AST needs an extra instant cast damage spell

In contrast to HW what they have basically done is:
-Removed Aero (18s) due to the purge of the cross class system
-Increased the duration of Combust to 30s from 18s
-Significantly increased the amount of ogcds
-Increased the mp cost of A.Benefic making it no longer as viable for double weaving or movement.

At the moment we only have one instant cast damage spell every 30s which makes the job very clunky to play due to the massive overload of ogcds AST has now.
Whm and Sch both have it a lot easier to get around their ogcds. Aero's duration is only 18s and it also has its initial 30 potency on hit. Not to mention Regen only costing 840 mp compared to AST's 1440. Sch has Ruin 2 and Miasma 2 giving it a really easy time.

I propose SE gives AST something like Ruin 2 (bring Stella back as an instant cast?) or a dot that has a weaker potency than your Malefic 3 to counter the majority of the clipping issue. Nothing job breaking but would make it more fun and engaging to play.

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Originally Posted by LinKreiss

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Give everyone else more insta-heals? There's balance for you.

make us choose between lord and lady of crowns.

Wasn't Stella removed because it was trash? During HW I don't think there was ever any reason to use Stella outside inflicting Heavy. I suppose if AST had it now, even at it's awful 100 potency, they could still use it for weaving? Still pretty weak and terrible.

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Originally Posted by LinKreiss

derp

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Asp benefit also heals regen doesn't.

How about letting us choose for Lord or lady bring back steal for a instant cast 140 potency

Isn't Stella just break?

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Isn't Stella just break?

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Yes but I meant that they could bring it back as an instant cast spell without the Heavy to weave ogcds with. It would be an easier thing to do since they have the spell animation and skill icon for it already.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Isn't Stella just break?

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Stella was, sadly, better than Break. That's how awful Break is. Stella was trash yet Break is worse.

Stella wasn't an instant cast originally, but if they changed it to not require a cast time it might be okay. Stella was originally 100 potency with a 40% Heavy. Break is literally half that at 50 potency and 20% Heavy.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Wasn't Stella removed because it was trash? During HW I don't think there was ever any reason to use Stella outside inflicting Heavy. I suppose if AST had it now, even at it's awful 100 potency, they could still use it for weaving? Still pretty weak and terrible.

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Stella was decent in PVP, I used it a ton. Sadly, with the new PVP changes there was no need for it to exist anymore, so it was removed. Beautiful animation gone to waste.

Tbh though I'd be fine with Combust II and Combust I being made separate again (maybe both instant-cast to deal with the clipping issue AST has with cards? idk, I'd rather cards just not be so animation-locky myself, so that you can fit the card draw AND use into a single oGCD). It seems like semantics but upkeeping two DoTs IS more interesting than upkeeping one long-ass one and spamming a filler in between. AST DPS is some of the most boring garbage on the planet, which sucks because you're forced into it so often due to encounter design.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Wasn't Stella removed because it was trash? During HW I don't think there was ever any reason to use Stella outside inflicting Heavy. I suppose if AST had it now, even at it's awful 100 potency, they could still use it for weaving? Still pretty weak and terrible.

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Hey VanilleFang,

Befor Patch 4.2 I had the same Idea with Stella as Instand cast. Like this :

https://image.prntscr.com/image/8wgn...ce5p4Pk1_w.png

On reddit an user wrote something about my idea:

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At.. 2.5 GCD, Malefic 3 is 220/2.5 = 88 potency/s, animation lock I think is around.. 0.75 (I believe latency might affect the total animation lock though, double weaving the draw + something else feels pretty bad)

If you just clip your dot and cut the Malefic, over the course of 2 mins (where you could end up weaving 13 times in full offense, partly due to Redraw, and 3 EDs used), ends up with only needing at least 102.5 potency (at 0ms delay, value only drops from there, down to 94.11 at 80ms) on Stella to make it worth it. (150 potency is around a 3% dps increase or so, 137 is a 2% increase or so, 170 potency is a 4.44% increase or so)

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From the user "AbyssArray"

Link: A small idea that would make playing AST a little more fluid.

So 100 DP is okay. If you want more to make it better than we can make it to 102,5 DP :P

I like to see that the Stella reborn wishes are there. I can understand Lin Kreiss. The Ast have much OGCDs and to less instands to compensate this card system.

And to Tanathya:

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Give everyone else more insta-heals? There's balance for you.

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In this case, nothing is wrong. If you ask why, I can explain it.^^

At Level 70 "Aspected Benefic" costs 1440 mana. If you compare this now with Helios, you will quickly notice that an instant spell costs exactly as much as an AoE heal.

You do not want to spam this heal, because you mess up your whole mana. SE made a great Job here, balance with Manacosts. -> Thanks to nocturnal shield Buff at the start from stormblood...
More shield = much more Manacosts :P
In the Time of HW "Aspected Benefic" cost 1/3 like it is now.

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

And to Tanathya:



In this case, nothing is wrong. If you ask why, I can explain it.^^

At Level 70 "Aspected Benefic" costs 1440 mana. If you compare this now with Helios, you will quickly notice that an instant spell costs exactly as much as an AoE heal.

You do not want to spam this heal, because you mess up your whole mana. SE made a great Job here, balance with Manacosts. -> Thanks to nocturnal shield Buff at the start from stormblood...
More shield = much more Manacosts :P
In the Time of HW "Aspected Benefic" cost 1/3 like it is now.

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It was rethorical.

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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Like AbyssArray explain it. It is not the goal to increase the dmg of the Astro. That happend if this "stella" would make more than 100 DP. The goal is to have a spell/heal that cost less and is instand.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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It's not about increasing damage (for me, at least) - it's about making the two oGCDs of "Draw" and "Spread/RR/Minor Arcana" a bit more fluid to use. Previously when ASTs could cross-class Aero you would typically Combust, Draw, Aero, do-whatever-with-your-Draw-result. Now, you Combust, Draw, do-whatever-with-your-card, Malefic III which has the "do whatever with your card" action clip with the GCD (Malefic III is ready to be used while you're still animation-locked fussing with cards).

Not only that, but on a personal level only having two damaging spells that we're using at any given time (only one if it's AOE!) is pretty dull and having an extra spell to weave in would break up the monotony. That's less a usability issue though and more a personal one.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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Would it buff the damage? In the right hands yes but the point here is to make it feel more fluid and enjoyable. It feels awful to me when I don't have my gcd rolling at all times no matter what job I play. Nerfing Malefic's or Combust's damage would work if the numbers started to look too high for the "buffer" class as you say.
Though I for one think AST could maybe even use a slight damage buff considering it's a lot more difficult to play optimally than take WHM for example but that's another topic entirely.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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We don't want more damage on AST.
We got the idea of "if you buff, you do less", that's not the prob.
We just want a smoother gameplay.
Too many oGCD to weave. A simple insta cast with a weak potency would just be enough. That's just a small QoL. We won't cry if they don't add it. But it they do, we'll definitly be really happy.
So we hope that request could be heard.

If they are afraid about adding another button, they could make Malefic III be a 2s cast instead of 2,5. That would still be a nice little change compare to now.

Wow a lot of feed back to my one comment. I'm curious though, and sorry if this sounds pleebish. But what exactly do tou mean by fluid? Now i know what you mean, but I'm a bit confused since every job I've played has felt fluid to me. Is it a PC thing? A keyboard vs controller thing? I'm just curious?

As a whm main player... I want to say get bent isnt it enough that once the raid gets put on farm that whm get's benched in favor of ast and sch? as an ast player on an alt... I agree they need something

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

AST DPS is some of the most boring garbage on the planet, which sucks because you're forced into it so often due to encounter design.

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I used to enjoy AST in Heavensward, but this is what severely hurt my interest come Stormblood. It's just so mindless even compared to White Mage, the often cited "dull" healer. I know the devs likely assumed you'll be preoccupied with cards, however it doesn't take that long to figure out what you want to do with them. Whenever I AST, I'm more or less begging to solo half the mechanics just so I can break up the monotony of Malefic III spam.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Not that I wouldn't welcome an instant spell, but doesn't adding in more attacks sorta undermine their job concept. They are supposed to be the buffers who strengthen their allies more than themselves. AST by default is supposed to have less attack power.

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You could legit half the potency of Malefic III to compensate and I wouldn't care. It may seem silly, but I simply want another button to press.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Wow a lot of feed back to my one comment. I'm curious though, and sorry if this sounds pleebish. But what exactly do tou mean by fluid? Now i know what you mean, but I'm a bit confused since every job I've played has felt fluid to me. Is it a PC thing? A keyboard vs controller thing? I'm just curious?

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Not a PC thing.
It's all about how the GCD and oGCD work.
When you use instant cast spell, you have to wait until it's ready again (2,5 max and less depending on your Sps/Sks) before using another GCD action. That's the perfect moment to "weave" oGCD, which as it says, have their own Cooldown and can be used in between those small times.
The more action you can do, the more efficient you will be. Trying to throw as much GCD action as possible, as well as oGCD is what makes the difference.
When you "clip" your GCD, you "loose" time. Your GCD is ready but is "frozen" by oGCD animations and so, it's delayed.
Ast has a lot of oGCD. Its entire Card system is. Anytime you to draw, redraw, Spread/MinorArcana/RoyalRoad, you'll loose so many seconds you could have used for the GCD.
That's why we talk about fluid gameplay.

Currently, what Ast has :

- Combust II (but every 30s).
- Aspected Benefic = The shield/regen, but can't be relied on because of the high mana cost.
-Lightspeed = Great for healing, less for dpsing, still need to press another oGCD to get profit of the instant cast.
- Swifcast = But every 60s and you might want to keep it for other usage.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Not a PC thing.
It's all about how the GCD and oGCD work.
When you use instant cast spell, you have to wait until it's ready again (2,5 max and less depending on your Sps/Sks) before using another GCD action. That's the perfect moment to "weave" oGCD, which as it says, have their own Cooldown and can be used in between those small times.

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This doesn't answer my, admittedly vague question, so much as reaffirms what you want the skills to do. I guess a better way to phrase it might be why doesn't it feel fluid to you when it does to me and I'm sure other people?

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Stella was decent in PVP, I used it a ton.

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I loved Stella in PvP. I would be on Discord with my teammates and I would be yelling STELLLAAAAAAAAAAAA

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I loved Stella in PvP. I would be on Discord with my teammates and I would be yelling STELLLAAAAAAAAAAAA

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https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4JCXoluYwHc/maxresdefault.jpg

Is this you?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

This doesn't answer my, admittedly vague question, so much as reaffirms what you want the skills to do. I guess a better way to phrase it might be why doesn't it feel fluid to you when it does to me and I'm sure other people?

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Mmmmm. It's a bit hard to describe. I've noticed it a lot more after only playing scholar for a while.
I think generally what people mean by AST not being really fluid is that it doesn't feel right when you have to hard cast Malefic III or whatever -> card stuff -> Malefic III. On Scholar using oGCDs just feels better/smoother/whatever you want to call it because you can Ruin II -> oGCD stuff -> Broil II. When you use oGCDs after hard casting something it just feels wonky and it feels a little like you've paused what you were doing to do something else (or maybe a bit like trying to slide something in a space it doesn't QUITE fit).

I mean, if you feel that it feels ok, then I guess it's more what you're used to whether you feel it's fluid or not =)

Sorry if this doesn't help. I don't think I'm very good at explaining things ^^;

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Originally Posted by Rinion

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No, I get it. It's like you have to stop walking before you start running, and vice versa. Honestly, I main SCH, and while I do play AST a good amount, I might not notice the subtlties of using certain skills in tandum, or I might use the skills in a different order making them feel more fluid to me. Plus I'm not "meta" so I'm not thinking maximization, so much as, enjoyment and survivability. But regardless of how I view it I hope things will feel better in the future.

And before anyone says anything, I have raided before, usually I sub, but I have done it. So it's not like I don't know most fights. This isn't directed at anyone in particular, I just know some people discount my thoughs if they don't view me as a raider.

It would be nice if Ast had an Automatic Draw Trait at higher levels. Maybe if you cast Malefic your next card is drawn simultaneously. You could attach the trait to every or any single target spell really but as long as you don't currently have a card it would be nice if they drew themselves. You really can't efficiently use two actions back to back if you have one full second to use two actions that require even brief consideration.

WHM doesn't have an instant cast.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

WHM doesn't have an instant cast.

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WHM doesn't have as many ogcds, and the ones they do have have bigger cooldowns. The primary need for AST to have an instant damage GCD is to make efficient use of their many ogcds, especially card management, without having to clip.

Also WHM's Aero, while mainly thought of as a dot, DOES do damage on hit, so it's a 50 potency damage instant GCD. So a person spamming Aero does add to their damage slightly even if the dot was already up.

Break needs to be instant Cast so AST can use it for weaving and since it applies heavy it would be useful for running from disgruntled mobs since you could cast it while running away. I really hope the entire AST kit gets a rework though because I just don't like the way they play. It feels way to similiar to the other healers in both stances. I love Scholar and White Mage but Astro feels like a cheap and boring imitation that's harder to play. I miss all the healing Abilities the other two have. I just feel like Im missing something important on Astro.