5.0 Relic Weapon

Please for the love of God and all that is holy do NOT put the 5.0 relic in an area like Eureka again. At least not fully. Maybe have it as an OPTION among many OPTIONS to complete the relic but not the only one.

I've done several relics from ARR and HW, not all the relics; I'm not that crazy, but the relic weapon of 4.0 is the first I'm skipping simply cause I hate Eureka. And if the interviews are to be believed I would hate the next Eureka zones even more.

Thanks for listening.

SE: "No diadem 3.0? Sure thing! Get ready for b̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ "new content" on steroids as a p̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ reward! Please a̶b̶s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ look forward to it!"

:P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElazulHP

SE: "No diadem 3.0? Sure thing! Get ready for b̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ "new content" on steroids as a p̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ reward! Please a̶b̶s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ look forward to it!"

:P

---

Books instead of eureka? Oh i'm all in.

I'd rather SE take a long hard look at it's progression model rather than just making "5.0 relics".

Let us get them while they're still at least somewhat relevant instead of at the end of a patch cycle!

imo I think Eureka could have benefited from doing a more consistent variation of the challenge logs, except instead it could have had daily quests with that yielded fixed amounts of XP, crystals, light, etc. The quests could have been fashioned similarly to beast tribe dailies, while encouraging exploration of the zones and expanding upon the lore. Sure, they could have kept the mob grinds and NMs as alternative means to potentially accelerate the process. But a quest system could give the players different options on how to level up and enhance relics, as well as give solo players a better opportunity for obtaining relics.

What the Dev's hear: "Please make the 5.0 relic a direct continuation of the Eureka relic so that you have to have started back in Anemos to get it."

In all seriousness though, I really do hope that content like Eureka doesn't ever rear its head again unless SE actually learns from their mistakes. Like for a start, fixing object culling priorities when too many people are in one place, and of course not giving us a carpal tunnel inducing grind on training dummies that occasionally have an ability you need to worry about once in a blue moon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

imo I think Eureka could have benefited from doing a more consistent variation of the challenge logs, except instead it could have had daily quests with that yielded fixed amounts of XP, crystals, light, etc. The quests could have been fashioned similarly to beast tribe dailies, while encouraging exploration of the zones and expanding upon the lore. Sure, they could have kept the mob grinds and NMs as alternative means to potentially accelerate the process. But a quest system could give the players different options on how to level up and enhance relics, as well as give solo players a better opportunity for obtaining relics.

---

You can add all the daily quests, hunts, w/e you want to Eureka that isn't going to make it better. The fact you can't solo fight stuff unless you're a RDM, Tank or Healer... at least when I went into Pagos and tried to solo a few mobs that were the same level I would have died had I not been a RDM at the time. The fact that every thing under the sun aggros you, you loose exp when you die AND can loose levels. The place is just a nightmare and not fun to me. I stood in one spot farming mobs in FFXI long enough. I don't need to do that in FFXIV.

But I understand some people like Eureka. So leave it as an option to progress relics for the people that enjoy it, but give those of us that can't stand Eureka a way to get our relics as well. Heck, you can even make Eureka progress your weapon faster than any other option if you want to keep it relevant, just give us options OUTSIDE of Eureka.

OP, my name is Bee. Remember that, because it's a name you will hate.

I will beg to Yoshi-P and pray to my God that they will put the 5.0 relic gear to Eureka. I absolutely will. In fact, you encouraged me to open up my laptop for more ergonomic typing to type out a thread titled "Use Eureka for the 5.0 relic gear". I don't wanna invest time in Eureka only to realize it'll be outdated as soon as the next expansion comes out.

That's right, OP. Bee. Remember that name for you will hate it.

I don't care if they have a special area or not, it just needs to work for casuals/solos as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElazulHP

SE: "No diadem 3.0? Sure thing! Get ready for b̶o̶o̶k̶s̶ "new content" on steroids as a p̶u̶n̶i̶s̶h̶m̶e̶n̶t̶ reward! Please a̶b̶s̶o̶l̶u̶t̶e̶l̶y̶ ̶d̶r̶e̶a̶d̶ look forward to it!"

:P

---

...Im suddenly having nightmares of the Zodiak stage of the relics. That was brutal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Super_Bee_Brian

OP, my name is Bee. Remember that, because it's a name you will hate.

I will beg to Yoshi-P and pray to my God that they will put the 5.0 relic gear to Eureka. I absolutely will. In fact, you encouraged me to open up my laptop for more ergonomic typing to type out a thread titled "Use Eureka for the 5.0 relic gear". I don't wanna invest time in Eureka only to realize it'll be outdated as soon as the next expansion comes out.

That's right, OP. Bee. Remember that name for you will hate it.

---

Everything you do currently will be outdated when the next expansion comes out. Ultimate fights, Savage fights, and Eureka time spent. It's been this way since the first expansion. It'll be this way till the last expansion they do. Probably lol.

The way I see it is, we need more hard zone in the game. people asked for 2years for harder mod in the main game zones but SE said no, but now that we have it In the form of a endgame the same ppl don’t want it lol

There to much solo in this game for me as is, so having a place to go and team up with ppl and work together is much more fun, then seeing the same 7 ppl for a 10mins boss fight 1-2times a week. That was getting old fast. it a MMO 1st, a RPG 2nd

They should let us buy whatever resource you need to grind out the relic off of the Mogstation. 5% of resources for a small fee, repeatedly purchasable.

It would seem to me that no one likes how they handle relics: 2.0 had fate grinds, 3.0 had tome grainds (both requiring crafting to continue at certain points) and now 4.0 they make it an instanced zone and people still hate it. I honestly wonder if they might just not do relics next expansion since it seems most people hate how there done.

It's a JRPG, you gotta expect grinding and effort for good rewards. Whereas WoW will literally hand you rewards no matter how much work you put into it or didn't.

Wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I'll go further: SE needs to re-learn what a decent grind looks like. A decent grind should have a proper balance between the reward, the time invested, and the mental boredom inflicted upon the player. The longer the grind, or the more painfully boring the activity, the better the reward has to be to make it a worthwhile endeavour that players engage with in a positive fashion.

Thus far, SE just hasn't managed to pull this off very well in FFXIV, and the Relic weapons are exhibits A, B, and C. Horrible creations such as the Atma stage for the Zodiac weapon, or Light farming for the Zodiac and Anima weapons, are just bad. They take lengthy amounts of time, they're horrifically boring for the player (because they involve doing the same tasks we do every day and are already borderline sick of, but in large quantities). And the reward? The reward is more or less trivial until the last six months of the version cycle, after which it's completely invalidated at the start of the next one. Bad. Just, bad. And Eureka is even worse: its time investment isn't as bad as it could be, but the tasks we do are absolutely mind-numbing. I cannot for the life of me stay awake through more than about 30 minutes of Eureka without putting on Netflix or something. It's the gaming equivalent of watching paint dry.

So please, SE, please re-learn what a decent grind looks like, and build it into the 5.0 Relics. Heck, build it in to other aspects of the game, too: I'd love to have some more meat on content like the Beast Tribes, or Levequests. Tie it into something besides shallow one-off reward boosts. I'll gladly chip away at it. But don't, for the love of Hydaelyn, give us another version of Diadem. At all. You've done it multiple times in both expansions to FFXIV, and it's gone over like a lead balloon in every single case. Stop it. Go back to the drawing board, or better yet, poll the players, and then listen to what we have to say.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alestorm

Snip.

---

Good rewards? Where do you see good rewards in Pagos?

I see outdated rewards at the launch of said content. Do you mean the belt, hat, and earrings the items that never drop. As it stands much better rewards for less time in other content in the game. They should stop trying with Diadem it is not working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DuskTS

They should let us buy whatever resource you need to grind out the relic off of the Mogstation. 5% of resources for a small fee, repeatedly purchasable.

---

No that will make this a “p2w” game in some way, and Se already side the will NEVER add something like that to the Mog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

poll the players, and then listen to what we have to say.

---

They do, but you know it fanny how the number of ppl that do the polls don’t every = the number playing 9/10. It take a lot more then a few 1000 players getting upset over it, to make SE stop doing something, they take the most of what ppl say on the forums and go form there to see if it will work and or help, not everything the players want can be add, do to it making it to easy for some or to head for others. Also you have to post you’re ideas in the right part of the forums to ever have SE look at it in the 1st places. Sometime you see polls on the said parts of the forums... lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

poll the players, and then listen to what we have to say.

---

Give the players 3 choices and you'll end up with a 4-way tie and 10 mutually antagonistic factions that don't really care what they themselves get, as long as the others don't get what they want.

5.0 relic to be introduced probably in 5.35, turning out to be no more than a 'dyeable job glamour' rather than a tier-relevant, possibly crafted/tomestone/ex primal alternative weapon.

The current "relic" has completely destroyed my confidence in the system.
Needn't have been, could have been so much more; but SE's insistence on turning it into a bastard stepchild afterthought with the shallowest possible level of gameplay has done irrepairable damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazuki87

They do, but you know it fanny how the number of ppl that do the polls don’t every = the number playing 9/10. It take a lot more then a few 1000 players getting upset over it, to make SE stop doing something, they take the most of what ppl say on the forums and go form there to see if it will work and or help, not everything the players want can be add, do to it making it to easy for some or to head for others. Also you have to post you’re ideas in the right part of the forums to ever have SE look at it in the 1st places. Sometime you see polls on the said parts of the forums... lol

---

SE could easily post a form into the XIV launcher, Twitter feeds, etc. They could incentivize users if they wanted to, such as offering some sort of in-game bonus for providing feedback. There are plenty of options. Passively listening to the most opinionated members of the community can indeed provide skewed information - but they can fix that by asking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonbori

Give the players 3 choices and you'll end up with a 4-way tie and 10 mutually antagonistic factions that don't really care what they themselves get, as long as the others don't get what they want.

---

If so, than SE asked the wrong questions. Properly structured questions will provide usable feedback for them - it has in the past, it has for other companies. This isn't some new idea - it's just one that SE has abandoned ever since ARR released, to the detriment of FFXIV, in my opinion.

Also, the community isn't nearly as fractured as your post would have people believe. It comes off that way on these forums because users are generally more opinionated, and because discussion is almost completely undirected. SE taking an active hand in framing the conversation would resolve both of these issues to a large extent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonbori

Give the players 3 choices and you'll end up with a 4-way tie and 10 mutually antagonistic factions that don't really care what they themselves get, as long as the others don't get what they want.

---

Pretty much this, especially in a game where players only know what was placed before and clamor so hard for it that it bars devs from allowing new ideas to enter the series because players that want their "good ol' days" simply have no clue how XIV works.

At this point though, I wouldn't mind it if 5.0 either didn't provide a relic or only offered an actual item at the absolutely end of the expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

Pretty much this, especially in a game where players only know what was placed before and clamor so hard for it that it bars devs from allowing new ideas to enter the series because players that want their "good ol' days" simply have no clue how XIV works.

At this point though, I wouldn't mind it if 5.0 either didn't provide a relic or only offered an actual item at the absolutely end of the expansion.

---

The development teams behind more or less any consumer-facing piece of software have to deal with these types of issues. The vast majority have learned to solicit feedback. Even Microsoft solicits feedback now, and on a piece of software as complex as Windows - because they know that they have to. It's how products improve.

Regardless of that fact, I honestly can't understand this apparent inclination to throw in the towel just because people have disagreements on the forums. How does giving up and/or canceling entire segments of content help anybody? I intensely dislike Eureka, but I think FFXIV is better with it than without it - content is content, and there are plenty of people who managed to enjoy Anemos.

Also, as an aside: the FFXIV development team is never barred from doing something based on user feedback. They're the developers, and the buck stops with them. If they're not introducing new ideas, it's because they either (a) don't have them, or (b) aren't confident enough in them to take the risk. In either case, going back to the drawing board is probably a good idea. Feedback solicitation is to inform development, not control it.

The main thing will be that the 5.0 Relic should be added earlier and not late like SB, and then it may actually have some value
And they do need to take ideas from past Relics as they were more enjoyable to do (Pre-Atma)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirsten_Rev

The development teams behind more or less any consumer-facing piece of software have to deal with these types of issues. The vast majority have learned to solicit feedback. Even Microsoft solicits feedback now, and on a piece of software as complex as Windows - because they know that they have to. It's how products improve.

Regardless of that fact, I honestly can't understand this apparent inclination to throw in the towel just because people have disagreements on the forums. How does giving up and/or canceling entire segments of content help anybody? I intensely dislike Eureka, but I think FFXIV is better with it than without it - content is content, and there are plenty of people who managed to enjoy Anemos.

Also, as an aside: the FFXIV development team is never barred from doing something based on user feedback. They're the developers, and the buck stops with them. If they're not introducing new ideas, it's because they either (a) don't have them, or (b) aren't confident enough in them to take the risk. In either case, going back to the drawing board is probably a good idea. Feedback solicitation is to inform development, not control it.

---

Nobody is saying that the devs shouldn't be taking feedback. Obviously there are communication issues, obviously they are somewhat detached and obviously these things should be addressed.

But... I don't think directly polling the community would be a miraculous problem solver. In Business 101 they teach the famous idea that customers don't generally know what they want. People like to misinterpret that as "companies think their customers are idiots" but that's not what it's actually supposed to mean. What it means is that a customer doesn't know whether they like a product/service until they have used/experienced said product/service. Anything that the customer says they want, while they may think they want it with all their heart, body and soul, may end up disappointing them. Ultimately it is up to the company to analyse what their customers say they want, what they expect, what they already have, and figure out what it is that the customers actually need.

TL;DR: The way they take feedback has no bearing on anything. Changing their method of collecting it probably wouldn't improve anything simply because... the problem is not the feedback collection method, or even the demographics they collect it from. The problem, the reason why Eureka, why Diadem, why 1.0 happened, is probably down to whatever is wrong with their analysis of said feedback. If they don't understand what their customers need, they won't benefit from changing the way their customers get to yell at them about what they want.

I agree. Also relic weapon needs to be introduced on time like HW was.

This is the first relic weapon I am skipping as well. Anemos was tolerable, but Pagos is complete trash and needs major updates for it to be even considered real content imo.

The relic was suppose to be a casual way to obtain a reasonably strong weapon. But I hope they are not basing Eureka numbers compared to Diadem numbers. If Eureka didnt have the relic tied to it, I'm sure it would have died a long time ago.


This is a big learning experience for them and I'm sure they know now to leave the relic outside of content like this going forward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hazuki87

The way I see it is, we need more hard zone in the game. people asked for 2years for harder mod in the main game zones but SE said no, but now that we have it In the form of a endgame the same ppl don’t want it lol

There to much solo in this game for me as is, so having a place to go and team up with ppl and work together is much more fun, then seeing the same 7 ppl for a 10mins boss fight 1-2times a week. That was getting old fast. it a MMO 1st, a RPG 2nd

---

Speaking only for myself I never asked for a "hard" zone. I don't like having to get a full party together just to explore a zone and do the random myriad number of quests available in the zone. You had to do that in FFXI and know what that turned into? Everyone telling you to just sneak / invis your way to where ever you need to go. And why does everyone say all you do is solo? You still need 3 other people for dungeons. 7 other people for raids. 23 other people for 24 mans. You just don't have to shout for people to get them to do the thing with you. Instead of having to stand in Jeuno shouting for a party or trying to make one on your own you just que into something and the game selects 3 - 23 other people for you to play with. Just cuts out the middle man so to speak.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazrah

At this point though, I wouldn't mind it if 5.0 either didn't provide a relic or only offered an actual item at the absolutely end of the expansion.

---

Other idea : Apparently, people really like the concept "upgradeable glowy weapon", to the point of doing a content they despise.

So, they could make several weapons of that kind. You could have a Primal weapon, where steps are tied to doing primals, Raid weapon for the normal raids (24 and 8-man combined), and the Alternate weapon for Alternate content like Eureka. This way, whatever content you like most, you'll always be able to build your own glowy weapon.
And you'd still have the tome weapon, that should be kept 10 ilvl lower than all of the others (Basically, no upgrade)

Look, if they're going to make them grindy and we know they are, PLEASE release them when the expansion releases. That way when the game hits it's dead cycles (which always happens) you can be grinding on those.