If there is a job that can do anything

First of all, I am Japanese. For that reason, please forgive me that I am not good at English.
If there is a role to eliminate the concept of "role" and to be able to turn around to almighty, would you approve of having such a role? Is it the opposite?

If I say somewhat, it is the opposite.
Because I thought that gameplay named role playing would be diminished.

Gameplay without defined roles can be too boring, a good example of this is Guild Wars 2, although the game can be fun the lack of defined roles makes combat feel a bit... stale. I'm happy with how roles are defined in FFXIV.

That would just be giving people the Class of Onion Knight and having everyone do everything with one class. While it's one of my favorite looking classes from all the games (And he looks great in Dissidia), I think being able to have all jobs on one character is good enough. We don't need a class to end all classes.

I've had thoughts about something similar to this before. It was more along the lines of each Job having an alternate "role" or "style". This thought was unfinished, but I'll give an example: Perhaps through switching Weapon or Soulstone the Tank role DRK can become melee DPS. It's almost like the SCH/SMN situation, but not quite, it would focus on one "Job" having different "styles" as opposed to 2 different Jobs stemming from 1 Class.

And I believe the alternate styles of play should be unlocked at whatever the maximum level is at the time. Maybe to preserve the original intended way to play the role. Because thinking about it now, if this was something you could unlock ASAP with the Job then it might hurt the current system and queue times for certain roles. So if at any point this was to be unlocked, it would have to be at max level. I really would like Jobs to have alternate styles of play though.

We already have the job, it's called paladin. It's probably the only single job you could stack with 8 of them and do most content in the game. It's just most people don't play paladinss. You generally find a lot of reddit posts where 8 tanks do current content.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

We already have the job, it's called paladin. It's probably the only single job you could stack with 8 of them and do most content in the game. It's just most people don't play paladinss. You generally find a lot of reddit posts where 8 tanks do current content.

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Lol it's funny you say that. It was my first thought when I clicked this thread. "Is this thread about PLD?" :P

I personally prefer the idea of "specializations" over "roles", and tend to prefer softer or mixed specializations or benefits as fitting for the archetype of the job over those tools filling out a strict role.

Even here, now, roles are sort of a misnomer of course, and "specialization" a more apt term. Unless you're truly locked out from doing something, everyone is still responsible for everything; the one best suited to dealing with something has lead thereon, but it's not as if others are permanently free from those concerns nor is free to act without coordination with the players countering them.

I'd personally like to see a true hybrid job. In fact I'd like all jobs to be largely "hybrids", taken for their kit -- which can benefit whatever "role" in whatever portion they may -- rather than simply mildly varying burst curves and faintly different defensive CD rotations, or ability shields or HoTs in place of spammable shields, etc.

(I can translate this to Japanese if needed.)

Technically the warrior of light is just that. But no I wouldn't want a job like that since it's going to either be broken or under powered and I'd imagine it would be too much of a balancing nightmare for the devs to ever consider it

Every RPG need a Druid class. The only one that can be a werewolf tanker, elemental dps and a tribal healer.

Everyone who commented, Thank you for your cooperation.

Because there was a person who said "I want to make jobs that are not bound by roles" at my Japanese forum, I would like to ask how overseas players are thinking, with such thought Thread was created.

I certainly don't mind the "Mimic" class from FF6 back in the game although I don't see how they can make it happen.
Pick a subset of any skills acquired by any other job.

In this case, you can make it any role you want.

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Originally Posted by Heatmind

would you approve of having such a role?

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Absolutely! I prefer role'less game play, its more fun and interesting since it means I get to see what I can do and be put in situations where if I fail, I have only myself to blame for my own failures. Challenging and fair solo content since all classes have the means to beat it, more speedy party and raid finding without sitting around for hours hoping to find that one specific role, Imagine DPS players not having to sit around in a que for 30-60 minutes praying that tank or healer ques, more fun and engaging PVP, and so on. Role'less game play opens up new dev possibilities for content creation my experiences shown me. I gravitate more twords Blade and Soul and Tera Online because of this.

They could probably do that with blue mage, say... have it so that you had three sets of spells to switch between, one tank focus, one dps, one healer.. then you would just choose which to be before entering duty finder etc...

have the class quests happen in a way that gives you spells for each in the classic final fantasy way *by fighting monsters to absorb the monsters ability*

Or somesuch...

I prefer roleless jobs in solo games and RPG like Mass Effect or borderlands.

I dont like the Guildwars 2 type of gameplay where there are no roles. It doesnt bring any unique aspect to the game and generates a boring feel.

If FFXIV was to ever get rid of the trinity, then there would need to be a unique aspect to all jobs and the game would need a large overhaul. Take FFXV mulitplayer and slow it down for example.

I'm ok with 'Jack of all trades' type classes that can essentially do it all, so long as they are not over powered and don't specialize in anything. There are games out there that fit this kind of class perfectly. In FFXIV, I would say the tank jobs are capable of doing a little bit of everything. They have high HP, defense, ability to mitigate damage, self heal, and deal damage in an offensive stance. What I enjoy is that even though they do have all that, they won't get very far on their own in punishing content without a healer and DPS players sustain their health and damage to the opposition.

In short, I like the concept of roles, and it's a big reason why I play this game. If I wanted to play the 'I can do it all' type of class, I would rather just play a single player console game.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

In short, I like the concept of roles, and it's a big reason why I play this game. If I wanted to play the 'I can do it all' type of class, I would rather just play a single player console game.

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Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. As fun as it is to solo a lot of stuff on my tank jobs, each one of them has their own limits on that, and that just means I'm required to make friends, which is a good thing.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Pretty much my thoughts on the matter. As fun as it is to solo a lot of stuff on my tank jobs, each one of them has their own limits on that, and that just means I'm required to make friends, which is a good thing.

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But let's say you were only capable, by your largely your own choice from among those that make sense for your class, out of categories A-Z, of only A D E J R, while your party members may cover the gist of the remainder as necessary for a style of encounter and to synergize with their surrounding party members. Would that more myriad specialization be inherently be worse than the A-C of the trinity, around which any truly unique class factors are presented as second thoughts or, at best, least common multiples or modular efficiencies?

I like having noticeable specialization towards self-mitigating, cross-mitigating, undoing, or dealing damage, but just not to the point that they blanket the more unique identities of any given class or encourage players to tunnel-vision within their own "role" rather than work as a team, still aware and calculating for all necessary tasks or goals at once even if choosing one to focus upon.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Would that more myriad specialization be inherently be worse than the A-C of the trinity, around which any truly unique class factors are presented as second thoughts or, at best, least common multiples or modular efficiencies?

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I think it would be worse, and it's definitely important to find that balance between every job in a role looking alike and the class-based cluster#@$& that was FFXI.

Take the shapeshifter job in my forum sig (I know, shameless plug, but needed a crafted example). I knew every tank job in this game followed a template of what skills and abilities they learned at certain levels, and I mapped out that template to make that shapeshifter while trying to provide some sort of deviation through the wild card spots in the tank template to make the job unique. Whether such a concept could work or not is another story, but the skills and abilities listed in it follow the same leveling path as every other tank.

Trying to keep jobs simple yet diversified is tough task, and something I think devs have to grapple with everyday for both current and future jobs.

I would like to just chime in that I hate roleless multiplayer games. You feel less like you're working together and more so just working on the same thing and happen to be in the same room.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

I think it would be worse, and it's definitely important to find that balance between every job in a role looking alike and the class-based cluster#@$& that was FFXI.

Take the shapeshifter job in my forum sig (I know, shameless plug, but needed a crafted example). I knew every tank job in this game followed a template of what skills and abilities they learned at certain levels, and I mapped out that template to make that shapeshifter while trying to provide some sort of deviation through the wild card spots in the tank template to make the job unique. Whether such a concept could work or not is another story, but the skills and abilities listed in it follow the same leveling path as every other tank.

Trying to keep jobs simple yet diversified is tough task, and something I think devs have to grapple with everyday for both current and future jobs.

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Very true. I'd just wager that the present trajectory will likely fetter the game's potential designs in the long run, sacrificing job identity and the available variety of encounters if it continues as is. "Role" has had a bit too strong a grip on design, to the point that future jobs feel like they're likely just to feel like faint redistributions or outright carbon copies.

It feels like there are just too many unnecessary design constraints assumed necessary. A lot of them have since shed their weight in precedent, such as by classes/jobs no longer necessarily having an equal amount of skill keys or skills, but the way we acquire skills are unchanged, or the fact that skills are always given in an assigned order or solely through quests or levels. Take your Blue Mage ideas, for instance. You've clearly put effort into matching its previously unique form of skill acquisition into XIV's system by giving them a assigned order and timings, but why should that be necessary? It will almost certainly be a "hero class", one impossible to level without having first reached the level at which one starts its expansion on another class. It can afford inefficiencies or overefficiencies over particular levels. (And it's not as if the current classes aren't already imbalanced over various level spreads before reaching level cap.) Why should it be limited to only x abilities ever learnable, rather than x usable at a time from a more traditionally (i.e. larger) sized bank of abilities? Such would necessarily disallow a would-be hybrid from ever having a satisfyingly full and cohesive toolkit for any role or mix thereof, whatever it may be.

With how job balance is, I'm going to say no. Until SE can figure out what they're doing, I would never trust an Onion Knight to be remotely balanced in any content. And no, having them (or any class) balanced after six to nine months is not okay.

Cast off your soul stone.
Go 1.0 style all over again.

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Originally Posted by Heatmind

Everyone who commented, Thank you for your cooperation.

Because there was a person who said "I want to make jobs that are not bound by roles" at my Japanese forum, I would like to ask how overseas players are thinking, with such thought Thread was created.

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That is so nice of you to come over to ask us too! :D

Personally I like the system we have now where roles are defined.

I have tried other games where there was no tank/healer/dps trinity like guild wars 2 and I didn't like it since I enjoy healer roles and it basically didn't have a healer play style in a group setting.

Ever since I started playing MMO's I've liked being the healer role. So games that don't have roles I end up not liking them.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

I would like to just chime in that I hate roleless multiplayer games. You feel less like you're working together and more so just working on the same thing and happen to be in the same room.

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This is actually how I feel more often in MMOs with tight roles than ones without them, so long as the combat isn't overly lenient. When playing 4-man dungeons in Blade&Soul at or below the recommended gear levels, for instance, I'm dead unless I play my part, and the others play theirs. That requires me to be placing myself so that I can get my CC off on x target at a particular time, be distant enough but not too far to charge-stun y, AoE burn group z before they get their non-interruptable cast off, etc, and for any of that to happen, I need the path between cleared, things baited away from where we'll be AoEing, the cleaving mob drawn and kited, etc., etc., and at any decent difficulty those kinds of things can take a huge amount spontaneous assignment of tasks and nonvocal communication, the very things that make you feel like more than just yourself.

It's also exactly what strict roles remove, allowing you to play as if you were just striking a dummy that merely directed your movement here or there periodically; only the interaction between healers and tanks, or very rarely in timing raid debuffs or timing ones' skills down to those debuffs, remains interdependent from what could have been just about anything and everything.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Take your Blue Mage ideas, for instance. You've clearly put effort into matching its previously unique form of skill acquisition into XIV's system by giving them a assigned order and timings, but why should that be necessary?

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First off, thanks for reading it! As for the ordering of the skills there, that job concept was designed during HW, so it was designed to roughly match trends at that time and even had the same amount of skills as most (if not all) other jobs from HW as well. The goal of the concept was to show that a Blue Mage was doable in the game (at least at that time), but it would require following the same rules that were in place for every other job and every other melee DPS.

Now if I were to remake it with the new mechanics changes (like I was intentionally, but kept getting sidetracked), it would have a fancy blue gauge to work with and a few more spells to play around with, but it would still have to follow the same rules as every other job to keep it balanceable and manageable. Basically, it'd need to be the opposite of its XI incarnation in order to be sensible in XIV, and a lot of people don't like that.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Now if I were to remake it with the new mechanics changes (like I was intentionally, but kept getting sidetracked), it would have a fancy blue gauge to work with and a few more spells to play around with, but it would still have to follow the same rules as every other job to keep it balanceable and manageable. Basically, it'd need to be the opposite of its XI incarnation in order to be sensible in XIV, and a lot of people don't like that.

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Which I find understandable, even if largely irrelevant, since this isn't XI. Likewise, I have zero loyalty towards XI and am certainly not willing to break cohesion on a job for XIV in order to make it more like something from an entirely different game. That said, toolkits and the thematics they suggest can stand contrary to what XIV currently supports, at which point I'd favor that XIV itself change somewhat, through allowing for the job to remain cohesive with itself and all it could be, rather than the job end up feeling unfinished, lackluster, or contradictory through being pigeonholed into the existing system.

In my case, for instance, Blue Mage seems ripe fruit for new allowances, and while that might sometimes seems like I'm trying to force change upon the existing system (as if just for kicks) in suggesting such a different job concept be allowed for without being cut into a peg square enough for its hole, what I'm really intending is for all the various ways a job could exist to make more thematic, lore-appropriate, and player-visible sense by breaking off some of the guides pretending to be necessary rules.

Why can't we have mob-acquired abilities? Because it would be a system appropriate to or necessary for only one class? But there are multiple popular job concepts that would make use of it: Blue Mages and Beastmasters (or your Shapeshifter/Morpher) are just the tip of the iceberg, potentially. In turn that break from rigid guidelines to what is or is not permissible in ability acquisition, rather than targeting simply overall balance and a satisfying experience to each job in context, could add up vast new possibilities for post-cap or horizontally progressed abilities, whatever the developers are ambitious enough to include later.

And that's why I don't like placing so much effort on fitting things into the current system in my own ideas, and why so many of my own stuff ends up going unwritten here. It chops worlds of potential improvements and future-proofing for later ambitions down to add yet more precedent and suction to what's mundane, giving ever more excuse not to do anything truly new.

:: If interested, though, I can give you the rough notes on what I imagine would be a favorable compromise within a future expansion. Emphasis on rough, since, as I said, I like for things to be contextually vested. Blue Mage and the like are to me the perfect segway into new content and content types through new themes, mechanics, and modes, which taken altogether, can become the basis for a new expansion. Sadly no one part wholly works when on its own.

I would not like a job that doesn't have a role, because I like the design of having 3 roles in a party. However a job which can become all roles, one at a time, would be very fun. Summoner and Scholar are like this.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

And that's why I don't like placing so much effort on fitting things into the current system in my own ideas, and why so many of my own stuff ends up going unwritten here. It chops worlds of potential improvements and future-proofing for later ambitions down to add yet more precedent and suction to what's mundane, giving ever more excuse not to do anything truly new.

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Pretty sure that was why the combat revamp was a thing: to allow for future development. Additional resource systems like Chakra and the Oath gauge enable a foundation for more skills and abilities that can play off such systems, and newer skills like Foul and Total Eclipse fill in gaps where weak spots or down times were previously present. The problem is that major game-altering changes like these take AGES, and that's not a worry over change so much as just the general internal bureaucratic culture of a Japanese business. A good example of this is the "bowmage" joke that haunted every Bard player I knew during Heavensward, and required the combat revamp of Stormblood to be fixed.

There's still some mold-breaking stuff in the game though. It's just happening in baby steps, and some stuff that we might take for granted in other games like flying is pretty game-breaking when you think about it. Flying in Heavensward allowed us to move properly in a three-dimensional plane, with Diadem attempting to exploit that and failing for a handful of other reasons. What gave us flying allows for swimming, enabling a system in which we could better interact with objects in that third dimension. From swimming, we'll likely get blitzball as a testing ground for advanced actions in fully 3D environments, which would ultimately lead to aerial and aquatic combat, but we're still a long way off from all that because we're still going at baby steps.

The concepts I've made are usually set up with the idea that it could be done with the mechanical systems that are already in place, partially because it gives hope to players that want to see concepts like it happen and discuss how much they'd want to have different, but mostly because I'm no better than any other player when it comes to knowing what new job mechanics we'd get in the future. Just looking at what we have now, what's in demand, what statements Yoshi or the dev team have made on specific jobs, what areas could have ideas for new jobs and then making my guess with the rest of them, that's all I do. As nice as some of the sky-high conjecture is though, a lot of it is coming from players that are either saying something just because they want it or are just unaware of the snail pace that game development goes (and I know I'm not even that accurate on it).

I would be curious about what ideas you have, but I have a feeling it'd be more likely set for a distant future for the game.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

Pretty sure that was why the combat revamp was a thing: to allow for future development. Additional resource systems like Chakra and the Oath gauge enable a foundation for more skills and abilities that can play off such systems, and newer skills like Foul and Total Eclipse fill in gaps where weak spots or down times were previously present.

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I'm a little confused by this. The combat revamp added literally nothing in terms of mechanics or underlying code, unless you count Wrath in increments of 10 spent 50 at a time as inherently different from increments of 1 and spent 5 at a time. We had stance-dependent mechanics. We had job-unique resource generators and spenders. The real effect of the change was merely to siphon away already existent status effects from being visible from within a single place, shifting them into a shinier new UI. Worse, that came at the expense of intuitive UI design, seeing as it never allowed for the remaining buffs one would need to track to be visible from within that new UI. It seems, much like many of the less warranted job changes in Heavensward or Stormblood, as change for the sake of change, rather than actually finding a beneficial aim and fulfilling that goal (i.e. more intuitive buff tracking).

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The problem is that major game-altering changes like these take AGES, and that's not a worry over change so much as just the general internal bureaucratic culture of a Japanese business. A good example of this is the "bowmage" joke that haunted every Bard player I knew during Heavensward, and required the combat revamp of Stormblood to be fixed.

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This is precisely what I'm talking about. Just as the decision to release Deliverance, Fel Cleave, and Decimate each as separate skills/abilities rather than traits simply to fill out the "5 new skills!" reeked of sales attractions over intelligent design, so do did the new UI to me. Heck, even the "bowmage" seems more like at utter failure to test things -- or even reason them out well on paper -- than a split-second idea or something resistant to change due to internal bureaucracies; Bards really were complaining about their dealing top-line damage in high-movement fights only to plummet, relatively speaking, once others were again allowed their full uptime, and wanted either increased personal damage that would scale more as other jobs do or increased support functionality so that they could at least take better advantage of their team's opportunities in such a fight. While classically clunky even after 2 stages of patching, Wanderer's Minuet would have fit a requested direction to the job had Bard's damage outside the stance just been increased to the same extent as the other DPS's from levels 51 to 60.

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There's still some mold-breaking stuff in the game though. It's just happening in baby steps, and some stuff that we might take for granted in other games like flying is pretty game-breaking when you think about it. Flying in Heavensward allowed us to move properly in a three-dimensional plane, with Diadem attempting to exploit that and failing for a handful of other reasons. What gave us flying allows for swimming, enabling a system in which we could better interact with objects in that third dimension. From swimming, we'll likely get blitzball as a testing ground for advanced actions in fully 3D environments, which would ultimately lead to aerial and aquatic combat, but we're still a long way off from all that because we're still going at baby steps.

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Agreed. These steps are there, and they are vital. But it just seems hard to believe that they were ever planned ahead of time considering the lengths and overcomplications of their design. Flight is only as lackluster as is conventional for any MMO, but swimming? I can understand there not being enough content immediately imaginable to warrant its costs to have it implemented by vanilla release (as per all but a few third-person MMORPGs made in the last 20 years) and that only after two expansions did it really seem worthwhile. But as a separate zone to be loaded each time you surface or submerge, with no combat nor beneficial exploration outside of three short quests? If each was held off to give more "sky" or "sea" emphasis to Heavensward and Stormblood, respectively, shouldn't there be more, then, to flight and swimming? I certainly hope more is coming, but with the technical issues from mobs being able to make a last swat at you even when you're 20 meters off the ground to the strangely awkward physics of the water, always infinite breathe, and the lack of mobs or nodes, I'm seeing evidence only to the contrary, as it seems unlikely that what's in place can support it, and the devs seem generally unwilling to tear out existing systems for anything short of glamours or players reaching unintended areas (the whole reason we lost Shukuchi teleport and Elusive Jump and Repelling Shot actually working in three dimensions, likely to blame for some of the above-mentioned bugginess). I want Blitzball; I want aerial and aquatic combat; I just don't see how that could happen with what we've got.

It was originally deemed "impossible" for glamours to be loaded in PvP for whatever reason, to the point we were told outright in a Live Letter (I'll have to track down which exactly) than PvP glamours would never be available. It took 2 expansions for the glamour system not to shoot itself in the foot as an inventory burden, and even that solution ended up overcomplicated and similarly limited. It feels like they're taking every moment to think only of "what exactly do we need, right now?" with very little to their roadmap for what's ahead beyond a procedural schedule. "What would be cool?" "Got something?" "Okay. Let's spend a whole lot of hours thinking about everything but the system's own repercussions and needs." "And... let's get it in there." Obviously, more was done to try to make things work than I give credit for, but having seen similarly things be produced so commonly across other MMOs and seemingly with better designs both in long and short terms, it's hard to imagine it. I realize also that they've said they're moving away from that and further towards trying to create new things, and that encourages me, but it also worries me that so many projects seem likely to dead-end in less than an expansion's time (airships, submersibles) and/or see little integration (again, airships, submersibles as anything but a menu) or technical salvaging/reuse thereafter. Squadrons are about the only thing that gives me a distinct hope for progressive implementations of a concept across a common roadmap, even if I may personally dislike them.

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...but I have a feeling it'd be more likely set for a distant future for the game.

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The results wouldn't be possible until a distant future, but the precedents for it have to be set as soon as possible to ever get there. I'll edit some rough details in, via the hidden box, sometime tomorrow.

WoW has specialisation.

For example: Paladin
Retribution = DPS
Holy = Heal
Protection = Tank

Of course you can only have 1 class in there so if you take Paladin, you can only choose from those 3 specs. In this game you have multiple classes / jobs on 1 character so you can do everything with 1 toon instead of having to make a million of characters.

I read the comment of the person who responded.
As I said earlier, I am Japanese, so I'm not good at English.
However, I realized that everyone has various ideas.

I am sorry for bad english, but I thank you for commenting.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Gameplay without defined roles can be too boring, a good example of this is Guild Wars 2, although the game can be fun the lack of defined roles makes combat feel a bit... stale. I'm happy with how roles are defined in FFXIV.

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This is exactly the reason I quit GW2. When I participated in combat, I felt like it didn't matter whether I was there or not. I didn't fill an important role, I was just... there.

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Originally Posted by Nerfworthy

This is exactly the reason I quit GW2. When I participated in combat, I felt like it didn't matter whether I was there or not. I didn't fill an important role, I was just... there.

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I, too, fell out of GW2 for the same reason, yet I suspect we attribute the reasons for why our parts in any given group felt unimpactful very differently.

As far as I can tell, that lack of impact wasn't necessarily due to the depth or division of roles into basic types. Consider Call of Duty, for instance, vs. something like (pro matches of) CS:GO, Rainbow Six: Siege, or any other one-life-per-round competitive shooter.

The first, until middle-high levels of play with enemies not too far beneath your mechanical skills, can feel utterly independent even in a team-based match and despite having varied ranges or loadouts from which to create specializations. (Granted, at higher levels of play you tend to be hyper-aware of the fields of view, ranges, and loadouts of your teammates while advancing and readily expect the usage of certain toolkit parts if you ever play a few matches in a row with the same people and/or at low enough a maximum player count to get a feel for it all quickly enough.)

The latter set may eventually have you working solo from a particular flank for a time, but rely heavily on the surrounding team. They've the same extent of customization, but because the situation has been made more punishing, they feel vastly different.

To me, GW2 feels sloppy and its participation largely invisible simply because it is in most cases too lenient or lacking in clear and impactful short-term goals.

Consider also, if a wiping-power mob has to die within an amount of time that requires the entire group to be dealing damage to their theoretical near-fullest, with not a man or second to spare, even if you're doing nothing unique per se, your presence and (more importantly) your attention still accomplishes something new that could not be accomplished without you: survival. There's nothing inherently special about what you'd be doing there, and yet the group lives or dies through your efforts. Your performance makes all the difference in the world. The problems occur when the range in player skill (such as due to poor difficult curves, support systems, or rewards for self-challenge) demand the bar be lowered to where more and more players are no longer necessary to meet the given goal. Those events stop having a clear performance indicator; there's no real or obvious feedback, nothing to spur engagement or intensity thereof.

But take "goal-setting" through trinity systems. Most of those goals can be met through the basest engagement and simply bringing enough of each base type. It becomes challenge more and more through simply meeting an unvaried checklist, and in the end healers typically feel their interactions just with their cohealer, at best with their tanks, tanks with their cotank, and DPS with their raid (de)buffs, each a smaller set of means of engagement than any and all having to mitigate, prevent through suppression or CC, fully avoid, bait out, embonus, deal, and reverse damage as per a role-less or open system.

:: I actually consider GW2 as somewhat having roles, or at least not as generalized in that very few jobs, as in XIV, are capable of everything. The vast majority of GW2 classes prior to PoF, or even now really, here would be defined simply and solely as DPS. There are a few hybrid healers, and there are a few pseudo-tanks. But the game itself provides little opportunity for visibly impactful coordination in the majority of content short of its most serious levels of play.

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Originally Posted by Heatmind

First of all, I am Japanese. For that reason, please forgive me that I am not good at English.
If there is a role to eliminate the concept of "role" and to be able to turn around to almighty, would you approve of having such a role? Is it the opposite?

If I say somewhat, it is the opposite.
Because I thought that gameplay named role playing would be diminished.

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Final Fantasy 11 would fit this description more. In FF11 you have sub jobs that can change the main job's role.
In Final Fantasy 14 they have limited that and instead gone with a more ridged system with a 3 role design.

Over time is has just become more ridged.

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Originally Posted by RiyahArp

We already have the job, it's called paladin. It's probably the only single job you could stack with 8 of them and do most content in the game. It's just most people don't play paladinss. You generally find a lot of reddit posts where 8 tanks do current content.

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Yeah we recently ran ran Rabanestre with 24 tank alliance.It actually went better than most normal runs of it ironically.No wipe on hashmal etc.
One of the players in the group made a recording of it.https://www.twitch.tv/videos/228042467
I think without pld heals we wouldnt have been able to clear it so easy though.

If you mean like ACN becoming AST/SCH, I'm fine with that.
If you mean something like RDM can be in any role, but still function as every role mid fight, then no. (Unless the gameplay was about everyone in the party swapping roles mid fight.)

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Originally Posted by Bobs

Final Fantasy 11 would fit this description more. In FF11 you have sub jobs that can change the main job's role.
In Final Fantasy 14 they have limited that and instead gone with a more ridged system with a 3 role design.

Over time is has just become more ridged.

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I have never played FF 11, so I do not know the details, but it was that kind of system.