lvl1 Stone
lvl2 Cure
lvl3 Aero
lvl8 Regan
lvl10 Raise
lvl12 Medica
lvl15 Water
lvl16 Stone> Stone II
lvl26 Water> Water II
lvl30 Cure> Cure II
lvl30 Tetragrammaton
lvl35 Aero> Aero II
lvl40 Holy
lvl40 Medica > Medica II
lvl46 Water II > Water III
lvl50 Benediction
lvl52 Assize
lvl54 Stone II > Stone III
lvl56 Asylum
lvl58 Aero II > Aero III
lvl60 Water > Water IV
lvl62 Cure II > Cure III
lvl64 Stone III > Stone IV
lvl66 Divine Bension
lvl68 Aero III > Aero IV
lvl70 Plenary Indulgence
lvl72 Holy > Holy 2
lvl74 Stone IV > Quake
lvl76 Water IV > Flood
lvl78 Aero IV > Twister
lvl80 Elemental Trance.
Water - Off-Global Cooldown - 60 second cooldown even if does have cooldown it does still cost mp to cast
Instant Cast
Deal 180 potancy water damage
Additional effect : Increase Damage taken by 10% for 15 seconds
Additional Effect : Restores 5% MP upon Cast
Medica and Medica II become one in the same meaning regen effect will be attached to Medica. and get it at much lower level
Cure is single heal spell that keeps growing stronger as you level up
no longer have cure II and cure III as different actions
Aero/Aero II and Aero III also become one action aero from start becomes aoe dot. and doesn't have a cast time.
instead having two different dots
Divine Bansion - becomes a hybrid between protect, shell and stoneskin combinded into single skill. that can effect whole team
Benediction cooldown time is reduced to 60 seconds. same terragram is 30 second cooldown skill
Lilys reworked. and plenary ingulance gets massive boost adding a base heal 450 and strong heal over time effect for each lily you have
white mage have only single heal spell that generate lilys instead of muiti
Pressence of Mind, Thin Air. completely gone
Full white-mage rework -
Printable View
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03-28-2019, 10:24 AMCelestaRosaFull white-mage rework -
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03-28-2019, 10:41 AMMenae
How have you made WHM worse?
Bene on 60 seconds and tetra on 30 seconds means we never need to cast a GCD heal again, and you've made our DPS rotation EVEN WORSE. -
03-28-2019, 10:49 AMlordcruxis
Honestly, this looks pretty bad, like you're trying to be more a DD with healing capabilities. The oGCD healing meta is overall pretty bad for healer diversity. Also, I feel as though you've managed to make Lillies worse, and Plenary Indulgence is still nigh unusable.
That said, I am slightly annoyed that WHM hasn't gotten Flood, Quake, and Tornado, or even a proper water spell in general -
03-28-2019, 12:48 PMCelestaRosawhat I did was reduce the mount of buttonsQuote:
Originally Posted by lordcruxis
however gave white mage off global cooldown -stab" that can work along side stone. and aero. slowing down the dps
Stone itself has hidiously high cast time.
I reduced the number of heals that pretty much do the same
I made Divine Bansion - Give Shell, Protect and Stoneskin II to whole party
Water Functions Like Trick attack only difference is you dont need suiton or hide to do it making it ideal raid ulitity that white mages needs..
while trance increases damage 30%
your cure spell continuelessly gets stronger without the raise of to its mp cost. meaning all cures have same mp cost as cure I
fact that medica II, Medica and cure III are all pain in the ass own individaul when we really dont need that many aoe heals
we just need one strong aoe heal + instant cast aoe heal that is it.
do really need cure II and cure III currently way it is
no they do same thing they did to stone constantly making it stronger reach a level give it some type trait that makes it aoe after you crit function differently when do something
making cure and cure II same spell
when has respose and fluid aura ever been useful too whm. please enlighten me, frankly pressense of mind and thin air. aren't needed
lower cast time to stone.
what see on paper may look worse but in truth its better then what we have -
03-28-2019, 03:12 PMOrbusI want those spells too, but they're pretty clearly dps spells, and high level ones too from any other ff game and they hate healers doing good damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcruxis
If they don't want to give the WHM any utility spells like the other two though, straight up damage to fill the gap the other two make up with their buffs would probably not be bad.
AST and SCH already do a bit more damage than WHM, then you consider fey wind and the balance card and their party wide damage contribution vs the WHM starts looking real stupid.
Not that this is the only problem, but it's an important one. -
03-28-2019, 06:01 PMlordcruxisWHM is already among the least bloated Jobs in the game, you're lowering this to like less than a single hotbar for some reason, and we need to move away from oGCD heals, not towards them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
Okay, so first and foremost, every heal in the game does the "same thing," So in that sense, you didn't reduce the amount of heals. As far as practicality, the heals all have specific scenarios that they are used. With the exception of Cure falling out of usefulness, all of WHM heals have a place. Cure 3 is hard to use simply because encounter design isn't really meant for high raidwide healing, but it's also a targetable spell, not a self cast spell. Both Medica and Medica 2 see fairly regular use, because they do different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
Also it would be massively OP to keep all your heals at the same Cure/Medica MP cost.
For Divine Benison, you've literally just combined protect and a weaker aoe shield than even the current Divine Benison. This is completely unnecessary.
Repose and Fluid Aura do have uses when things go bad in dungeons, like on a tank death, or when adds spawn. They are significantly more niche, but they aren't useless.
Presence of Mind is a wonderful cooldown that I think you aren't using properly, and thin air is a very power tool that you also don't seem to be using properly. That's really the only explanation for why you'd remove them.
These absolutely are not better in practice, it shows that you don't have a clue what balance is, and it comes across that you only want a 2 button job. -
03-28-2019, 06:50 PMArchwizard
As someone who just picked up WHM recently (so feel free to disregard my opinion as naive or uninformed)...
... I'd like to see a system for WHM where they can transition between damage and healing more easily. Not necessarily full "battle healer" where you deal damage in order to heal, but perhaps something like, your damage skills give some "catch up" benefits to your future heals.
Cast Stone (or Water?) to stack an effect that makes your next healing spell faster or to make your next healing spell also shield the target for a percentage, Aero ticks have a chance to proc Freecure or reduce their own DoT duration to reduce the target's damage, or perhaps even use Aero as a beacon/marker for some area effect...
Things where ultimately just spamming heals on the tank would probably be more efficient overall, but you can spend more time dealing damage without sacrificing much in terms of healing, to give yourself the leeway not to panic that you've spent too long on the boss.
Given the unpopularity of the Lily Gauge, I think it could be something worth looking into as a replacement. -
03-28-2019, 07:13 PMHysteriorWhy? These are great spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
No sure why you would want to reduce the number of skills that much. Almost feels like having 2 buttons for heals and 2 buttons for DPS.
Let's not have WHM become as boring as Blue mage please. -
03-28-2019, 10:26 PMColtvoyance
Removing Presence of Mind and Thin Air would be absolutely horrible. It would severely limit our ability to blind other players with Holy spam. Not cool. I also enjoy PoM for when Swiftcast is down and someone needs a res. It's not instant, but at least its faster. Among many other uses.
Theres really almost nothing in WHM's kit that needs to be removed, except maybe Repose and Fluid Aura (Crowd Control in FFXIV? It'd be nice, but lets be honest, its not a thing in PVE.)
Aside from that, other than a lily rework and entirely redefining the design and structure of how healing classes function in FFXIV, WHM is fine. No biggie. -
03-29-2019, 04:13 AMCelestaRosa
you guys didn't let me finish the suggestion before i start judging-
reason why pressense of mind is removed
cause ti because passive trait - then action or cooldown
meaning you have pressense of mind active 24/7 its power toned down a little. trade off is no were enar as powerful as it is now as long as you play whm pressense of mind is perminately active
water - is high damage instant cast damage spell that has off-global cooldown. a very low cooldown
highiest level water - is 600 potancy water element stab - that gives 20 second trick attack effect. with massive MP Restore attached too. really really powerful cant have it all. you have give up something rather have your current shitty magic rotation wathc is complete garbage. or trade it for something more indepth not down right retarded
this makes whms rotation more complex then spamming pressense of mind cleric stance
New Divine Bension - look like this dont have continueless use it press it once leave it alone at start of the dungeon. doesn't have cast time you just press it boom parties is buffed as long their 40-45 yalms of the white mage
10% Phsyical and magical damage reduce (press it once and leave it alone)
10% additional HP full party (your giving whole party 10% more hp)
20% HP Recovery magics too whole team
This is freaking you want protect when this ability is superior every other way.. no long use swiftcast and protect cause your tank cant wait for you put protect on your whole team. its just their boom
cant have both.
if they added them lets say they kept pressense of mind you only have short bursts of dps do even understand why this is so bad that we become healer that needs 1 button to make dps checks cause otherwise are spells are skills are slow
this you can always burst dps
give whm damage spells what they ! need instead get random whiny players complaining their isn't enough heals on this white mage. really? really!? currently white mage heals. with situational functionality
I am lvl70 white mage i know unless you have pressense of mind. active your not healing for shit with current medica one. cure III is need very tricky
say that your wrong cause cure III is often used to savage or with teams with alot communication cause its more cost effect then medica 1 or two
only time you actually use medica II when you need to place regan whole party. base heal isn't strong enough to cast it second time nor should you
then you have assize and plenary
reason why pressense of mind is a problem is because your too relitate on it. you shouldnt need relay on cool-down to heal or dps correctly but you do. that is the issue
having so many different cures is confusing enough. i do not see the difference. cause making cure 1> cure II like traits having two heal spells on two different buttons that remotely do the same thing when could have other actions added to your kit.
I use cure II constantly at lvl70 never use cure never have too. it cure II doesn't even drain enough mp its like am casting constantly cure 1 rarely even used and freecure procs starting become pointless
you want to know whty i tell you why
cause we have lucid dreaming, thin air and assize we never need for nothing. reason why thin air so bad cause become to relate on that skill. back in arr you had actually manage your mp and mp amanagement is a part of what a healer should be doing. not constantly being spoonfed cheese easy skills.
today. dont have to do shit. cause we have skills.
only times find myself of need for mp when spaming aoe heal or using holy
in current state the tanks like to pull big. so stuck casting cure II rather you like to or not
at my level
i have 10-19k cure 1
my cure II 20-29k
If you need a single ability to function as a healer. that ability should not exist it should become a passive. cause their be times you wont have pressence of mind up. during those times you dont you will die. you wipe the party cause cant met the dps checks required for you to do savage
whole thought line is am a healer shouldn't have to help with dps is a load of crap you know it. if ever comes a time where healers dont need to dps just sit their look pretty dont do anything in battle but spawn cure on the tank. then I honestly dont want be healer
you people need understand this isn't wow this final fantasy 14. you need contribute too the dps pool. or your only playing 75% of your class proparly
fact is what i see here are bunch of young white mages never attempted savage run in their life. or even know what massive dps checks are why it is important to met these checks. currently white mages not wanted in savage cause have no utility don't bring anything other two healers can't do better. and that is wrong
I get that you love pressense of mind and thin air. but they become too vital for us having such vital skills like that is main reason healers in bad state their in first place. -
03-29-2019, 04:42 AMCanadaneI am not going to praise his ideas or anything but healers already don't cast GCD heals in most cases.Quote:
Originally Posted by Menae
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03-29-2019, 07:49 AMKurandoThere many players that are level 70 and don't know how to use their job properly, never think that level means something because sometimes it's just a number. You ought to consider taking feedback from other players in the thread, they are not just saying things to disagree with you but mostly because several have a good idea on what does and doesn't need fixing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
Do you run savage by the way, which ones have you run and cleared? Have you also tried ultimate? This are legitimate questions. -
03-29-2019, 09:50 AMHyoMinParkIt’s generally considered best to give your suggestion in its entirety before you post. That way, we have the full picture with regards to what you’re saying—not just points with little to no explanation, or little to no rhyme or reason to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
That being said, everything you posted regarding changes to WHM (before this post and since) is either non-sensical, unnecessary, or both, in my opinion. The only thing I personally think WHM needs going forward is a type of utility. It’s time to dump this “pure healer” or “burst healer” design, unless the developers are actually going to make content utilize burst healing. As it stands, there are groups that have healed current Savage with nothing but oGCDs, so clearly a “pure healer” like WHM is not going to work if design encounters remain the same with regards to damage output. Personally, I’d rather see more heal-intensive fights.
Yes, that is, in fact, when you use Medica II. You use its HoTs to tick people up to full instead of doing Medica > Medica > (maybe Medica again). MP conservation and MP efficiency all rolled into one.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
It seems like you don’t understand the concept of HoTs and how they’re supposed to work. People don’t need to be at 100% health, 100% of the time. If there’s not a heavy mechanic happening until 30~60 seconds later, a WHM (or Di AST) casts Medica II/Di Aspected Helios instead of multiple back-to-back non-HoT AOE heals, and allows the HoTs to tick everyone up to full or to survivable HP levels. They conserve MP from not doubling/tripling up on non-HoT AOE heals, and they can put that MP towards more DPS.
The only time people need to be topped is if there is a heavy mechanic coming—but, even then, if you’re working with a shield healer, you can learn just how much mitigation you can get away with, and how low people can be to survive something like Final Omega’s Ion Efflux. It’s trial and error, but you can live heavy mechanics without being 100% if you utilize mitigation abilities (including mitigation that comes from tanks or ranged DPS, like Divine Veil, Shake it Off, Troubadour, and Addle—and then HoTs can be used to tick players up to full while you DPS the boss (provided that you haven’t planned an oGCD AOE heal there instead—healing is planned in things like Savage and Ultimate; it’s not reactive).
I don’t play WHM at any optimized level (I mostly just derp around on it in Mentor Roulette, Raid Roulette, and Alliance Roulette), but PoM seems to be more of a DPS cooldown than a healer one unless things really start to head south (I could be wrong, though, so there’s my disclaimer).Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
That being said, what you’ve said here could apply to things like Largesse—but both still have their functions. They just don’t seem to be in line with what you personally want them to be. Again, your CD usage is all planned in high-end content. You have a set point where you use Largesse (on all healers). SCHs have set points where they use Indom. ASTs have specific timings for Earthly Star. They aren’t YOLO beyond when you’re doing fresh prog and figuring out said timings—timings all vary depending on your comp and what other tools your raid members have to offer, so one static may use different healing cooldowns at specific moments from another static.
You still have to be mindful about your MP even on WHM. Believe it or not, I’ve seen WHMs bottom out because they 1. Don’t know how to properly play the job, and seem to think the only healing they need to do is Medica II > Medica II > Medica II > ad nauseum, and 2. They don’t utilize their tools of Lucid, Assize, and Thin Air.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
Thin Air is pretty nice for heal-heavy moments so that you don’t drain too much of your resources. I’m not a pro-WHM by any stretch, but I use it in a situation like Thundergod Cid’s Cleansing Strike: Thin Air > Cure III > Cure III > Plenary is usually what I do when I’m soloing that heal (because people are generally smart enough to stay stacked for that mechanic, I’ve actually found a good use for Cure III over Medica spam). Thin Air saves me 4,560 MP in that scenario (plus more if I’m able to get a few Stone IV casts out during its duration). Hey, I’ll take that. Thin Air is also good to use if you have to throw out multiple Raises. Just getting out 2 Raises under it is 7,200 MP.
It functions similarly to Lightspeed, in that you utilize it when you have to spend a lot of resources, and you use it to mitigate the drain it does to your MP. A part of AST optimization is optimizing Lightspeed during periods of heavy healing, because AST has serious MP problems this expansion. LS usage changes on a fight-by-fight basis, and I’d imagine that Thin Air does as well.
I’ll give you that WHM has the best MP economy of the three healers; but if you fail to actually manage it, you will run into problems. Also if you have a party of people that love to stand in crap, you’ll need to be more careful with your resources so you can use them to babysit (especially when you have that physical ranged that doesn’t know what Refresh is).
Holy Spam is also another good use of Thin Air. I pop it during trash usually so I can Holy at 0 cost for 10 seconds. Lightspeed can be used similarly during Gravity spam.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
If your Savage DPS checks are hanging on the DPS of a healer to clear, the problem is NOT that Presence of Mind is currently on CD. The problem is either 1. You had WAY too many deaths and half of your raid has Weakness/Brink of Death, since DPS checks (and enrages) in current Savage are extremely lenient, or 2. Your DPS are just trash, and you should probably replace them with DPS that actually fulfill their role’s most basic function.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
PoM and Thin Air are not skills that WHM are reliant on to the point where it cannot function without them. But that doesn’t mean that the skills don’t fulfill a purpose within the entirety of the job’s kit.
This is honestly the only thing you’ve said in this thread that I can agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
I may not have healed this tier of Savage (simply because I’ve been super lazy about going in and doing some learning parties), but I have participated in past tiers on all three healers. I’ve also participated in and cleared every tier this expansion, and I’ve cleared UwU. The DPS checks in Savage are not so tight that you’re relying on a WHM with PoM off-cooldown to meet them.Quote:
Originally Posted by CelestaRosa
That being said, you keep talking about Savage, so I have to ask: do YOU participate in Savage? Have you ever healed any Savage floor? I want to know, because you keep bringing up the content, and I want to know if you actually have any experience with it.
I had a post written with more well-thought out responses to all of your changes, but it was also very long and I lost it because my browser refreshed. RIP. I don’t feel like typing it all out again, but I will gladly do so if you’re curious as to what I had to say. -
03-29-2019, 09:33 PMSeraphor
I don't think WHM needs a 'full' rework.
With a few tweaks and additions, you could quite significantly change it up.
For example:
Shell
30s cooldown.
Bestow a 10% damage resistance buff on target for 15s.
Additional effect: Magic damage received by target has a 20% chance of granting you a Lily.
Protect
60s cooldown.
Bestow a 5% damage resistant buff on all party members in range for 30s.
Additional effect: Physical damage received by targets has a 10% chance of granting them a confession stack.
(Shell/Protect would stack with each other)
Lilies are generated only by Medica and Medica II, or by hits received via Shell.
Lilies are only spent when using Cure, Cure II or Cure III.
1 Lily = Cast time of Cure/II/III reduced by 0.5s
2 Lilies = Cast time reduced by 1.5s
3 Lilies = Cast time reduced to 0.
This would give WHM some useful utility in Shell/Protect, and the other healers losing Protect would give WHM some edge over them. They would interact with their Lily mechanic, which in turn would be useful in granting mobility.
Mechanically, it’s not a major shift to the way they function, Lilies are still pretty much passive but with a greater effect, it’s just two additional cooldowns, and WHM doesn’t have enough buttons as it is if you ask me. -
03-30-2019, 06:39 AMlordcruxisSo, realistically, you're not going to be hit with more that two magic hits within a 15s window, so at best you have around a 36% chance of getting a lily without spamming medica/2. This change doesn't really do anything, they have pretty much a null impact on whm playstyle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraphor
Also, there is essentially never raidwide physical damage, making protect pretty worthless. You made an expanded bole with a side effect that will never proc. -
03-30-2019, 07:02 AMEloah
As a SCH main I feel I am not one to judge the state of WHM. However, I do have some suggestions.
1: Please leave the oGCD heals for SCH as it works with our kit and solidifies our identity.
2: WHM needs a water spell, a OGCD one, a GCD one, a ground marker, whatever, they need a water spell.
3: Repose needs to be removed from the main tool kit. As well as Sleep from BLM. Repose/Sleep needs to be made a role action. As it stands WHM is the only healer with any form of crowd control. The CC abilities that all Casters/Healers have should be made into role actions so that this frees up an ability slot for something new.
4: WHM needs protect back, but not the original version. Protect is an issue as it was only left in because it was iconic, and not because it was useful. WHMs need an iconic version of Protect all to themselves.
That's all I can think of for now. -
03-30-2019, 08:05 AMOrbusThat's probably intentional.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcruxis
I recall hearing that they don't like protect since it essentially forces them to design all dungeons and bosses around it, and would become an especially bad problem with people raised during the fight since it was physical and they only barely survive with protect, it just turns into a straight up one shot without it, which people just ressed wont.
Don't be surprised if it's removed or completely changed in ShB. -
03-30-2019, 03:04 PMTintThe problem with this identity is that it causes the balance issue WHM is suffering under.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
While SCH can freely dps and uses his off-GCDs to heal, WHM has to use his GCDs to heal wich cuts into his dps output. And without any support skills WHMs dps is all he can bring to the table.
SCH simply can't have support skills, off-GCD heals AND a fairy wich further reduces the amount of GCDs you have to spend on healing. Where is the trade-off?
Hm, is there anything left we can take away from WHM and give it the other healers? Let's think about it... CROWD CONTROL! Yes, nobody needs it anyway, but I demand it NOW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
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03-30-2019, 08:11 PMSeraphorThen change the numbers...Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcruxis
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03-30-2019, 08:12 PMSeraphor
Seriously, lilies are crap, my suggestion is 1000x better, and you shut it down based on the value of a hypothetical proc rate...
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03-30-2019, 09:45 PMEloahYou aren't incorrect, though, there are other factors in what you mentioned. SCH's main form of damage is DoT, so they have to wait for the full potency to be applied, in addition to their filler spell having the lowest potency. Plus SCH has the lowest base heal of the 3 healers, they don't have a second tier heal, and they have higher MP costs. But combined with oGCD heals and the fairy, the kit works effectively.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
WHM, and to a small degree AST, uses HoTs as their main healing gimmick, they have the strongest base heal, the strongest second tier heal, and various AoE heals. Practically all of their healing spells are able to be buffed, and at later levels have decent MP management. Their DPS is also the strongest, with the strongest filler spell and the strongest AoE.
WHM main issue isn't their healing kit as a whole, per SE, it's that healing is all they offer. You are correct that at the current time DPS is all they can offer. But they have the best burst of the 3.
I only suggested this since the CC skills are just awful, and shouldn't take up a slot that could go towards a more useful skill. SE removed heavy from a lot of skills and made it a role action, so why not do that with bind and sleep. I am all for giving them back Protect, since as it is now, it's basically pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint