EXP Rewards After Hitting Level Cap

I love the world and story of FFXIV. Seeing new places, meeting new characters, uncovering mysteries - it’s all good stuff. I even started reading the Encyclopedia Eorzea and getting into all the lore makes me want to dive into FFXIV even more. But I’m in a bit of a pickle. As much as I love the story 'n stuff, the gameplay kinda stinks. I think it's a big pile of doo-doo.

Now, before you start disagreeing with me, try to look at it from the perspective of a filthy casual who has no interest in endgame raids and can barely keep up with the main scenario. For hundreds of hours, I’ve been fighting basically the same enemies that require no skill, no strategy, nothing. They may look different in each new area, but they certainly don’t make me play differently. I can easily get through the vast majority of combat encounters by spamming one or two of my abilities. With my eyes closed. Quest objectives don’t fare much better in terms of design, as they’re mostly just a bland, repetitive mix of various fetch tasks.

Here’s the thing though: I think that’s actually fine. Or at least, it’s exactly what I expect from an MMO. However, what I also expect from an MMO, is some kind of reward to keep me going. Some juicy skinner box treadmill that keeps the degenerate part of my brain entertained so the other parts can enjoy the pretty graphics and intricate story. Some dopamine to make me feel like I actually achieve something by gathering flowers for some random kid. Story as a reward is nice, but I’m talking level-ups, abilities, weapons, armor - all that shiny stuff!

So… what’s the idea here, SE? Am I supposed to grind away dozens of hours to get another job up to level 65+ that I’m never going to play, just so I can dump the quest EXP there? Or should I stop treating FFXIV like an actual game and look at it as a semi-interactive novel?

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Tl;dr: Wouldn’t it be nice to get something for the EXP we gain after hitting the level cap? Maybe even just vanity stuff like mounts, minions, glamour, et cetera?

you're in too small a niche.

hunts are designed for you, more specifically hunt bills.

and other casual level cap stuff already give you tomes to buy things, don't see why it needs to do anything with XP on top of that.

I've always felt there could be something from a cosmetic merit system, can even give it a cute sphere/crystal/XII grid - where you unlock these visual customization that allow you to look different than someone else without giving an edge that makes it painful to arrive late to the game.

Just in case someone is unfamiliar with what merit systems are. A merit system takes EXP you no longer earn at cap and adds them to a pool that you can spend on specific things like +5 strength, +10 seconds to burn, and so forth. Here I'm suggesting a cosmetic merit system where you take your exp and purchase unique things that don't affect gameplay but do affect how you present yourself (like changing an ability look or giving you very special equipment). Doesn't have to be limited to your character though, there could be a tab for general for emotes, mounts, etc. As for sphere grid, crystarium, and the license board (FFXII) they're just different ways to represent level progression - and since this is just for cosmetics the devs could have fun on presentation if they wanted.

• Did you want that smokey dark knight effect for tank stance? Well you can now.
• That female/male weapon stance, you want it? Go for it.
• Were you a huge fan of Golbez, that black mage with plate armor? We made a special exception on no heavy metal, just for you :).
• Holy breastplate? Yes, whm you can have.
• Not enough praising the sun Paladin? Have some sunlight lance instead of shield lob (bolts of holy light being tossed at the enemy).

Etc

Could be other things as well like permanently unlocking a dye color, that'd keep some people going for literal days+ worth of time just so they could unlock all the colors lol.

The description of FFXIV gameplay made me a bit sad though, as an aside :(

Edit: Just to clarify - personally I have fun; although, I do think exp having a use past cap would be neat

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you're in too small a niche.

hunts are designed for you, more specifically hunt bills.

and other casual level cap stuff already give you tomes to buy things, don't see why it needs to do anything with XP on top of that.

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I’m having a hard time believing that I’m a niche. I’m the poster child for pretty much every new player that gets into FFXIV. We go through the game exactly as we're told by the trail of quests, but then hit the level cap long before we reached the end of the line. I don’t know how many new players this game gets, but even if it’s not a lot… Well, all the more reason to look into making the game appealing to them, right? Otherwise FFXIV would die faster than you can say “Uhhh, look, a pretty new F2P MMO!”

As for hunts and side activities, that’s pretty much the opposite of what I’m asking for. All I want is to enjoy the main scenario as well as the associated side quests and get some kind of reward from them. I don’t need even more stuff to do on top of that.

I've never liked the treadmill approach to retaining players. It just creates a long list of potentially boring things that you need to do before you can get an item that you might find interesting. I agree that the gameplay can be overly simple and this is where I would try to change things. I know that some people want more things to get, but I find that this just makes the experience hollow. I want to do things that are interesting, rather than slog through something generic for a pretty trivial reward and I would prefer if the devs put more effort into making the game fun to play in place of trying to motivate us to do things that we otherwise wouldn't care about.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I've always felt there could be something from a cosmetic merit system, can even give it a cute sphere/crystal/XII grid - where you unlock these visual customization that allow you to look different than someone else without giving an edge that makes it painful to arrive late to the game.
[...]

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Yeah, stat increases or other gameplay benefits would certainly be divisive, although I think it there could be a way to make it work. But even keeping it purely visual would be fine by me. The problem there, of course, is that every item that's obtainable in-game is one less item they can sell on the mog station. But, from my perspective, the game desperately needs something to keep players engaged until they reach the endgame.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

The description of FFXIV gameplay made me a bit sad though, as an aside :(

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Well, yeah, me too. But I don't think it's an unfair description. It's always fun to get into a new dungeon or one of the special story battles, but that's not what I'm doing for the majority of my playtime. What I'm doing 90+% of the time is as brainless as going through Diablo III on the lowest difficulty. Just without the loot and EXP.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

I’m having a hard time believing that I’m a niche. I’m the poster child for pretty much every new player that gets into FFXIV. We go through the game exactly as we're told by the trail of quests, but then hit the level cap long before we reached the end of the line.

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you are that niche because you're refusing for some reason to spread that extra XP out to other jobs. XIV is designed for multiple jobs and the MSQ + all sidequests is more than enough for 2 jobs.

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Originally Posted by PyurBlue

I've never liked the treadmill approach to retaining players. It just creates a long list of potentially boring things that you need to do before you can get an item that you might find interesting. I agree that the gameplay can be overly simple and this is where I would try to change things. I know that some people want more things to get, but I find that this just makes the experience hollow. I want to do things that are interesting, rather than slog through something generic for a pretty trivial reward and I would prefer if the devs put more effort into making the game fun to play in place of trying to motivate us to do things that we otherwise wouldn't care about.

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I agree to your general sentiment, but my crystal ball tells me that they are never ever going to make the gameplay of the main scenario, or the battle system in general, any more challenging than it is right now. Maybe in FFXVII Online, but not in XIV.
I still want to see the rest of the story though, so I'll take better rewards over, well, getting nothing at all.

At most they should increase the rewarded Gil like WoW does with gold after hitting level cap. I'm reluctant to have the devs try to add anything more from FFXI, with things like Eureka trying to add XI's elemental resists and failing like it did... I'm becoming more of the mind of if you want stuff from FFXI just go play it. I'd rather they keep XIV it's own thing.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you are that niche because you're refusing for some reason to spread that extra XP out to other jobs. XIV is designed for multiple jobs and the MSQ + all sidequests is more than enough for 2 jobs.

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So, what you're telling me, is that the game is designed for me to go through the story until I hit the level cap, drop everything I was doing right there and then, go back to level 1 with another job, tediously grind that up to the level of my current main scenario quest, and then rinse and repeat once that new job also hits the cap?

Come on now, that's just bad game design. You know it, I know it, SE knows it. Why do you think they dropped the requirement to level up multiple classes to unlock jobs in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Efrye

So, what you're telling me, is that the game is designed for me to go through the story until I hit the level cap, drop everything I was doing right there and then, go back to level 1 with another job, tediously grind that up to the level of my current main scenario quest, and then rinse and repeat once that new job also hits the cap?

Come on now, that's just bad game design. You know it, I know it, SE knows it. Why do you think they dropped the requirement to level up multiple classes to unlock jobs in the first place?

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No, you go through the MSQ and leave the sidequests behind for when you want to level more jobs.

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Originally Posted by JohnSpawnVFX

No, you go through the MSQ and leave the sidequests behind for when you want to level more jobs.

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The side quests usually tie in with what's happening in the MSQ, so I don't think they're meant to be done separately. At least it's likely not what the story team had in mind for them.

Not to mention that it's rather unpractical to find quests that match the level of whatever job you're currently playing as. Wouldn't you have to teleport to each map and check the quest markers one by one? Surely you'd agree that that's not exactly well designed and worthy of improvement, right?

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I've always felt there could be something from a cosmetic merit system, can even give it a cute sphere/crystal/XII grid - where you unlock these visual customization that allow you to look different than someone else without giving an edge that makes it painful to arrive late to the game.

Just encase someone is unfamiliar with what merit systems are. A merit system takes EXP you no longer earn at cap and adds them to a pool that you can spend on specific things like +5 strength, +10 seconds to burn, and so forth. Here I'm suggesting a cosmetic merit system where you take your exp and purchase unique things that don't affect gameplay but do affect how you present yourself (like changing an ability look or giving you very special equipment). Doesn't have to be limited to your character though, there could be a tab for general for emotes, mounts, etc. As for sphere grid, crystarium, and the license board (FFXII) they're just different ways to represent level progression - and since this is just for cosmetics the devs could have fun on presentation if they wanted.

• Did you want that smokey dark knight effect for tank stance? Well you can now.
• That female/male weapon stance, you want it? Go for it.
• Were you a huge fan of Golbez, that black mage with plate armor? We made a special exception on no heavy metal, just for you :).
• Holy breastplate? Yes, whm you can have.
• Not enough praising the sun Paladin? Have some sunlight lance instead of shield lob (bolts of holy light being tossed at the enemy).

Etc

Could be other things as well like permanently unlocking a dye color, that'd keep some people going for literal days+ worth of time just so they could unlock all the colors lol.

The description of FFXIV gameplay made me a bit sad though, as an aside :(

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No disrespect because some of those things you listed sound cool. But one of my issues with this game is everything is cosmetic for the most part.

1. Got a cool armor from a raid or dungeon? Well in a patch or two the stats will suck and it is cosmetic from then on.
2. Got a cool egi glamour? Well hope you like it because you are probably never getting new egis. Cosmetic
3. Capped all your tombstone gear? Well enjoy it because in a patch or two your gear stats will be obsolete and it will be cosmetic.
4. Finished progression on one character and bored? Well go do something else or wait till the next patch so you can start a new cosmetic cycle.
5. Tired of your character's Dragoon looking and playing like 100 other Dragoons? Well it might seem that way because your character is, glamour it. Cosmetic.

Progress, erased, repeat, progress, erased, repeat, progress, erase, repeat, forever and ever and ever.

Sure the point of having a moving goal post is to keep you playing longer. People call it a hamster on a wheel. I don't mind being a hamster on a wheel, all games are meant to waste time.
But I don't like the wheel sending me back in time 3 months before and telling me to do it over. And making my hamster look like a pig or fairy is not gonna change that.
As long as that wheel moves forward at all times, I will spin that wheel happily chasing that piece of cheese 10 miles ahead of me.

Balance and the need for parity has served the game well for the most part in previous years. But this game is no longer a new game, been out since 2010-2011.
It is time for an elder perpetual progression experience system to come to fruition. And funny enough, this game already has systems in place to facilitate that with the numerous logs.
The rewards just need to change from only just being unlocks on achievements and cosmetics, to actually adding character progression via stats and skills.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

you are that niche because you're refusing for some reason to spread that extra XP out to other jobs. XIV is designed for multiple jobs and the MSQ + all sidequests is more than enough for 2 jobs.

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Add to that I don't think most players mind terribly that they're missing out on XP on jobs they're never going to play, as was stated, if your main drive is uncovering the lore and the story. If you care that you're wasting potential experience, and you're doing side quests to see more story, then just swap to another job when you turn in the quest.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

So, what you're telling me, is that the game is designed for me to go through the story until I hit the level cap, drop everything I was doing right there and then, go back to level 1 with another job, tediously grind that up to the level of my current main scenario quest, and then rinse and repeat once that new job also hits the cap?

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not originally, no. originally the MSQ didn't have that much XP, but it's been boosted to that point because lots of people have been skipping the side stuff.

your problem stems from them adding too much XP to the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

Not to mention that it's rather unpractical to find quests that match the level of whatever job you're currently playing as. Wouldn't you have to teleport to each map and check the quest markers one by one? Surely you'd agree that that's not exactly well designed and worthy of improvement, right?

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1-50 it's probably bad like that but the expansion zones are very linear in what levels the sidequests are in each zone.

For example:
Fringes + left side of Peaks 60-61
Ruby Sea 62-63
South Yanxia - 64
Steppes - 65-66
North Yanxia - 67
right side of Peaks - 68
Lochs - 69

they have improved overtime but going back to original ARR stuff to fix that is a ton of work.

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Originally Posted by Sandpark

No disrespect because some of those things you listed sound cool. But

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REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :D

Lol it's fine. I understand your concern, I think for the issues you presented the feelings of course are real like having your progress wiped out. I would suggest that a merit system would be a lot scarier if done non-cosmetically though :P. Longer lasting gear (where the next tier of gear doesn't just invalidate the previous tier, so less stat growing per ilvl maybe) might be good. But I don't think looking for long term stat progression through a merit system would be good, because if it's too in depth the pool is so deep that new players are looking at like 100 hours of grinding to catch up to the power of others.

Besides with a cosmetic merit system they could add things normally impossible, such that it doesn't go over other work. You're not going to be able to unlock a smokey dark knight effect any other way, this is it - there is no invalidation its just an option to pick if you had wanted it (and you get to keep it even if you decided later to turn it off).

I wish I had the option of converting any exp I would get with an uncapped job to other things by mimicking the conversion rate of outdated tomestones to current one.

Sadly, I don't what it should be converted to, even with those rates. Maybe beast tribe rep or loot pouches.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :D

Lol it's fine. I understand your concern, I think for the issues you presented the feelings of course are real like having your progress wiped out. I would suggest that a merit system would be a lot scarier if done non-cosmetically though :P. Longer lasting gear (where the next tier of gear doesn't just invalidate the previous tier, so less stat growing per ilvl maybe) might be good. But I don't think looking for long term stat progression through a merit system would be good, because if it's too in depth the pool is so deep that new players are looking at like 100 hours of grinding to catch up to the power of others.

Besides with a cosmetic merit system they could add things normally impossible, such that it doesn't go over other work. You're not going to be able to unlock a smokey dark knight effect any other way, this is it - there is no invalidation its just an option to pick if you had wanted it (and you get to keep it even if you decided later to turn it off).

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Dangerous but well worth the effort if done right. In my opinion the biggest hurdle for newer players playing with older players is the MSQ and the lack of a level sync option.

In a imaginary world someone who invest 10 hours should reap what someone who invest 1000 hours in an endeavor is fair. But in reality, it is not. Parity does not have to be that strict, as long as they can play the same content for the most part.

A danger with adding perpetual progression is lower level content being obsolete.
Well unless you care about tomestones and cosmetics, the lower level content becomes obsolete anyways by the day until they give you a new reason to revisit.
Be honest.
Are you playing older content because it is fresh or exciting or because there is a carrot for replaying old content?
Do you enjoy getting max level then needing to go back and play level 20 dungeons or level 10 fates with half the toolkit?

You are revisiting lower content on high level jobs because of carrots on a stick and level sync makes it possible.

So what needs to happen to add a perpetual progress/merit/champion point/mastery system and keep the lower level content relevant?

Global change:

1. The option to enter any MSQ quest or dungeon with players or trusts.
2. The MSQ quantity to be truncated slightly so players can reach max level faster.
3. A toggle for auto level sync down. Toggle it on and you are the appropriate level for the content be it open world enemies, fates, sidequests, MSQ or whatever.
4. If you happen to be at the maximum level. When toggling auto sync down into lower level content a merit point experience system is turned on.
5. Doing any activity in any lower level content grants merit points at a granular level similar to standard xp bar.
6. Completing a piece of a log, say a challenge log grants a somewhat larger merit point gain or a different type of merit point, let's call it star point.
7. Complete an entire section of a log grants alot of merit points and star points.
8. Use your merit and star points to unlock various cosmetics, titles, stats, traversal boons, and skill modifiers.

Ok so you added a perpetual xp system. Now what the hell kind of content is all the power going to be used for??
Enter "The Savage World"
Square creates a copy of the Entire Eorzea world, this version is called the Savage World.
If you played FFXI, this concept might make sense to you with the S zones in Abyssea or the Dynamis zones.
Basically upon entering a special teleport or entrance you are transported to an alternate reality of the current zones.
But here in the XIV Savage World, everything is dangerous, deadly, the zones seem darker and grittier, the enemies are powerful enough where you need parties to get around and level or traverse.
There are even new types of enemies in places they were not before, new fates, new hunts, etc, and this applies to dungeons and raids.
The Savage zones are scaled to whatever the current max level is for the playerbase. There is no need for sync, all content is scaled towards the max level.
For instance say the current cap was 70. La Noscea entire zone is 70, Coerthas is 70, Temple of Karn is 70, Temple of the Ancients is 70, yada, yada, yada.
You don't earn experience here just the max form of merit points, let's just call it superstar points, and you can't earn this kind outside of the Savage Worlds.
If they could add souped up or alternate versions of existing gear for high level, that's even better.

I always thought that overflow exp could go to a merit point like system that XI has. Obviously it wouldn’t be anywhere near as grindy, and it wouldn’t have to keep the name or mechanics, I just mean the concept of being able to use exp gained at level cap to further strengthen a character. Especially for players who already have every class at level cap, or simply those who spend a lot of time on their ‘main’ job


That said, I know concepts involving ‘customization’ and ‘illusion of choice’ are anathema to most players. I imagine most people see the word customization and instantly ‘but it’s NOT REAL’. And it’s a legitimate concern, but that doesn’t make it impossible.

Other MMOs I've played have had a storage gimmicks where if you are on a capped character, you build up exp in said storage (to a certain amount) that can be used to fuel EXP into another character or class. This probably wouldn't be terribly difficult to implement if it was a server based function players interact with and our characters can be the multi-job so we can switch to new job and reinteract.

The question is would SE implement something like this clearly knowing it would interfere with the profits from the jump packages. Kinda doubtful there.

As for what the game is designed for, you have many options to choose from and goals to work towards that don't include raiding but if you barely have time to keep up with MSQ, I'm not exactly sure why you're worried about not properly utilizing EXP benefits at level cap. You sound like you dont have time to play anyway.

As someone who has played pretty much constantly since launch and all jobs leveled before they added potd or HoH, I don't see a need to add an exp bonus system like that. It's not hard to level in this game, the most time consuming part is gearing, which is just a means to an end anyway.

Anyone who sees gear as "the end" will be unhappy playing this game with the 6 month gear cycles, but that's never bothered me any.


I still find things to do with everything at 70, and I have over 12000 hours logged on the 1 character I play.

Just try to find something in the game you enjoy. If you can't, find another game. Suggestions are great, but if they never happen, I just see people get bitter over it. There's quite a few of those on the forums that can't let go, even with how bitter they are over the game.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

I love the world and story of FFXIV. Seeing new places, meeting new characters, uncovering mysteries - it’s all good stuff. I even started reading the Encyclopedia Eorzea and getting into all the lore makes me want to dive into FFXIV even more. But I’m in a bit of a pickle. As much as I love the story 'n stuff, the gameplay kinda stinks. I think it's a big pile of doo-doo.

Now, before you start disagreeing with me, try to look at it from the perspective of a filthy casual who has no interest in endgame raids and can barely keep up with the main scenario. For hundreds of hours, I’ve been fighting basically the same enemies that require no skill, no strategy, nothing. They may look different in each new area, but they certainly don’t make me play differently. I can easily get through the vast majority of combat encounters by spamming one or two of my abilities. With my eyes closed. Quest objectives don’t fare much better in terms of design, as they’re mostly just a bland, repetitive mix of various fetch tasks.

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You're giving conflicting information. Someone who can "easily get through the vast majority of combat encounters by spamming one or two abilities with eyes closed" does not seem like someone who can barely keep up with the story.

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Here’s the thing though: I think that’s actually fine. Or at least, it’s exactly what I expect from an MMO. However, what I also expect from an MMO, is some kind of reward to keep me going. Some juicy skinner box treadmill that keeps the degenerate part of my brain entertained so the other parts can enjoy the pretty graphics and intricate story. Some dopamine to make me feel like I actually achieve something by gathering flowers for some random kid. Story as a reward is nice, but I’m talking level-ups, abilities, weapons, armor - all that shiny stuff!

So… what’s the idea here, SE? Am I supposed to grind away dozens of hours to get another job up to level 65+ that I’m never going to play, just so I can dump the quest EXP there? Or should I stop treating FFXIV like an actual game and look at it as a semi-interactive novel?

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Tl;dr: Wouldn’t it be nice to get something for the EXP we gain after hitting the level cap? Maybe even just vanity stuff like mounts, minions, glamour, et cetera?

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There are already quests that give gears, items, currency, mounts, minions, abilities, unlock new features, and of course exp to level up. Obviously not every quest will give all of that as the primary reason for a quest is simply to tell a story.

I still think the leveling roulette needs to be reworked for better rewards.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

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Just try to find something in the game you enjoy. If you can't, find another game. Suggestions are great, but if they never happen, I just see people get bitter over it. There's quite a few of those on the forums that can't let go, even with how bitter they are over the game.

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That's such a strange way of looking at things. This whole forum mostly revolves around feedback, yet it would seem the only feedback that's safe to give is about removing stuff that was recently announced or added. This is not targeted specifically at you, but it appears that whenever someone dares to suggest something new, half the user base breaks out in a cold sweat and desperately tries to come with reasons why the fault is clearly with the player, not with the game. The game is fine! Always has been! And you better don't mention FFXI, or you're immediately exposed as someone who can't let go of the past. (I wonder if I'm the only one who can see the irony in that...)

Anyway. I'm not trying to revolutionize the game here. What I'm suggesting is super basic stuff - most players want some kind of reward for what they're doing. Look at the design of pretty much every single modern AAA game. I'm not talking about more level cap activities or making it easier to level up. It's simply strange that the one feature that many would say defines an RPG - loot and level-ups - suddenly become irrelevant half-way through the game. Yes, you could switch to other jobs, but as mentioned before, that's an unappealing crutch that even SE clearly doesn't want to force on people. You can't expect average players, who are not extremely committed to the game, to grind a new job to level X just so they can continue the story as intended. That's work, not play. And even if these filthy casuals are not part of your exclusive boys' club, you still want them to keep paying their subs so this game can stay alive.

As someone who's done nearly everything in the game (barring savage/ultimate), I'd love to see something like this. I get all the jobs to cap, and then never touch most of them until the next level cap raise. Something like this could spice up my gameplay a bit, and maybe give me reasons to play on other jobs once and a while.

Recently, I've resorted to making various relics I have no intention of ever using. More content plz. I am so close to unsubbing.

Since gearing up serves a similar purpose to leveling, how would you feel about getting a small amount of uncapped tomestones for every MSQ you do after hitting level cap? Like 5-20 tomestones per quest. I feel like that would not affect overall game balance and it would be a small bonus towards the gear grind that awaits. You could also choose to use those tomes on the materials and music rolls which are already available at the same vendor.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

but it appears that whenever someone dares to suggest something new, half the user base breaks out in a cold sweat and desperately tries to come with reasons why the fault is clearly with the player, not with the game. The game is fine! Always has been! And you better don't mention FFXI, or you're immediately exposed as someone who can't let go of the past. (I wonder if I'm the only one who can see the irony in that...)

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that's not what it is. some of us are just more realistic in what they would do given their track record.

the game might not be fine but that doesn't mean they will make large changes that affect small amounts of people.

and it also is a zero-sum game, resources they put into something like this means resources they won't put into something else. what's not going to happen is SE opening the wallets.

I just don't see the point in a bonus exp system, not because it doesn't do anything, but because, in terms of being able to store xp for other jobs, that would ruin queues even more than now.

People wouldnt have to play tank or healer at all to level them this way.

As for the "merit system", I'd rather those abilities just be given while leveling, instead of requiring obscene amounts of after max level xp to earn (anyone who thinks it wouldn't be a eureka level grind is delusional).

I'm all for adding flavor to the game, but you have to look at it objectively. People hate blue mage as it is. That is what a merit system would be like in this game.

I'd rather see relics and raid weapons start having abilities or effects on them (not armor or set bonuses, as that would just be a mess, but the final weapons in each tier would be balancable and fair imo)

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Originally Posted by linay

You're giving conflicting information. Someone who can "easily get through the vast majority of combat encounters by spamming one or two abilities with eyes closed" does not seem like someone who can barely keep up with the story.

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Completing the MSQ is a huge time commitment, compared to other games. Not being able to keep up has nothing to do with difficulty.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Since gearing up serves a similar purpose to leveling, how would you feel about getting a small amount of uncapped tomestones for every MSQ you do after hitting level cap? Like 5-20 tomestones per quest. I feel like that would not affect overall game balance and it would be a small bonus towards the gear grind that awaits. You could also choose to use those tomes on the materials and music rolls which are already available at the same vendor.

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I think that would be a decent solution, although I'd rather tie it to EXP directly, rather than quest completion. That way you'd also get rewarded for doing fates, roulettes, side quests, et cetera. Like it's supposed to be. ;)

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

that's not what it is. some of us are just more realistic in what they would do given their track record.

the game might not be fine but that doesn't mean they will make large changes that affect small amounts of people.

and it also is a zero-sum game, resources they put into something like this means resources they won't put into something else. what's not going to happen is SE opening the wallets.

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Right, I get that. But I do think that's missing the bigger picture. Obviously, I don't have any inside knowledge of the FFXIV player base. But if it's even remotely similar to almost every other big game, what I'm requesting would not "affect small amounts of people", it would affect the majority. Well, ok, maybe not the majority. The majority probably never even reaches the level cap. But that's my point: You may not notice them, because they're not part of your FC and don't post in the forums, but it's usually the casual players who make up the silent majority of players/subscribers. Ignoring them won't serve anyone.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

Completing the MSQ is a huge time commitment, compared to other games. Not being able to keep up has nothing to do with difficulty.



I think that would be a decent solution, although I'd rather tie it to EXP directly, rather than quest completion. That way you'd also get rewarded for doing fates, roulettes, side quests, et cetera. Like it's supposed to be. ;)


Right, I get that. But I do think that's missing the bigger picture. Obviously, I don't have any inside knowledge of the FFXIV player base. But if it's even remotely similar to almost every other big game, what I'm requesting would not "affect small amounts of people", it would affect the majority. Well, ok, maybe not the majority. The majority probably never even reaches the level cap. But that's my point: You may not notice them, because they're not part of your FC and don't post in the forums, but it's usually the casual players who make up the silent majority of players/subscribers. Ignoring them won't serve anyone.

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I think the biggest flaw in your reasoning is attributing how you feel to how "casuals" feel. Since you are a casual and you feel x way, that must mean that it is a casual way to feel. It's not. I also consider myself to be a very casual player and do not feel, at all, the way you do. I mean I wouldn't object to getting more rewards (who would?) but the feeling that it is in any way necessary to do so to retain casuals is pretty off-base.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

Completing the MSQ is a huge time commitment, compared to other games. Not being able to keep up has nothing to do with difficulty.

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If you barely have time to complete the MSQ, then why are you overleveling it to the point that you see quest EXP that you no longer need since you're at level cap? At level cap, MSQ gives no EXP as far as I know, so you must be talking about the leveling portion of MSQ.

Eureka is the thing you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Since gearing up serves a similar purpose to leveling, how would you feel about getting a small amount of uncapped tomestones for every MSQ you do after hitting level cap? Like 5-20 tomestones per quest. I feel like that would not affect overall game balance and it would be a small bonus towards the gear grind that awaits. You could also choose to use those tomes on the materials and music rolls which are already available at the same vendor.

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That actually sounds fairly decent. Plus, it'd make me motivated to complete any remaining sidequests I have, since I don't touch them because all my jobs are capped.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

Tl;dr: Wouldn’t it be nice to get something for the EXP we gain after hitting the level cap? Maybe even just vanity stuff like mounts, minions, glamour, et cetera?

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Someone has already very likely pointed this out, but you don't start receiving the current tier tomes until at least one combat job reaches max level. And you don't have to be into end game to spend them either. Tomes purchase a hell of a whole lot more things than just gear and augments. One orchestrion roll will set you back nearly the entire 2k max you can have at any given time. With Mendacity, that's easily three days worth of roulettes.

Crafting/gathering classes also can take advantage of the tomes gained by combat jobs, but I don't believe the reverse is true. At least not directly.

Also if you really like glamour, leveling and end game dungeons are both great places to find them. Now it is kind of a bummer that all exp gain isn't turned into tomes, but it has to be that way otherwise no one would run their roulettes, or be less likely to.

I think the achievement system is supposed to be this, they just don't add stuff to it that often and most aren't very rewarding outside of certain things like tank mounts. They could easily add more rewards to it though and have it accumulate whatever they wanted without doing much work, including EXP but they are pretty slow at adding stuff to it.

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Originally Posted by Efrye

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I think I need a better idea of what your self identity as a casual really means in this case.
When someone calls themselves a casual, I think: "So you're here to play through the story, then cancel your sub. When a new expansion gets announced, you resub to catch up on patch story, play the new expansion's story, then cancel sub again. Maybe you don't cancel your sub during wait time for story patches, and you're chilling afk in social spaces." I see a lot of this kind of player every day. After you beat the story, continuing to find other ways to progress actually starts to remove you from the casual end of the spectrum.

As far as exp overflow, I don't see a way to justify any sort of material reward system out of it. People who do actually use the exp to level things would be locked out of them.

Now, if you were to send exp overflow into say... the Rest Bonus. I could get behind that. Get 100k exp from a quest, but it's overflow, so you instead get 100k exp rested bonus, meaning you get +50% exp on other classes until you've earned 100k on those other classes. This would be a nice way of recycling that otherwise wasted exp.