Disciples of Land and Hand in 5.0

So, they plan for some sort of "end-game" for Land and Hand. The one example given is restoration of Holy See of Ishgard.

There are two ways that restoration was done in this game.

The more recent one was with the Doman Enclave where players turned in items for money in a form of "quest"...to a weekly quota. The changes are instanced, meaning that players can have varied progress. That gives every player the possibility of progressing at their own pace and regardless of when they start it. Despite that, these instances allow for multiple people with various progress at once in much the same way as Dravanian Hinterlands work with Alexander.

In the past (before I begun playing though) there was the restoration of Revenant's Toll and Idyllshire, which I believe involved turning in some items from these classes from the entire player population (but I may be wrong). These changes are permanent and the rebuilding done is lost to everyone that begun playing after it. We only see the end result.

Which one do you think it will be? Personally I would hope for it to work like the Enclave as far as instanced go, but of course through the use of items obtained by the gathering/crafting classes instead of various junk. The town on its own is perfectly functional as is so there is no story-driver reason to force a restoration on everybody.


Also, what does that constitute? Apparently Ishgard housing is a possibility. This may suggest that it is, indeed, like Idyllshire and Revenant's Toll though, because it's unlikely they would lock a housing area behind personal instances of land/hand jobs. That being said, the Holy See MAY be an instance, while the housing, since it is a new area entirely, could be simply opened up (and only seen) after some amount of server-wide restoration is done, thus getting the best of both worlds.


But either case, that's a "done and gone" content. So what kind of end-game can there be for the long-term for these classes? And will the people working on Fisher and its quests stop being sadistic? Will there be more "restorations" lined up to keep this "done and go" content from running dry? How will that farm work and does it mean that maybe there will be instanced housings introduced?

What are your opinions and hopes?

We have an endgame for DoL and DoH. Its accessed with books.

Something like the Doman Enclave seems a step sideways, not up.

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Originally Posted by Shadygrove

We have an endgame for DoL and DoH. Its accessed with books.

Something like the Doman Enclave seems a step sideways, not up.

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I'm sorry, but "more recipes/gathering items" is in no way more end-game than the middle-game in my opinion. And if we'd do assume it is, then the "end-game" for crafters/gatherers is limited to being gil-making classes. At that point, why even bother having multiple of them in the game?! Just have one "Crafter" and one "Gatherer" class and be done with it.

Wondering if, based on what they said if through restoration of the Holy See will be adding in Ishgard housing.

I would expect it to be more like Custom Deliveries in that we have to procure/make special items needed for the reconstruction as opposed to essentially vendoring unwanted items. I'll wait until they're ready to share more info with us.

Players didn't contribute to the growth of Mor Dhona and Idyllshire.
They were simply updated each patch.

I wonder if its based on server or individual like doman enclave?

I'm hoping it becomes like a server community effort type of content. Letting max level crafters contribute to a weekly or monthly goal to upgrade/repair Ishgard with it all culminating in unlocking housing for the server. But with how housing is limited in this game that could also create lots of grousing if people who helped didn't get a house while those who never touch a DoL or DoH get themselves one.

My guess is it's more like FC airship building.

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Originally Posted by Shadygrove

We have an endgame for DoL and DoH. Its accessed with books.

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We have no endgame.

Savage and Ultimate raids are endgame for DoW/DoM for example. They're difficult, long term goals you progress towards. We don't have that. Rakshasa and Onishi are something you create in HQ with 2 presses of a macro in cheap melds, cheap food and mostly nq mats. Nothing truly challenges a DoH/DoL.

I'd go with it being similar to the doman enclave style, but instead of donating trash you have to turn-in items like the custom delivery ones.

i will restore ishgard with fish alone!

Echoing it being similar to the Doman Enclave, it will also most likely be instanced, which might also mean that housing in Ishgard won't be a neighborhood/suburb style like it is for other areas, but instead something that your character eventually builds and/or gets rewarded with at a certain point of completion.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

We have no endgame.

Savage and Ultimate raids are endgame for DoW/DoM for example. They're difficult, long term goals you progress towards. We don't have that. Rakshasa and Onishi are something you create in HQ with 2 presses of a macro in cheap melds, cheap food and mostly nq mats. Nothing truly challenges a DoH/DoL.

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I would say fisher does have an endgame. Catching all the big fish is a challenging long term goal, especially the 12 legenadary fish from ARR and SB are a pain (I am still missing 2 of them >.> ). And then you can try to catch even bigger fish to beat your records. There are also achievments, titles and glamour related items locked behind the big fish. To get the glowing rod in HW you had to catch almost every big fish in the game at that time.

I'd go with the collective effort. Handing in gathered stuff or crafted stuff weekly or monthly would give you scripts, gear or whatever. Then each patch will see a step up in the reconstruction (like Mor Dhona or Idyllshire).

The last time they promised anything for DoH we got the quest tied to the Ivalice raids where you needed to make, what was it, bacon bread? I was so disappointed...
I'm imagining a glorified custom deliveries with a more MSQ-related story.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I'm sorry, but "more recipes/gathering items" is in no way more end-game than the middle-game in my opinion. And if we'd do assume it is, then the "end-game" for crafters/gatherers is limited to being gil-making classes. At that point, why even bother having multiple of them in the game?! Just have one "Crafter" and one "Gatherer" class and be done with it.

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In the same way you can argue why have all these combat classes. just boil everything down to 1 tank class, one healer and one dps class.

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Originally Posted by Tint

I would say fisher does have an endgame. Catching all the big fish is a challenging long term goal, especially the 12 legenadary fish from ARR and SB are a pain (I am still missing 2 of them >.> ). And then you can try to catch even bigger fish to beat your records. There are also achievments, titles and glamour related items locked behind the big fish. To get the glowing rod in HW you had to catch almost every big fish in the game at that time.

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Can agree on that. Fishing has a decent endgame, although that's resulted in fishing being barely used in any endgame crafts to keep it all accessible.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

In the same way you can argue why have all these combat classes. just boil everything down to 1 tank class, one healer and one dps class.

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Even with their homogenization, the various classes have differences in how they are played which become more pronounced in harder content.

The land and hand on the other hand lose consistently more of their identity. Careful Synthesis was a weaver skill, but now the best version of it is gotten by every class. Same with Rapid Synthesis. There is nothing unique gotten by any of these classes in the 60-70 content.

On top of that, they all work the exact same to exact same concept.

If they won't be made different through the content, some sort of long-term content, then it does seem pointless to have all of them at once. And that poster suggested that "end-game" being just more recipes that work exactly the same way already is "end-game". Basically they implied that they need no change, nothing new whatsoever.

Though yes, Fisher is actually different from Miner and Botanist.

Perhaps there is nothing unique for each class in SB. I still wouldnt want all classes rolled into one, it would destroy 90% of the fun of it. Also each class has its story attached to it.
It would also destroy player interaction where one person buying stuff from another crafter because he doesnt have it leveled.
Specialists would become useless since there is only one class.
All of this the fault of people complaining they have to be level all classes to craft effectively.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Can agree on that. Fishing has a decent endgame, although that's resulted in fishing being barely used in any endgame crafts to keep it all accessible.

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Wich is a shame, because with spearfishing they have added an accessible way to fish in this expansion. But they have basically abandoned this new feature. We got 2 new fish for spearfishing in the patch cycle, and only 1 of them was actually used for a craft.

Craft 5 lumber to turn in
Craft 5 iron ignots to turn in


Tomorrow you can craft 5 other things.


Please look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

I still wouldnt want all classes rolled into one, it would destroy 90% of the fun of it.

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I know. But you severely misunderstand what reason I posted that for. It was not to "suggest" the classes being rolled into one. I wouldn't want that either. It was to emphasize the point that considering the Mastery/Folklore books as "end-game" is suggesting that the classes shouldn't be made more unique in how they play, or at least what they have access to. Something I disagree with.

One way they could be made different is make some sort of instance. Restoration of Holy See is a good opportunity, especially when they stop support for 32-bit Windows. They could give the players an actual ability to influence the look through the choice of what to make.

The knights make a new squad to patrol the town and want the Warrior of Light to help with arming it properly. The Warrior of Light turns in armors and weapons of their choice and can see those patrols with those items equipped henceforth.

Similarly, the poor people from the slums could get new clothes from Weaver in the same manner. There could be some facility built that would use furniture made and chosen by Carpenter.

A restaurant that would serve the dishes made by the Culinarian.

Make it impossible to turn in anything but your own stuff, maybe by making it require Collectibles, and you start making a difference in-game between them. You can only change the world in what respect you can actually commit to.

Of course, this is just a suggestion, and only a rather small thing in the grander scope of things. But right now you don't need any of the crafting classes to do anything at all, really. Except in-dungeon repairs. You can just throw your money at other players. And at-level, that is actually quite often cheaper too if you need a high quality item for job quest or some such.


Basically, I don't want them to be turned into a single class, either practically or metaphorically. That's why I hope for something that will make them genuinely discernible from each other in the game itself.

Whatever it might end up being, I'm really excited for profession endgame. They really need it.

I hope that this is a personal activity and not a server wide one. Because if its the latter then people might not be able to contribute to this anymore later because its already done. On the other hand them seemingly locking the housing behind this might hint at it being server wide..or maybe they are locking housing behind this personal activity and it might become the first instanced housing (please let that be true)?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Nothing truly challenges a DoH/DoL.

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Because there is nothing to challenge. Crafts can be pre-planned and simulated. You have an endless amount of time to do the actual craft, only thing that can interfere somewhat is RNG.

You'd have to change the system fundamentally in order to make them challenge the actual player skill.

The only "challenge" is dumping enough RL time into braindead grinds in to get up to the requirements.
I'm happy that they lowered that to a reasonable amount in Stormblood, for the first time my cat can craft high end stuff w/o having to grind my face off.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

I hope that this is a personal activity and not a server wide one. Because if its the latter then people might not be able to contribute to this anymore later because its already done. On the other hand them seemingly locking the housing behind this might hint at it being server wide..or maybe they are locking housing behind this personal activity and it might become the first instanced housing (please let that be true)?

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It would be awesome if we could buy an FC house in this instanced housing too. Although Louisoix isn't a problem world for housing (loads of smalls available and a decent number of mediums too), it'd still be a nice touch for busier realms.

That is something i can live with, perhaps its time to do away with the general junk of hw and sb and bring back the unique skills of each class, perhaps also do more with specialists again