MCH skill job suggestions

So I recently started playing MCH and I'll probably main it but the thing that sort of bothers me with MCH is that you need to monitor the heat gauge, bullets, proc skills, turrets and cooldowns as well as watch for mechanics, your health and debuffs which I struggle with during some dungeons, raids, etc.

I also feel like too much has to be done to get the maximum DPS from your attacks. Hot Shot, gauss barrel and then the ammunition on top of maintaining your heat for the damage increase. I feel like some attacks should be removed and the effects should just be added to other skills.

Hot Shot
As I stated before I've only begun with MCH, it seems like this is only used every minute for the damage increase. I feel like Hot Shot just needs to be removed and have the attack potency increase effect added to the Reload and Quick Reload skills.

Or hell, just increase the potency of Gauss Barrel and remove the need for Hot Shot.

Wildfire and Rapid Fire
Is there any reason to use Rapid Fire outside of Wildfire? (i'm still learning) but isn't the idea of Rapid Fire to boost attack speed while using Wildfire to squeeze in as many attacks to get the best DPS? What if Wildfire and Rapid Fire were just one skill and Wildfire boosted attack speed along with its original usage?

MCH has a number of questionable design choices that add up to a bunch of unwanted clunk.

• Gauss Barrel has literally no reason to exist as an ability in its current incarnation.
• Flamethrower is one of the worst feeling skills in the game.

Among other things.
I disagree with the sentiments about Hot Shot however.
If anything I'd rather the damage buff be increased and the duration shortened so that your rotation between Wildfires has a little more going on.

I will say, at level 70, and when you master the best way to do your rotations, you almost never have to even think about where your Heat level is at due to the way everything lines up (unless you have out of whack skill speed...). Ammunition should become muscle memory too.

You're correct that Rapid Fire is best paired with Wildfire, for single target at least. In dungeon trash it's fine to use it for a few quick spread shots.

I'd rather some changes about FT and skills animation duration.
Clipping way to much.

As Lumadurin said, there are definitely some odd design choices and you can expect another big rework of the job for 5.0.

Usually the biggest complain are (not in any specific order)

- Wildfire is too restrictive / latency dependant and requires you too weave too many skills when using it (Rapide Fire for instance... which doesn't help the weaving problem)
- Too much of the gameplay revolves around that Wildfire short window. however unlike Bahmut/ Dreawyrm Trance, this windows isn't a walk in the park to execute.
- Turrets are useless and boring (beside being an enormous DoT you preplace)
- Heat mechanic is either loved or hated. I prefered the 4.0 version of it, I think it was more fun. Now it takes too much time to builds up
- Flamethrower being what it is
- Gauss Barrel being another useless mechanic that's just there for the sake of it.


I'm expecting big changes for the machinist
I am not expecting the Heat Mechanic to go away (but i'm expecting some rework)
I am expecting big change to wildfire and possibly the merge of Wildfire/Rapide Fire into a single skill as you said.

Regarding Hot Shot, if they don't add any interaction with a future skill, I wouldn't be surprised if that skill just get removed.
On the other hand, we have to use hot shot on quite a few job quest so... perhaps it will stay be simply be reworked / improved
With the addition of 3-4 new skills (1-2 traits), some skill will go away, especially on a job that is already considered hard to play.


Personally I'd like to see more gadget, I mean... this is the "Machinist" not the "Hot gunner"

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

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Agree with pretty much all this. The larger Wildfire window in Heavensward was nice because on a basic level, apart from things like Reassemble, it didn't necessarily matter when you used the skills and in what order, as long as they all fitted inside, which they had time for. At worst you might not be able to squeeze in a quick non-cast Split Shot at the last split second which wasn't earth-shattering. I think increasing the window would be the simplest way to make it less of a frantic, clipping mess every wildfire, especially for those with higher ping. And adjusting other timers around it accordingly.

The Heat Gauge is a weird one. It's a nice mechanic on paper, and I like that kind of thing in other games, but it just doesn't really gel too well here. Specifically the Overheat part at least. I've seen suggested making Flamethrower an automatic Overheat when used, potentially even sustaining the overheat timer at 10s until FT ends. Which would be a great fix given current mechanics, but I don't know if we'd see something like that before the next expansion. It will be interesting to see how they handle FT / OH.

I'm not sure about expecting big changes. Or at least, any "big" changes might not be for the better. I'd rather keep expectations low.

As for MCH currently.. I don't know, it's probably just me.. But I don't really see a problem with it? It's certainly tough to execute in some situations. I've enjoyed MCH more in SB than I ever thought I would in HW, but I just finally started raiding with it this week for a friend's group I'm helping out. Watch the struggle from last night here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/274493392 (my first time MCH on God Kefka)

Perhaps I'm lucky with decent internet so double-weaving and stuff isn't too much of an issue. My only real "complaint" with MCH is it seems like every effin mechanic lines up in a wildfire window. It requires an extreme amount finger acrobatics sometimes. But IMO it's part of the challenge of the class. It's not an easy job to master and it's OK to have jobs that aren't easy to master. But it's all just my personal opinion. I'd take a little more forgiveness with Wildfire execution but not at the expense of making it brain dead.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

- Wildfire is too restrictive / latency dependant and requires you too weave too many skills when using it (Rapide Fire for instance... which doesn't help the weaving problem)
- Too much of the gameplay revolves around that Wildfire short window. however unlike Bahmut/ Dreawyrm Trance, this windows isn't a walk in the park to execute.

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I feel like Wildfire isn't going to go anywhere, so MCH will always have that execution-heavy burn window in its kit. It would be nice if the window was more intuitive and open, though.

Perhaps they could blend the open Wildfire window of HW with the restricted GCD count of SB. Increase the WF window back to 15s, but add an additional trigger where WF automatically detonates after the 5th weaponskill used in the window (WF debuff has a counter that counts down the number of WS left before detonation). It would at least solve the latency-based issue for MCH. Overheat would probably have to be increased to 12~15s to compensate.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

- Turrets are useless and boring (beside being an enormous DoT you preplace)

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Definitely a byproduct of the move from HW to SB. Would be nice to have a bit more interaction from the turrets, like a CD order-to-attack that doesn't blow it up.

Hey what if, just for kicks, Ricochet was altered to target the turret? The MCH shoots a special shot at the turret that changes depending on which turret they have out. If the Bishop (AoE) is active, the the shot scatters and damages the area around the turret. If the Rook is active, the shot ricochets and strikes the turret's current target (more damage than AoE version).

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

- Heat mechanic is either loved or hated. I prefered the 4.0 version of it, I think it was more fun. Now it takes too much time to builds up

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Never experienced the 4.0 heat management, but I'd like to. It would certainly be interesting to actually play with managing heat between Wildfires.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

- Flamethrower being what it is

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Visually, Flamethrower is stunning. Mechanically, it has its use as to go-to-overheat button. But the aesthetic combined with how it's optimally used is terrible outside of the opener. I absolutely hate the "puff" (getting the one tick out to go into overheat). I'd be satisfied if the norm was 2 ticks of FT minimum, so it's at least held out for an entire second.

What if, alongside increasing heat from WS back to 10, FT had a scaling heat increase per tick? Say the first tick of FT adds 5 heat, then the second tick adds 10 (5×2) heat, and the third tick adds 15 (5×3) heat up to a maximum of 25 heat per tick. This way, as long as the user wasn't at 95 heat before activating FT, it would have to be held for at least one second to get 2 ticks out. The drawback with this would be that 0-to-Overheat would require 6 ticks (5s) of FT instead of the current 5 ticks (4s).

Could also reduce the base damage and throw in a stacking burn DoT (a la PvP) just for kicks. Each FT tick adds a stack of burn DoT (max 5 stacks) and refreshes the burn duration.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

- Gauss Barrel being another useless mechanic that's just there for the sake of it.

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Agreed, hate it. Simplest change (as many others have suggested) would be to make it a trait at 52 that adds 5% damage dealt, then add the heat mechanic alongside Cooldown at 62. Have the barrel automatically reapply after Overheat's 10s lockout.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Regarding Hot Shot, if they don't add any interaction with a future skill, I wouldn't be surprised if that skill just get removed.

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With it being called "Hot Shot", maybe they'll add some interaction with the heat gauge or something.

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Originally Posted by Pyitoechito

Never experienced the 4.0 heat management, but I'd like to. It would certainly be interesting to actually play with managing heat between Wildfires.

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PvP is about as close as you can get now, since they kept 10 heat per heated shot there. Wildfire is quite different now though.

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Originally Posted by Pyitoechito

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Oh Wildfire will stay for sure, but as I said, the way it currently opperates is an issue. It requires too much weaving and a good connection for that weaving.
It's not a fun mechanic to execute (I'm sure some people love it but overall feedback are rather negative)
There's tons of things thye could do. One of the popular request is either extend the duration or make it affect a fixed amount of GCD. I'm more in favoir of the last one, so your connection wouldn't matter.

I love the Ricochet suggestion :p and yes Flamethrower is visually very pleasing, but that's pretty much where the awesomeness of this skill both start and end, the visual.

Hot Shot used to grant more Heat if I remember correctly.
But yeah it could be improved through a trait or something.



I mean, I just summarized what, overall, people say about the MCH. Some people may be fine with some aspect of what I listed but that's what I feel is the general feeling.
For the Heat Mechanic I think it's more on the "hate" side of things currently. I loved it in 4.0 (and A LOT of people despised it).
But I have to say that it made the Wildfire windows even more erractic. Managing the Heat + The wildfire wasn't always super easy.

On the other hand, the fact that bullet kept your gun from Heating actually had a real impact on your gameplay.
I can't recall numbers properly because I just play MCH occasionnally but I think it was something like 10 Heat per skill and 15 or 20 for Hot Shot or something.

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Originally Posted by Idolon

PvP is about as close as you can get now, since they kept 10 heat per heated shot there. Wildfire is quite different now though.

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Well I at least got the higher heat right :p

Heartbreak is most likely the bloat that will be cut for 5.0. It just doesn't have much place in Machinist's kit anymore.

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

Oh Wildfire will stay for sure, but as I said, the way it currently opperates is an issue. It requires too much weaving and a good connection for that weaving.
It's not a fun mechanic to execute (I'm sure some people love it but overall feedback are rather negative)
There's tons of things thye could do. One of the popular request is either extend the duration or make it affect a fixed amount of GCD. I'm more in favoir of the last one, so your connection wouldn't matter.

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Rapid Fire works on both a duration and "next 3 weaponskills", so I can see that easily working for Wildfire (e.g., Detonates after 5 weaponskills; Duration: 15s).

Hot shot was 10 no matter what. Heated shot were 10. When you died you had to spam hot shot to get back to 50 heat cause your fixer was a 2 minutes CD.
But the heated gameplay was more interesting than today and cooldown was used more than once every minute (not counting WF window)

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Originally Posted by Sylvain

On the other hand, the fact that bullet kept your gun from Heating actually had a real impact on your gameplay.

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Using ammo is still crucial to not overheating early.

I could get behind a fixed GCD amount for Wildfire, but the issue isn't so much with getting 5 GCDs in Wildfire as it is getting them in the Overheat window. So something like a 12 second Overheat would be great (or even a fixed GCD Overheat to go along with Wildfire). I mean, it even sort of makes sense with Cooldown being your last 2 shots to "cool" that barrel off lol

Re-applying GB throws me off sometimes so I've been trying to keep it lined up with Hot Shot, basically applying it as GB comes off CD so I can dual-weave GB/BS after. Probably not ideal but helps me stay consistent. I find myself on the fence about having GB re-apply automatically, though. Without any interaction it just becomes a stance that's there just to be there, and that's not really a fun mechanic just a button you press and forget about.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Using ammo is still crucial to not overheating early.
Wildfire as it is getting them in the Overheat window. So something like a 12 second Overheat would be great
I find myself on the fence about having GB re-apply automatically, though. Without any interaction it just becomes a stance that's there just to be there, and that's not really a fun mechanic just a button you press and forget about.

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I didn't say it isn't crucial, (or didn't intend to make it sound this way)
What I wanted to say, more specifically, is that removing Heat gain when skills had +10heat had more impact than now with +5.

Regarding the overheat window, it is also something that add to the complexity, this is very true. (Which again makes the whole "WildFire/RapidFire/Overheat" thing something that needs to be adressed.)

Beside the utility of have the GB re apply itself (so basically turning it into a trait), I also have an issue with the skill animation. God it looks ugly on my gun, especially small guns. And I know quite a few people sharing that issue. (Yes i know there's a command you can do to hide it but still)