake
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07-24-2019, 05:40 PMAmurT
Patch is a week away, so I went looking at the JP AST megathread. My Japanese is broken and I had to rely on Google Translate a bit but this comment I think sums up how they feel considering the amount of likes on it.
In short, they talk about how card diversity and extending buffs was one of the high points for them (extending a bunch of regens on the tank having a cathartic feeling). It seems they regarded this aspect of old AST to be a big identity of the job as only AST could extend buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by S-Casca
They also draw a parallel to the new cards being basically the same as DRK Dark Arts spam. Paraphrasing "it's a roundabout way to go about doing something other jobs can achieve with one button. Something that requires all this effort should be rewarding, but in reality it's nothing but stress. Nobody was asking for these changes".
They end it by basically saying whoever is working on AST has no idea what they're doing... el oh el -
07-25-2019, 01:15 AMCeasariaYeah, it's like AST was giving to another designer for this expansion, because there is nothing logical at all in those changes (compared to HW --> SB transition).Quote:
Originally Posted by AmurT
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07-25-2019, 12:27 PMKohakuTribal
I play on Tonberry, the JP server where many English speakers of the region congregate and my Japanese is decent. I think the discontent with healers in ShB is pretty close on both sides of the ocean. AST is wrecked, particularly the cards, SCH lost the healers that liked DPSing but its still very playable, and WHM is sweet. MP is tighter all around and requires more careful management.
I had all three healers at 70 when 5.0 dropped, but AST was my main healer (my FC has a few WHM mains already). But with AST changes I couldn't stomach it. Out of curiosity I have used the Search feature to check the number of online healers many times. WHM usually tops with SCH close behind, and AST is usually half of that. I hate to jump on the bandwagon and just level WHM....but... -
07-25-2019, 02:23 PMAlrin
Its good to see that JP community is unhappy too. We may have chance for more significant changes before next expansion.