Please bring back Diversion

No matter what DPS I play am always taking enmity, specially now with dancer and no diversion to lower it. Ive resulting in using the tried and true FFXI way of disengaging and not attacking for a bit.

Is this serious? Aggro has never been a problem for years and this update made tanks instantly get mob aggro forever with their AoE combos. I think I am yet to get enmity in ShB playing as a DNC in a dungeon. o_o

btw.: never used Diversion in the game while it existed too.

That happened to me in one of the Dungeons. Since all enmity reduction skills were removed from the DPS class, it's up to the tanks to maintain aggro.
I'm not a tank, but I think these scenarios should not happen as tanks are now more than capable to increase their on enmity.

I've literally never even come close to losing aggro since early access started. Clearly y'all are getting some bad tanks that still think having their tank stance off will increase their DPS or something. I could sleep through it at this point and no one would be able to take the enemies off me.

Yeah, I'm guessing they didn't have their tank stance on.

I've taken emnity a few times, but this is usually because the MT tank dies, doesn't pick up an add or hasn't got tank stance on.

As annoying as it is, Diversion in these cases would simply pass the boss to another dps or worse, the healer, killing them instead. Which doesn't really benefit the group more. It's up to the tanks to ensure they handle their role.

I got Titan for roulette and, forgetting about sync, forgot to put my tank stance back up. Did not lose aggro once surprisingly.

You don't need diversion. I can tell any dps right now you are not stealing aggro because your doing too much damage. Few scenarios I've seen where this happens there is a clear reason and its almost always the tanks fault.
1. most obvious is no tank stance
2. tank runs into trash and only uses aoe once to grab aggro then for some reason proceeds to single target dps
3. players running ahead of the tank (should still get aggro pretty quickly but please dont run in front of the tank its really annoying to everyone)

I am having issues with tanks not actively using tank stance in a lot of scenarios. Especially as a blm when I just sprint with the rest of the group and not attack until I see the first air from the tank being fired off, tanks still lose aggro. I have been told by a few tanks who said they though tank stance still penalized them so they were not using it. Some tanks are new returnees and it is just a matter of telling them that tank stance is free. That seemed too help me until I had few tanks who proceeded to tell me that I don't know what I am talking about even after reading the patch notes.

Tanks, ignoring tank stance: "But muh DPS!!"
Rest of the party: *dying*

That actually happened in the 75lvl dungeon against the last boss. Had a paladin who thought he could not use tank stance. Healer went too heal right after the tank buster and party wide busters, healer took aggro, use lucid and still got one shot. Needless too say, it was pretty funny seeing how we were all torn too shreds lol

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I've literally never even come close to losing aggro since early access started. Clearly y'all are getting some bad tanks that still think having their tank stance off will increase their DPS or something. I could sleep through it at this point and no one would be able to take the enemies off me.

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I've been getting aggro in packs as Dancer, from tanks that do have tank stance on ;-;

Not sure what they were doing TBH.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

Tanks, ignoring tank stance: "But muh DPS!!"
Rest of the party: *dying*

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It's not even connected to tank stance anymore lol
Moreover, starting this expac less aggro=less DPS.

Is that really an indication though? I mean, I thought that we could just ask our PC friends for help using their magical items to know your own dps range values.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

It's not even connected to tank stance anymore lol
Moreover, starting this expac less aggro=less DPS.

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Well yes, I know that, and you know that. The question is do the offending tanks know that?

Not much to say here except that you had some bad luck with tanks. Holding aggro now as a tank is not even something to think about, it just happens automatically if you do your job. Try as you might you will never pull aggro from a tank that plays their job correctly.

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Originally Posted by Thela

Not much to say here except that you had some bad luck with tanks. Holding aggro now as a tank is not even something to think about, it just happens automatically if you do your job. Try as you might you will never pull aggro from a tank that plays their job correctly.

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I'm leveling a tank right now and unless someone decides to be a dumb and unload everything during a multi-pull in a dungeon (after I only tapped it once) then, yeah, losing agro is outright impossible. The tank stance threat modifier is insane.

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Originally Posted by Marianno

That actually happened in the 75lvl dungeon against the last boss. Had a paladin who thought he could not use tank stance. Healer went too heal right after the tank buster and party wide busters, healer took aggro, use lucid and still got one shot. Needless too say, it was pretty funny seeing how we were all torn too shreds lol

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Lucid doesn't cut enmity anymore.

how exactly you lose aggro as tank in this new rework? when i play as tank i never see even once my party aggro reach half of mine, from start to finish they either stay at 1% or 20% of the bar.

just get in, spam aoe combo nonstop, done. boss, press everything that is not aoe, done. tank aggro is ridiculous now, a dps accidentally get aggro, i test with auto attack and his aggro went from 100% to 20%ish.... with my auto attack, not a skill.

I love how everyone is bringing up dungeons. Ya, there are a few times I have gotten agro, but it's really trials that makes me really wish I had diversion. When the mt dies and I have the boss and the ot struggles to get it from me it would just be nice for me to be able to assist and give the ot the boss soundly. Sure, in some instances the tank is bad, but I can think of other situations where it would have helped to have some agro mitigation. For instance, I often see healers higher up in agro chain. When a tank dies I've seen them die pretty quickly bc the ot was too slow to take the mob. Titania and her dps check being a good example where mobs are spread out around the arena making a tank death a problem. If se's plan is to make tanks be able to keep agro easily, I don't see what the big deal is in letting dps/healers have a button to assist and get the mob off of us.

But that is just my opinion. I was never against popping agro mitigation skills like so many people have been. Dungeons it should never be a problem but in a raid situation is where I see this problem occurring very often.

tl;dr but in my opinion a much more regrettable change isn't the loss of diversion but the loss of enmity dumps and Ultimatum.

Before, if your tank died, they could run back and ultimatum the mobs and then party members could dump and everything was generally ok, now if the tank dies there is basically a 99.9% chance of wipe.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

I've been getting aggro in packs as Dancer, from tanks that do have tank stance on ;-;

Not sure what they were doing TBH.

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Same during AoE on WHM. I've seen the tank lose enmity to RDMs, DNCs, SMNs, and BLMs, as well during large pack pulls. I suspect it's because the tanks aren't quite reaching the mobs on the far end of the crowd with their AoEs during wall-to-wall pulls.

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I have the boss and the ot struggles to get it from me

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iam not expert but what happen to the good old provoke + whatever skill now that get you highest enmity? the provoke should literally bring OT aggro to the top no matter how low he is.

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I've been getting aggro in packs as Dancer, from tanks that do have tank stance on ;-;

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sometimes i see tank went into the mob and only do aoe enmity once then continue to single target the enemy. since dancer skill is aoe (and a big one too) i think its possible to steal other enemy aggro especially tank only doing aoe enmity once, just because the aggro is ridiculous now doesnt mean you can just do aoe enmity once and leave it like that.

my friend BLM doing this a lot of time, especially when he do 3 flare + 1 foul

honestly dont think tanks need the tank stance for threat.
just being the 1st to hit the mob seems to be enough to hold hate.

in 3 different groups, forgot to put tank stance on, and went multiple pulls before i realized it wasnt on.
didnt even come close to losing threat. (I was also SEVERELY messing up my damage too, since i kept pushing buttons from SB, that dont actually do anything now.)

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

I've been getting aggro in packs as Dancer, from tanks that do have tank stance on ;-;

Not sure what they were doing TBH.

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Basically not AoEing. Even trust Tancred doesn't lose aggro to me in dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Taikugemu

Basically not AoEing. Even trust Tancred doesn't lose aggro to me in dungeons.

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Yes but trusts also perform mechanics properly. Or so I hear. I'll be sure to let you know if Urianger starts exclaiming "mechanics are for cars" and blaming the DPSes for taking too much damage in unavoidable mechanics when he fails a healer check next time I try out a trust dungeon. X'D

Don't need diversion. It felt crap to use anyway.

Tanks basically het auto aggro just by touching a mob now. Don't need it.

If tank lost hate it's because they forgot their stance, or just not spreading out their hits amongst the mobs well enough