WHY THO? - Glamour Log

Hey remember that thing everyone wanted for a glamour dresser?

HERE IT IS. EXCEPT, FOR HOUSING.

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/...920&height=518

Then all you would need is that little tick to show if you've owned the item before, just like the gathering log. Then you could add it to Plates from there.

https://i.imgur.com/1aKExIC.png

I just want a better glamour system.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8YutMatqkTfSE/giphy.gif

It's the difference between a system that went through a design process and was fully fleshed out before any code was written, and the glamour system.

I would be happy with just the plates being applied any time I changed my job no matter where I am in the world

Why? Money...

It's possible the housing system has different underlying programming that makes it possible to add this in, while the glamour system is built differently and is harder to implement.

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Originally Posted by LiteBrite

Why? Money...

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Honestly, I have high doubts that this is about money, that buying retainer space. If they want purchases from mog all they gotta do is put shiny dresses in, you know? I think this is about a bad system, they've already implemented and feel like they have to stick with, spaghetti code and resources. At the moment your character carries so much data, it's ridiculous. I have no idea why they don't just move it to a central system.

So, like everything else I guess but MAN that slap in the face getting it with the housing stuff instead.

If they have to disable current Glamour dresser for a time to give us a system like this, I am TOTALLY OK WITH THAT.

Doesn't this housing preview just preview everything? It doesn't check every item you've previously ever owned, I think. To have a glamour log of every single item you've owned would take a lot more info. Though I still think it's worth doing some how (WoW has nearly every item tracked account wide for example).

I had thought they might perhaps utalize on a grander scale a system they've used before in FFXI with set storage, but rather you collect a number of items from a content and then you've unlocked that whole content for glamour. In that way logging 30 items becomes more like logging 1. All the weapons and armor turn into "eeeyy you unlocked the vault, gj - all that glamour is yours now". Pros and cons obviously.. I tried to write more about that here (the Crystal Forge / Library).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Doesn't this housing preview just preview everything? It doesn't check if you've owned it before, I think. To have a glamour log of every single item you've owned would take a lot more info. Though I still think it's worth doing some how (WoW has nearly every item tracked account wide for example).
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They have the exact system already in place with the crafting, gathering, sightseeing, flight, duty logs. Just that tick. Has this character made/gatherered/unlocked this before? yes/no. Tick, no tick. It is a TINY amount of info. If yes, they could make it so you can order it in via mog mail or something to apply it to a plate then just delete the item.

God, it would free up so much server strain.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

They have the exact system already in place with the crafting, gathering, sightseeing, flight, duty logs. Just that tick. Has this character made/gatherered/unlocked this before? yes/no. Tick, no tick. It is a TINY amount of info. If yes, they could make it so you can order it in via mog mail or something to apply it to a plate then just delete the item.

God, it would free up so much server strain.

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I don't think it would take away server strain at all.. I think it would add a lot more strain. Not everyone crafts but if the game is tracking what you've obtained of every single item in the game (which is a lot more than what crafting offers too)..

I'm not saying it isn't cool, or not worth it, or impossible (WoW has something like it), but I think you're making it sound easier than it is too lol. I mean just as an example they're afraid of exploding the servers with glamour dressers being accessed by multiple people and that's only (lol) 200 items (400 soon). 400 items is a lot lower than the total items in the game that have visuals.

Just to reiterate, am not saying "don't add it" lol I just find it unlikely they've been sitting on the holy grail the entire time and not wanting to use it :p.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I don't think it would take away server strain at all.. I think it would add a lot more strain. Not everyone crafts but if the game is tracking what you've obtained of every single item in the game (which is a lot more than what crafting offers too)..

I'm not saying it isn't cool, or not worth it, or impossible, but I think you're making it sound easier than it is too lol.

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How is a yes/no tick a server strain? That is a minuscule amount of data. It's not copying every single item to each character, nor are the other logs.

Server strain is giving each person 400 items slots they can only open in a city because on top of the 9 retainers + chocobo bag in the overworld + inventory and armory that gets copied, along with your character, into every instance you go into, moving a that 400 slot glamour dresser into housing would blow up everything. The current glamour dresser isn't a system at all. It's just a retainer :/

I believe a dev literally said as much. They cannot move the dresser at the moment because of the immense amount of data every character carries in items.

A system like they've made for housing, just draws off a central database with a preview thumbnail. The characters aren't holding all those housing items, just like they're not holding every single gathering mat you've ever collected.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

How is a yes/no tick a server strain? That is a minuscule amount of data. It's not copying every single item to each character, nor are the other logs.

Server strain is giving each person 400 items slots they can only open in a city because on top of the 9 retainers + chocobo bag in the overworld + inventory and armory that gets copied, along with your character, into every instance you go into, moving a that 400 slot glamour dresser into housing would blow up everything.

I believe a dev literally said as much. They cannot move the dresser at the moment because of the immense amount of data every character carries in items.

A system like they've made for housing, just draws off a central database with a preview thumbnail. The characters aren't holding all those housing items.

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Many thousands of items, with a yes no might be an issue. IIRC Blizzard had to assign an entire team to developing their transmog (glamour) system. Especially when it wasn't a thing previously. You said it would save space but 400 vs thousands of yes nos.. I'm not sure how that saves strain.

Also if the preview system, if it's just a log of every housing item in the game, is quite different then since it's just telling the game to load models stored locally (server doesn't care, nothing would be stored).

Again just in case someone skips my other post, I'm not arguing the system isn't a good idea or cool (I want a complete glamour log lol).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Many thousands of items, with a yes no might be an issue. Especially when it wasn't a thing previously. You said it would save space but 400 vs thousands of yes nos.. I'm not sure how that saves strain.

Also if the preview system, if it's just a log of every housing item in the game, is quite different then since it's just telling the game to load models stored locally (server doesn't care, nothing would be stored).

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Mate, a yes/no function is the most basic of all functions. It's a 1 or a 0. It doesn't matter how many items or people there are. It's not a strain, its not a mass amount of data. Any developer will tell you the same. Storing items on each character is a strain. Which is why, as I've mentioned, they can only allow the dresser in the Inn.

Truthfully, even in the system, I'm proposing, this would also not be able to be accessed anywhere. It would need to stay in the Inn as well, probably,. The housing system they're showing is only able to be accessed with in housing.

With the preview system you've just mentioned if we can have that for housing, then why not glamour?

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Mate, a yes/no function is the most basic of all functions. It's a 1 or a 0. It doesn't matter how many items or people there are. It's not a strain, its not a mass amount of data. Any developer will tell you the same. Storing items on each character is a strain. Which is why, as I've mentioned, they can only allow the dresser in the Inn.

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Will look forward to our glamour log in Shadowbringers then ;).

I think we're going to get no where, since you're making it sound like c++ 101 and SE be done but I don't believe our devs are sitting on such a simple solution and going "hahahahaha we made it 400, we could make it a million but LOL we wont". I could be wrong though :D.

Also as an aside I've taken quite a few computer programming classes, I know what a boolean is lol (not any classes really in server / massive data management though).

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Originally Posted by Rockette

With the preview system you've just mentioned if we can have that for housing, then why not glamour?

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Well if you want a preview of every item but not an actual storage of every item then yeah that'd be all local so sure why not, they could probably do it~ But it probably becomes a bit different when it's thousands of yes and nos to be stored and passed for every player in the game.

That said if you can make it done for them then please go do it, I'd love the log man lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Will look forward to our glamour log in Shadowbringers then ;).

I think we're going to get no where, since you're making it sound like c++ 101 and SE be done but I don't believe our devs are sitting on such a simple solution and going "hahahahaha we made it 400, we could make it a million but LOL we wont. I could be wrong though :D.

Also as an aside I've taken quite a few computer programming classes, I know what a boolean is lol.



Well if you want a preview of every item but not an actual storage of every item then yeah that'd be all local so sure why not lol. But it probably becomes a bit different when it's thousands of yes and nos to be stored and passed for every player in the game.

That said if you can make it done for them then please go do it, I'd love the log man lol.

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A glamour wardrobe system where you can try on any outfit in the game that you don't own has already been made. You can even try on the things that are gender locked. It's 3rd party so obviously, I can't link it and it's against the TOS. But it furthers the question, if someone else can do it...

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Originally Posted by Rockette

A glamour wardrobe system where you can try on any outfit in the game that you don't own has already been made. if someone else can do it...

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I think maybe I misunderstood you, I thought you meant take our 400 items and make it 5000 or whatever our current amount is of items. If you just want a UI that lets you look at gear then I imagine that's within their means with little to no server cost (just development time cost) if they felt like doing it.

I assumed you were talking about something like WoW has where its like our glamour dresser (sometimes called log) but it holds thousands of items and took Blizzard quite the dev power to make.

I'd love the second one lol, but being able to just check out gear could be fun too. Either way I'm not opposed to this thread lol. Good luck to us :D.

I've not played WoW but I've heard that and the Guild Wars glamour system are really good.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

I've not played WoW but I've heard that and the Guild Wars glamour system are really good.

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They do :). A very neat thing Guild Wars 2 does is all your dye is permanent and many items have multiple dye spots (some have four iirc, so like the trim could be different than the buttons different to the core). I'd love that lol.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

They do :). A very neat thing they have also is all your dye is permanent and many items have multiple dye spots (some have four iirc, so like the trim could be different than the buttons different to the core).

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https://i.imgur.com/1aKExIC.png

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Just to reiterate, am not saying "don't add it" lol I just find it unlikely they've been sitting on the holy grail the entire time and not wanting to use it :p.

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That's my interpretation of it too. If there are better, simpler ways to make a system, why make it complicated? Most likely because the simple version actually can't be implemented for some reason.

There are clearly better ways to structure a glamour system if you were building it from scratch, but they've implemented it on top of pre-existing code (if I understand correctly, glamour as a whole was introduced in ARR or later) and the dresser has been built to work on top of that - and has clearly been designed to work around the basic glamour system without affecting how that system works.

It seems more likely to be the best way they could find to make the system work with awkward prerequisites, than to be what they would like to implement if they had free rein to build it however they liked.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That's my interpretation of it too.
It seems more likely to be the best way they could find to make the system work with awkward prerequisites, than to be what they would like to implement if they had free rein to build it however they liked.

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I think the existing glamour system is the solution to the plates. The biggest thing people were complaining about was the inability to glamour a black mage from a summoner, etc. Adding a retainer with plate powers was a quick fix.

Here, we can see with the housing system, what a fleshed out and well designed system could have been.

For clarity, I'm not saying that a glamour system is as easy as 1,2,3 tada, a rabbit out of a hat. But, showing this example makes me think they could do it.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Honestly, I have high doubts that this is about money, that buying retainer space. If they want purchases from mog all they gotta do is put shiny dresses in, you know? I think this is about a bad system, they've already implemented and feel like they have to stick with, spaghetti code and resources. At the moment your character carries so much data, it's ridiculous. I have no idea why they don't just move it to a central system.

So, like everything else I guess but MAN that slap in the face getting it with the housing stuff instead.

If they have to disable current Glamour dresser for a time to give us a system like this, I am TOTALLY OK WITH THAT.

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That's what I'm saying. They didn't want to put enough resources into the bad system to make it a good system.

Well this sums up how I feel

https://66.media.tumblr.com/e2a8a215...sldho2_250.gif

I mean... a database with all the necessary glamour items would be at least 10x bigger than the one for housing even without counting having to load for each race and gender , but sure, it's exactly portable. 9__9

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I mean... a database with all the necessary glamour items would be at least 10x bigger than the one for housing even without counting having to load for each race and gender , but sure, it's exactly portable. 9__9

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I think the complaint may have more to do with the fact that not everyone can actually get a house and something that many wanted are only available for a select number.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I think the complaint may have more to do with the fact that not everyone can actually get a house and something that many wanted are only available for a select number.

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It doesn't matter if you're a raider, a casual, pvp, RPer.

Glamour is the true end game. I think everyone agrees on that.

The sets in this game is are so beautiful. It's such a shame they're all behind such a limited, bulky system.

Glamour is not the end game. It may be YOUR end game. I find it amusing you think because they created one system for furniture it would be very easy to apply this to the glamour system as well. Stick to your day job OP.

Just copy the WoW system. All gear that's been bound to you (Can't be traded to other players) is added to the "dresser" and can be used to build "plates" No need to visit a dresser, all features are available anywhere. Even if the gear has been deleted, vendored, or broken down, it's appearance is still available.

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Originally Posted by SamSmoot

Just copy the WoW system. All dear that's been bound to you (Can't be traded to other players) is added to the "dresser" and can be used to build "plates" No need to visit a dresser, all features are available anywhere. Even if the gear has been deleted, vendored, or broken down, it's appearance is still available.

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Even if they did abide by your request do you realize this would require a lot of development time? Are you ok with losing a few dungeons or perhaps an ultimate for your glamour system? As an expansion is about to drop this development team has no time whatsoever to make changes to the current systems. They need to focus on the smoothest launch possible and continue to pump out content every 3 months. There is no mmo available that releases quality content that often.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I think the complaint may have more to do with the fact that not everyone can actually get a house and something that many wanted are only available for a select number.

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....The new system has literally nothing to do with owning a house. You don't have to own one to use that system. And FC rooms and apartments are a thing so that's not even a good argument.

People have also been wanting a furniture preview system since housing first came out and I want to say back when they allowed us to dye things they were having trouble figuring out how to allow it with how at least the outside parts of housing wards work.

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Originally Posted by Reap00

Even if they did abide by your request do you realize this would require a lot of development time? Are you ok with losing a few dungeons or perhaps an ultimate for your glamour system? As an expansion is about to drop this development team has no time whatsoever to make changes to the current systems. They need to focus on the smoothest launch possible and continue to pump out content every 3 months. There is no mmo available that releases quality content that often.

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WoW's system was introduced with an expansion. It was rolled in to the development budget for the expansion. FFXIV's needs no less. The entire glamour system is hot garbage and needs to be redesigned from the ground up.

I was so confused when they showed this. What was wrong with just a 360 rotation gif of items when you mouse over? You could use the MB for this. Why use all those ressources towards this feature. So odd.

Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's possible the housing system has different underlying programming that makes it possible to add this in, while the glamour system is built differently and is harder to implement.

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This is likely why. Housing was added later and is it's own thing. I'm guessing it's not as intimately linked with your inventory as Gear is. There is no reason for the game to query if you have something in your house other than a mini aetheryte in relation to your character. Housing has it's own separate storage too. This is the difference between them working on something they have built, as opposed to something they have to build upon.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

Mate, a yes/no function is the most basic of all functions. It's a 1 or a 0. It doesn't matter how many items or people there are. It's not a strain, its not a mass amount of data. Any developer will tell you the same. Storing items on each character is a strain. Which is why, as I've mentioned, they can only allow the dresser in the Inn.

Truthfully, even in the system, I'm proposing, this would also not be able to be accessed anywhere. It would need to stay in the Inn as well, probably,. The housing system they're showing is only able to be accessed with in housing.

With the preview system you've just mentioned if we can have that for housing, then why not glamour?

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Not to mention that they can compress an entire set, or even an entire tier of equipment for that single bit. The most strenuous part would would just be the initial check to confirm if you have all said items in possession before flipping that bit...

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Originally Posted by Callinon

WoW's system was introduced with an expansion. It was rolled in to the development budget for the expansion. FFXIV's needs no less. The entire glamour system is hot garbage and needs to be redesigned from the ground up.

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unfortunately the difference here is that xiv is built on frankenstein spaghetti code and it would more than likely require a rewrite of all of the gear and glamour code

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

unfortunately the difference here is that xiv is built on frankenstein spaghetti code and it would more than likely require a rewrite of all of the gear and glamour code

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And WoW wasn't?!? WoW's devs stated very clearly that they couldn't expand the basic backpack because of the risk it would break their entire database due to spaghetti code... What did they do? They managed to expand the basic backpack.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

And WoW wasn't?!? WoW's devs stated very clearly that they couldn't expand the basic backpack because of the risk it would break their entire database due to spaghetti code... What did they do? They managed to expand the basic backpack.

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They've barely done that and even hinted that adding a couple extra slots in the backpack is something they could do without risking any damage. And they've only expanded it by a few slots. So they haven't even really done anything about backpack space.

Let's also note that WoW's transmog system is worse than FFXIV. You have to pay every time you get a new piece of gear. We, at least, have glamour plates.

I would prefer to see an appearance feature like EQ2's (they're also one of the first, if not THE first MMOs to do an appearance feature). It's insanely good.

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Originally Posted by grinkdaboy

unfortunately the difference here is that xiv is built on frankenstein spaghetti code and it would more than likely require a rewrite of all of the gear and glamour code

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Not a good enough excuse. Also World of Warcraft is built on the Warcraft 3 engine. A piece of software written in the time before man walked upright. I don't buy it.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

They've barely done that and even hinted that adding a couple extra slots in the backpack is something they could do without risking any damage. And they've only expanded it by a few slots. So they haven't even really done anything about backpack space.

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What they expanded was the static inventory, which most likely were hardcoded to be a size of 16... When something is hard coded it won't be something as simple as changing a value from 16 to 20. They had to go through every little thing that would access the inventory to ensure that nothing breaks or ends up where it shouldn't be. The difficulty to simply add 4 inventory slots would have been equal if not worse to implement than the inventory expansion we got in FFXIV, and considering wows age, it was definitely worse.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

Let's also note that WoW's transmog system is worse than FFXIV. You have to pay every time you get a new piece of gear. We, at least, have glamour plates.

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Anything not tied to glamour plates still costs prisims.

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Originally Posted by CazzT

I would prefer to see an appearance feature like EQ2's (they're also one of the first, if not THE first MMOs to do an appearance feature). It's insanely good.

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And i would very much see an appearance system similar to WoW, GW2 and ESO where once you got a skin unlocked, you got it unlocked permanently. Think even Rift and LotrO got a similar system...