Ridorana: The perfect design

Just want to praise the devs for the work they did with these bosses, each of them were designed with care. They're the perfect balance if challenge and accessible.
Basically I want to encourage them to make dungeon bosses challenging just like these Ridorana bosses. I know raid bosses are different in design but they should at least borrow some of the difficulty tuning from Ridorana and make it like this for dungeons and other content if they can.

Everything's so unique, from the water pods, to the math.., to the time theme at Belias
If they can't then still, just really surprised enjoying the Ivalice raids a lot.

In contrast, I want to scream at whichever one of the devs decided that Belias should jump out of the fight multiple times for 20+ seconds just to make sure that whatever proc you have is completely gone by the time he returns.

Still wish they used the Esper battle theme for the bosses but the Boss Fight theme is also good. Can't wait to see how they handle the more op boss fights like Ultima and Zodiark. I also really hope that the FFXII Judge armors make it in the last tier but I doubt it since I feel like we might be heading to the Orbonne Monastery assuming they stay with the whole origin of the auricites so in that case Templar gear similar to Melidaoul and Wiegraf in the last half of FFT would be okay too, but I still want judge gear.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, except for Famfrit. That boss can go die in whatever hole it crawled out of.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

I feel like we might be heading to the Orbonne Monastery

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Considering the last two.were FFXII themed, I'm not sure that it would be the monastery, my guess would be Giruvegan

Maybe it's my own burn out speaking, I can't push myself to run Ridorana beyond my clears and maybe if a friend needs a drop. I did a lot of Rabanaste and enjoyed every boss there - I loved Hashmal most. But Ridorana is making my head spin. I feel like too much is going on at once and I struggle trying to notice what's going on where, where the boss is turned, etc. Again maybe it takes practice like everything else but I've had much easier time with every other 24 raid till now. It's not that hard mechanics happen, I think it's more of the flashy-ness to them that make me more disoriented than usual for whatever reason.

I've done and ran all the 24 raids diligently till now. I can't pin point why Ridorana isn't catching my interest.

that second boss is so boring

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

In contrast, I want to scream at whichever one of the devs decided that Belias should jump out of the fight multiple times for 20+ seconds just to make sure that whatever proc you have is completely gone by the time he returns.

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I will not run the place as a monk entirely because of that.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

that second boss is so boring

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Which is probably why more and more people are griefing with the tethers. Had a friend who was in there who had nearly his entire party wipe because someone thought it'd be funny to intentionally run the stun tether through the alliance right before Belias' charge mechanic. Exclaiming their amusement in chat after the fact.

The rest of the fights are fun, but frankly I had wished Construct 7 had has an enrage mechanic of some sort when it first came out. It's less important /now/ that most people know the raid - but the 20 minute boss fight from the initial patch drop still haunts my dreams. The boss is easy enough to recover from but also just as easy for people to screw up on over and over again. Queue a merry-go-round of reviving people as we went, them biting it due to being overwhelmed and not having any proper time to take a step back and absorb the mechanics, and it just was a mess. It's not an issue now, but way back when it made me want to pull my hair out. At least it has some sick dance moves.

Other than that, I do find Famfrit annoying if only because it can be hard to see which way his ewer is pointing if you're damaging him from within melee range. But he's a fun fight regardless.

My first time there was a bit different. Great confusion, mechanics thrown here and there and you get wiped without even know who or why you got hit.

I got so a miserable experience there that for first time from the day I were playing the game, I wanted leave the duty before finishing it. Only reason I didn't, was because a friend joined with me and didn't want leave him alone.

I'm out. Don't even care for the i370 coin, I just don't want get there again. It is just my feeling now, maybe it will change over time. Not asking for nerfs.

Rest assured, savage raid enthusiasts will found fun there. Anyone wanting something different than too much easy raids and get more challenging stuff in 24-man, got here something good to play with.

Speaking of diversity, I wish they'd cut back on the "here are three adds - the boss is going to go untargetable for a while and you'll need each group to kill one" mechanic. Every boss in Rabanastre except Argath uses it and every single boss in Ridorana uses it.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

In contrast, I want to scream at whichever one of the devs decided that Belias should jump out of the fight multiple times for 20+ seconds just to make sure that whatever proc you have is completely gone by the time he returns.

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Screams in Dragoon about Nastrond
Screams in Dark Knight about Dark Arts
Screams in Warrior about Inner Release

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Speaking of diversity, I wish they'd cut back on the "here are three adds - the boss is going to go untargetable for a while and you'll need each group to kill one" mechanic. Every boss in Rabanastre except Argath uses it and every single boss in Ridorana uses it.

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They do that so the other two tanks have something tanky to do. I mean, look at Argath. You're essentially a DPS if you aren't main tanking. I really wish they'd actually force tank swaps or something, but considering how 24 mans go. That would undoubtedly lead to a lot of dead tanks.

eh, they actually nerfed it some compared to Rab. I'm surprised no one has complained about that.

Like one of the things is that the 3 add-phase no longer restricts you and can force a wipe that way. Construct 9 auto sorts, and no add phase locks you into little areas that can lock you out; the worst that happens in a stack mechanic that can kill you if two people stack in one area. You still have tethers, but you can't wipe like on rofocale because of confusion of where to go.

Add phases are a little weaker too, you don't auto wipe even if two parties screw up till the last boss, and the only real way to do that is to completely ignore tethers for a long time.

You also notice thing like how Construct 9 has a lot of dead time to enable players to raise others after attacks. Hashmal would often chain wipe you if you tried. Also kind of noticeable is that there are no hashmal level rushes, each rush is clearly telegraphed and very slow now.

It's pretty subtle, but I'm guessing their feedback on Rab internally was that it was a little too much of a pain, and rather than make it harder, they just disguised it a lot better.

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

In contrast, I want to scream at whichever one of the devs decided that Belias should jump out of the fight multiple times for 20+ seconds just to make sure that whatever proc you have is completely gone by the time he returns.

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If you refresh Greased Lightning the split second he jumps he'll actually come back while you have 1 second left on it so you can keep it up if you target him fast enough.
Of course that will never happen but still.

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Originally Posted by Ameela

If you refresh Greased Lightning the split second he jumps he'll actually come back while you have 1 second left on it so you can keep it up if you target him fast enough.
Of course that will never happen but still.

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If it weren't for the slow from the rushes, you could legitimately stand in one and refresh it through riddle. It only hits for 22k or so once. But that slow is annoying and removes that as an option.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

I really wish they'd actually force tank swaps or something, but considering how 24 mans go. That would undoubtedly lead to a lot of dead tanks.

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That's kinda the beauty of the alliance raids: the mechanics themselves are fairly simple, but they're combined with the sheer chaos of trying to get all those people to work collectively, which is where the challenge really comes in.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

They do that so the other two tanks have something tanky to do. I mean, look at Argath. You're essentially a DPS if you aren't main tanking. I really wish they'd actually force tank swaps or something, but considering how 24 mans go. That would undoubtedly lead to a lot of dead tanks.

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There are so many more things that the other two tanks could be doing. The Devs just need to think outside the box.

Meteor circles that would kill DPS.
Spread and other marker's that only target tanks.
Adds that have interesting mechanics:
- face away from party until it kills itself
- put on button
- feed it to boss
- keep away from boss

And that's just off the top of my head. A lot of these have already been done before and there is no reason why they can't change it up some more.

Fights like Amon, Cerberus and ozma show how you can create a unique fight with things for tanks to do

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

In contrast, I want to scream at whichever one of the devs decided that Belias should jump out of the fight multiple times for 20+ seconds just to make sure that whatever proc you have is completely gone by the time he returns.

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The number of melee combos I have lost to that sonofabeech on RDM is infuriating and I will never forgive him.

Now I get paranoid and if I'm in voice with anyone I'll be asking "Do you think he's gonna jump soon? I don't wanna waste Manafaction ;-;"

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

There are so many more things that the other two tanks could be doing. The Devs just need to think outside the box.

Meteor circles that would kill DPS.
Spread and other marker's that only target tanks.
Adds that have interesting mechanics:
- face away from party until it kills itself
- put on button
- feed it to boss
- keep away from boss

And that's just off the top of my head. A lot of these have already been done before and there is no reason why they can't change it up some more.

Fights like Amon, Cerberus and ozma show how you can create a unique fight with things for tanks to do

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I love all of this, I might actually tank it if these things were the case.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Considering the last two.were FFXII themed, I'm not sure that it would be the monastery, my guess would be

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More specifically the last two were FF12 locations on top of Tactics locations. (Rabanastre was on top of Lesalia, Ridorana was on top of Goug).

I fully expect this pattern to hold and I'm thinking either the Tomb of Raithwall or the Necrohol of Nabudis on top of Mullonde. That's just my feeling on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Sacred_Nym

More specifically the last two were FF12 locations on top of Tactics locations. (Rabanastre was on top of Lesalia, Ridorana was on top of Goug).

I fully expect this pattern to hold and I'm thinking either the Tomb of Raithwall or the Necrohol of Nabudis on top of Mullonde. That's just my feeling on the matter.

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An interesting take on it.

I just hope we get a Tactics-heavy ending to things. Rabanastre was technically 50/50 but Rofocale was never even featured in Tactics and Argath was more or less unrelated to his base character in my opinion. In Ridorana it's a 3/4 split in favor of FFXII though I do really enjoy the dancing during Constrct.

I'm hoping we head into the Tomb of Raithwall for a giant Demon Wall fight and then head down to Mullonde for some Tactics.

Not that I didn't enjoy FFXII of course, Tactics was just like my first video game so it holds a special place for me.

I'm wondering if the final boss will be an Occuria or Feolthanos.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Speaking of diversity, I wish they'd cut back on the "here are three adds - the boss is going to go untargetable for a while and you'll need each group to kill one" mechanic. Every boss in Rabanastre except Argath uses it and every single boss in Ridorana uses it.

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Even then, Argath has those Shards of Emptiness.

I'm looking forward to the next bosses, they've all been so unique so far. Wonder what Zalera and Exodus would be like.

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

I'm looking forward to the next bosses, they've all been so unique so far. Wonder what Zalera would be like.

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If past form is anything to go off of, there will very likely be death/doom mechanics and undead adds to deal with. Wouldn't be surprised if they give it an enrage mechanic either to reflect the time limit in the FFXII fight.

The Math Robot boss was complete BS though imho. If you suck at math, you DIE for it. I raid the place for a good time, good fights, and medicore gear, not to die to a boss who insta-kills you because you might not be great at math. Other than that dumb sh*t with the robot, the rest of the raid was beautiful. Final boss was great, but lag can kill you more than the boss can (>_>). Great raid though.








/2 cents

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Originally Posted by Usho

The Math Robot boss was complete BS though imho. If you suck at math, you DIE for it. I raid the place for a good time, good fights, and medicore gear, not to die to a boss who insta-kills you because you might not be great at math.

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What about other bosses that kill you for being bad at paying attention to multiple things at once, or pressing buttons fast enough? I think it's silly that people single out math as a skill that's unacceptable to test.

As an aside, you hardly have to be "great at math" to add single digit numbers...

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

I think it's silly that people single out math as a skill that's unacceptable to test.

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Players: "If I have x INT and I pop an x% INT potion that lasts 15s .25s before the boss uses his ultimate I can do x% more damage!"

Also players: "I have 3hp and you're asking me to figure out how to get to 5hp? WHAT. WHAT IS THIS MADNESS. HOW DARE YOU. Wait what you mean I have to memorise FIVE whole prime numbers AND figure out how to get to them? TABLE FLIP THIS IS THE WORST GAME EVER"

I like them, at least to a greater extent than most of the previous 24-man bosses. Due to the nature of the first two bosses (and especially because of one of the first boss's moves) I called doing my weeklies "doing the laundry".

I do like the bosses of LH, only thing that leaves me bummed is the music. Past raids (and bosses) had better music.

Construct 7 has probably been my favorite boss of all time out of all the 24 man raids. It has a certain entertainment value to it as well watching grown adults unable to count something as simple as 2 + 2 but I actually don't see many people having a problem with it anymore. It's been a while since I've seen anyone outright die from being unable to do simple math. I guess most people have gotten used to it. In any case going forward I hope they keep making more unique and fun bosses.

One thing I will say is that I dislike how much most of the bosses discourage uptime.
I feel like a good FFXIV boss lets you keep as much uptime as possible while still resolving the mechanics correctly (on a melee class at least) but pretty much every boss in this raid has mechanics where this simply isn't possible, and I'm not talking about the boss jumping out of the arena.

Famfrit has the targeted ground AoEs and Dark Ewer, the target AoEs aren't too bad if positioned correctly but Dark Ewer, more often than not, is just an annoying mechanic that makes you choose between taking unnecessary damage or losing DPS, it's erratic and unpredictable and when combined with the other mechanics in the fight it's just not fun to try and optimize.

Belias is probably the best boss when it comes to this problem as every instance of it can be avoided if everyone knows what they're doing which, of course, is very rare. You'll get instances of people running tethers through the middle of the arena forcing people to move around it and most of the time the main tank won't know how to position the boss correctly so that you can still hit it while Timed Explosion is happening, but again these problems aren't too bad if everyone's coordinated so I can forgive it.

Construct 7 has Pulverize which is just... dumb, the area of effect isn't clear and if you're a melee job that doesn't have a lot of mobility (see: Paladin, Ninja and Monk) you're pretty much screwed whenever this mechanic happens as you either lose out on a few GCDs or you get a damage down stack.

Yiazmat has the same problem as Belias where it's mostly dependant on positioning of the boss and people not screwing over the rest of the alliance, but the charge Rake is really annoying if luck isn't on your side when it happens at the same time as Magnetic Lysis, speaking of which it's also really annoying that if the boss is positioned badly during this mechanic and it does the conal AoE on either side and not the middle you have to choose between petrification or a vuln stack and a potential float which will kill you if the boss casts Cyclone after that.
Oh and if you're a melee DPS you can pretty much forget about positionals for this boss, he's way too big for how much he moves around and how much YOU have to move around.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

That's kinda the beauty of the alliance raids: the mechanics themselves are fairly simple, but they're combined with the sheer chaos of trying to get all those people to work collectively, which is where the challenge really comes in.

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Thing I hate most in 24 mans is the various circle mechanics. Where 8 or 9 of the alliance are stood in that nice little safe spot between marked players and there circles and some random marked players decide to put a circle in that safe spot as well and kill half the alliance in the process.

My other beef is camera zoom and visibility. Even at max zoom you can't really see famfrit spinning the urn because it's just too high for the camera. But that's becoming a problem in a few fights not just 24 mans.. they really need to let players zoom out more if they're going to continue with mechanics like tbat

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Originally Posted by Ghastly

I'm looking forward to the next bosses, they've all been so unique so far. Wonder what Zalera and Exodus would be like.

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Zalera is probably going to be in the next one, but I have doubts about Exodus (since he's kinda sorta Exdeath. Both are sentient trees and both want to reduce the world to a state of nothing).

I noticed so far all the plot-mandatory espers in XII have been bosses (with Rofocale standing in for Shamhazai). I'm thinking the next raid will have Adrammelech and Zalera, as while they were optional espers in XII, they were plot-relevant Lucavi in Tactics.

One thing...

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Originally Posted by Ameela

Famfrit has the targeted ground AoEs and Dark Ewer, the target AoEs aren't too bad if positioned correctly but Dark Ewer, more often than not, is just an annoying mechanic that makes you choose between taking unnecessary damage or losing DPS, it's erratic and unpredictable and when combined with the other mechanics in the fight it's just not fun to try and optimize.

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Dark Ewer is very predictable. It has 2 patterns and it uses them in the same order each time. First, it spawns 3 ewers on the edge of the arena. These will move in a straight line through the middle. Then it spawns 3 more at staggered distances from the middle. These will move in circles around the middle staying at the distance they start at. The closest and farthest move in one direction(i havent paid attention to whether they always use clockwise/counterclockwise or if they can do either), the middle one moves the opposite way. Ive seen tanks drag him out of the middle during ewer so that less dodging has to happen, you could encourage your groups to do the same. I believe he returns to the middle automatically to spin his urn, so they might not even have to reposition for that.

As for the next one, im just hoping they do something more to acknowledge Vagrant Story than a minor line in the hated wine subquest. Lift a boss or something. A 24 man Demon Wall(with actual shrinking battlefield and wipe should you go too slow) could be fun though.

I mostly like them, but the jug telegraph for Tsunami is BS. Camera has to be in exactly the right position to see what direction it's facing while not cutting it off completely at max distance, and even then someone can completely obscure it with Deathflare or a Limit Break, in addition to sometimes being in just the right place to have an Ewer spout cover it all up. I don't hate the mechanic behind it, but something needs to be adjusted just a little.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Players: "If I have x INT and I pop an x% INT potion that lasts 15s .25s before the boss uses his ultimate I can do x% more damage!"

Also players: "I have 3hp and you're asking me to figure out how to get to 5hp? WHAT. WHAT IS THIS MADNESS. HOW DARE YOU. Wait what you mean I have to memorise FIVE whole prime numbers AND figure out how to get to them? TABLE FLIP THIS IS THE WORST GAME EVER"

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I love this post. Don't forget that you have to stop pressing all your damage buttons the entire time you're attempting to add the single-digit numbers; it's just that hard.

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

What about other bosses that kill you for being bad at paying attention to multiple things at once, or pressing buttons fast enough? I think it's silly that people single out math as a skill that's unacceptable to test.

As an aside, you hardly have to be "great at math" to add single digit numbers...

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You mean like tapping a ATE button with the MOUSE? That itself is easy and a relatively fun mechanic they added. That and other mechanics that don't require to take a math test in the middle of a FIGHT is actually fun cause you come up with strategys and all you need to do is pay more attention. The math mechanic was full of sh*t and stupid as hell to add to a video game boss fight. I play to have fun not to do homework. If they wanted to add math problems to the game, put it as a mini game in the Gold Saucer, not in a boss fight of a raid. It makes no sense, has NOTHING at all to do with Construct 7 nor fighting him in the original FFT. Not everyone is great at math, like myself, and the fact that you die because you aren't great with math problems in a fight that's supposed to fun makes no sense and is a waste of time. Other than the math bullsh*t, the rest of the fight with Construct 7 was enjoyable.



But if you find it enjoyable Azbroolah (oh god your name is annoying to type in the morning), then more power to you, I'm sure you'll get a A on your math test.






/2 cents

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Originally Posted by Usho

/2 cents

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If it was some sort of complicated algebra problem I would be right there with you, instead it's basic multiplication and addition. If you can't do these quick enough you can literally write out the permutations on a postit and stick it below your screen. You can even survive one failed attempt per set if you just have healers who get you topped up and toss a little mitigation on you depending on your gear.

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Originally Posted by Usho

2 cents

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Honestly the math thing was cool and different. And kept at such a simple level. I mean it barely even touches double digits...

I might understand people hating it if they had to quickly work out if there 44819 hp was a prime number or was divisible by 3 then yeah i could understand people flipping tables.

But yeah when the numbers involved in the mechanic barely ever touch double digits it's really not a bad mechanic at all. They kept it nice and simple.

I even try to empathise with those bad at math because there's mechanics out there I struggled to do because of being protanopic (colour blind) but then it is the most fundamental level maths and they the casts are pretty slow so it's not like you only have 2 seconds to work it out.

Oh and 44819 is prime if you wondered..

If like to see more of it. Bit more interesting than the usual stack dodge or spread stuff..

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

Construct 7 has probably been my favorite boss of all time out of all the 24 man raids. It has a certain entertainment value to it as well watching grown adults unable to count something as simple as 2 + 2 but I actually don't see many people having a problem with it anymore. It's been a while since I've seen anyone outright die from being unable to do simple math. I guess most people have gotten used to it. In any case going forward I hope they keep making more unique and fun bosses.

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People are not dying to it anymore because they have now learned what the mechanic is asking of them. Counting with single digits was never the problem for most people and isn't some great accomplishment that should make one feel superior to others.

The maths boss is my favourite because of the HP drop mechanic. It's one of the few times there's something to do as a healer. I would have enjoyed harded calculations too. My least favorite mechanic is the stun chain on the time boss because someone always sweeps half the group with it.

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Originally Posted by Usho

You mean like tapping a ATE button with the MOUSE?

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Who the hell does that? Is this a Savage restriction? No ATE in non Savage/Extreme content requires you do that, just hit all the buttons on your controller or keyboard and you'll be fine. You don't actually have to click the button on the screen.

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I play to have fun not to do homework.

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There's a reason why that fight's meme is "are you smarter than a fourth grader".

Construct 7 isn't about math, it's about memorization. You know, like basically everything else in the game. You have so few options, you barely even need to apply logic. And if you can't, before he finishes casting, figure out that in order to reach a Prime from 9 you need either 11 or 13 (seriously, about the single most complicated combination in there), you probably use your credit card a lot because checking your change in a day to day basis requires better math than this.
All my sympathy to people who legit can't do it because of the math. But it feels like so many people just saw the numbers and started hyperventilating regardless of how hard it is.