Why do the Scions seem so incompetent?

This has been bothering me since the days of ARR,and while the issue is less worse than it used to be when ...*ughh* Minfillia was around it still bothers me how incompetent the Scions of the Seventh Dawn are(btw I don't count the twins as members and Tataru is the scions's secretary more or less....yet she was more useful than Minfillia ever was xD)

With the exception of Thancred,Urianger and Yshtola(and maaaaaybe Papalymo but thats a big maybe),most people in this organization either lack common sense to see the obvious route to the immediate solution so they send you errands that are the very definition of padding(the lead up to Garuda having my least favorite questlines in all of 14),or spend most of their day doing nothing.

And nothing embodies that more than the former "leader" of the scions herself....Minfillia.

Like ok,I get that you don't have to be a fighter to be of use,heck Urianger's studies of the realm did prove helpful on multiple occasions.But Minfillia literally just sit there doing nothing despite having the power of the echo all this time.And as a leader she hesitates on even the smallest decisions and this hesitation is what made the scions go around in circles for a long time.

Heck I'd argue because of her the scions barely made any progress until the Warrior of Light came in and suddenly they start associating his/her achievements as theirs cuz the WoL is now a member.....more like the driving force behind all their operation and the reason they made any progress to begin with.

And it's only when Minfillia gets tethered to Hydaelyn for all eternity and she's forever out of the picture(Beside Krile,literally no one mentions Minfillia anymore in Stormblood....like at all) that the members of the scions finally felt more involved in what's going on in the WoL's escapades rather than just cheering from their base in the Waking Sands.And it took Lyse/Yda until her companion/mentor freakin DIED for her to finally get more involved.

Maybe it's just me but I feel like if Minfillia wasn't there to begin with,the scions would've been much better than what they felt like throughout XIV.Oh well what's done is done I guess....I'm just glad there is no sight of Minfillia ever returning in the future.

For better or for worse, the Scions would likely have never have formed at all if Minfillia wasn't there.

A lot of Minfillia's issues as a character stem back to most of her character development happening back in 1.0 and then never being re-hashed in 2.0 for the people who never played 1.0. Back in 1.0, the Scions as we know them didn't exist. Instead, there was two different groups of people. Minfilia started up and organized what was called The Path. It was based in Ul'dah and was dedicated to finding people with the Echo and giving them an avenue to figure out what the Echo really was. Back then, nobody knew what the Echo was and a lot of people feared those who had it. The Path was dedicated to seeing what could be done with the Echo and researching it. Although, many of the people who did look further into the Echo disappeared while researching it. It's from this group that we get people like Arenvald and some of the people who died when Livia raided the Waking Sands.

The second group were the Archons who were with Loiusoix's Circle of Knowing. They were going around the realm trying to alert the city-states to the coming calamity and growing threat of Nael van Darnus and Dalamud. The Circle of Knowing knew more academic knowledge of what the Echo was and started exchanging information with The Path. Loiusoix and Minfillia started talking to each other and realized that they had similar goals and formed a good relationship. This eventually resulted in Loiusoix meeting the 1.0 Warrior of Light and kicked off a lot of the later 1.0 plot. After the Battle of Carenaeu, the Circle of Knowing and the Path combined into a new organization, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn, under Minfillia as everyone agreed she was good at delegating who did what. She continued in this role until the end of 2.0.

In both 1.0 and 2.0, either organization doesn't make much visible progress because they aren't the main character. We are. The Warrior of Light is the one with all the combat skills and who can actually get stuff done. As it is, the Echo itself has very little to do with combat. Instead it has to do with transcending barriers between people's souls (speaking/hearing all languages) and transcending the barriers between the material and aetherial worlds (talking with Hydaelyen) and transcending the barriers between time (seeing past histories). It also is slightly different for each person who has it. Minfillia's Echo was said to be the strongest in transcending the barriers between worlds. Krile's Echo lends itself well to understanding people's motives. And ours? Ours is good at everything. The Warrior of Light is Hydaelyn's Chosen One. We're basically Her proxy on the Source. For better or for worse, it's not just the Scions who can't get anything meaningful done without us, it's pretty much everyone else in the realm as well. In a very real way, we are the Dues Ex Machina for everyone else.

As for the current Scions, the trope the Worf Effect explains a lot of why they are incompetent. At it's heart, that trope is about establishing a new threat as powerful by having that thing take down someone else that the audience already knows is powerful. However, doing that too often tends to make the powerful someone else seem incompetent. After all, if they really were powerful, then they could take out threats too. The writers need some way of showing that a threat is serious enough that the Warrior of Light is the one that needs to deal with it. However, the Warrior of the Light is the player character and constantly having threats that are powerful enough to beat us every time they come up wouldn't go over well and become really boring. So instead the writers have the new threat take out one of the Scions who we already know are stronger then most people are. This has the additional benefit of shrinking the cast a tad so that the writers can focus on less people for a bit. Unfortunately, this tactic has been used twice this expansion, so it's more obvious the writers are doing this then usual.

Because they are. all the NPC's are.

let's go back to patch 2.0 ARR's early days. 1 single level 50 adventurer could run amok and cause absolute chaos in the castrums in mordhona or vineport absolutely stomp entire armies of garlean forces. yet the ENTIRE eorzean alliance could barely touch them. how incompetent must they be.

just one example. the same goes virtually everywhere in the game. NPC = not particularly competent. hahaha

Don't forget that with regard to what player audiences know, there's a lot of dramatic irony at play. That disparity is always going to make characters who aren't privy to that knowledge seem misguided and silly.

@ObsidianFire

I do understand the progress behind the scenes when I feel it's effect later

The Archons knowledge,like you said,warned Eorzea of the coming calamity.The knowledge Urianger had with his research,especially with Moenbryda later,proved quite fruitful against the ascian threat and the primals for example.Alphinaud,despite lacking in combat prowess,is an excellent diplomat

I'm not asking the scions to do the Warrior of Light's job cuz otherwise there won't be a game.But when it comes to post 1.0 plot from ARR onward,the scions's progress only felt more visible once she was out of the picture to send the warriors of darkness back to their world.So it felt like,despite how powerful her echo was, that Minfillia was holding back her own organization once the calamity passed.Heck it's after she was gone that we discovered more people with the echo like Arenvald

As for cutting down characters,Minfillia deserved it, but I didn't think Papalymo needed to die(assuming he's dead that is cuz if Louisoux and Gaius taught me anything...is that you only are confirmed dead if you die on screen.....unless you're Zenos xD)

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Because they are. all the NPC's are.

let's go back to patch 2.0 ARR's early days. 1 single level 50 adventurer could run amok and cause absolute chaos in the castrums in mordhona or vineport absolutely stomp entire armies of garlean forces. yet the ENTIRE eorzean alliance could barely touch them. how incompetent must they be.

just one example. the same goes virtually everywhere in the game. NPC = not particularly competent. hahaha

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Well a level 50 jobber is still a jobber at the end of the day so even at a high level it doesn't mean much when you see them die to weak spawning FATE monsters on the field xD

The Scions did plenty of things under Minfillia. It's just that when she is the one running the Scions, the plot isn't doing anything earthshattering like it will later do in Heavensward. Instead it's introducing "average" concepts like defeating primls abd pushing back the Imperials. But that doesn't invalidate that Minfillia was largely sucessful in her rolecas antecedent. It's only when Alphinaud creates the Crystal Braves that she becomes more maginalized, and she never gets the chance to shine in her role as antecedent after that.

Stuff the Scions do Under Minfillia's Direction
Disperse the primals Ifrit, Titian, Moggle Mog, Rhamu, Leviathan and Shiva
Prevent a primal version of Rhalgr from being summoned
Figure out a meathod of permenantly killing Ascians
Unite the Eozean Alliance
Lay the groundwork for Ishgard to become part of the Eorzean Alliance
Become based in nutraul terretory
Help the Alliance repel the Garleans

The Scions were plenty busy and mostly succesful at what they did in 2.0 untill the last patch. It's just that 2.0 as a whole is focused more on establishing what the status quo will be for the rest of the game then on doing anything to interesting plot-wise. That shouldn't diminish what they did manage to acomplish though.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

As for cutting down characters,Minfillia deserved it, but I didn't think Papalymo needed to die(assuming he's dead that is cuz if Louisoux and Gaius taught me anything...is that you only are confirmed dead if you die on screen.....unless you're Zenos xD)

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Awful thought of the day; Papalymo gets possessed like Zenos did and complicates things down the line

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Awful thought of the day; Papalymo gets possessed like Zenos did and complicates things down the line

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Lahabrea came back and possessed Papalymo xD

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The Scions did plenty of things under Minfillia. It's just that when she is the one running the Scions, the plot isn't doing anything earthshattering like it will later do in Heavensward. Instead it's introducing "average" concepts like defeating primls abd pushing back the Imperials. But that doesn't invalidate that Minfillia was largely sucessful in her rolecas antecedent. It's only when Alphinaud creates the Crystal Braves that she becomes more maginalized, and she never gets the chance to shine in her role as antecedent after that.

Stuff the Scions do Under Minfillia's Direction
Disperse the primals Ifrit, Titian, Moggle Mog, Rhamu, Leviathan and Shiva
Prevent a primal version of Rhalgr from being summoned
Figure out a meathod of permenantly killing Ascians
Unite the Eozean Alliance
Lay the groundwork for Ishgard to become part of the Eorzean Alliance
Become based in nutraul terretory
Help the Alliance repel the Garleans

The Scions were plenty busy and mostly succesful at what they did in 2.0 untill the last patch. It's just that 2.0 as a whole is focused more on establishing what the status quo will be for the rest of the game then on doing anything to interesting plot-wise. That shouldn't diminish what they did manage to acomplish though.

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Fair enough....though half of these were done either by the Warrior of Light

For Ishgard it was really Alphinaud not so much Minfillia that laid the groundwork.

As for changing from Horizon to Mor Dhona....Minfillia wouldn't have done it if it wasn't for Alphinaud cuz otherwise she would've remained in Uldah

I guess my problem is,and I probably should've made it clearer,is that at least for ARR,unless we're slaying a primal for the scions or fighting Garlemald,we don't get too involved enough in some of these instances with the exception of alliance meetings.and when we do get involved more it seems they send us on errands that ....wouldn't have been bad if the quests for those errands weren't so plentiful in ARR(looking at Coerthas in particular) cuz in Heavensward and Stormblood the quantity of small MSQs were considerably shortened.

Minfilia does a lot of work that we don't see, and that wouldn't be all that compelling to watch. Meetings, assigning people to tasks, making sure the organisation is actually running and organised.

I know there's some point where someone actually remarks on the sort of work she was doing, but I don't know where to look for the quote.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

Lahabrea came back and possessed Papalymo xD

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Wearing stilts.

I kinda have the feeling that the team kinda wants to wash away everything from 1.0, which is why essentially this things have been, massively toned down, and ppl in it have been killed
Maybe it's just my impression though

The entire point of Minfillia's job as Antecedent is to delegate tasks to the people with the skillset best suited for it. Of course she's going to send us after primals, of course she's going to have Alphaund handle negotiations. That's what we're good at. That doesn't diminish Minfillia's skill of assigning specific people to the correct roles.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

When we do get involved more it seems they send us on errands that ....wouldn't have been bad if the quests for those errands weren't so plentiful in ARR(looking at Coerthas in particular) cuz in Heavensward and Stormblood the quantity of small MSQs were considerably shortened.

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Thus is because the majority of the player base hates those kinds of quests. Of course, that's also why the latter part of SB after the WoL gets back from Doma is so rushed. There is no "fetch quest" to slow the narrative down. It all happens at once which feels very unbelievable to a lot of people.

I'm not that surprised SE is either majorly developing or getting rid of the 1.0 characters. Most of the player base has no idea of how they developed in 1.0 and so isn't that invested in what happens to the 1.0 versions of the characters. SE either has to give the player base more current reasons to be invested in them, or create space for new characters for people to be invested in. Getting rid of the blander characters makes a lot of sense.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The entire point of Minfillia's job as Antecedent is to delegate tasks to the people with the skillset best suited for it. Of course she's going to send us afyer primals, of coyrse she's going to have Alphaund handle negoyiatiobs. That's what we're good at. That doesn't diminish Minfillia's skill of asigning specific people to the correct roles.

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This.

Things we see:
Minfilia says "hey, something is up in the Twelveswood", and then we go and fight Ramuh.

Things we don't see:
Minfilia sends out scouts, meets with leaders and diplomats, assigns research projects, and a million other things that leads to us getting that information in the first place.

While I don't like Minfilia very much as a character, there's no denying she was very good at her job.

On retrospect it could also be a very good reason as to why the scions don't feel as good as before at handling stuff

In regards to Minfilia, as many have said the issue with her is that her job (in effect, manager) isn't very glorious and doesn't give her much time to shine. Everybody else is out doing fieldwork, while she sits behind a desk and arranges things so they can do that fieldwork - a crucial task, but one most people find boring.

My feelings on her are mixed. I didn't like her as a character, but neither was I happy with the way she left the stage (seemingly forever, but possibly not).

For the rest, the problem is that their enemy (the Ascians) set things up so that no matter what the Scions do it advances their goals. As I said elsewhere it's essentially a choice of damnations - play to the Ascians' script or untold numbers of people killed. The fact Elidibus suggests attacking Ala Mhigo (and personally killing the Warrior of Light) before the Eorzeans are able to muster a countermeasure effective enough to stop the Empire implies that, due to Lahabrea's bumbling or otherwise, things aren't going entirely according to the script, though.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The entire point of Minfillia's job as Antecedent is to delegate tasks to the people with the skillset best suited for it. Of course she's going to send us afyer primals, of coyrse she's going to have Alphaund handle negoyiatiobs. That's what we're good at. That doesn't diminish Minfillia's skill of asigning specific people to the correct roles.

Thus is becuase the majority of the player base hates those kinds of quests. Of course, that's also why the latter part of SB after the WoL gets back fom Doma is so rushed. There is no "fetch quest" to slow the narritive down. It all happens at once which feels very unbeleavible to a lot of people.

I'm not that surprised SE is either majorly developing or getting rid of the 1.0 characters. Most of the player base has no idea of how they developed in 1.0 and so isn't that invested in what happens to the 1.0 versions of the characters. SE either has to give the player base more current reasons to be invested in them, or create space for new characters for people to be invested in. Getting rid of the blander characters makes a lot of sense.

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For me at least those quest were a problem in pre ARR-post game cuz the ARR post game itself was better handled in my opinion.Cuz the only fetch quest that really angered me so much(and I admit that questline isn't Minfillia's fault this time) is the whole Inquisitor Guillame heretic business....other than that the rest are servicable if a bit mundane despite my issues with Minfillia

I don't think getting rid of the rest of 1.0 characters would solve the issue especially with how some of them are integrated into the plot.The twins aren't going away anytime soon and so is Thancred and Yshtola.

I could see Lyse staying behind in Ala Mhigo but that's about it.

My suggestion is for filling people in on missing 1.0 plot is this:Remake the key moments of that into some sort of raid you can instigate through some means like the wandering ministril or heck an intervention for Hydaelyn or a scholar who's chronicling the calamity and needs someone with the echo to recount certain moments from the past.

It would recount a couple of major moments ending up with a redone fight with Nael Van Darnus and the final moments before Dalamud's fall.

That way the people who never played 2.0 can experience said events in much better quality and it's a way of adding more content without creating a new raid from scratch

Minfilia was a victim of poor writing, in that what she was actually doing was so poorly defined that players have to kind of extrapolate based on RL organizations and apply them to the Scions.

I do think the writers are trying to fill in those gaps now, albeit rather too late. I recall seeing dialogue to the effect of how a lot of the Scions' current operations, especially after the events at the end of 4.4, would not be possible without Minfilia's very extensive network of contacts to help out. Simply including a line like that early on in ARR would have helped immensely, or if we had several scenes where NPCs went "oh, you're working for Minfilia, our doors are open to you and yours", and made it clear it's because of that, rather than because we're the player character. Everyone Knows Minfilia, and we get the benefits (and responsibilities) of that.

It sounds like you just dislike Minfillia, but I'll still try and answer your question.

City-States are like Soap, Detergent, etc, great at cleaning up specific messes.
The Scions are like Bleach, even better for cleaning, but can damage things.

Problems happen when someone discovers "Bleach" not only cleans, but whitens, and then decides to brush their teeth with it, or uses it as a weapon.

TL;DR: Scions are just being used lazily.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

My suggestion is for filling people in on missing 1.0 plot is this:Remake the key moments of that into some sort of raid you can instigate through some means like the wandering ministril or heck an intervention for Hydaelyn or a scholar who's chronicling the calamity and needs someone with the echo to recount certain moments from the past.

It would recount a couple of major moments ending up with a redone fight with Nael Van Darnus and the final moments before Dalamud's fall.

That way the people who never played 2.0 can experience said events in much better quality and it's a way of adding more content without creating a new raid from scratch

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Isn't that exactly what Binding coil was supposed to be? Albeit after the events, rather than during

[big spoilers ahead if you haven't done ARR]

People felt like Minfillia did nothing but pointlessly make us run around to deliver messages, and she was never seen in action herself (we even had to go rescue her!), so it didn't matter that we were told sometimes that she did a lot of important administrative tasks. She was our naggy boss making us ignore the linkshell network she set up to go tell guys in Timbuktu that we all needed to come back to the Waking Sands. The writing around her role and why we were being sent on endless come-hither, go-thither quests could have been a lot better for sure. It's difficult to write convincingly strong non-combatants in a game centered around resolving all problems with violent conflict, though, so her ending up as the Mother Crystal's puppet/pawn is probably the best thing that could have happened to her. Now we are lead by Alphinaud, who while not being a strong fighter like his sister, can at least fend for himself in a fight if the WoL happens to be half a world away. That's more fitting for the role the Scions are taking in the story I think.

I feel like the game will necessarily need to include some other group than the Scions to wipe out whenever it's time to raise the stakes... I know they're supposed to be uncommonly strong/talented people, but watching them get put out of commission just to drive the point home every time makes me wonder why I keep associating with them. They're nice people for sure but I get the feeling that only Urianger is truly competent sometimes because the rest of them get knocked out of the story more often than they're in it lately.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Isn't that exactly what Binding coil was supposed to be? Albeit after the events, rather than during

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Binding Coil only explains a few key points of what happened during the battle of Carteneau but doesn't entirely cover some other big events that went around 1.0 before the Calamity struck

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Minfillia suffers from a lot of 'tell not show' too. If I'm reading things right on this thread, there are instances where npcs talk about Minfillia's influences but since we never, or rather not often, see her doing these things we don't really give her the credit she deserves.
I'm not saying that we should always be seeing what she's done, but just a little showing that Minfillia is working behind the scenes at times might've lessened the hate for her.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

Binding Coil only explains a few key points of what happened during the battle of Carteneau but doesn't entirely cover some other big events that went around 1.0 before the Calamity struck

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True, but my point is that if they made another raid that focused on the events of 1.0, it would feel like a BCoB rehash. We would also have two raids, with two nael fights that happen in the same arena. It's too similar to be considered a viable idea.

The thing is, Nael is probably the most black-and-white thing to come out of FFXIV until Zenos. Nael's involvement in 1.0 is mostly to be the one who keeps Dalamud dropping the entire time. There's reasons why SE can stick the most important parts of Nael's impact in 1.0 in the Binding Coil raids and feel like the player base isn't missing much of what Nael was trying to do.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff in 1.0 that impacts the 2.0 plot, characters, setting, etc. in much more interesting and long lasting ways then Nael did. Characters like Cid and Minfillia are given much more fleshed out backstories. We find out what the main three city states were like before the current alliance leaders were in power. Cid's relationship with Eorzea as a whole and Garlemald is a lot more personal rather then academic. And we get to see why everyone respected Louisoix and a bunch of other stuff.

As far as I can tell, most of that stuff would be better told as Side-Quest content now rather then something like a raid. It'd be like watching several hours worth of cutscenes. Thank goodness YouTube exists...

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The thing is, Nael is probably the most black-and-white thing to come out of FFXIV until Zenos. Nael's involvement in 1.0 is mostly to be the one who keeps Dalamud dropping the entire time. There's reasons why SE can stick the most important parts of Nael's impact in 1.0 in the Binding Coil raids and feel like the player base isn't missing much of what Nael was trying to do.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff in 1.0 that impacts the 2.0 plot, characters, setting, etc. in much more interesting and long lasting ways then Nael did. Characters like Cid and Minfillia are given much more fleshed out backstories. We find out what the main three city states were like before the current alliance leaders were in power. Cid's relationship with Eorzea as a whole and Garlemald is a lot more personal rather then academic. And we get to see why everyone respected Louisoix and a bunch of other stuff.

As far as I can tell, most of that stuff would be better told as Side-Quest content now rather then something like a raid. It'd be like watching several hours worth of cutscenes. Thank goodness YouTube exists...

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Well I meant more than just the battles with Nael cuz there are more to 1.0's story than that.

And while I'm glad youtube summaries for the story of 1.0 exist.....I still think something can be salvaged without repeating the Binding Coils too much.

I won't mind sidequests with maybe solo instances where you play a few key 1.0 events.Or heck some sidequests with a few of Minfillia's associates to make us feel more the impact of what she seemingly accomplished.

I get that not everything can be shown especially with a huge story spanning 3 expansions(Well more like a relaunch and 2 expansions but still) but I prefer the "show don't tell" approach personally

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

snip

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I totally agree with a lot of your points, but I just have one thing to add:

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The Warrior of Light is Hydaelyn's Chosen One Mary Sue.

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FTFY.

Its so apparent that it hurts sometimes.

Minfilia suffered as a result of every other Scion being given tasks that really should have been hers to undertake. Some of my favourite characters are those in a non-combat role, so I don't think Minfilia serving as a non-combatant was a mistake. Yet to a degree, she was meant to be a diplomat and a negotiator. Yet we don't see her doing anything along those lines very often and when it does happen it occurs off screen.

At this point, Alphinaud is doing much of what Minfilia should have been doing. I suspect at some point a decision was made to retire Minfilia for the most part and replace her with Alphinaud. He's arguably the main Scion at this point and has enjoyed the most character development. He failed horribly when it came to Ilberd's scheming...but he learned from his mistakes. When Minfilia was kidnapped by Livia - and then again by Nabriales - she didn't really undergo any major changes. There's poetic irony in her effectively being kidnapped for a third time by Hydaelyn to become a vessel...

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Minfilia suffered as a result of every other Scion being given tasks that really should have been hers to undertake. Some of my favourite characters are those in a non-combat role, so I don't think Minfilia serving as a non-combatant was a mistake. Yet to a degree, she was meant to be a diplomat and a negotiator. Yet we don't see her doing anything along those lines very often and when it does happen it occurs off screen.

At this point, Alphinaud is doing much of what Minfilia should have been doing. I suspect at some point a decision was made to retire Minfilia for the most part and replace her with Alphinaud. He's arguably the main Scion at this point and has enjoyed the most character development. He failed horribly when it came to Ilberd's scheming...but he learned from his mistakes. When Minfilia was kidnapped by Livia - and then again by Nabriales - she didn't really undergo any major changes. There's poetic irony in her effectively being kidnapped for a third time by Hydaelyn to become a vessel...

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The thing is,we see Alphinaud as he negotiates and as he develops as a character and learn from his mistake with the crystal braves.We don't see much with Minfillia beside her channeling her inner princess Peach and get kidnapped twice.

Again not every character need to be a combatant.Look at Urianger,he doesn't fight(except once against the warriors of darkness), but you feel the effect of his research and studies as you progress whether against the primal threat or the ascian menace.Heck if it wasn't for him taking the risk to team up with Elidibus the Warriors of Darkness dilleema would probably never been resolved

Minfillia is how we get Krile and how we even know a whole island of other scholary types got dead. So if you really want to blame anyone for any interest in Eureka it's Minfillia's fault. We interrupted her LS talks with probably Krile a few times. Also Urianger fights during the we need to rescue the scions post waking sands attack. I blame her being kidnapped a second time on Midgarsomer as he had just put that block on our blessing of light which is stated as to why Nabrialas could just teleport into her chamber.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Minfillia is how we get Krile and how we even know a whole island of other scholary types got dead. So if you really want to blame anyone for any interest in Eureka it's Minfillia's fault. We interrupted her LS talks with probably Krile a few times. Also Urianger fights during the we need to rescue the scions post waking sands attack. I blame her being kidnapped a second time on Midgarsomer as he had just put that block on our blessing of light which is stated as to why Nabrialas could just teleport into her chamber.

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So we can blame Minfillia for Eureka then xD.

As for the second kidnapping.....you're kinda right.But considering that Elidibus walked in an out before Nabriales came in,she shouldn't have been entrusted with something like Tupsimati if her method of protecting the staff is....staring at it

Not to mention,the end result of Midgardsormr's blocking was imo worth the trouble

Thoughts:

People seem to be annoyed about so-called Fetch Quests early on in ARR without realizing that

• without them, we stick around the Waking Sands and nothing much happens in-game
• we learn more about the world and its lore by going out and doing what we might consider stupid stuff while some of us breeze past the non-MSQ quest text, not realizing that the alternative is nothing but cut-scenes full of exposition where nothing much happens in-game
• we really weren't considered to be the 'Warrior of Light' until pretty much the end of the 2.0 storyline -- instead, we were on the same level as other members of the Scions, including A'aba Tia and Arenvald: adventurers, not the lesser deities some might think they are while playing the game.

Minfilia was a leader of an organization that was fairly large. As such, it was her job to stick around the Waking Sands and perform all of the boring bits of leadership that, thankfully, we don't have to endure because we don't have to stick around the Waking Sands doing nothing for the rest of the game. Would you really want to sit through cut-scenes where nothing much happens except Minfilia doing those 'leadership tasks'?

We move out of the Waking Sands because it was compromised, and there was a conscious decision to move away from being dependent on the Syndicate in Ul'dah in favor of a more, um, Eorzean-for-all stance.

We should admire Minfilia because the Archons admire her and depend on her. And because, at the end of the day, she befriended us and extended a hand to us that made life more interesting in this game.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

... ,she shouldn't have been entrusted with something like Tupsimati if her method of protecting the staff is....

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So you, as Warrior of Light, immediately knew how special the stone bound to the staff was, and all of the Archons missed it?

No-one knew it for more than a memorial to a great man, including his grandchildren.

You're playing Monday-morning quarterback, and it's already Tuesday ...

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Originally Posted by DPZ2

So you, as Warrior of Light, immediately knew how special the stone bound to the staff was, and all of the Archons missed it?

No-one knew it for more than a memorial to a great man, including his grandchildren.

You're playing Monday-morning quarterback, and it's already Tuesday ...

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Well I didn't knew but at least the archons,especially Papalymo who claims to be "Louisoux's finest student" should've probably known that the staff that was used to channel the Twelves themselves to seal an elder primal would be special

No one knows that because Louisoix for all intents and purposes died at Cartenau. No one actually knew what he really did at Cartenau, except the WoL maybe, and that would be due to Echo shenanigans. There's reasons why what Papalymo does to Shinryu is slightly different then what Louisoix does. He's going of Louisoix's research about it, but not the actually spell.

We see Minfilia calling up the Students of Baldesion several times to ask them to find out information about primals and Ascians and the Rejoining. It's implied (at the time) that the Ise of Val was taken out due to the Students of Baldesion finding out too much information about what the Ascians were really up too and the Ascians didn't want Minfillia and the Scions learning about it. For me a least, that was enough "show, don't tell" of Minfillia collecting information for me to think she does it when we aren't there. It was also enough to convince me that I really didn't want to watch quests' worth of cutscenes of her doing more of it.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

No one knows that because Louisoix for all intents and purposes died at Cartenau. No one actually knew what he really did at Cartenau, except the WoL maybe, and that would be due to Echo shenanigans. There's reasons why what Papalymo does to Shinryu is slightly different then what Louisoix does. He's going of Louisoix's research about it, but not the actually spell.

We see Minfilia calling up the Students of Baldesion several times to ask them to find out information about primals and Ascians and the Rejoining. It's implied (at the time) that the Ise of Val was taken out due to the Students of Baldesion finding out too much information about what the Ascians were really up too and the Ascians didn't want Minfillia and the Scions learning about it. For me a least, that was enough "show, don't tell" of Minfillia collecting information for me to think she does it when we aren't there. It was also enough to convince me that I really didn't want to watch quests' worth of cutscenes of her doing more of it.

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Fair enough....cuz I don't want an excessive amount of quest quantity like the lead up to Garuda in ARR.

Hmmmm.......I'm gonna look back on past events from ARR and 1.0 a bit more since some details are escaping me.

My dislike of Minfillia may not change but I wanna remember more of what she did

Because at the end of the day, Minphillia is essentially a fire chief. Really her main responsibility is delegating what needs to be done in a broad sense. She assigns someone a broad task then its that person that's supposed to figure out how to implement it. We also don't see what she's doing cause the stuff she would be dealing with would be a far worse hell than going on fetch quests. Even a few lines explaining her role would be insufficient to explain it all. I don't think we need anymore life of Tataru going on.