Please stop crying that Dancer is a range dps

One thing about this game is that balance is a thing devs need to keep in mind. The choices of what jobs are coming out are made years in advance. The fact that we got the jobs we did this time was to fill in the voids we are missing. And before anyone says it yes we have 4 tanks, we also have 4 melee Dps. I bet in 6.0 we will get a caster and healer. Also when it comes to healers they are the hardest to balance (no not tanks).
I’m just tired of seeing all these crying on the forums

I feel for healer mains who now will go two expansions without a new job. No other type of player has had to wait this long (and I do consider DPS as separate roles, magical, melee, and ranged physical)

But I do appreciate that dancer is remaining true to its earlier iterations like it was in FFVI and FFT. And I really do hope that healers get a new job sooner rather than later (my hope for this addition is Chemist)

Additionally this does set the devs up well for future job creation being able to alternate a tank and healer job every expansion and rotate between the three DPS types to release alongside them.

You have 10 DPS to choose from, and they fulfill the same role when they queuing for duty roulette and trials, Dancer could have been a healer that uses range attacks and dances for heals, it would have been something truly unique from the other healers.

DPS

4 melee physical, 3 ranged physical, 3 ranged magic

Healer

0 melee physical, 0 ranged physical, 3 ranged magic



A ranged physical healer could have break that mold, IT could have been DANCER, we really need variety among the three healers a final Fantasy XIV and dancer COULD have been just that.

Lot of "could haves".

Thanks, I will be here all week

Tbh I hate that dancer is a dps too. I wanted the next ranger to be a two pistol user. A practitioner of gun fu. A follower of John Woo. A dual gunner, if you will.

But nah we're stuck with Axel and now an undefined part of the healer community is erupting with salty rage. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Tryzn

I’m just tired of seeing all these crying on the forums

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And the best way to solve this is to add to the pile, right?

I don't hate that Dancer is a DPS. I'd argue that it makes a lot more sense than healer.

I think most people are upset there isn't a healer at all, not that Dancer specifically isn't one.

I would not have been interested in the aesthetic of a dancer healer.

I just want White Mage to get something that makes it stand out already. What does White Mage currently have? Better MP management? Stronger heals? Yeah lot of good is that going to do you when every piece of content is meant to be beatable with every healer combo.
Aside from expecting deaths, there is no reason to take a White Mage over the other two healers, and even then, a Red Mage does reviving better anyway.

So let's see White Mage get their own party utility to play with (or just dealing more damage than the other healers), THEN worry about a new healer.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

You have 10 DPS to choose from, and they fulfill the same role when they queuing for duty roulette and trials

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But they don't fulfill the same role in anything higher. Party composition is 2 tanks/ 2 healers / 2 melee / 1 physical range / 1 magical range. And yes, your party suffers if you change that composition (3 melee particularly doesn't work). Considering the breakdown of 3 tanks / 3 healers / 4 melee / 2 physical ranged / 3 casters, it makes sense why they would want to make dancer physical ranged. Oh and I'm not just speculating, that is literally the reasoning that the devs gave as to why Dancer is the way it is.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Healer

0 melee physical, 0 ranged physical, 3 ranged magic

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Theres a reason for that, melee physical and ranged physical healers aren't a thing, and is something you just made up. Healers are Healers. Ranged physical DPS, Caster DPS, and melee DPS are all designed very differently and do perform different roles that mostly require that role to be taken in order to be competent.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Theres a reason for that, melee physical and ranged physical healers aren't a thing, and is something you just made up. Healers are Healers. Ranged physical DPS, Caster DPS, and melee DPS are all designed very differently and do perform different roles that mostly require that role to be taken in order to be competent.

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Melee, Ranger and Caster describe different play-styles, not roles, they're all still DPS.

A melee attacks from close range.
A ranger attacks from far away.
A caster attacks from far away while standing still.

That is what truly differentiates the DPS "roles". Anything that they bring outside of that is arbitrary and could be altered without really effecting how they fundamentally play.

All existing healers play like 'casters' just like all existing tanks play like 'melee DPS'.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Melee, Ranger and Caster describe different play-styles, not roles, they're all still DPS.

A melee attacks from close range.
A ranger attacks from far away.
A caster attacks from far away while standing still.

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Ranged DPS are the closest this game gets to a support role. DPS mechanics are usually taken by them due to their mobility and lower personal DPS. Playstyle or not, they are still "required" as part of the composition due to what they bring that the other two types don't, and because of this it makes sense to give them more options than just 2.

This isn't my opinion, its what the devs said was their reasoning.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...uI/mobilebasic This is MrHappy's direct interview with Yoshi P that outright states what I said in the above post, and also gives deeper reasoning as to why the two roles were chosen and why healer specifically wasn't. (Question 3)

Personally if it were up to me we would stop referring to them as range physical dps ad instead just refer to them as support dps, range physical is a mouthful.

Anyways with that said the reason we make the distinction in the first place is important reguardless if they are all dps, while normally it wont matter in normal content, when it comes to high end content this makes a difference.

Melee dps is the groups main source of single target damage and is balanced as such.

Caster dps is for aoe damage, there there to help deal with groups of adds.

Range physical dps is for party support.

Its important to understand range dps are difficult to balance because how important having extra resources can be (its why it is the role always desired to have at least one of.) By adding a third range dps they can now get a better idea of how they wish to balance this role in parties.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

I don't hate that Dancer is a DPS. I'd argue that it makes a lot more sense than healer.

I think most people are upset there isn't a healer at all, not that Dancer specifically isn't one.

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Agree with this.

But I also think this gives us more hope for healer reworks.
They could have given us a fourth healer and kept the existing healers relatively the same, but WHM is in dire need of an overhaul in order to remain relevant in the direction this game is going.
With sufficient reworks, we could essentially be getting 'new' healers in the form of 'new' WHM and possibly SCH.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

I think most people are upset there isn't a healer at all, not that Dancer specifically isn't one.

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actually I like dancer being range-whatever. and im wondering if that frees the way for a non-mp healer like Alchemist in Final Fantasy Tactics.. throwing potions and buff/debuff elixir could be really smooth in FF14 - and they would absolutely have their own identity : o

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Originally Posted by Neela

actually I like dancer being range-whatever. and im wondering if that frees the way for a non-mp healer like Alchemist in Final Fantasy Tactics.. throwing potions and buff/debuff elixir could be really smooth in FF14 - and they would absolutely have their own identity : o

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I am in 100% agreement with this. I want the new healer to be super unique have mechanics that actually make sense for healing purposes. Throwing things at enemies to heal your party? Is dancer a by-proxy vampire?

A non-mp healer would be really cool, and I am definitely on board with Alchemist in this capacity.

I quite like the idea of dancer is range dps, it is always a buff/debuff role. It fit into dps more than heal role in FFXIV setting.
However, I quite appreciate if we got a new heal that is not another copy and paste, or I will be most appreciated if they finally sort out the identity crisis, i.e. complete rework of WHM or AST or both

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Originally Posted by Neela

actually I like dancer being range-whatever. and im wondering if that frees the way for a non-mp healer like Alchemist in Final Fantasy Tactics.. throwing potions and buff/debuff elixir could be really smooth in FF14 - and they would absolutely have their own identity : o

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Chemist with throwing potion will be epic

I’m not upset that dancer isn’t a healer because I’m not a healer. But I can absolutely see why people thought it would be a healer and why they’d want it to be a healer.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

Dancer could have been a healer that uses range attacks and dances for heals, it would have been something truly unique from the other healers.

A ranged physical healer could have break that mold, IT could have been DANCER, we really need variety among the three healers a final Fantasy XIV and dancer COULD have been just that.

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This is the main one I think. Dancer could have been a healer, it has the tools to fulfill that role. If you look at its ffxi iteration (which yes was a support dps but ffxi had a lot more fluidity in its role design) with things like drain samba (party wide bloodbath), curing, healing and divine waltzes (essentially cure, esuna and medica respectively). While using throwing weaponskills, steps and flourishes for dps it had all the necessary tools to fulfill that role and would be doing it in a way completely unique to any of the existing healers.

This compounded by the fact there hasn’t been a new healer since HW would have set expectations high, so releasing a job with that kind of healing kit history as a dps role would definitely come as a kick to the nuts.

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Originally Posted by Aeliott

I don't hate that Dancer is a DPS. I'd argue that it makes a lot more sense than healer.

I think most people are upset there isn't a healer at all, not that Dancer specifically isn't one.

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I’d disagree with this. It plays a part in it that people wanted a healer but I think a job that could have been a healer like dancer getting released as a dps made it worse. If it was a different dps like a crossbow or a pistol user that would have been one thing, but it’s the fact it’s a dps that has this possibility to be a healer that really doubles down on the wound.

There Nothing in Shadowbringers For me Except Level 80. I'm not planning on doing Dancer or Gunbreaker. Then the two new Races don't interest me at all. Just working on the Jobs I have.

Now, personally I'm with the post above me somewhere that I'm more angry that there's no healer rather than dancer being a healer. But the only reason I had to respond to this thread is because of this post that reeks of condescending ignorance.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Theres a reason for that, melee physical and ranged physical healers aren't a thing, and is something you just made up. Healers are Healers. Ranged physical DPS, Caster DPS, and melee DPS are all designed very differently and do perform different roles that mostly require that role to be taken in order to be competent.

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Really now? They aren't a thing? Made up completely are they? Did you spend the like... 5 minutes on Google it may have taken you to check your lack of information before you spouted your nonsense?

Melee Healers (Just from my personal experience with MMOs, there are more.)
Friar [Dark Age of Camelot]
Warrior Priest [Warhammer Online]
Disciple of Khaine [Warhammer Online]
Inquisitor [EQ 2 -- with AAs and such, but still]
Chanter [AION]

Here is a forum talking about some of people's favorite Melee healers and the pros/cons of some.
Something of an oddity for something that doesn't exist, wouldn't you say?
Here's another one imagine that.

And to cap off the melee healer section how about I mention The Final Fantasy XI Dancer imagine that... a melee healer and support class in a Final Fantasy game... with the same name of the job that we are discussing shouldn't be a healer.

Ranged Physical Using Healers
Tyrande [Heroes of the Storm]
Ana [Overwatch; Heroes of the Storm] (Who heals with a freaking SNIPER RIFLE I might add)
Spellslinger [Wild Star]

I'm sure there are more out there too, do I really need to go on though? I think I've established that these playstyles for healers do, indeed, exist.

While everyone else is crying over it I'll be playing my dancer

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Originally Posted by XenociderOmega

While everyone else is crying over it I'll be playing my dancer

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can't wait to see openworld dance-battles in all the citys... they should get a dance-dance-revolution minigame, like bards got their instruments :3

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

But they don't fulfill the same role in anything higher. Party composition is 2 tanks/ 2 healers / 2 melee / 1 physical range / 1 magical range. And yes, your party suffers if you change that composition (3 melee particularly doesn't work). Considering the breakdown of 3 tanks / 3 healers / 4 melee / 2 physical ranged / 3 casters, it makes sense why they would want to make dancer physical ranged. Oh and I'm not just speculating, that is literally the reasoning that the devs gave as to why Dancer is the way it is.

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Party composition is 2 tanks/2 healers/2 melee/1 physical range/1 caster, sure. So explain to me why the physical range get 3 jobs for 1 slot and the healers get 3 jobs for 2 slots.

I'm not against Dancer being a ranged DPS - I think it's a cool idea, actually - but I am against a ranged DPS coming at the expense of a healer when the healer role needed a new job more.

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Warrior Priest [Warhammer Online]
Disciple of Khaine [Warhammer Online].

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These were best played as chalice holding healers, AKA traditional ranged magic healers.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I’d disagree with this. It plays a part in it that people wanted a healer but I think a job that could have been a healer like dancer getting released as a dps made it worse. If it was a different dps like a crossbow or a pistol user that would have been one thing, but it’s the fact it’s a dps that has this possibility to be a healer that really doubles down on the wound.

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I disagree for the same logic though. I think a job that could have been a ranged would be worse, since there are several more options for healer to choose from, but ranged DPS is... actually quite difficult to come up with more things for. Especially without treading on machinists toes with more firearms.

So forget the fact that dps are never balanced (at the very least beginning of expansions) and tanks as well but here we are getting another dps and tank. Whether or not a Physical dps was needed is not my point, using excuses of "balance" is.
The Yoshi P interview with Mr Happy is making it sound more like because of the changes they are making to healers, 6.0 could very well be a dps only expansion expansion again.
At least i throw healers a bone..

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Originally Posted by Menae

Party composition is 2 tanks/2 healers/2 melee/1 physical range/1 caster, sure. So explain to me why the physical range get 3 jobs for 1 slot and the healers get 3 jobs for 2 slots.

I'm not against Dancer being a ranged DPS - I think it's a cool idea, actually - but I am against a ranged DPS coming at the expense of a healer when the healer role needed a new job more.

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I don’t understand this mentality. Healers needed a new job more? Ranged physical only had two jobs to select from so if someone needed a job more it would be them. However, at this point no one “needs” new job.

I am happy with route they are taking. Fix the current healers then later give us a healer with a different playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Menae

I'm not against Dancer being a ranged DPS - I think it's a cool idea, actually - but I am against a ranged DPS coming at the expense of a healer when the healer role needed a new job more.

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I honestly don't think that healers need a new job. At least right now. In all fairness ranged DPS needed a new job more, since they only have 2 to choose from and (in their current iterations) only one of the jobs is fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Tbh I hate that dancer is a dps too. I wanted the next ranger to be a two pistol user. A practitioner of gun fu. A follower of John Woo. A dual gunner, if you will.

But nah we're stuck with Axel and now an undefined part of the healer community is erupting with salty rage. *shrug*

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We will never get a dual pistol user, or even a musketeer soldier type. Why? Because they gave MCH all types of guns, ranging from tiny pistols to dual barrel shotguns and giant Allagan hand cannons that have no right being wielded one handed! Dancer with dual shakrams is the closest we will ever get. I am just glad we got it! I was hoping for it to turn out just like it did, but I never imagined it would check all my imaginary boxes like it has. I was also hoping for a surprise Chemist announcement for healers, but I guess my AST star readings were off.

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Originally Posted by Menae

I'm not against Dancer being a ranged DPS - I think it's a cool idea, actually - but I am against a ranged DPS coming at the expense of a healer when the healer role needed a new job more.

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You are assuming that it would have taken the same amount of time to make a new healer instead of what may very well be a BRD variant with different animations? I guess they could just redress an existing healer but then people WILL complain. Also, and this is something that irks me. As a MCH and BRD player its also been four years since a physical ranged DPS job was released! At least there are three healer jobs compared to ranged physicals two. As a new players its not as bad for me, but taking the "we are put upon" position in an argument always fails when someone else has been put upon for more or longer.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

You have 10 DPS to choose from, and they fulfill the same role when they queuing for duty roulette and trials

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Me as a physical range dps main, I'm happy with this decision. Quite boring having only two job to choose from in this category. True we have a lot of dps but I'm not a melee or magic dps player.

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Because they gave MCH all types of guns, ranging from tiny pistols to dual barrel shotguns and giant Allagan hand cannons that have no right being wielded one handed!

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I'm confused. I was under the assumption that MCH was only using a musket with a gauss rifle at best and a couple turrets. Where are these other weapons (shotguns, pistols, hand cannons, etc.) in their kit or else implicated at because I don't see any real reason they couldn't add in a ranged dps that uses smaller firearms in a different fashion to make them stand out from their musket sibling.

As an example, isn't there some maid in FF history who runs around with dual pistols like she's a ninja with equal skill? As well as the option of having a ranged dps who literally can use magitek to fight with like in older FF games or that one heavy artillery chick who runs around with a giant cannon in her hands like its no big deal.