Hoping for a slight Abyssal Drain CD reduction.

The increased heal potency is really nice, but I feel like the cooldown is just a little too long at 60sec. I realize that we won\\'t see the dungeon optimization of DA+AD+Quiets anymore, but I feel like a 45sec cooldown would feel so much better.

For something that cost 1/3 of your mana pool and having a 90s cd, its pretty awful. When you do use it, its pretty nice, but are the returns anywhere near the LIFEsustain of old AD?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

For something that cost 1/3 of your mana pool and having a 90s cd, its pretty awful. When you do use it, its pretty nice, but are the returns anywhere near the LIFEsustain of old AD?

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It's 60sec and doesn't require MP.

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Originally Posted by Martine

It's 60sec and doesn't require MP.

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And you want it reduced to what and cost the same?

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

And you want it reduced to what and cost the same?

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I mentioned it in the OP, but I feel like 45 seconds would make it feel a lot better than the current 60 as it feels just a bit too long atm.

I think if the cooldown were much shorter I'd feel compelled to use it for the damage on trash instead of the healing. Right now I'm using it to heal myself up once I hit the wall and all the mobs are catching up to me. That part feels pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Martine

I mentioned it in the OP, but I feel like 45 seconds would make it feel a lot better than the current 60 as it feels just a bit too long atm.

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Yeah Id probably rely on it more if it were off cd sooner, agree.

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Originally Posted by Wyndam

I think if the cooldown were much shorter I'd feel compelled to use it for the damage on trash instead of the healing. Right now I'm using it to heal myself up once I hit the wall and all the mobs are catching up to me. That part feels pretty good.

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YOOOOOOO that 1 use of it in mega pulls is pretty nice...till you realize thats all you got. Esteem should really give us a little hp or something from using his as well, outside of a mega pull, using either seems very, very very very unimpactful, Tend to forget about them otherwise. Such LOOONG CD

With the current design I think they are wanting to keep the tank healing cooldowns on the same timer.

Warrior equilibrium is an immediate 1200 potency heal oGCD with no damage.
Gunbreaker is a 1200 oGCD potency heal over 18s.
Paladin requires either hard casting or using their DPS burst CD to heal which still occupies the GCD.
Dark Knight is the only one with damage associated with it, dealing equal potency healing as Warrior/Gunbreaker at 6 targets.

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Originally Posted by Wyndam

I think if the cooldown were much shorter I'd feel compelled to use it for the damage on trash instead of the healing. Right now I'm using it to heal myself up once I hit the wall and all the mobs are catching up to me. That part feels pretty good.

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Although different than Stormblood, I like that it feels more like a sustain skill rather than damage. I don't really want it to lose that identity which is why I suggested to reduce it a little. I did veru much miss it's power in the last xpac, but I welcome the increased AoE options.

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Originally Posted by Typhoria

With the current design I think they are wanting to keep the tank healing cooldowns on the same timer.

Warrior equilibrium is an immediate 1200 potency heal oGCD with no damage.
Gunbreaker is a 1200 oGCD potency heal over 18s.
Paladin requires either hard casting or using their DPS burst CD to heal which still occupies the GCD.
Dark Knight is the only one with damage associated with it, dealing equal potency healing as Warrior/Gunbreaker at 6 targets.

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It's a good observation, though the downside is that we don't always have 6 targets, so it can fairly often be the weakest of the sustain. WAR, GNB, and PLD heals are all just as capable on bosses.

Edit: I should mention that I'm cool with the others having better boss self heals, I would just like a bit off my previous AoE sustain back.

I don't think that AD necessarily requires a CD reduction, but I think that the healing should be a more consistent effect irrespective of the number of targets.

This may come as a bit of a surprise, but DRK actually seems to have the largest amount of self-sustain in single target. In Titania Ex, for example, Souleater heals alone seem to account for about 10% of the damage that you'd take if you're tanking most of the fight yourself. It's a bit like passive blocks in that it works in the background to reduce overall healing load. This doesn't have the same dramatic effect that burst healing does, though, so it kind of slips under the radar.

I'm not sure how this will scale, though.

It’s been forever that DRKs have asked for AD to be worked out to be as effective in single target as it is in dungeon pulls but it hasn’t happened. I’m not optimistic but you could do other things: I’d take a buff to SE. Something like SE will give a dh crit heal while dark side is active. I wouldn’t think it be game breaking and would make up the difference between effectiveness in the other heals over time. It wouldn’t take an overhaul, just a trait, and wouldn’t change the flow.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't think that AD necessarily requires a CD reduction, but I think that the healing should be a more consistent effect irrespective of the number of targets.

This may come as a bit of a surprise, but DRK actually seems to have the largest amount of self-sustain in single target. In Titania Ex, for example, Souleater heals alone seem to account for about 10% of the damage that you'd take if you're tanking most of the fight yourself. It's a bit like passive blocks in that it works in the background to reduce overall healing load. This doesn't have the same dramatic effect that burst healing does, though, so it kind of slips under the radar.

I'm not sure how this will scale, though.

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Souleater is a nice passive heal and I love that it helps healers some. It's not a passive heal we can utilize in AoE situations where we take tons of burst damage, which is why I was thinking that AD could use a slight CD reduction. Granted, I don't have the other tanks leveled to be able to gauge where DRK is compared to the others' AoE sustain.

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Originally Posted by Danelo

It’s been forever that DRKs have asked for AD to be worked out to be as effective in single target as it is in dungeon pulls but it hasn’t happened. I’m not optimistic but you could do other things: I’d take a buff to SE. Something like SE will give a dh crit heal while dark side is active. I wouldn’t think it be game breaking and would make up the difference between effectiveness in the other heals over time. It wouldn’t take an overhaul, just a trait, and wouldn’t change the flow.

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I'm totally okay with AD being mostly an AoE centric skill, as long as we can count on it when we need it, which is why I feel the current CD is just a little bit too long.

I’m okay with that as well but I’m sure devs won’t since such great effort has been taken to bring AoE in line with the other tanks.

On the other hand, I am nervous about changes that would make DRK a great dungeon tank but could potentially take away from its kit in single target since raiding/single target is generally the focus of this game.

If you compare the potential self-heals of DRK's Soul Eater and Abyssal Drain against WAR's self-heal from Storm's Path and Equilibrium (assuming the WAR is also weaving in Storm's Eye) in a single-target situation over 60s and ignoring FC and BS potentially pushing GCDs, they do end up fairly close with WAR at about 2700 potency of cures and DRK at about 2600 potency of cures, so it's not terrible but WAR does have the edge in it being bursty which means you can concentrate the healing when you need it.

In AoE instances things are a bit more iffy where it is entirely dependent on the size of the mob pack. If over 6 mobs, then AD is better, if less then Equilibrium is better. Also, AD is best used towards the beginning of fighting a wall to wall pull where you will be taking the most damage and there will be the most enemies alive to get the heal from, whereas Equilibrium's effectiveness doesn't fluctuate on when in the fight you use it. So kind of a draw.

I do agree that I would like to see the recast time for Abyssal Drain, along with Carve and Spit, reduced preferably to 30s so that there are more frequent oGCD abilities to weave even if their overall effectiveness remained pretty much the same.

I also agree that there needs to be a change to AD to shift it towards being better in single-target situations, while still keeping it's AoE edge.
In regards to that I am still partial to the suggestion that I made in my thread where I rolled Salted Earth into Abyssal Drain and added a HoT to it.

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Originally Posted by TouchandFeel

Abyssal Drain proposed solutions.
- Recast reduced to 30s instead of 60s.
- Damage potency reduced to 100 from 200.
- Cure potency reduced to 100 from 200.
- Abyssal Drain now also applies a damage over time effect to enemies for 40 potency for 15s (200 potency total per enemy).
- Abyssal Drain now also applies a healing over time effect to self for 40 potency for 15s (200 potency total)(applied on ability use and not per enemy hit).
* In single-target this would equate to 600 potency of damage and cures every 60s vs. the 400pot damage and 200pot cure of current AD + Salted. At 2 enemies it would be 1200pot damage and 800pot healing vs. 800pot damage and 400pot healing. 3 enemies, 1800pot damage and 1000pot healing vs. 1200pot damage and 600pot heal. Basically being a consistent 50% damage and 400 cure potency boost, no matter the # of enemies compared to the current AD and Salted, which tbh are a tad underwhelming as they are and make up very little of DRK's overall dps.

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If that is seen as too much of a boost to DRK's self-healing in single-target, the cure on Soul Eater could be reduced slightly to compensate, for example if the cure potency for Soul Eater was reduced to 250, so just like WAR, that should balance out the 400 cure potency gain from the above suggestion.

P.S. From what I am seeing, WAR is at ~150-200HPS more than DRK on Innocence and Titania EX in most percentiles, which could be chalked up to Nascent Flash. Where is it definitively showing that DRK has the most self-healing?

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Originally Posted by Martine

It's a good observation, though the downside is that we don't always have 6 targets, so it can fairly often be the weakest of the sustain. WAR, GNB, and PLD heals are all just as capable on bosses.

Edit: I should mention that I'm cool with the others having better boss self heals, I would just like a bit off my previous AoE sustain back.

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Question: How well does TBN work vs. Savage / Extreme bosses?

I ask because in dungeons, vs. a small pack or a boss, I find TBN to be incredibly effective, so while AD may not heal for much in these situations, if I use TBN correctly I find that I don't take nearly as much damage to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Acidblood

Question: How well does TBN work vs. Savage / Extreme bosses?

I ask because in dungeons, vs. a small pack or a boss, I find TBN to be incredibly effective, so while AD may not heal for much in these situations, if I use TBN correctly I find that I don't take nearly as much damage to begin with.

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It works really well and when mixed with other damage reduction skills, we have a lot of damage mitigation and TBN's really short cooldown is amazing. My co-tank is a Gunbreaker and when mixed with Heart of Stone's 25sec CD, we have currently a 100k damage shield between the two of us without damage reduction skills.