SE the majority of healers want damage abilities

I have been playing since 2.0 I mostly use all healers and all tanks and use dps class here and there, I have all Jobs at 70. I used to run dungeons all the time help people who are struggling, but I recently stop when the new user agreement threatens people who help others. Ran into a person who threaten to report me since I told him he could use certain abilities as a BLM to increase damage for crowd control. After that I just stop running and helping people on roulettes, now I just run the top two roulettes, once I see people struggling with dpsing, I now focus on dpsing more and healing less. When we have down time and we see struggle, we just want to help speed things up, we are not asking to be top DPS. We just want a rotation that gives us a satisfying bust of damage, you gave it to the white Mage, and we appreciate that, just give it to the other two. I’m tired of this healer war, you finally made all tanks equal to what their job is MT, the dps part is up to the individual, just spread the love to healers.

SCH is a simple fix add “Shadow Flare” back and buff it just alittle and since its on a 60sec CD add an additional effect that makes the next “Art of War” potetnecy double when placed, also add back “Miasma II” with adjusted damage to Shadowbringers.
AST bring back “Stella” give it the charged state, with three charges recast 50 sec with a potency of 300 single target. I always love this animation, felt kinda sad when it went away.
WHM bring back “Aero III” and “Stone IV” make “Fluid Aura” back to its 2.0 days, I feel like if you have a cool animation don’t drop it, just keep it. we have two new cool animation that you can chained the roman numerals too.

Like I said we don’t want to be top dps, but we surely don’t want to be bored when it comes to solo content, i.e. trust system, Squadrons, and leveling when no one is around.

You dont actually know what the majority of healer players want. Hint: this forum and reddit arent the majority. So speak for yourself instead.

I'm one of the healers that wished to spend more time actually healing in content as 90% downtime is/was ridiculous. That being said I partially agree with you. I said I wanted to spend less time DPSing, not have less skills to do so. This is something that flew right over the heads of the dev team at SE.

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Originally Posted by kobe-sabi

We just want a rotation that gives us a satisfying bust of damage, you gave it to the white Mage, and we appreciate that, just give it to the other two.
SCH is a simple fix add “Shadow Flare” back and buff it just alittle and since its on a 60sec CD add an additional effect that makes the next “Art of War” potetnecy double when placed, also add back “Miasma II” with adjusted damage to Shadowbringers.
AST bring back “Stella” give it the charged state, with three charges recast 50 sec with a potency of 300 single target. I always love this animation, felt kinda sad when it went away.
WHM bring back “Aero III” and “Stone IV” make “Fluid Aura” back to its 2.0 days, I feel like if you have a cool animation don’t drop it, just keep it. we have two new cool animation that you can chained the roman numerals too.

Like I said we don’t want to be top dps, but we surely don’t want to be bored when it comes to solo content, i.e. trust system, Squadrons, and leveling when no one is around.

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Wait. Did I miss something? Where does WHM get a 'satisfying bust of damage'? WHM DPS rotation is as bland as ever, even blander now that Aero III got rolled into Dia, or do you really think a rotation of Dia + Assize - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Dia - etc.; or Holy + Assize - Holy - Holy - Holy - Holy etc. is so much more fun than what other healers have? Because how little I have to use my GCD heals right now, I doubt the Afflatus-spells will see all that much use, plus, Misery is a DPS loss.

And while I support the return of certain skills, You got to make it equal. That has to be carefully weighed against each other, and I'm not sure your suggestion does that. Also, bringing back Stone IV is really pointless, since it's just a weaker nuke of Glare; it doesn't make sense to bring it back. The only way it would make sense would be to make it instant, so WHM finally get some real damage while moving.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm one of the healers that wished to spend more time actually healing in content as 90% downtime is/was ridiculous. That being said I partially agree with you. I said I wanted to spend less time DPSing, not have less skills to do so. This is something that flew right over the heads of the dev team at SE.

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I think that's the point, you may want to dps more or less but whatever you do you should have interesting/fun tools. With this changes dpsing as healer is not going to be interesting/fun at all and seeing how much healing oGCDs we will have, we are going to spam that dps button a lot which will make the job less fun in general terms, and lets not talk about stupid things like eliminate energy drain, You want me to overheal with lustrate to fill the fairy gauge SE?

You dont actually know what the majority of healer players want. Hint: this forum and reddit arent the majority. So speak for yourself instead.

I'm happy with the changes can't wait for shadowbringers.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

You dont actually know what the majority of healer players want. Hint: this forum and reddit arent the majority. So speak for yourself instead.

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So you want to 1,2,2,2,2,2, reapply dot, back to 2? Thats boring, no one wants to do 1,2,1,2, why do you think we have so many spells, if they tried this with Tanks people would quit tanking if they could only tank with Cooldown to mitigate damage.

By fixing healers it seems they meant to spay and neuter them, guess they had too much energy.
Kinda baffling to me they don't at least get half of the amount of dps skills of tanks.
I understand that the devs want healers to heal more but these changes come off as way too heavy handed IMO.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm one of the healers that wished to spend more time actually healing in content as 90% downtime is/was ridiculous. That being said I partially agree with you. I said I wanted to spend less time DPSing, not have less skills to do so. This is something that flew right over the heads of the dev team at SE.

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Same tbh; I can dislike the current XIV healing design while still acknowledging that simply bongo-blasting DPS rotations into the dirt isn't the solution by a long shot.

Green DPS :pensive:

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Wait. Did I miss something? Where does WHM get a 'satisfying bust of damage'? WHM DPS rotation is as bland as ever, even blander now that Aero III got rolled into Dia, or do you really think a rotation of Dia + Assize - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Glare - Dia - etc.; or Holy + Assize - Holy - Holy - Holy - Holy etc. is so much more fun than what other healers have? Because how little I have to use my GCD heals right now, I doubt the Afflatus-spells will see all that much use, plus, Misery is a DPS loss.

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Thin Air plus casting any offinsive spell, or Holy, Holy, Assize, Holy, Holy is always more satisfying. I believe the Story Dungeon will require GCDs usage and we will see those Afflatus spells in action because
A. we are all new and incoming damage will force our hands
B. 10k mp best believe im using GCDs to save some mp
C. we dont know how others play.
But after we are geared, melded and playing with others we know GCDs usage might drop, unless people use the Trust System more, but why use it? this is a MMO

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Originally Posted by kobe-sabi

A. we are all new and incoming damage will force our hands

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It took until 57 in HW and 65 in SB for dungeons to actually start being any sort of dangerous. We can hope it's harder, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Because how little I have to use my GCD heals right now, I doubt the Afflatus-spells will see all that much use, plus, Misery is a DPS loss.

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Right now we actually have no idea how much we will need GCD heals in ShB. Whatever it is, Afflatus spells don't cost MP and are instant; I'd start planning on using them if you are not already. Also, please explain how Misery is a DPS loss. I really want to hear your reasoning behind how a 900 potency offensive skill available every 90s is a loss to pDPS.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Right now we actually have no idea how much we will need GCD heals in ShB. Whatever it is, Afflatus spells don't cost MP and are instant; I'd start planning on using them if you are not already. Also, please explain how Misery is a DPS loss. I really want to hear your reasoning behind how a 900 potency offensive skill available every 90s is a loss to pDPS.

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In a vacuum, you are giving up 3 300 potency attacks on healing for a 900 potency attack on your fourth GCD. Just using...Whatever the new attack is 4 times in a row is 1200 potency.

While I was a bit apprehensive about posting in this thread because I don't really want to boost the OP's unrelated terms of service rant, I do want to add that I would also really like an even slightly more interesting set of damaging abilities. It doesn't have to be much, just something to break the 2 button monotony when soloing or during healing downtime. Going through story as a healer is really painful sometimes. Not because of the speed, but because I basically hit 2 buttons for most of the fights.

I don't think downtime will be eliminated from group content either (especially older content) and nor should it be. I am all for a little more challenge when healing some content, but some amount of downtime is good. There has to be some baseline of skill required to beat content, but exceeding that skill in the healing dept. only really rewards in downtime. Dealing damage in the downtime allows for a difference between the more and less effective healers to shine instead of there just being a skill cliff and plateau.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

In a vacuum, you are giving up 3 300 potency attacks on healing for a 900 potency attack on your fourth GCD. Just using...Whatever the new attack is 4 times in a row is 1200 potency.

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Makes sense, from strictly an optimal DPS GCD perspective in a scenario where healing is not required. Another perspective I have is Misery makes up for the three GCDs you just spent on healing. Obviously, we are going to still use GCDs for damage if healing isn't needed. However, if GCDs must be spent on healing, Solace and Rapture are your go-to's before resorting to Cure 2 and Medica. The scenario you provided is also ST, and Misery is AoE. We can't just look at savage when it comes to the effectiveness of abilities.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Makes sense, from strictly an optimal DPS GCD perspective in a scenario where healing is not required. Another perspective I have is Misery makes up for the three GCDs you just spent on healing. Obviously, we are going to still use GCDs for damage if healing isn't needed. However, if GCDs must be spent on healing, Solace and Rapture are your go-to's before resorting to Cure 2 and Medica. The scenario you provided is also ST, and Misery is AoE. We can't just look at savage when it comes to the effectiveness of abilities.

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That's why I said in a vacuum, to be fair. To me, it feels more like something returned for having to GCD heal.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Haha, when my healers told me it was a loss I said "but you can't use EVERY gcd on attack spells" to which they both replied "actually yes you can"

So I gave up lol

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I mean, if we are lucky, you are right, but...

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Makes sense, from strictly an optimal DPS GCD perspective in a scenario where healing is not required. Another perspective I have is Misery makes up for the three GCDs you just spent on healing. Obviously, we are going to still use GCDs for damage if healing isn't needed. However, if GCDs must be spent on healing, Solace and Rapture are your go-to's before resorting to Cure 2 and Medica. The scenario you provided is also ST, and Misery is AoE. We can't just look at savage when it comes to the effectiveness of abilities.

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Haha, when my healers told me it was a loss I said "but you can't use EVERY gcd on attack spells" to which they both replied "actually yes you can"

So I gave up lol

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

That's why I said in a vacuum, to be fair. To me, it feels more like something returned for having to GCD heal.

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Gotcha. I tend to look at it the same way, and don't consider a return a loss. We'll have to see, but I don't think we are going to be able to avoid GCD healing entirely like we have in the past. Need to see if any final adjustments are made to ogcd heals when the xpac drops.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Haha, when my healers told me it was a loss I said "but you can't use EVERY gcd on attack spells" to which they both replied "actually yes you can"

So I gave up lol

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Even this late into the expansion it isn't necessarily true that we can entirely avoid GCD healing. If your ogcds are on CD and you need to heal, you don't have much choice. Though this is going to happen more in leveling content and PUGs. GCDs are also still spent on regens, shields, and cleanses, so unless they've gone full blown green DPS, they are still using some GCDs towards healing.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

You dont actually know what the majority of healer players want. Hint: this forum and reddit arent the majority. So speak for yourself instead.

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Engaged players are paying players... If on the forums, the players are engaged in the product. If I were a dev I would listen to the feedback.

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Originally Posted by Quyn

You dont actually know what the majority of healer players want. Hint: this forum and reddit arent the majority. So speak for yourself instead.

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Food for thought. This is the kind of logic that potentially runs companies into the ground.

Every company offering a service or product start their growth based off of the quality of said product. Slowly but surely there's a tipping point where your following is big enough that appealing to the masses is more lucrative than designing a better product is. You usually see company management moving from having directors who are initially product designers to having directors who are mostly marketing. One great example is how Apple currently is. It's done chasing innovation and focusing mostly on marketing and price hikes for the greens. I love that example because Steve jobs was very vocal about their success being about having product designers in charge of the company and specifically not marketting, the irony.

Closer to home is WoW where Wrath started introducing easier everything for the masses and lost an initial following of hardcore players once they were done with the content. BC was really the peak of WoW fun as I experienced it (haven't tried anything too recent though). Things have gone significantly downhill since people who care about numbers only took charge though.

I'm not saying FF14 is going through this but I'm just saying it's a pitfall that needs to be avoided and that catering to the masses is not always a valid path for product design. You need to listen to the people who really care and really know what they're talking about and forums are usually the place to go.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Food for thought. This is the kind of logic that potentially runs companies into the ground.

Every company offering a service or product start their growth based off of the quality of said product. Slowly but surely there's a tipping point where your following is big enough that appealing to the masses is more lucrative than designing a better product is. You usually see company management moving from having directors who are initially product designers to having directors who are mostly marketing. One great example is how Apple current is. It's done chasing innovation and focusing mostly on marketing and price hikes for the greens. I love that example because Steve jobs was very vocal about their success being about having product designers in charge of the company and specifically not marketting, the irony.

Closer to home is WoW where Wrath started introducing easier everything for the masses and lost an initial following of hardcore players once they were done with the content. BC was really the peak of WoW fun as I experienced it (haven't tried anything too recent though). Things have gone significantly downhill since people who care about numbers only took charge though.

I'm not saying FF14 is going through this but I'm just saying it's a pitfall that needs to be avoided and that catering to the masses is not always a valid path for product design. You need to listen to the people who really care and really know what they're talking about and forums are usually the place to go.

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That is wonderfully said. I really don't understand people who say it makes no sense to talk because the forums or reddit is not the majority. Why does it not make any sense? We need to have a voice to criticize if we like or dislike what is happening.
I am a bit taken aback today by the amout of people telling the ones who criticize to "not talk at all" etc.. It hurts me. Because at this very moment people should stand up and talk about the issues instead of ignoring or adapting to them.
The Healers got their DPS toolkit cut, SCH even more than half of it. I mean seriously, from HW to SB was even cut but now this? SE needs to stop and needs to get to know their community and even the jobs they design. If Yoshida says, that the devs play the jobs they design, then I ask him, what kind of Healer does any dev play if they design them to be less fun?
That is why it is so important to talk and tell them what is going wrong! I don't want to give up hope but if they do not change anything before or in the beginning of ShB, then I really don't know if playing and paying will be fun for Healer mains...

Another thing to consider, if you ask 1000 people the same question - you aren't likely to get 1000 different answers. Definitely not 1000 good answers. Anybody who can spend enough time analyzing the question and possibilities will likely arrive at a group of similar conclusions. Just because we lack the ability to ask every player in the game their opinion doesn't make the conversation worthless.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Even this late into the expansion it isn't necessarily true that we can entirely avoid GCD healing. If your ogcds are on CD and you need to heal, you don't have much choice. Though this is going to happen more in leveling content and PUGs. GCDs are also still spent on regens, shields, and cleanses, so unless they've gone full blown green DPS, they are still using some GCDs towards healing.

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Oh they tried to go full Momo lol

I agree for the most part though. If you need to spend a GCD healing the world isn't going to crash and burn because we lost 1 damage GCD. IDK, it's almost like the dev team was just trying to push people away from that mentality. Much like what they tried to do with tank DPS at the beginning of Stormblood. But we see how that shook out in the end.

I don't necessarily want more damage abilities, but i do want something to do aside from healing to keep myself busy and entertained while no healing is required. Insisting on the "entertained" because yeah, spamming one button does keep busy but isn't entertaining at all.

Though it's true until then SCH worked the best for me because of the fairies management and dps abilities.

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Originally Posted by EaMett

Food for thought. This is the kind of logic that potentially runs companies into the ground.

Every company offering a service or product start their growth based off of the quality of said product. Slowly but surely there's a tipping point where your following is big enough that appealing to the masses is more lucrative than designing a better product is. You usually see company management moving from having directors who are initially product designers to having directors who are mostly marketing. One great example is how Apple currently is. It's done chasing innovation and focusing mostly on marketing and price hikes for the greens. I love that example because Steve jobs was very vocal about their success being about having product designers in charge of the company and specifically not marketting, the irony.

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Video of what he/she is describing (Steve Jobs explaining what happens when marketing takes over)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1rXqD6M614

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Even this late into the expansion it isn't necessarily true that we can entirely avoid GCD healing. If your ogcds are on CD and you need to heal, you don't have much choice. Though this is going to happen more in leveling content and PUGs. GCDs are also still spent on regens, shields, and cleanses, so unless they've gone full blown green DPS, they are still using some GCDs towards healing.

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And if you remember Bardam's Mettle, mobs hit HARD and we spent time and tons of mana keeping tanks who didn't use their CD's properly alive.

Same thing with Kugane Castle and Temple of the Fist. We were all ~285/290 with the AF gear on and just learning how all of our stuff was coming together. Again, DPS'd when we could, healed a lot more.

Then we overgeared everything and it's faceroll now. We get stronger as the game progresses. It happens.