The situation with O7s parties is a complete joke at this point. Too many people joining in clear parties and not coming anywhere NEAR being able to complete it. Not even to third phase. And folks, virus IS NOT HARD AT ALL.
The other problem with these PFs is how the groups or the party leader are not allowing the team to have 1 or 2 practice runs before letting the group clear. From my experience in this game even if you are posting for a clear party that doesn't mean the team is going to clear the first time with a PERFECT run and on with the their day, people are going to make mistakes so giving 1 or 2 wipes is not that bad. Then if the group keeps wiping then reform. You do need to give some lee way or your just looking for a perfect storm that frankly your never going to find.
Guys the O7s groups are a complete joke all away around. It's atrocious.
The PF is absolutely pathetic (O7s)
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03-05-2018, 11:35 PMAncientCrystalThe PF is absolutely pathetic (O7s)
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03-06-2018, 12:08 AMBluexBird
There's not much that can be done. Most people are still learning the fight, and the ones who cleared it already, don't want to deal with doing it again. Yes, actual virus isn't hard, but sometimes people screw up passing it.
Having been in countless failed parties, I notice the problem isn't virus though. It's a couple of things:
1. Not spreading properly for Ink. This one kills people the most during the first phase.
2. Not realizing it's Biblios, and preparing for a knockback/ink/airforce instead. This is the most common reason parties wipe after virus.
3. Getting hit by rockets during the second Ultros.
4. Not running away properly when he flies up after Viral Weapon. People need to do Rabanastre more.
5. Not shielding the tank during tank buster, meaning there's a chance the boss will crit with his next attack and the tank will die. If you're a healer, please don't let this happen...
And then of course there's the issue of not doing enough damage. I go with the rule that if the boss isn't below 57% by the time virus starts casting, you probably aren't going to clear. ESPECIALLY if a DPS ends up dying later on.
Anyways, if you really want to clear, your best bet is Tuesday right after the reset, or Tuesday night. After that, your chances of clearing begin going downhill pretty fast. -
03-06-2018, 12:23 AMPenthea
I suggest you raid with a static team if you have issues with pugging savage. Savage isn't designed for pugs and in a pug environment you don't have much quality control over the players, so it's hardly surprising many problems happen.
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03-06-2018, 01:02 AMKyp
JP community raid finders this content, easily puggable
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03-06-2018, 01:14 AMDGladius
Any savage can be done with pugs, the issue is there aren't many good NA raiding players to pug with. O3S was a nightmare, I stopped caring after doing 100ish pulls with many different groups.
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03-06-2018, 01:24 AMKyp
your not wrong, the raid community has been very small since 3.0,
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03-06-2018, 03:36 AMMaero
Most so called "clear" parties are like this though i find. They mark clear or farm parties yet fail at 80%
Your best bet is to find a static -
03-06-2018, 03:38 AMMetalwrathSince 3.0 the amount of raiders has vastly increased.There's probably a lot more raid statics since there used to be too.They may not be of the same quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
You gotta remember that raiding has become a lot more casual than it used to be so you are bound to encounter a lot more bad apples than before in PF. -
03-06-2018, 04:01 AMAndevomAre you suggesting the NA/EU community actually use the Raid Finder?! Madness!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyp
(Seriously though, what's the harm at this point?) -
03-06-2018, 04:21 AMVidu
The complaint sounds as if at least half of it is directed towards party leaders being to quick to disband groups?
You do know that there is an easy fix for that, dont you? Become the partyleader yourself and be willing to give that lee way.
I understand the general sentiment of allowing for tow or three wipes, but I also know that - generally speaking - one pull can be enough to get an idea of wether or not that group is able to clear this content or not. Or rather: wether or not the majority of the group knows the majority of the fight or not. Since I'm not pugging Savage thanks to a casual static, let me give an example from Shinryu: I joined several "clear" or "kill for a friend"-groups and I'm really quick to leave them if people mess up tails. I had several healers who had no idea what they're supposed to do with that marker and sorry, thats not "clear"-quality.
For O7S I'd expect several early-fight-mechanics to be able to raise similar red flags - from orb placement on DPS, to not finding Biblio-spots, stacking for ink or taking Dadarumas beam into the party.
For Virus we're also having the additional problem of unfortunate serverticks - something that cant really be resolved by the group or their performance but is ratehr up to SE to fix. -
03-06-2018, 05:03 AMShihen
May need to be extra selective when choosing a party to join. Discord, reasonable ilvl requirements, and a description that sounds level-headed are usually indicators the party will have a decent shot. Even if a slot is open, if the party leader's attitude seems off I'll wait until something more solid comes along. e.g. '[Duty Completion] O7S clear. Be able to do all mechanics consistently. Discord required.' vs 'o7s clear, low dps = kick, KNOW HOW TO DO VIRUS'. Chances are neither party is going to oneshot it, but I imagine the first party will recover from the wipe better and go on to clear it later.
I always picture the latter party disbanding with a 'lol virus prog party' right before someone leaves. Doesn't seem worth the time or risk, though some of them probably do clear it. -
03-06-2018, 05:22 AMBluexBirdDon't stack on top of each other. Stand side by side. If you are right on top of each other, there's a chance of histeria triggering. So far I haven't had any problems ever since I started leaving a bit of space between the DPS beside me. After we get knocked back, they don't even need to be next to me anymore. I don't know why this happens, or why sometimes when we stack on the exact spot, it doesn't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vidu
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03-06-2018, 05:42 AMzuzu-bq
But you're on Gilgamesh. Tought that instantly gave you clears or something.
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03-06-2018, 06:32 AMRiyahArp
did you expect one of the three current hardest fights in this game to be easy or something?
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03-06-2018, 06:39 AMNhadalyActually yes, it is fairly easy, the mechanics are all pretty much straightforward if you read a guide and do them several times, its the dps check that often walls some people off.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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03-06-2018, 06:45 AMRiyahArp
I'd hate to see what anyone in this game would do if SE decided we needed actual hard content then.
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03-06-2018, 06:47 AMErryKThe fight is ridiculously easy, just Virus is the one mechanic that relies on ping so much, an almost abnormal amount that it's not adequate to be considered a mechanic in any fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
The other issue is people tend to tunnel vision a lot and forget to pay attention to what monster is due next in the fight. Like we were progressing and our tank called out Air Force, but it was Dadaluma, so we ended up wiping due to being pushed into the walls. -
03-06-2018, 06:50 AMRiyahArpCool. SE please make 07s harder. Everyone here says its too easy! Make it ultimate difficulty please, we have all these wonderful pros who are bored with the game, and after all savage is really an easy fight. I mean, it's not like it's actually hard or anything, and people are struggling because the average player isn't up to the difficulty, it's actually easy, and well people who can't do easy content as it is aren't going to improve, so why not make it harder so all these people here have an actual fun fight?Quote:
Originally Posted by ErryK
Or do people really not get who silly it sounds to say o7s is easy? Maybe its just it's hard enough that you can't rely on random people to do it effectively, and that's why you can't get it cleared; the people who tried and cleared o6s aren't up to the challenge. If you keep saying its easy, then you are painting yourselves into a corner, because apparently the playerbase can't handle what you think isn't hard at all. Maybe you are actually pretty good, instead of it being easy, and beating that content comes much easier to you than others in the same way world firsters can do things that seem too hard to others, but easy to them. -
03-06-2018, 06:53 AMalimdiaWhy are you reacting that way? lol No one is asking to make it harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Are you currently raiding? -
03-06-2018, 06:59 AMErryKCool. Stuff I already knew, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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03-06-2018, 06:59 AMRiyahArpThe OP is complaining about 07s PFwhich at this time, is one of the three hardest current fights in the game. Do you not think it's natural for unorganized randoms to struggle with one of the three hardest fights?Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
Apparently not, because people here are saying 07s is actually easy! I'm being absurd here, and saying oh well, if it's easy we ought to make it harder then, because you can't be satisfied with such an easy fight to you. I'm trying to point out that it's not an easy fight and its natural for most people in the PF to fail it, and odd that people are complaining about it. Did I make myself clearer?
edit: I'm not actually asking to make it harder, i'm sarcastically pointing out how dumb it is to call it easy, because its a hard fight. -
03-06-2018, 07:10 AMNhadalyNobody said to make the content harder, i actually enjoy the fights of this tier regardless of difficulty, i enjoy tackling the mechanics and trying to keep uptime at the same time, its a fun challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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03-06-2018, 07:16 AMBourne_EndeavorBecause she always acts this way. Even the slightest complaint and you'll be seeing silly absolutes and extreme ala "make it ultimate difficulty!" The record has broke into so many pieces you'd mistake them for dust.Quote:
Originally Posted by alimdia
If you actually read the OP's post instead of jumping to silly conclusions as always, you may have picked up they aren't complaining about the difficulty.. She is likely joining enrage/clear parties, which means people should have full knowledge on the entire fight and not wipe to mechanics they should be acutely aware of. Mistakes are bound to happen; we all make them regardless of our skill level. That being said, I can't fault people growing frustrated at others messing up Books or Ink five, six, seven times.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
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03-06-2018, 08:18 AMSciwolf
Random groups are bad?
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03-06-2018, 08:51 AMLunafreya
I cleared in a pug since my static doesnt mind and is hanging around post virus. It's an absolute matter of time and people all knowing the fight outright. I'd do 3 pulls and if you dont get past virus just find a new party. In my experience, the wipes all happen to people not pre positioning for Ultros loading ink, people seem to forget how ccw works on Biblio and most people die to last phase Ultros and chakras. I'm not saying it is an easy fight because it isn't. It has big damage and everything but you need to know EVERYTHING or you wipe. You wont be able to have more than 3 deaths if your dpsers have the damage. Make sure your healers are dpsing because that is very important. Virus itself is not hard but people need to not mess it up or it is a wipe.
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03-06-2018, 09:12 AMCrescents
...what do you expect? every tier it's been absolutely ridiculous trying to clear the third and fourth encounters even after the duty complete filter O3S had a ridiculous amount of wipes and worst yet people will drop from the party if first pull wipes at 1% in the oh-so-popular "I thought this was a clear party" line. It's not sigmascape specific and it wont be the last time, the truth is, if a encounter needs more coordination than the literal striking dummy O6S is, they want to be carried through it.
Either join a static or deal with it, because its not changing anytime soon. -
03-07-2018, 02:10 AMServerCollaps
make your own group and kick people that underperform (low dps, get hit by every missile, etc). I pugged o7s a few times already and it worked out (EU-Datacenter)
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03-07-2018, 02:50 AMSingularityWe had that before. People that had Echoed and overgeared their way through Coil waved their erm... egos around by fake-complaining that "raid content is too easy" and that SE should "give us a real challenge".Quote:
Originally Posted by RiyahArp
Well either through naivety or vindictiveness SE listened, and the result was Gordias. Statics breaking on the mini-boss before the first boss (and most of those that survived broke on Living Liquid instead). Raid community disintegrating. Mass migrations to the promised land of Gilgamesh, where all the players are 95th percentile and the clears flow like water.
In large part, the reason savage is the way it is now (since Creator) is because of what happened when SE made "a real challenge". -
03-07-2018, 07:19 AMJavey
Ah...so the pug raiding scene is still like...that.
I gave up on deltascape savage because of salt and one wipe rage quits. Idk why I was hoping it would be different this time. I guess because the fights seem more straightforward?
I wish I could read and type Japanese to see what they are doing differently that makes them have significantly more clears than NA and EU. -
03-07-2018, 09:43 AMAomine1992
This is quite common in the PUG raid scene you just take what you can get lol but I am sad for you because V7 is definitely a wall for people but even the bad ones make it past that Kefka is constantly showing me that
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03-07-2018, 09:47 AMBourne_EndeavorCan we please stop spewing this nonsense? The devs have outright acknowledged they didn't test Gordias properly, which contributed significantly to the sheer amount of issues it had with gear checks. Mass migration to Gilgamesh happened due to the lack of cross world PF, which meant your pool for new recruits was decidedly limited. It's no different to Balmung and roleplay. A larger community increases your odds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Singularity
Furthermore, the people whining how easy Coil were largely not raiders but people who looked at the World First parties clearing it fast and assumed it was super easy. Regardless, you can make a "real challenge" without going back to Gordias levels. -
03-07-2018, 04:19 PMSingularityWhile it's true that the separate-phase testing was an issue, the reason those checks were set so high in the first place was because SE wanted to make savage harder. They said as much themselves if you look at the developer statements from pre/early Heavensward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
It's more than that though. Due to the presence of the world first team (and other prominent raid groups), there was most definitely a perception that players on Gilgamesh were better on average than other servers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
Yes, but SE most likely aren't going to do that in savage. They made Creator easier as a band-aid after Gordias and Midas. They liked the higher clear rates so they decided to continue doing it that way. The challenge content niche is filled by ultimate now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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03-07-2018, 04:50 PMHyoMinPark
Savage is puggable; it can be done. But both Deltascape’s and Sigmascape’s “wall” in their tiers is the third floor: until people started overgearing, Hali was awful if you didn’t have a good group, and Guardian is the same. I’ve seen some really competent people in V7S groups, but there are also a lot of bad people in there who think they can just power through without doing the mechanics, and you just can’t do that when you have full 350 with no 360 or 370 pieces.
I would suggest trying to pug Savage much earlier during a reset week: Tuesdays and Wednesdays are usually when people are doing their weeklies, and when you can get decent parties more often than not.