Healer boycott in 5.0

I really like AST right now. It's one of my favorite classes.

I won't be playing AST in ShB. It has none of the soul of the class I fell in love with. I'll be tempted to, just so that my anima weapon doesn't go to waste... but I don't know if SE will truly realize how pissed many of us are if drastic action isn't taken.

What kind of drastic action? KEEP YOUR HEALER OUT OF GROUP CONTENT IN 5.0. Run group content with something else. Eat the queues if you only have DPS, or perhaps try out GNB - tanking is easier than you think, GNB starts at lvl 60, and it even has a party healing ability!

I'll forgive WHM for breaking the picket, but SCH and especially AST have been massacred. If our jobs just vanish from the duty finder, and people start seeing "Adventurer in Need: Healer" more often than "AiN: Tank", it will have greater force than 100000 futile forum posts.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-various-jobs

This is exactly the kind of stuff I am talking about. Nothing but complaining and overreacting like the game is ruined for healers.

No one is going to follow you into your little boycott.

In the interest of constructive criticism, these are the core features of AST that need to return in order for me to break the boycott:
1. Card variety. Only Spire was totally useless on its own. Bole and even Ewer had situational uses. So what if they're not used outside of 4-mans or progression... neither is RDM.
2. Spread and Royal Road. The heart and soul of the card mechanic is long-term planning of your buffs. I feel great when I pull a Balance, and pocket it for later. I feel shit when I redraw a Spire, but at least I can RR or Minor Arcana it.
3. Celestial opposition and/or time dilation. It felt really good to extend a 15% balance, or a double HoT on the party and triple HoT on the tank, or to pop Celestial Opposition in tandem with lightspeed and spam Gravity for 20 seconds on a pack of mobs (your healing obligations taken care of by your triple HoT on the tank). No other class could do anything like that.

What changes I would like to see that would solve some of the problems of AST in 4.0:
1. Remove expanded RR. Either replace it with a new RR effect, or split Spire and Ewer between the other two RR types. It made AST too powerful in raids, and if you had two ASTs in the party you had to tiptoe around overwriting each others' expanded cards.
2. Buff Ewer and change Spire to a Direct Hit or other damage buff. This would make the Ewer/Spire pair match Bole/Balance in terms of having one personal resource buff, and one damage buff, and make it so that all cards have a relatively common use case.

That's all you need to do to balance AST. If it's deemed necessary, I'd accept a hit to existing damage buffs even aside from Expanded RR... but having every single card become a simple "buff melee" or "buff ranged" card kills the class for me. The easy-to-learn, hard-to-master nature of the card mechanic is what drew me in; extending buffs was just the icing on the cake. I loved thinking ahead to plan out my redraws, spreads, RRs, and minor arcana burns. I loved finding the best party member to give a buff to, especially because it rewarded knowledge of how other jobs play (Arrow goes to SAM and BLM, Spear to BRD). But despite this depth, it was an easy enough system for new astrologians to get into - put damage cards on DPS, Bole on the tank, Ewer on anyone low on mana, and Spire... well, nobody is saying that Spire needs to stay as-is.

These AST changes take one of the most unique healing classes in any MMO, and homogenize it into nothing special. I don't care that the rDPS has been nerfed. I care that the fun and depth of the class has been nerfed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-various-jobs

---

Well, I didn't know he was advocating a boycott. Mods are free to merge this thread into his, although I think it's important to have the constructive curative measure put visibly in the thread title.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

This is exactly the kind of stuff I am talking about. Nothing but complaining and overreacting like the game is ruined for healers.

No one is going to follow you into your little boycott.

---

He complains, but it will be found in 5.0
It's a lot of energy for nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki34

He complains, but it will be found in 5.0
It's a lot of energy for nothing.

---

That describes most of the human condition, as recently demonstrated by the days and days of people going on and on about the last season/episode of Game of Thrones.

Some players have been waiting years to see particular changes or improvements, so naturally many will be disappointed with today's info dump. Venting is to be expected. Telling people who just learned news they don't like not to complain could also be considered energy for nothing as opposed to waiting for the initial steam to blow off, but we all do what we do, even silly me :)

I will continue to be WHM is 5.0, the changes to WHM are too insignificant for me to swap out after 8 years of healing. I am sorry that AST and SCH suffered wide sweeping and, in all honesty, unnecessary nerfs for the sake of balance what was already perfectly fine to begin with. Have a nice day, I hope you get the changes you wish for.

I've been a ride or die sch since 2.0, I'm gonna keep on trucking and enjoy the instant ques caused by this boycott.

I'm definitely not healing until significant changes have been made to both AST and SCH. Me and 3/5ths of my FC unsubbed today.

If they don't run the track back on this there will be a backlash, and no amount of "Wait and see" Squenix brown nosing is going to mitigate that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brandedblade

I've been a ride or die sch since 2.0, I'm gonna keep on trucking and enjoy the instant ques caused by this boycott.

---

See? Always a bright side. Though I may try tanking a little this summer (not in protest but to actually, you know, try it), so that might be a downside for those who remain as healer... :/

Wonder if these changes is why my server and datacenter seems to be dying. Don't see half population now that did last month. That's not good sign

Play what you enjoy among the jobs that are available. It's just a game.

Boycotts don't accomplish anything because they don't explain what the problem is, they only demonstrate that people are unhappy. You might push them into making random changes that will make the healing jobs feel even worse.

Better to play the healing jobs once the changes are live then give constructive feedback on how things are feeling as we go through the new content. Things that look bad on the surface end up much better in practice once we're able to apply the skills to the content they have been designed for. And of course the reverse can be true but we need to actually experience the changes, not just theorize what we think things might be like based on tooltips.

Personally, I'll keep healing because it's the MMO role I tend to enjoy the most.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hynaku

Wonder if these changes is why my server and datacenter seems to be dying. Don't see half population now that did last month. That's not good sign

---

Are you new to MMOs? It is the end of an expansion. Every MMO has an active population drop at the end of an expansion as people take time to play the other games they've been meaning to play. They'll be back in droves when the expansion is released, setting us up for the next Raubahn EX.

I might join in. Boycotting is a useful tool in situations like this.

Meanwhile the rest of us real healers will be doing our healing while the rest of you sit out and do whatever it is youre going to do.. huh kinda like an 8 man raid that way when you think about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidalutz

Meanwhile the rest of us real healers will be doing our healing while the rest of you sit out and do whatever it is youre going to do.. huh kinda like an 8 man raid that way when you think about it.

---

You sound like the sort who'd rather toss out a Benefic II on someone missing 3 HP than deign to sully their hands by pressing Combust. Just because you're content to contribute the bare minimum doesn't mean the rest of us have to be happy with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

You sound like the sort who'd rather toss out a Benefic II on someone missing 3 HP than deign to sully their hands by pressing Combust. Just because you're content to contribute the bare minimum doesn't mean the rest of us have to be happy with it.

---

This is where you use your headmeat for something other than grasping at straws the dont exist.

Why the hell would I waste a benefic II on someone who's obviously been regened by me 16 seconds ago so I could Malefic III, Combust, Gravity. and use my cards More than likely redrawing at least once during that time period?

Well they'll have their data as a good chunk of their healer mains drop healing or the game entirely. They'll realize they messed up and hopefully scramble to correct themselves.

It's not my job to play armchair dev, I'm not fixing the system they broke for them. They don't pay me for that.

I've made very clear across multiple forums my displeasure and where it stems from. It's their job as a developer to design their systems. Building upon the old one would have been fine, even this new one would have been fine if it had maintained some of it's identity and diversity.

They didn't, so I'm dissatisfied and I will voice my displeasure every chance I get to let them know they messed up and I'm not happy about it.

They'll fix it and get my money or they won't, and they won't. I show my displeasure with my wallet because like you said, a company only understands numbers.

Well see you all later. I will be healing in 5.0 thank you peeps for making my Q instent

wont get much feed back on what to change if people just leave

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidalutz

This is where you use your headmeat for something other than grasping at straws the dont exist.

Why the hell would I waste a benefic II on someone who's obviously been regened by me 16 seconds ago so I could Malefic III, Combust, Gravity. and use my cards More than likely redrawing at least once during that time period?

---

Really? Because you come across as the kind of person who feels that we shouldn't be complaining because we still have our healing kit, and that's all you REALLY need. It doesn't make you a "real" healer to not give a damn about reductions to our DPS and utility toolkit. Folks like you are why SE will just shrug and say healer is perfectly fine, since the numbers say people are still playing it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

This is exactly the kind of stuff I am talking about. Nothing but complaining and overreacting like the game is ruined for healers.

No one is going to follow you into your little boycott.

---

Wrong. I'm done healing.
Signed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vorlonshadow

Well see you all later. I will be healing in 5.0 thank you peeps for making my Q instent

---

You're welcome. If you're the kind of bloke that can have fun pressing the same 3 keys over and over, well they hey; these changes are for you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Urthdigger

Really? Because you come across as the kind of person who feels that we shouldn't be complaining because we still have our healing kit, and that's all you REALLY need. It doesn't make you a "real" healer to not give a damn about reductions to our DPS and utility toolkit. Folks like you are why SE will just shrug and say healer is perfectly fine, since the numbers say people are still playing it.

---

No I feel you shouldn't be complaining because you only have one section of the data available you just know the changes to your classes. You dont know anything about the content in store or the like generally huge overhauls to combat systems are due to signifigant changes to the way something works in the game itself. If its not then by all means complain.

You guys are overreacting so hard. Dont believe the devs when they said theyd rebalance combat around more healing involved? Fine, thats on you. Ill give them the oppertunity to show it before i cry like a bossy child.

This is supposed to be a paradime shift from the high focus on dps to a high focus on needed healing input. If you dont like that change, you should play a dps or tank, theres plenty.

*grabs some popcorn and continues to watch this fire burn*

You guys are overreacting so hard. Dont believe the devs when they said theyd rebalance combat around more healing involved? Fine, thats on you. Ill give them the oppertunity to show it before i cry like a bossy child.

This is supposed to be a paradigm shift from the high focus on dps to a high focus on needed healing input. If you dont like that change, you should play a dps or tank, theres plenty.

Well forgive our pessimism but they haven't exactly proven themselves in the past to provide a steady constant stream of damage to justify constant healing cause remember, all healers have extremely healing tools and Whm has it overkill. They're giving more healing on top of more healing. Even in Ultimates (having cleared UCOB myself) healing has only been intensive in a few select situations(some of the Bahamut trios, add phase, Garuda cleanses and the Primal Roulette), a good majority of healing can be done through ogcd healing.

I'm willing to give it a chance but given the current track of the dev team, it hasn't exactly proven a good first impression.

lol boycotting. Minority is legit here and in reddit whatsoever.
You wont accomplish anything. And if you do that be my guest ill queue as a healer and get lvl 80 easily since it will be "in need"
cheers o/

And if some of you refuse to heal please dont queue with healers in dungeons/raids <3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sathona

lol boycotting. Minority is legit here and in reddit whatsoever.
You wont accomplish anything. And if you do that be my guest ill queue as a healer and get lvl 80 easily since it will be "in need"
cheers o/

And if some of you refuse to heal please dont queue with healers in dungeons/raids <3

---

I second this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quyn

Dont believe the devs when they said theyd rebalance combat around more healing involved?

---

Boycott or no, why should anyone believe this? They said the same exact thing about Stormblood and look how that turned out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sathona

lol boycotting. Minority is legit here and in reddit whatsoever.
You wont accomplish anything. And if you do that be my guest ill queue as a healer and get lvl 80 easily since it will be "in need"
cheers o/

And if some of you refuse to heal please dont queue with healers in dungeons/raids <3

---

No. If you want to be a 1-trick pony and play these terrible class designs, I'll happily que with a Ninja, Sam, or whatever and make you do the dirty work. Gladly. Have fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tinythinker

That describes most of the human condition, as recently demonstrated by the days and days of people going on and on about the last season/episode of Game of Thrones.

Some players have been waiting years to see particular changes or improvements, so naturally many will be disappointed with today's info dump. Venting is to be expected. Telling people who just learned news they don't like not to complain could also be considered energy for nothing as opposed to waiting for the initial steam to blow off, but we all do what we do, even silly me :)

---

I don't create a subject to express my weariness to see people create topics to complain about and nothing for the result. Because, it is very likely that it will happen anyway.

That's why I think my energy expenditure is negligible.

And (bonus), I don't watch Game of Throne.
And, I'm not disappointed by my favorite heal job.

And :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki34

I don't create a subject to express my weariness to see people create topics to complain about and nothing for the result. Because, it is very likely that it will happen anyway.

That's why I think my energy expenditure is negligible.

---

Still the same energy to type as anyone else :p People spend their energy on lots of things, and venting is one of them. Sometimes its merely cathartic (which can have some value) and sometimes it actually causes change. I've seen people in uproar over proposed changes in another MMO and it led to a modification of the dev approach. Either way, the winds blow and the seas roar without regard to our qualms or asperity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki34

And (bonus), I don't watch Game of Thrones.

---

Yet, example is relevant. Some folks are still upset over it but the volume on social media has died down. Some of the spicier complaint vs. anti-complaint comments over the past 24 hours conjure for me the of a person removing some of the wrapping from a gift and saying (sometimes loudly and angrily) that they're disappointed, while someone else is replying "Who cares?" or "You can't be sure yet!" Interesting social dynamic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fantasticm

Boycott or no, why should anyone believe this? They said the same exact thing about Stormblood and look how that turned out.

---

This is why I'm concerned. The devs don't seem to understand that just buffing outgoing damage and/or nerfing healer DPS toolkits is not the way to go - potencies and encounter design would have to be fundamentally changed if you want to create an organic, healthy way of pushing healers more towards healing than DPS. Scripted burst windows and insane HPS throughput are why healer gameplay is the way it is in this game, and taking away Cleric Stance, pruning healers down to two DPS buttons and putting a cap on mana isn't going to make healing magically more fun, it'll just make DPS less fun (as though it was that fun to begin with if you were an AST lol).

I usually like to at least give something a chance before passing instant judgment on it.

See, Yoshi-P and team playtested it. We haven't.

You're going to talk like you know better than the team who went through a rigorous design phase, playtesting phase, etc?

You're going to talk like you know more about the subject than they do?

Really?

But go ahead, throw your tantrums, etc. I'll enjoy my faster Q times, and my commendations.

Quote:

---

This is why I'm concerned. The devs don't seem to understand that just buffing outgoing damage and/or nerfing healer DPS toolkits is not the way to go - potencies and encounter design would have to be fundamentally changed if you want to create an organic, healthy way of pushing healers more towards healing than DPS. Scripted burst windows and insane HPS throughput are why healer gameplay is the way it is in this game, and taking away Cleric Stance, pruning healers down to two DPS buttons and putting a cap on mana isn't going to make healing magically more fun, it'll just make DPS less fun (as though it was that fun to begin with if you were an AST lol).

---

Which is a GOOD thing. It creates a bit of a buffer, to where you can do stuff other than healing, or if you've got slower reaction times, you won't end up causing wipes because you weren't healing with 0.5s margin of error like in WoW.

I've tried WoW healing and it is everything you're asking for, MOAR HEALING and .... it sucks. A lot. You have very little forgiveness, very little margin of error.

Trust me. It's better the way it is in FFXIV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maeka

I usually like to at least give something a chance before passing instant judgment on it.

See, Yoshi-P and team playtested it. We haven't.

You're going to talk like you know better than the team who went through a rigorous design phase, playtesting phase, etc?

You're going to talk like you know more about the subject than they do?

Really?

But go ahead, throw your tantrums, etc. I'll enjoy my faster Q times, and my commendations.



Which is a GOOD thing. It creates a bit of a buffer, to where you can do stuff other than healing, or if you've got slower reaction times, you won't end up causing wipes because you weren't healing with 0.5s margin of error like in WoW.

I've tried WoW healing and it is everything you're asking for, MOAR HEALING and .... it sucks. A lot. You have very little forgiveness, very little margin of error.

Trust me. It's better the way it is in FFXIV.

---

So what playtesting did 4.0 healers go through? The healer changelog up to 4.5 should tell you how little plan they have. We can also jump back into 3.0 and look at how long it took for AST to be useable...

Why not just wait for 5.0 to come out, try healing with the new changes, and then make a decision if you're going to continue doing it or not?

I get the frustration and being vocal about it (I play sch myself as my main healer), but already saying you're going to drop it before even trying it isn't really adding to the credibility.

I'm going to try all the jobs(Tanks/Healers/DPS) I normally play and if I don't agree with the changes after trying them I'll be vocal about them with others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hustensaft

So what playtesting did 4.0 healers go through? The healer changelog up to 4.5 should tell you how little plan they have. We can also jump back into 3.0 and look at how long it took for AST to be useable...

---

*shrugs* The Devs have different goals/likes than we do.

The Devs thought 4.0 was fine when they first playtested it, but the players in their infinite GOTTA GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO mentality that is a disease upon Duty Finder content were all whiny and crap.

I'm getting the feeling that the Devs are not so impatient, and not speedrunners that absolutely must finish dungeons in 15 minutes or less type mentality. But they release these classes and the speedrunners complain because it doesn't work as well for speedrunning and the Devs have to adjust.

*shrug*

But then I'm of the opinion we should put obstacles after every single pull to stop this absurd speedrun crap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noitems

Why not just wait for 5.0 to come out, try healing with the new changes, and then make a decision if you're going to continue doing it or not?

---

Because it's too much work for the easily triggered crybaby fanbase to you know, actually experience something first and make an informed decision.
Besides, we know they're all bluster anyways. They'll be back once their queue times suffer.