Suggestion: Bring back traditional Final Fantasy spell names

One of my minor gripes with FFXIV is the lack of elements that feel uniquely Final Fantasy, or well, unique in general. It feels too generic, and one thing contributing to that is the lack of elements unique to the Final Fantasy franchise. For one, the spell names.

Even back in the original FFXIV, spell names from the rest of the franchise were used. Fira, Firaga, Curaga, Thundaja, so on, so forth. Re-adding these would not be difficult at all, and add back a little bit of Final Fantasy charm to the game that in my opinion, is currently missing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrMaverick

One of my minor gripes with FFXIV is the lack of elements that feel uniquely Final Fantasy, or well, unique in general. It feels too generic, and one thing contributing to that is the lack of elements unique to the Final Fantasy franchise. For one, the spell names.

Even back in the original FFXIV, spell names from the rest of the franchise were used. Fira, Firaga, Curaga, Thundaja, so on, so forth. Re-adding these would not be difficult at all, and add back a little bit of Final Fantasy charm to the game that in my opinion, is currently missing.

---

I agree with you but the translation team won't do it for some reason. The names are Fire, Fira, Firaga, etc. in the Japanese version but we get Fire I, Fire II, Fire III even though the implied logical sequence doesn't exist. I mean, Fire I and Fire II have completely different use cases and you never chain them, you're not supposed to cast I in order to cast II... for all the liberties they take with the translation and translating the rather standard Japanese script of the original into the unique version we have, why be so sterile and boring with our elemental spell names when there's precedence to make them unique?

I think the localization team made a mistake and it's too late to change it now, so they pretend it's cool and totally what they meant all along. I kind of hope someone makes a mod that changes the text but it's not a huge deal in the long run.

This is mostly a localization topic rather than a UI topic, but here are some points from the several times we've discussed this topic in the past.

In most of Final Fantasy history, spell names have used suffixes xor spell names have used numbers, with a bigger suffix or a bigger number designating a stronger spell. This works largely because in most of FF history, AoE spells have simply been single target spells dispersed over all targets. The notable exception is XI, which because of its MMO-sized spell set, needed ways to differentiate between spells with different effects and so introduced suffixes as targeting indicators (the naming system actually became an interface feature) used concurrently with numbers to designate relative strength.

While it sounds like a simple thing just to rename all the spells using some sort of suffix system, it's not so straightforward.

Consider BLM and WHM which are pretty much the only jobs that would be affected by this.

If we just changed the numbers to suffixes, we'd get this:

Code:

---

Spell            I        II      III        IV

Fire          Fire      Fira    Firaga    Firaja
Blizzard  Blizzard  Blizzara  Blizzaga  Blizzaja
Thunder    Thunder  Thundara  Thundaga  Thundaja

Cure          Cure    Cur??    Cur??        --
Medica      Cur??    Cur??        --        --
Stone        Stone    Stonra    Stonga    Stonja
Aero          Aero  Aera/ora    Aeroga        --

---

Besides the obvious question of how to allocate the Cur- names between Cure and Medica, we have a naming scheme where the suffixes don't really have any meaning other than to sound cool. Since the suffix system doesn't have any mechanical purpose over the number system, the consideration comes down to, "Will a typical player be able to make the correct association between a spell and its effect?" While it may be easy for some, and certainly comfortable for a Final Fantasy fan, some players are playing XIV as their first Final Fantasy. The number system means those players don't have to accustom themselves to set of suffixes that don't encode any information. Is Fira the AoE spell or is Firaga? What about Aerora or Aeroga? Stonra or Stonga?


If we map the spells to a suffix system based on effect, we get something like this:

Code:

---

Spell            I        II          III            IV

Fire          Fire    Firaga      Fire II      Fire III
Blizzard  Blizzard  Blizzara  Blizzard II  Blizzard III
Thunder    Thunder  Thundaga  Thunder II  Thundaga II

Cure          Cure  Cure II      Curaga            --
Medica        Cura  Cura II          --            --
Stone        Stone  Stone II    Stone III      Stone IV
Aero          Aero  Aero II      Aeroga            --

---

(I've struck out the spell names that wouldn't change.)

This could have worked well had we used this system from the beginning. It's too late for that now, though. Changing the system would cause all sorts of trouble. Of the spells that would be renamed, almost half of them would be names that we've already been using for other spells for the last four years. Discussions of rotations and tactics between veterans, newbies, and returners would be prone to misunderstanding. And anyone who looks up one of the many out-of-date guides online would just end up even more lost.

In short, the ship has sailed. We have what we have.

It could still be done. The biggest oddball is the Medica series, but actually if we look back to caveman times in FF1, this series of spells was called Heal. Heal, Healra, Healga, and Healja would be perfectly reasonable names within the established pattern.

I agree that changing them now causes a lot more problems than it solves, but it could still theoretically have been done this way to begin with.

This kinda bugged me too..but at least fire 1 2 and 3 are easily understood ignoring the differences.

Medica should stay medica...give the fancy cure names to cure....simple. Easy.

Just my 2 cents.

The original spells in the Final Fantasy series used numbers instead of suffixes from the original Final Fantasy until Final Fantasy VII. Suffixes weren't used until Final Fantasy VIII. So technically, FFXIV is following the older Final Fantasy tradition by using numbers. It also makes it easier to translate as the localization team doesn't have to figure out how to translate a bunch of made-up suffixes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

The original spells in the Final Fantasy series used numbers instead of suffixes from the original Final Fantasy until Final Fantasy VII. Suffixes weren't used until Final Fantasy VIII. So technically, FFXIV is following the older Final Fantasy tradition by using numbers. It also makes it easier to translate as the localization team doesn't have to figure out how to translate a bunch of made-up suffixes.

---

Welllll... yes and no.

The English releases for Final Fantasy games used numbered spells up until 8.

See before that (with the exception of 7), the localization team was dealing with strict character limits on spell names. Final Fantasy 1 only allowed 4 character names. This is fine for Japanese because you can put a lot in 4 characters (Thundaga -サンダガ is only 4 characters), but with English you couldn't do that so they had to have a different way of handling it. In the Playstation era they could ease up on the space limits that spell names took up. Not sure what they were doing with FF7, maybe they thought that the game numbering would be confusing enough for our poor feeble American brains and didn't want to change too much on us.

It would not make sense to bring them back being that it's not a turn based system anymore. So it makes more sense for it to change into actions based on level. Besides even in old FF games it's best just to re organize them to get them in order rather than look for them. this game leads more into activation based on steps so you still get them, just not in individual icons for each step.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

The number system means those players don't have to accustom themselves to set of suffixes that don't encode any information. Is Fira the AoE spell or is Firaga? What about Aerora or Aeroga? Stonra or Stonga?

---

Well, the numbers don't encode any of that information either. Whether it's a number or a suffix, either way things like which ones are AoE have to just be learned by rote. If anything, the numbers suggest a progression that doesn't exist, which leads to more confusion rather than less.

But the other point, that it's too late to go back now, I (somewhat regretfully) agree with. I would have preferred for them to use the standard suffixes from the outset, but not for them to try and change it now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

It would not make sense to bring them back being that it's not a turn based system anymore.

---

What would being turn based have to do with the names of spells? (And besides, the games that used the suffixes in English translation weren't turn based anyway. Only the first three games in the series were turn based. After that they moved into their active time battle system and then assorted variations on it, including FFXIV's.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niwashi

What would being turn based have to do with the names of spells? (And besides, the games that used the suffixes in English translation weren't turn based anyway. Only the first three games in the series were turn based. After that they moved into their active time battle system and then assorted variations on it, including FFXIV's.)

---

FFX was turn-based and used the suffix system. But you're absolutely right that the two have nothing to do with one another.

FFXI actually used both systems simultaneously.

Fire, Fire II, Fire III, Fira, Fira II, Firaga, Firaga II, Firaga III, etc

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Niwashi

Well, the numbers don't encode any of that information either. Whether it's a number or a suffix, either way things like which ones are AoE have to just be learned by rote. If anything, the numbers suggest a progression that doesn't exist, which leads to more confusion rather than less.

---

If the suffixes aren't meaningful, then a numbering system is strictly better because, as you said, "either way things like which ones are AoE have to be learned by rote."

With suffixes, you first have to create your own internal association for suffixes to some arbitrary classification system, then associate them to spell effects.
With numbers, your native language has already defined this arbitrary classification system for you.


Example:
Assume you are given the spells Carve, Carvo, Carvito, and Carviro and tasked with learning their effects. Assume the suffixes serve no purpose other than to give each spell a unique name.

1) First you have to learn how to distinguish the four spell names from each other.
2) Then you can associate their effects.

If the spells were simply named Carve, Carve 2, Carve 3, and Carve 4, you would skip (1) because the difference between (nothing), 2, 3, and 4 is already well defined in your language to the point that you don't have to think about it.

I think one of the ideas to keep it numbered was to make it more easily understood by new players. They would be able to recognise which spell is stronger by the number and not get confused by multiple suffixes. Of course for avid players of the FF series they wouldn't have this issue, but XIV can be a bit more demanding in battle situations when you haven't got the time to check your action page to find out what everything does.

Also going forward it will be interesting how the suffixes will be used when we get spells past the IV/ja tier.

if you play in german you dont have fire 1,2,3,4. we have the old ff style. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Callinon

FFX was turn-based and used the suffix system. But you're absolutely right that the two have nothing to do with one another.

FFXI actually used both systems simultaneously.

Fire, Fire II, Fire III, Fira, Fira II, Firaga, Firaga II, Firaga III, etc

---

if i remeber in FFXI fire was single target aga was targetable aoe ra was aoe based off caster i forget JA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurando

I think one of the ideas to keep it numbered was to make it more easily understood by new players. They would be able to recognise which spell is stronger by the number and not get confused by multiple suffixes. Of course for avid players of the FF series they wouldn't have this issue, but XIV can be a bit more demanding in battle situations when you haven't got the time to check your action page to find out what everything does.

---

Eh I don't entirely buy that. By the time battles get complicated enough that you have to determine which button is the most important one to push, you've been sitting on those buttons for several dozen hours.

Also the numbering system carries its own confusion. A friend of mine is leveling his WHM and I had to sit there and explain to him that Cure 3 is not stronger than Cure 2. That's totally unintuitive but it is the case. There's also no reason within the numbering system for Fire 2, Blizzard 2, Thunder 2, and Thunder 4 to be AoEs when the other members of those series are not.

It's all rote memorization any way you slice it. Don't attach extra intention to the naming system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ordoric

if i remeber in FFXI fire was single target aga was targetable aoe ra was aoe based off caster i forget JA

---

-ja spells in FFXI were like super-powered -ga spells. Just beefier AoEs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Callinon

It could still be done. The biggest oddball is the Medica series, but actually if we look back to caveman times in FF1, this series of spells was called Heal. Heal, Healra, Healga, and Healja would be perfectly reasonable names within the established pattern.

---

They would be perfectly ugly abominations of the English language.
I mean 'Heal' is a perfectly good name for a spell that tells you what it does. 'Healja' isn't even a proper word, let alone reasonable.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

They would be perfectly ugly abominations of the English language.
I mean 'Heal' is a perfectly good name for a spell that tells you what it does. 'Healja' isn't even a proper word, let alone reasonable.

---

Have you ever played an RPG?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Callinon

Have you ever played an RPG?

---

Lots. Both pen-and-paper RPGs and computer RPGs. Vast majority of them have comprehensible names for spells. The exceptions mainly being old computer games that for technical reasons used abbreviations of the spell names.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Lots. Both pen-and-paper RPGs and computer RPGs. Vast majority of them have comprehensible names for spells. The exceptions mainly being old computer games that for technical reasons used abbreviations of the spell names.

---

It's entirely possible the original use of suffixes was because of the limited space available, but then they carried it forward and it became part of the Final Fantasy series itself. Complaining now that the words aren't "proper English" seems more than a little silly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Callinon

It's entirely possible the original use of suffixes was because of the limited space available, but then they carried it forward and it became part of the Final Fantasy series itself. Complaining now that the words aren't "proper English" seems more than a little silly.

---

I don't care what was done in other Final Fantasy games. I haven't played any of them, and have no plans to play any of them. From what I have heard, the use of suffixes is not universal throughout the FF series anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MistakeNot

I don't care what was done in other Final Fantasy games. I haven't played any of them, and have no plans to play any of them. From what I have heard, the use of suffixes is not universal throughout the FF series anyway.

---

You're missing out then, a lot of them are excellent (some of them are 13... but that's neither here nor there).

Even if you have no prior exposure to the Final Fantasy series, you can at least acknowledge that you're playing Final Fantasy FOURTEEN. It's probably reasonable to assume that the 14th entry in a series probably shares some history with the entries before it.

The use of suffixes is pretty universal in this series. I've explained the reason it wasn't done in the early English translations.

I hate numbers being thrown out randomly, anything to have the more traditional naming.

They don't even make sense when 1 is single target, 2 is AoE but only for damaging spells, 3 is again AoE but somehow smaller and only for Cure spells, 4 is again AoE but only for Thunder while Fire and Blizzard are single target. What the hell.

A mixed system would be optimal: numbers for increased potency, -ga/-ja for AoE on target, -ra for AoE on caster. Easy, consistent and visually appealing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Imakun

I hate numbers being thrown out randomly, anything to have the more traditional naming.

They don't even make sense when 1 is single target, 2 is AoE but only for damaging spells, 3 is again AoE but somehow smaller and only for Cure spells, 4 is again AoE but only for Thunder while Fire and Blizzard are single target. What the hell.

A mixed system would be optimal: numbers for increased potency, -ga/-ja for AoE on target, -ra for AoE on caster. Easy, consistent and visually appealing.

---

That's my problem with it too. The numbers don't convey the one thing numbers are good at conveying. Simply copying FFXI's naming/numbering system would have been a much better choice. FFXI had a great naming system for spells (also a lot more spells, so it was super important).

While I was watching old episodes of Remnants of a realm, I noticed something in the 1.0 gameplay; Aero II was being used by a caster, with that name specifically. However, in much other gameplay you'd see the typical Fira, Firaga, so on, so forth. This means that naming the magic spells when they happen to be different mechanic-wise isn't an issue. Aero III as it's known now could be simply known as Aero II, with the upgrading Aero being known as Aero I... Aeroa I? Aera I? I don't actually know. And Aerora I. Stone could still be Stone I, II and III as it is mechanically different to traditional spells. I don't know EXACTLY how the spell naming scheme worked in 1.0- I'll have to keep an eye out.