THANK YOU for making Healers actual Healers again!

I just want to say Thank You Yoshi P and Crew for recognizing that when someone chooses to play a healer they want to heal not focus on dps. I never thought this would happen and has made me extremely excited for healing in Shadowbringers.

You know they are not actually removing DPS from the healers, there will still be downtime no doubt when healing is not required.

Most of us want something engaging. If they don't up the damage to match the increase in heals, and adjust our DPS in a way that makes it even more boring (There are rumors about removing DoTs), that doesn't help anyone. It makes healing boring. If standing around waiting for people to get hurt enough to bother healing is fun for you, more power to you, but I want to be able to actually do things between the required healing times.

Unless they actually improve the amount of outgoing damage in fights, healers are going to be pretty boring if they completely neuter our damage. I’m not a fan of standing around waiting for someone to take damage so I can actually participate in content.

That's not what pure healer means OP.

But what they said doesn't really make sense if AST and SCH still have their unique toys, WHM was the 'pure healer' because it didn't have anything but big heal energy.

I too want to see how few buttons I can press to get carried through content.

You should look at healer DPS as a reward for healing well rather than some repugnant thing that's forced onto you

Don't count your chickens before they've hatched.

We don't know what "pure healer" focus means to SE yet.

The only reason for them to put more emphasis on pure healing is if they are re-designing how damage is dished out. If it's still the same old model, healers will still be weaving dps skills during healing downtime.

I'm going to laugh if they don't up the damage to compensate. I like the more DPS oriented meta for healers but if they actually make healing challenging and worth the high uptime then I'll be pleased with the change. If not I'm likely role switching for the expansion.

I'm hoping for a difficulty curve around the second or third dungeon. Bardam's mobs hit pretty hard the first time and there were those patrollers roaming around that was like a pull by themselves. I'd like more of that. And I'm curious what that "Job effectiveness will vary depending on player skill" at the bottom of the tank card meant. How much DPS we do will also depend on how much damage the tank takes.

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Originally Posted by Nuna

That's not what pure healer means OP.

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Exactly. Read some of Yoshi-P's interviews to see what he means by it.

From 2015: "Up until now, we designed scholars and white mages to be perfect partners for one another. Now, we suddenly drop Astrologian into the mix. In order to maintain the utility of both white mages and scholars, we decided to add the stances for Astrologian. In pure healing stance it can partner well with scholars, while it can switch to the barrier stance for partnering with a white mage."

https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...dia-Event-5-19)

A more recent quote: "When looking at this history of healing jobs. Making strong balance between three jobs it has been tough. With three its been tough, so with a 4th the balance might get even worse. Instead of doing this, we want to prioritize balancing them better this expansion so we didn’t want to add a new healer at 4.0 or 5.0. We really think we need to restructure the way healers are handled. We can’t keep this strict division between pure healer and barrier healer. Something needs to change here so we can maintain good balance. Thats the main reason we didn’t have a healer. First priority was to add a 3rd ranged, then a 4th tank while we balance the healers better."

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8GTvPw4uI/edit

WHM and diurnal AST are the "pure healers". SCH and noct AST are the "barrier healers".
Yoshi-P not talking about damage. He's talking about how their heals work. "Pure healing" just means heals that just do straight healing (no shields).

As long as you have a single button that can do damage, you'll be expected to use it during downtime by your party.

it just mean we now more into healing role. instead of 60% heal 40% dps, we are now going 70% heal 30% dps, at least its how i think.


https://i.redd.it/1v76g7vjp1sx.jpg
the prophecy has spoken

Supposedly, this is a misinterpretation. JP refers to Regen healers as "Pure" healers. If we go with that, it seems more likely they are neutering shields but you'll still be expected to DPS just like we do now.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Supposedly, this is a misinterpretation. JP refers to Regen healers as "Pure" healers. If we go with that, it seems more likely they are neutering shields but you'll still be expected to DPS just like we do now.

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Bugger ...

I really don't care. Whatever just ends this pointless war between people that want healers to dps and healers that prefer to just heal.

Every class is required to participle in DPS. Plus, how boring would it be if you just pop a few Physicks on the tank and then basically sit down till they are wounded again? No, Pure Healer refers to direct healing. If you read the creators notes and listen to his words, you’d notice this.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I really don't care. Whatever just ends this pointless war between people that want healers to dps and healers that prefer to just heal.

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The war will never end unless encounter designs are changed to require more healing. Considering this will make healing "harder," the devs aren't going to do. Therefore, you will be expected to DPS.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

The war will never end unless encounter designs are changed to require more healing. Considering this will make healing "harder," the devs aren't going to do. Therefore, you will be expected to DPS.

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It's a good thing I already DPS. But I'm going to say I personally don't care if the healer dps or not. It's not going to kill me if they don't. Also, I wouldn't say you'd be expected. Most really don't care whether the healer does it or not and I don't recall it being written in stone that it's an expectation.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I personally don't care if the healer dps or not. It's not going to kill me if they don't.

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It IS going to kill you as there are things as enrage timer. Even without, the longer the fight goes on the higher the chances you die. Especially in Savage and EX were Healer-DPS is mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

It's a good thing I already DPS. But I'm going to say I personally don't care if the healer dps or not. It's not going to kill me if they don't. Also, I wouldn't say you'd be expected. Most really don't care whether the healer does it or not and I don't recall it being written in stone that it's an expectation.

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In a Savage setting, it is very much expected. The only reason to be somewhat hesitant to DPS aggressively is if you're new to the content. But the moment you step into anything remotely difficult (EX and up), you should be DPSing otherwise you're just lazy.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

It IS going to kill you as there are things as enrage timer. Even without, the longer the fight goes on the higher the chances you die. Especially in Savage and EX Healer-DPS is mandatory.

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I was not aware that we were on the topic of EX fights and Savage. Things which the crowd that prefers to just heal tend to avoid.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I was not aware that we were on the topic of EX fights and Savage. Things which the crowd that prefers to just heal tend to avoid.

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Thankfully.

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Originally Posted by Nuna

Thankfully.

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So we just acknowledge they avoid the hard content..what is seriously the point of this argument.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I was not aware that we were on the topic of EX fights and Savage. Things which the crowd that prefers to just heal tend to avoid.

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Even outside of those, your party will be still pissed and bosses way more dangerous in the endgame dungeons if the healer don't DPS. The best way to keep your party save is usually to kill things as quickly as possible.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

So we just acknowledge they avoid the hard content..what is seriously the point of this argument.

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Because if healers were blanket changed to only heal, it would be universal in both softcore level content and hardcore level content.

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Originally Posted by Pepsi_Plunge

Even outside of those, your party will be still pissed and bosses way more dangerous in the endgame dungeons if the healer don't DPS. The best way to keep your party save is usually to kill things as quickly as possible.

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If we're going to be 100% honest here. The only parties that would be pissed about that would be one of those parties. Which honestly is not the vast majority of the FFXIV community itself. While I agree it's best to kill things as quickly as possible. I'm not going to go as if my day is ruined because the healer wants to strictly heal.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Because if healers were blanket changed to only heal, it would be universal in both softcore level content and hardcore level content.

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The fact remains that it's not a requirement for them to do so in softcore though. While I agree a healer should be dpsing in hardcore content. Something like a dungeon isn't a major deal if they decide they don't want to toss out damage spells. As to why that is such a difficult concept to grasp for some people bewilders me.

Anyways. This is going in a circle just like every other time I let myself get caught up in this pointless debate. I'm honestly not even going to bother anymore lol

Lmao, a ton of people can't even properly heal The Vault. There ain't no way in hell SE decided it was a great idea to make fights more healing intensive. It would mean a world of pain.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

If we're going to be 100% honest here. The only parties that would be pissed about that would be one of those parties. Which honestly is not the vast majority of the FFXIV community itself. While I agree it's best to kill things as quickly as possible. I'm not going to go as if my day is ruined because the healer wants to strictly heal.


The fact remains that it's not a requirement for them to do so in softcore though. While I agree a healer should be dpsing in hardcore content. Something like a dungeon isn't a major deal if they decide they don't want to toss out damage spells. As to why that is such a difficult concept to grasp for some people bewilders me.

Anyways. This is going in a circle just like every other time I let myself get caught up in this pointless debate. I'm honestly not even going to bother any more lol

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It IS a major deal because it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in dungeons, you would just be wasting 3 other people their time. Never once did I think to myself "oh, this is a dungeon, we don't really need healer DPS". No my mentality is that I contribute the most I can, regardless of the content I'm in, because I respect people their time more than my own drive to be lazy.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

It's a good thing I already DPS. But I'm going to say I personally don't care if the healer dps or not. It's not going to kill me if they don't. Also, I wouldn't say you'd be expected. Most really don't care whether the healer does it or not and I don't recall it being written in stone that it's an expectation.

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The Hall of the Novice training course says you should be DPSing when your party doesn't need healing.

And there's the whole CNJ questline of course.

While this has been a hot topic of conversation since well, basically ever, the truth of the matter is that healer DPS is, at this point, no a matter of what direction the devs want to take it. Healer DPS is expected in well performing parties, and will be expected for as long as healers have DPS skills. This is more of a rule of the community than whatever the devs want. If your goal is play standard dungeons, then fine, you'll be able to do just fine only tossing out the occasional heal, but no one would prefer you over a healer that better manages their skills and fits damage in.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

The fact remains that it's not a requirement for them to do so in softcore though. While I agree a healer should be dpsing in hardcore content. Something like a dungeon isn't a major deal if they decide they don't want to toss out damage spells. As to why that is such a difficult concept to grasp for some people bewilders me.

Anyways. This is going in a circle just like every other time I let myself get caught up in this pointless debate. I'm honestly not even going to bother anymore lol

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The thread is thanking Yoshi P for a blanket change for all healer damage (mistaken translation or no) across all content types. Whatever debate you're having, if it's not using that as a basis, is a bit off-topic.

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Originally Posted by Starflake

It IS a major deal because it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in dungeons, you would just be wasting 3 other people their time. Never once did I think to myself "oh, this is a dungeon, we don't really need healer DPS". No my mentality is that I contribute the most I can, regardless of the content I'm in, because I respect people their time more than my own drive to be lazy.

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My mentality is this. "I'm joining this dungeon, it could go pretty quick or it might be a little slow. But oh well, whatever happens, will happen". You give the impression that you're considerate about the three people in your party and you respect them. Yet that consideration and respect appear to be thrown straight out the window when it comes to a healer that isn't dpsing. There is also a bunch of reasons as to why a healer isn't dpsing. Let me put me for example when I didn't dps. It wasn't because I was being lazy. Or wanted to "waste the time of the rest of the party". It was because I wasn't comfortable. I wasn't confident. Basically, I was scared that if I tried, I would completely screw up and wipe the party. That was until I got into a run when someone asked why and I explained to them. They gave me tips, and asked if I could give it a shot. Ease my way into it. Which I did, that was years ago and now I dps whenever possible.

It's quite interesting when people show patiance and being actually considerate and respectful towards the person that's doing something they don't necessarily agree with. They didn't blow it up like I was wasting time, they didn't go to the realms of insulting me saying I'm being "lazy". Will everyone react to that the same way I did? Heavens no, but it's nice to actually give that a bit of consideration. Which is another reason why I feel I'm always butting heads with the pro dps crowd on this forum. Most of you don't show respect towards the healers you are complaining about. You just lash out at them while insulting. You berate them, treat them like you're far superior. If you're trying to convince them to dps, then you're a terrible job at it. I've seen people who literally went to the extent of purposely wiping a run because the healer isn't dpsing. If you want to talk about wasting time, you need to talk to those people. Yes, dpsing in this game is easy. But easy to you is not the same easy as everyone else that plays this game. I respect people too. But the difference between you and me is this. When I say I respect people. I actually mean it and yes, that includes the people I have constantly butted heads against when getting involved in this debate. I respect you guys opinion, but I think it's quite flawed.

Pretty sure SE said they wanted to make the role less DPS focused at the start of Stormblood too, didn't they? At this point I basically judge on design, not design intention, since at times it feels like the devs don't even play their own game.

I've been a WHM main since 2.1, and I sincerely hope that the suggested mis-interpretation of "pure/regen" is correct, because if I'm going to be forced to do nothing but heal, then I'm just going to quit WHM and crack on with DRK/NIN/SMN (my preferred go-to jobs when I'm not WHM) so that I have something to do, and I can see many others dropping it too.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

The thread is thanking Yoshi P for a blanket change for all healer damage (mistaken translation or no) across all content types. Whatever debate you're having, if it's not using that as a basis, is a bit off-topic.

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I'm going to make the assumption that you completely ignored the first page of this thread and for whatever reason just looked at my comment and thought I was the only one being slightly off topic here as the debate was starting and I simply made the comment of I don't care what happens as long as it ends this pointless debate. Which honestly is true. I've grown tired of this debate, it does nothing but goes into a complete circle. It's really just a colossal waste of time because no one is getting anywhere with it.

Edit: Realized I did a double post..strange lol

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you completely ignored the first page of this thread and for whatever reason just looked at my comment and thought I was the only one being slightly off topic here as the debate was starting and I simply made the comment of I don't care what happens as long as it ends this pointless debate.

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I stepped in when you said "I was not aware we were on the topic of EX and Savage."

When we're talking about blanket changes to all healers across all content, we are indeed talking EX and Savage...and Ultimate, and Eureka. We're talking all healers across all content.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

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I said I respect people their time. And therefore, people who blatantly waste other people their time aren't respected. I'd still not waste everyone else their time though. You're misrepresenting what I am saying. Not DPSing because you're not comfortable is a completely different thing. But then again, DPSing in any dungeon, especially expert roulette is so mind boggling easy, one has to wonder how on earth one can be uncomfortable with it. For me, it's simple, if in any dungeon or savage you aren't doing damage as a healer, you are doing a poor job. You can be uncomfortable, and as a result play poorly, that does not change anything about the fact that it's poor gameplay.

I am not here to convince anyone. All I am saying is that I respect people's time and since it's so incredibly easy to DPS as a healer in any content, I do it, always.