Seeing Square Enix in a new light. I am grateful for this game.

Ever since i have played this game back in 2013 i always had negative views always looking at the worst about the game and never bothered to think of what a truly amazing game it is. I have always shunned the dev team, yoshi, and overall the entire game. While i do still think it would be nice for things to be touched up here and there for a little more quality and stride for new hights. It is just recent that i have viewed this game in a new light. Let me give you all some context here. Not long ago Tera came to the ps4 and i wanted to try it out as a backup game in case i ever have issues keeping my subscription going for Final Fantasy 14. So i played the first and second beta. It was terrible even for a beta. It was basically unplayable for a large majority of players.

A day after servers went online people still could not even log in. You could take 2 steps and freeze or crash, game stutters, or just plain get stuck with progression because of a quest bug. I thought oh well maybe they will get on top of it for official launch. Come official launch a lot of the serious game breaking issues still existed, and People were paying for this with the new founder packs and elite status sadly. I thought to myself "well this isn't right" and it wasn't. To further the pain Enmasse/Bluehole (the hosting company of the game) has terrible communication with their player base almost never notifying anyone what is going on or even if they acknowledge and work on any issues in particular. On top of that the game just did not seem right for me gameplay and mechanic wise either. There is kill stealing so you have to compete for everything in the game. The dungeons are screwed up you cant even start till everyone is there and uses a battle potion so if someone is afk or dc's your screwed and you have to leave.

There's just so much wrong with it that i cant even put everything into one post, but other than this context i don't want to talk about another game too much in Final Fantasy's forums. So let me close with my final point. After this entire experience trying a free to play game as a backup. I have realized that i took Final Fantasy 14 for granted way too much. Always seeing the negative in it instead of appreciating what i really have/had. Final fantasy 14 is the smoothest and best running game i have ever played and now that i have tried other mmo's (even if Tera is still new to the console i hear the pc version has had serious issues unattended to for years) i finally realize the true greatness of Final Fantasy 14. The game play is breathtaking and for the amazing graphics and beautiful scenery it runs perfectly even on ps4 with no freezing or stuttering. The Square Enix team is truly amazing at optimizing and creating games, and i just wanted to thank them from the bottom of my heart for the fun times i have had because of their hard work on a game that i truly love. Thank you.

the sad part is the game (tera) is p2w when it comes to those potions because the best ones are in elite and the player base will fight you about it.... but just like you i've tryed to goto other games and cant because of all the issues you've listed off that you had with tera.

It's kinda true. I've played dozens of games in between my time on this game (been playing since ps3 launch back in 2013) and not a single one has given me the same kind of experiences I've got from this game. The closest I can think of is only a recent new game, Monster Hunter World. But even after 200 some odd hours it's gotten a bit stale to me. So, Kudos to SE. For all the ranting and raving that goes on around here it's definitely one of the most solid games on the market.

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Originally Posted by Niraye

the sad part is the game (tera) is p2w when it comes to those potions because the best ones are in elite and the player base will fight you about it.... but just like you i've tryed to goto other games and cant because of all the issues you've listed off that you had with tera.

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I completely agree with you, and while the mog station fills with buyable glamours i doubt it will ever become pay to win and that is one of the good things about final fantasy. Pay to win just isn't right considering all it does is pander to the people with bigger pocket books who are willing to waste money. Even if i had all that extra money i would never want to waste it for pay to win kind of things.

I've been defending FFXIV until now. Lately not so much anymore. It's not even Eureka, I enjoyed it for the short time it lasted but FFXIV feels blant outside of Raiding nowdays. Just nothing that really excites one. :|

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

It's kinda true. I've played dozens of games in between my time on this game (been playing since ps3 launch back in 2013) and not a single one has given me the same kind of experiences I've got from this game. The closest I can think of is only a recent new game, Monster Hunter World. But even after 200 some odd hours it's gotten a bit stale to me. So, Kudos to SE. For all the ranting and raving that goes on around here it's definitely one of the most solid games on the market.

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I myself have ranted and raved before, while i do still hope for them to better things even further after my recent experiences with Tera i feel like i should not be as negative as i used to be. I really appreciate what i have because at the least its better than most others out there, and i know for a fact it is well worth the 14 dollars a month to be a part of Final Fantasy 14. It really is something special to be a part of.

I feel the same way, a bit of perspective helps. You can at least count on FF XIV having a certain quality standard and consistency in everything they do. If there was a better mmo we'd be playing that game. I'm here because the overall experience is better than anything else on the market imo and the team is very reliable to keep providing quality content for a very long time.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

I feel the same way, a bit of perspective helps. You can at least count on FF XIV having a certain quality standard and consistency in everything they do. If there was a better mmo we'd be playing that game. I'm here because the overall experience is better than anything else on the market imo and the team is very reliable to keep providing quality content for a very long time.

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Yes i think that is exactly what it is about with Square. They have standards and don't stoop to dirty tactics and things that other mmo's do to make that extra dollar. It's those standards that make me feel like a premium among people who play other mmo's because i chose Square Enix.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

-snip-

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The quality can vary, imo. Sometimes they hit it out of the park, otherwise it's strike 1, 2 or 3. Overall I'm happy with the game myself, but it does have its issues. No game is truly perfect though. Playing multiple MMOs like I do sorta allows for a clearer picture. Some games simply do things better than others. Server limitations are holding this game back. If they could remedy that, a lot more could be done. In theory.

But that said, there's nothing wrong with XIV possibly copying other MMOs more. MMOs copy each other all the time. As far as this game goes, I like the combat and dungeons/raids. It all feels pretty engaging. I also like housing, despite how flawed it is. There's a lot to like about the game, but when you see other games of lesser quality doing certain things better, it makes one wonder.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Yes i think that is exactly what it is about with Square. They have standards and don't stoop to dirty tactics and things that other mmo's do to make that extra dollar. It's those standards that make me feel like a premium among people who play other mmo's because i chose Square Enix.

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The cash shop is a bit of a dirty tactic. They make people PAY for more storage space, on top of the million and one things otherwise. SE is a business first and foremost, and to say that they don't go out of their way to make that extra dollar is nonsense. They do so every month to the point it makes me sick. I can't really blame them however, it's a smart move. Plenty of people willing to pay. I like the company and their games, but your view of them is a bit...off.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The quality can vary, imo. Sometimes they hit it out of the park, otherwise it's strike 1, 2 or 3. Overall I'm happy with the game myself, but it does have its issues. No game is truly perfect though. Playing multiple MMOs like I do sorta allows for a clearer picture. Some games simply do things better than others. Server limitations are holding this game back. If they could remedy that, a lot more could be done. In theory.

But that said, there's nothing wrong with XIV possibly copying other MMOs more. MMOs copy each other all the time. As far as this game goes, I like the combat and dungeons/raids. It all feels pretty engaging. I also like housing, despite how flawed it is. There's a lot to like about the game, but when you see other games of lesser quality doing certain things better, it makes one wonder.



The cash shop is a bit of a dirty tactic. They make people PAY for more storage space, on top of the million and one things otherwise. SE is a business first and foremost, and to say that they don't go out of their way to make that extra dollar is nonsense. They do so every month to the point it makes me sick. I can't really blame them however, it's a smart move. Plenty of people willing to pay. I like the company and their games, but your view of them is a bit...off.

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Everyone has differing opinions and i am okay with that. All i know is that after playing another mmo i started to miss Final Fantasy 14 and realized how much i really loved it.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Everyone has differing opinions and i am okay with that. All i know is that after playing another mmo i started to miss Final Fantasy 14 and realized how much i really loved it.

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I wanted to chime in that, while I agree Tera is worse, it being worse does not absolve FF14 of its egregious issues. It doesn't deserve your praise all of a sudden because you experienced something worse.

The difference between you and I:

I WAS grateful. Not AM, but WAS. I've played dozens of MMOs and they all have good and bad features. The game is starting to get stale and will need to evolve sooner than later. They really need to fix bad systems, implement new well designed ones, and find a way to really crank out more mid-core content or some form of engaging repeatable battle content.

That's not even getting me started on some of the criminally used side systems that butcher the spirit of their source material. I know you think the cash shop is ok, but honestly it should have just stayed as character/account services and put the content in the game for people to acquire, by actually playing.

I also played the tech test and the 2 betas for tera and yes they had issues but the game runs much better now and i enjoy it.
Not many people knew or know but you can switch channels to less populated ones and sure runs better
I can honestly say there is things it does better then ffxiv, the combat to some degree i enjoy more and you get rewards just for playing.. what.
The rewards from a sub game like ffxiv do not seem as rewarding as Tera but with all of this said there is much enjoyment left in ffxiv for me.

If at all i think both developers can learn from each other and while it is so easy to complain (i know i rant about some stuff sometimes) people have absolutely no clue how much work is involved to make games. Graphically of course ffxiv is better and also runs better for us console folk but both games are fun. When i get burn out at least i now have another MMo to go to aside from Eso which i do not play anymore

Honestly you realize the value of something you have only when you lose them.
Never take anything for granted imho.

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Originally Posted by Maero

I also played the tech test and the 2 betas for tera and yes they had issues but the game runs much better now and i enjoy it.
Not many people knew or know but you can switch channels to less populated ones and sure runs better
I can honestly say there is things it does better then ffxiv, the combat to some degree i enjoy more and you get rewards just for playing.. what.
The rewards from a sub game like ffxiv do not seem as rewarding as Tera but with all of this said there is much enjoyment left in ffxiv for me.

If at all i think both developers can learn from each other and while it is so easy to complain (i know i rant about some stuff sometimes) people have absolutely no clue how much work is involved to make games. Graphically of course ffxiv is better and also runs better for us console folk but both games are fun. When i get burn out at least i now have another MMo to go to aside from Eso which i do not play anymore

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I don't particularly agree or disagree with the whole of your statement, although i will say this as my own opinion i hope square enix never learns anything from enmasse/bluehole, because that would push the two games closer together, and i would rather them stay as far apart as they could possibly be both style wise and performance wise. It's common knowledge you can change channels on tera, and while it does help it doesn't solve all of the issues even if you lower the lurid and graphics all the way, and the games optimization for both ps4 and pc is a huge issue even after all of these years. A simple google search will tell you that through countless peoples experiences with the game regardless of what machine they used to play it.I won't discredit tera as a game, i am only stating that from my experience there is a huge difference in the teams that optimize these 2 separate games and to me they seem worlds apart as far as competence and programming skill is concerned. Tera may be an okay style of game to some but for me it's not and i'm okay with that. This post was less about discrediting tera and more about showing my appreciation that final fantasy nailed it in terms of game style suited to my specific tastes.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The quality can vary, imo. Sometimes they hit it out of the park, otherwise it's strike 1, 2 or 3. Overall I'm happy with the game myself, but it does have its issues. No game is truly perfect though. Playing multiple MMOs like I do sorta allows for a clearer picture. Some games simply do things better than others. Server limitations are holding this game back. If they could remedy that, a lot more could be done. In theory.

But that said, there's nothing wrong with XIV possibly copying other MMOs more. MMOs copy each other all the time. As far as this game goes, I like the combat and dungeons/raids. It all feels pretty engaging. I also like housing, despite how flawed it is. There's a lot to like about the game, but when you see other games of lesser quality doing certain things better, it makes one wonder.



The cash shop is a bit of a dirty tactic. They make people PAY for more storage space, on top of the million and one things otherwise. SE is a business first and foremost, and to say that they don't go out of their way to make that extra dollar is nonsense. They do so every month to the point it makes me sick. I can't really blame them however, it's a smart move. Plenty of people willing to pay. I like the company and their games, but your view of them is a bit...off.

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I think this is just where me and you have differing opinions. Square enix doesnt sell pay to win items in their optional store and i think that is a huge difference from games that do. That is mainly what i meant about them not using dirty tactics. If you think that them selling glamour items is not okay then that's just a differing opinion. I will acknowledge that it is so they can make an extra dollar and they don't need to do it, but it is as you said. They are a business and a business is about profit. What i stated was more about the diference in levels of tactics between mog station and other games pay to win tactics.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

The quality can vary, imo. Sometimes they hit it out of the park, otherwise it's strike 1, 2 or 3. Overall I'm happy with the game myself, but it does have its issues. No game is truly perfect though. Playing multiple MMOs like I do sorta allows for a clearer picture. Some games simply do things better than others. Server limitations are holding this game back. If they could remedy that, a lot more could be done. In theory.

But that said, there's nothing wrong with XIV possibly copying other MMOs more. MMOs copy each other all the time. As far as this game goes, I like the combat and dungeons/raids. It all feels pretty engaging. I also like housing, despite how flawed it is. There's a lot to like about the game, but when you see other games of lesser quality doing certain things better, it makes one wonder.



The cash shop is a bit of a dirty tactic. They make people PAY for more storage space, on top of the million and one things otherwise. SE is a business first and foremost, and to say that they don't go out of their way to make that extra dollar is nonsense. They do so every month to the point it makes me sick. I can't really blame them however, it's a smart move. Plenty of people willing to pay. I like the company and their games, but your view of them is a bit...off.

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Exactly, if you want a game where the development tries something different, there is wow or ffxi.
FFXIV is just repeating the same thing it has done since 2.0. The only time they went to try do something different is diadem and PoTD

SE is not trying enough when it comes to QoL changes in regards of inventory, they just do the reverse, try to bloat your inventory to engorgement of buying more retainers. For the mog shop, again compare it to wow who is sub base, most things are account wide, not single character or .70 EUR dyes. I will agree to you though, it is smart, but not exactly fair for the consumer.


Let us not forget the EUR 13.50 maid outfits where a lot of EU countries got no promotion at all.
Just because SE is doing better then a Ptw model, does not mean they are invulnerable to criticism.
Mog station tactics and general customer service are big issues with SE, WoW is light years a head in these areas (and general game functionality, i/e player search interfaces and going into instanced content like eurkia)
(then releasing a content for 4.25 that was unfinished after major delays with trimming content that would normally be in the game if it was not for said place in question)

Sure you can find nice communities within FFXIV, but that is not SE's direct touch. I am still happily to play this game with my SO, but I am not blind to problems.

Plus i really do not know much of the game, but you got to consider age too, FFXIV 1.0 was not great either. You are comparing a new game to one in the 3rd expansion?

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I think this is just where me and you have differing opinions. Square enix doesnt sell pay to win items

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In a way retainers are a way to pay to win when it comes to owning the MB, the only reason this is not a big issue as it could be, is that progression is not locked behind it.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Exactly, if you want a game where the development tries something different, there is wow or ffxi.
FFXIV is just repeating the same thing it has done since 2.0. The only time they went to try do something different is diadem and PoTD

SE is not trying enough when it comes to QoL changes in regards of inventory, they just do the reverse, try to bloat your inventory to engorgement of buying more retainers. For the mog shop, again compare it to wow who is sub base, most things are account wide, not single character or .70 EUR dyes. I will agree to you though, it is smart, but not exactly fair for the consumer.


Let us not forget the EUR 13.50 maid outfits where a lot of EU countries got no promotion at all.
Just because SE is doing better then a Ptw model, does not mean they are invulnerable to criticism. Mog station tactics and general customer service are big issues with SE, WoW is light years a head in these areas (and general game functionality, i/e player search interfaces and going into instanced content like eurkia)
(then releasing a content for 4.25 that was unfinished after major delays with trimming content that would normally be in the game if it was not for said place in question)

Sure you can find nice communities within FFXIV, but that is not SE's direct touch. I am still happily to play this game with my SO, but I am not blind to problems.

Plus i really do not know much of the game, but you got to consider age too, FFXIV 1.0 was not great either. You are comparing a new game to one in the 3rd expansion?


In a way retainers are a way to pay to win when it comes to owning the MB, the only reason this is not a big issue as it could be, is that progression is not locked behind it.

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I'm not saying they are invulnerable to any criticism nor am i defending square enix. The whole point of this thread was to give my appreciation on what they have accomplished so far. I won't disagree with you that they could strive for even better greatness as a game. What i'm saying is not to defend square enix. I am simply voicing myself of my experience that it COULD be worse and that i am happy it's not. As for any current issues ffxiv itself has yes i'm sure they could do a better job and fix those. I myself have felt that way before, for example take the mass people dc'ing in eureka issue that was never attended to. To a lot of people who had that issue it WAS a big deal and we all felt it just got brushed aside for more minor things. But this is getting off track. Again this is neither to defend SE from actual constructive criticism or to claim that they are the best around. It is simply to offer my appreciation for the work they have done thus far to at the least make this game something i enjoyed in comparison to other games i have tried. It makes it feel like i will always have a base mmo/home to come to if i don't like anything else.

Why any threads that's not pessimistic about the direction of the game must be labeled as one defending the company in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Why any threads that's not pessimistic about the direction of the game must be labeled as one defending the company in the first place?

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I have no clue lol. I myself tend to lean more on the side of pessimism as i always want to see people and companies try to do a better job. You can probably tell that based on my forum post history. I think people seem to misinterpret the things i say and label me as one side or the other when in fact the way i view myself is more middle and non-bias. I try to speak up when i feel square enix did bad and i want to praise them when they do good. Honestly thats the simplicity of it. If people want to label me anything other than middle ground i guess they will just do it anyway. All i know is i'm always trying to be sincere and from the heart and i myself don't see any wrong in that.

Loved FFXIV in begining, mainly because what a did saw it could became.
I began with EQ, WoW, tried many others (mainly tera aion, i speak "long time" more than 3 poor month) then, FFXIV, and had stars in eyes.
Then the game didnt get really new things, Eureka is nothing new for example (bashing... 20 years old. fate, like when i did level my jobs before 2.1. and the elemental system is not so innovativ. boring thing, nothing to really do with)



On other side, i did test BnS, and had some charms, and played BDO, i log in this last some times again. Also came back to wow that did also tried new thigns (some things are bad, some are good, but at least... they try different things)

When i travel from game to game, i always see how much FFXIV would need to have real new things. More "POTD" things. not "things like POTD" (even if i want to see the next deep dongeon) but to create new things, rethink the game. The game need to vary, to evolve, not just grow...

But there, most thing i see "it could be worst" or "it is just a first try for eureka, it just need some improvment" . We speak about a game made by Square Enix. A Final Fantasy Game. not even a FF spin of, but a numbered one. The expectation are far more higher than some unfinished things like eureka anemos.

We speak about a game with 250-300 people in the team for it! not a kickstarter game with 40 people...


The more i watch elsewhere FFXIV, the more i see all matters with FFXIV.
Yes there is worst, but for a FFXIV i prefer see to the top games. . . I really dont care anything about "there is worst".

And... the cash shop shouldnt exist. Simply...

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There is kill stealing so you have to compete for everything in the game.

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Having played Warcraft with shared mob-tagging and then coming to Eureka where you don't get jack for credit unless you tag it--made me absolutely hate FFXIV and think that the game was terribly backwater and ghetto. God, does WoW do world quests so much better than Eureka is as content.

To be fair, when FFXIV launched it wasn't exactly the most playable game.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Yes i think that is exactly what it is about with Square. They have standards and don't stoop to dirty tactics and things that other mmo's do to make that extra dollar. It's those standards that make me feel like a premium among people who play other mmo's because i chose Square Enix.

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They're constantly introducing more and more mog station items and at high-rates. If they had stayed at a stable rate instead of jacking up emote prices from 2 bucks to 7 to 12 then eh. But I think that's dirty to push their limits like that. And hell, people have been saying that the fancy 12 dollar emote isn't even new. It's just the summoner LB3.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

To be fair, when FFXIV launched it wasn't exactly the most playable game.

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*remember the september 2013*
i dont see what you are speaking about :o

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Originally Posted by Remedi

Why any threads that's not pessimistic about the direction of the game must be labeled as one defending the company in the first place?

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The reception would probably be a little lighter if the main post was framed around the direction of the game. It's rubbing some people the wrong way because the praise is in comparison to a company that did worse. It's like one guy gave you some hot cocoa and put you to sleep with a weather report, another stole your wallet, then you thank the first one for not stealing your wallet. The cocoa was great and all, but he bought it with your money and you shouldn't be thanking him for not robbing you because that's kind of expected.

Not that it isn't still a nice gesture. I see where OP is coming from and I'm sure the devs will appreciate the kind words, but I see where the negative is coming from too.

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Originally Posted by Shihen

The reception would probably be a little lighter if the main post was framed around the direction of the game. It's rubbing some people the wrong way because the praise is in comparison to a company that did worse. It's like one guy gave you some hot cocoa and put you to sleep with a weather report, another stole your wallet, then you thank the first one for not stealing your wallet. The cocoa was great and all, but he bought it with your money and you shouldn't be thanking him for not robbing you because that's kind of expected.

Not that it isn't still a nice gesture. I see where OP is coming from and I'm sure the devs will appreciate the kind words, but I see where the negative is coming from too.

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Even the people who are rubbed the wrong way should have the common sense to realize the intention of my post was not to do that. If they are going to say something negative they were going to do it anyway it's just how the forum is these days. There's this side and that side and no one can ever see the middle ground. I myself feel i got my message across exactly how i wanted and if anyone has a problem with that then i say just let them act the way they do because its not going to change anything i posted because i am the only person who can edit what i say. My message stands even if people want to try to twist it into something offensive or negative. So i will just let them paint themselves in a bad light, no need to stoop to their level and join them. When i started making this post i already figured there would be people trying to twist things or argue and turn things negative instead of simply seeing it for what it is. My personal appreciation for something i like. If people think otherwise and are sincere and mature about it that is okay with me, but when people start to troll or act like a child that's the stuff i don't go near anymore because all it ends up as is a trade of constant argumentative replies that turns the thread into something dreary and stupid. So i myself will only reply to anyone who wants to be mature about things.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

My message stands even if people want to try to twist it into something offensive or negative. So i will just let them be and paint themselves in a bad light, no need to stoop to their level and join them.

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You clearly meant well, and I commend you for that, but I do think you need to have a bit more experience with MMOs in general before you begin making your comparisons. You basically made it sound like XIV was a god walking amongst mere mortals. It's not. It is imperfect like everything else, and therefore prone to criticism. Is it better than some? Yes. Is it THE best? Far from it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

You clearly meant well, and I commend you for that, but I do think you need to have a bit more experience with MMOs in general before you begin making your comparisons. You basically made it sound like XIV was a god walking amongst mere mortals. It's not. It is imperfect like everything else, and therefore prone to criticism. Is it better than some? Yes. Is it THE best? Far from it.

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I never said that it was a god among other mmo's don't forget this is all my personal experience. I don't speak for others, so take it as you do. To me personally i love the game. You may disagree and i never tried to invalidate your opinion. All i have ever done was state my own opinions and knowledge as i see it. I don't want to turn this thread into one of those threads where people just constantly argue. I want to state my appreciation for something i love and leave it at that. If other people want to do the same in this thread whether they agree or disagree with my views i still welcome them, so long as they are mature about it and do not act like a 2 year old or start harassing me or any others. Because if people want to act kiddish or harass me over simply stating my appreciation for something i like, well i don't even need to say anything in return because they have already painted themselves in a bad light at that point. As far as a rebuttal to your argument of whether it is the best or not i can not tell you that as it is dependent to each persons opinions. The only way you can argue if it is the best or not is by showing some form of statistics whether it be subscriptions or population or overall satisfaction of the entire player base. Although again i never said it was the best and i'm not going to argue about it simply because someone misinterpreted what i said. Everything i have said is my own personal opinion i never claimed anything to be official over all. So people can argue all they want, but all that is going to do is get them no where since all they are arguing with is a nonexistent figment they misinterpreted as some sort of one sided official statistic.

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Originally Posted by JackHatchet

Having played Warcraft with shared mob-tagging and then coming to Eureka where you don't get jack for credit unless you tag it--made me absolutely hate FFXIV and think that the game was terribly backwater and ghetto. God, does WoW do world quests so much better than Eureka is as content.

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It's not really tag based it's contribution based aka you need to do a certian amount of dmg to the enemy to get credit even if you have the tag

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I'm not saying they are invulnerable to any criticism nor am i defending square enix. The whole point of this thread was to give my appreciation on what they have accomplished so far. I won't disagree with you that they could strive for even better greatness as a game. What i'm saying is not to defend square enix. I am simply voicing myself of my experience that it COULD be worse and that i am happy it's not. As for any current issues ffxiv itself has yes i'm sure they could do a better job and fix those. I myself have felt that way before, for example take the mass people dc'ing in eureka issue that was never attended to. To a lot of people who had that issue it WAS a big deal and we all felt it just got brushed aside for more minor things. But this is getting off track. Again this is neither to defend SE from actual constructive criticism or to claim that they are the best around. It is simply to offer my appreciation for the work they have done thus far to at the least make this game something i enjoyed in comparison to other games i have tried. It makes it feel like i will always have a base mmo/home to come to if i don't like anything else.

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I understand you are saying it could be worse. What I am against is praising them just because there is worse out there. As Vahlnir is saying (and fulling agreeing with again) you are making it sound like it is some goteir placement when it is far from.

I pay money, that is my appreciation for their work. However I could play more if I wanted to, more mog station items, more retainers, what have you, but since I feel on the short end, they are not getting that extra they can be getting from me. How they feel about that is on them. If they want to give us the bare minimum they can give while overcharging in the mog station, that is what they get from my wallet as well.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I never said that it was a god among other mmo's.

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Note Vahnir said "sound" not that you said, I do agree with that, just the way you are talking, that is what it gets off. Basically (touching up a past idea in this post) You make it sound jsut because they are better then tera, they are the "god" where you found a new gratefulness for this game. Fine I guess but maybe try other MMOs that can run circles around both?

Sure it could be worse, I doubt I be playing at all if it was.

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I understand you are saying it could be worse. What I am against is praising them just because there is worse out there. As Vahlnir is saying (and fulling agreeing with again) you are making it sound like it is some goteir placement when it is far from.

I pay money, that is my appreciation for their work. However I could play more if I wanted to, more mog station items, more retainers, what have you, but since I feel on the short end, they are not getting that extra they can be getting from me. How they feel about that is on them. If they want to give us the bare minimum they can give while overcharging in the mog station, that is what they get from my wallet as well.


Note Vahnir said "sound" not that you said, I do agree with that, just the way you are talking, that is what it gets off. Basically (touching up a past idea in this post) You make it sound jsut because they are better then tera, they are the "god" where you found a new gratefulness for this game. Fine I guess but maybe try other MMOs that can run circles around both?

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How something sounds to you and how something sounds to me when i write it is two separate things. If you misinterpreted me just like another person here that is on you not me. As for your statement, i never disagreed with you in general so i don't really understand why your trying to conflict with me about anything if there's no disagreement on my part. I never said SE couldn't do better or that they were the best. Nowhere in my wording in this thread is anything like that. Besides all that whether i make it "sound" like they are a god or not doesn't even matter because its all just my own opinion. Arguing with my opinion is just about as productive as sitting on a couch and doing nothing all day. Instead of replying back at each other about every opinion we hate each other has wouldn't it be nicer if we could find middle ground and just keep things in a positive light, rather than paint things in a childish manner. I'm open to being friends with you and everyone else here, what i am not open to is finding enemies and harassing each other over pointless things. In a thread i created to simply show my "personal appreciation" as i never once stated i spoke for others.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

Instead of replying back at each other about every opinion we hate each other has wouldn't it be nicer if we could find middle ground and just keep things in a positive light, rather than paint things in a childish manner. I'm open to being friends with you and everyone else here, what i am not open to is finding enemies and harassing each other over pointless things.

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Everyone has the right to their own opinions. No one can tell them that it's right or wrong. This forum also provides an avenue where we can all get together and talk about the game. Whether we agree or not, it's entirely subjective based on one's personal experiences and tastes. That's fine, it truly is.

My sole intention is to make sure you have a bit more of an understanding. Opinions, like the game, are also subject to criticism, and there can be flaws. I only wished to address those flaws for your betterment. I'm not trying to make enemies, nor am I harassing anyone. I just want to point you in the right direction, that's all. Nothing more.

I love the game, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I'm not oblivious to its flaws, and can rightfully compare it to other MMOs because I've been around the block way more than once. Your positivity is welcome, regardless. I respect positivity around here, within reason. Your personal experience is yours, and yours alone. No one can take that away from you.

as i said earlier. The matter is not if there is worse. You can always find worse.
But even when WoW was the unbeatable, with this spike of 12m sub, we could find things better in other games. WoW was just "globally" the best. (not each part was best, but when they are combined it became the best)


There is always worse. yes. But does it matter? Because there is worse elsewhere we could be happy?
It seems like "the game get many flaws, too much probably, but hey. it could be even worse, so should be happy".
i prefer "The game is really good, so many wonderfull things, but hey... some other games are doing some part better, game need to improve"

You speak about Tera, many there know how much this game get some flaws, with a quite interesting basis. And i dont know if you are NA or Europe, but there, we have gameforge... it is a good reason to say "it smells bad" for those who knows what gameforge is...
And you say "Hey, finally, i did test this shitty game, we can be happy with FFXIV"
ok... but what about some things WoW, BnS, SWTOR, or GW2 (and so many others) can do better than FFXIV? Did you test more MMORPG than only tera? you know, there is worse than tera : Neverwinter Online (at least in my opinion).

And we speak about a Numbered Final Fantasy. You would say "hey, FFXV is not so good but, you know, this random J-RPG from unknown devs is worst" ? no... FF HAVE TO BE a "top game" it is the least this name deserve now.

FFXIV is a good game. When i came in 2013 i really hoped a better way, and even if now this game makes me angry, he stays a good one. Even if Yoshida avoid many question that need answers, the game is good. But, GW2 is a good game also. with good and bad part. And in some part it is really better than FFXIV.

Play more MMORPG, go try more and more MMORPG, FFXIV is casual² game. one of the most casual MMORPG i played (if not the most...) So you can easly have time to test others. Do it. And you can understand how much tera is really bad, how much FFXIV could be improved. And dont forget to consider one is sub MMORPG and most others are not (so... not same expectation)

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Everyone has the right to their own opinions. No one can tell them that it's right or wrong. This forum also provides an avenue where we can all get together and talk about the game. Whether we agree or not, it's entirely subjective based on one's personal experiences and tastes. That's fine, it truly is.

My sole intention is to make sure you have a bit more of an understanding. Opinions, like the game, are also subject to criticism, and there can be flaws. I only wished to address those flaws for your betterment. I'm not trying to make enemies, nor am I harassing anyone. I just want to point you in the right direction, that's all. Nothing more.

I love the game, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I'm not oblivious to its flaws, and can rightfully compare it to other MMOs because I've been around the block way more than once.

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That is completely okay with me, I only replied with counters simply to state my mind nothing more. Mostly anything i said was to correct peoples misinterpretations of what i was trying to get across with my wording. To be completely honest i actually have 0 disagreements with anyone in this thread so far. While our views might be slightly different so far everyone seems to be mature and that is what i was hoping to keep as this thread goes forward. I just didn't want to see what is supposed to be a simple appreciation thread turn into something negative just because some people out there never have anything nice to say or productive and mature to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

And dont forget to consider one is sub MMORPG and most others are not (so... not same expectation)

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I don't really think that just because one is sub and one isn't that you can argue that the expectations of tera should not be as high as a subbed mmo. Basically using that argument means your saying their success and how competent the dev team is should be dependent on the company's profits, In which case even if that were the right way to view it you would need some sort of statistics stating tera makes a lot less profit than square enix. While i'm sure square enix does make more i just don't feel like this is the right way to make your case. Regardless of profit a dev team should always try to satisfy it's customers. I don't think anyone in this world who pays hard earned money for a product wants to know that they worked less hard on said product simply because they are in game store based profit versus monthly payments. My view on tera is the same as some people is on final fantasy 14 in that there is no reason they cannot try to do better by their customers. As goes for all corporations out there. We as customers have a right to make sure we are getting our moneys worth, and its my PERSONAL OPINION that enmasse/bluehole failed to deliver on that.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Everyone has the right to their own opinions. No one can tell them that it's right or wrong. This forum also provides an avenue where we can all get together and talk about the game. Whether we agree or not, it's entirely subjective based on one's personal experiences and tastes. That's fine, it truly is.

My sole intention is to make sure you have a bit more of an understanding. Opinions, like the game, are also subject to criticism, and there can be flaws. I only wished to address those flaws for your betterment. I'm not trying to make enemies, nor am I harassing anyone. I just want to point you in the right direction, that's all. Nothing more.

I love the game, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But I'm not oblivious to its flaws, and can rightfully compare it to other MMOs because I've been around the block way more than once. Your positivity is welcome, regardless. I respect positivity around here, within reason. Your personal experience is yours, and yours alone. No one can take that away from you.

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same what i was doing

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

I don't really think that just because one is sub and one isn't that you can argue that the expectations of tera should not be as high as a subbed mmo. Basically using that argument means your saying their success and how competent the dev team is should be dependent on the company's profits, In which case even if that were the right way to view it you would need some sort of statistics stating tera makes a lot less profit than square enix.

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that is correct, f2p needs to be stop being ptw in general, and that is no excuse to have the game literally unplayable

that is another thing we can criticize SE for, they do not put enough money back in the game, it is pretty clear they don't from the results we see. So this will skew their profit margins larger then what it should be. (It is likely they would make more money if they put more money in the game, as that should logically attract more people to play and stay, not routinely sub and unsub.) This might sound confusing but note profit margins are different then how much total profit you get, given the right situations, you can have smaller profit margins compared to another situation, but more total money made. I feel it is from SE falling into the trap of Better benefit now, vs a better outcome in the future. (I/e relying on bandaid fixes without making a real fix)

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

I feel it is from SE falling into the trap of Better benefit now, vs a better outcome in the future. (I/e relying on bandaid fixes without making a real fix)

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Well, that's a tough decision to make. I directly support some critical large systems used by millions of people at a time- you can't just go in and make improvements when you think there's a good opportunity. Changes - even no-brainer upgrades! - must be carefully considered, thought out, and tested if possible. Any hiccup or (God forbid) failure impacts thousands of people at a minimum, causing all kinds of financial and reputational harm. I don't envy the people who have to sign off on improvements to these systems in the slightest (though I'm super grateful they sign off on the changes I initiate of course :P). I imagine that SE does the best they can with band-aid fixes and performs the major risky changes during expansion launches- that's a long time to go when there's a pain point that your customers harp on about, but the risk of fixing it could make the wait preferable. The extra testing time is invaluable, you don't risk destabilizing your current codebase unexpectedly, and you don't waste players' sub time by having frequent outages. /IT rant over

I love this game, no lie. And I complain because I see how things could be better. I want to be able to steal my friend away from WoW into XIV, I want my SO to play more often than major content drops, I want to keep having fun and enjoying my time in Eorzea. Lately I have become very worried that I won't be able to even justify my own sub because SE seems to be too cautious or unwilling to change. SB should have tried to do more than be ARR v3 in my opinion. I'm glad there are people like OP who love the game too and find no or few flaws. I was like that when I started the game... everything was new and wonderful. Now that I've been here for 4+ years I want to see the game work on being better. It will never be "perfect" but it can be closer to that ideal than it currently is.

I've played some truly bad MMOs, one of them just becuase it had the best character customization, but was for all intents and purposes dead and in maintenance mode, so I can see how good FFXIV is in comparison, even if its customization is bad in comparison everything else outweighs that.

I've been playing ff14 for 3 years now. I originally played dcuo (from beta) and it was so toxic and the customer service and gm help was so poor that 14 seems like a walk in the park by comparison. I see people in game complain about stuff that seems trivial by comparison to my experiences there and often think to myself 'you don't realise how good you have it here' quite often.

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Originally Posted by K1tt

I've been playing ff14 for 3 years now. I originally played dcuo (from beta) and it was so toxic and the customer service and gm help was so poor that 14 seems like a walk in the park by comparison. I see people in game complain about stuff that seems trivial by comparison to my experiences there and often think to myself 'you don't realise how good you have it here' quite often.

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Completely agreed there. I've seen what real dead games are and it gets much worse than DCUO.