Loot drops in 24 mans

I like the 24 man's, but trying to get a specific piece of gear can be insanely frustrating sometimes. If there was a weekly token system that reset every week, something like 10 runs or so, that let you pick a piece of gear, that would make it feel a bit less futile. When your looking at fifteen runs and no drop, it starts to get ridiculous.

The thing I like for them to do is to make a system so that 2 of the same item will NEVER appear in a chest.

I mean, there are runs when I see 2 of the same casting belts in a chest.

its only going to get worse the more jobs that are added. 2 of same belt dropping could be beneficial for players in certain situations, but not realisitic mayhaps.

At least the 24 mans drop two pieces per chest at this point. World of Darkness has some nice stuff, but one piece per chest.

Not that that actually matters when I ran Weeping City seventeen times for the scouting set.

5 drops per chest - i still didn't get what i wanted! booooo i run this like 50 times so far

Good luck. I don't run raids anymore. Got tired never winning any items and only items did ever get is what ones all passed on. should be instead of dropping boxes at the end gives each player a random gear piece for there class to make it fair.

The weekly lockout is annoying. I think you get to "need" one piece of gear a week and than "Greed" is fair game. Watching armor just get dropped is silly.

and then everyone got everything they wanted and never played the game again until next patch.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

and then everyone got everything they wanted and never played the game again until next patch.

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That already happens. Once you play the ilvl game long enough you begin to see it is just an artificial gate to continue playing and thus pointless. But in that same vein you have people who will be fully decked out and 24 mans are really just catch up gear to be replaced by the next best set. For me Rabanastre I will still only run once a week even once the lockout is eliminated. The only time I really cared was during LotA and that was because I didn't know any better. If anything the only thing it serves a purpose for is glamour and why should that be so hard to obtain?

There are lots of reasons to still play and artificial gates aren't them.

I was once religious in doing the weekly runs, but not now. I have learned it's just a trap to keep you running 1000's of runs to never get that last piece for a set. I just do not worry any more about doing them, soon a new dungeon will appear with a new set of ilvl gear with it, and then your back to to the same old game. It's just the same Merry-go-round and after years and multiply times - it has gotten old - real old!

truly - glamour is the end game

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

truly - glamour is the end game

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If you're into that kind of thing.

I dont see the big deal.Its not like your rolling against 23 other players for a piece of gear.Its no different than rolling on a weapon after killing an extreme primal.
Granted there is the token system now for extreme trials but there wasnt until Heavensward.

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Originally Posted by WlyemR

I like the 24 man's, but trying to get a specific piece of gear can be insanely frustrating sometimes. If there was a weekly token system that reset every week, something like 10 runs or so, that let you pick a piece of gear, that would make it feel a bit less futile. When your looking at fifteen runs and no drop, it starts to get ridiculous.

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So your upset for having bad luck with RNG -.-... we all go trough it...best advice go the job you want and don't think about it.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

RNG

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RNG is the biggest artificial gate to be implemented. RNG is just a poor mans attempt at making something exciting. Yes we all have bad luck but there are other ways to go about it and a token system that they proposed isn't that broken in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

RNG is the biggest artificial gate to be implemented. RNG is just a poor mans attempt at making something exciting. Yes we all have bad luck but there are other ways to go about it and a token system that they proposed isn't that broken in comparison.

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Then you must really salty I really have had no issue with it and usually get what I'm looking for without trying.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Then you must really salty I really have had no issue with it and usually get what I'm looking for without trying.

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I honestly don't look for gear. I don't do glamour or even BiS. All I do is PvP and I have perma glamour for that set. It is honestly just silly and as nothing to do with being salty. They provided a token system for ex mounts what is the problem with doing it for gear.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I honestly don't look for gear. I don't do glamour or even BiS. All I do is PvP and I have perma glamour for that set. It is honestly just silly and as nothing to do with being salty. They provided a token system for ex mounts what is the problem with doing it for gear.

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Not really looking for gear but complaining for gear -.-; lets give people a trophy for trying shall we ?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Not really looking for gear but complaining for gear -.-; lets give people a trophy for trying shall we ?

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It's not really a complaint. I was just agreeing with the OP. I am happy that you love RNG.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Not really looking for gear but complaining for gear -.-; lets give people a trophy for trying shall we ?

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Well there are tokens for Extremes and Savage content, why not for 24 man ? So that you just do 1 run per week and don't have to be bothered doing 30 or 40 runs to get what you want if all you want is a specific piece (mostly to stuff second jobs btw, sorry but not spending more than one hour per week in 24 man just for seconds).

Some say people will only go once a week then : well sure, but it's already what some do and if they don't loot anything they're still not going back before next reset. The carrot isn't working anymore.

Trying to force people to do a precise content (they don't want to do because grew bored of it) because of RNG is old fashioned and I don't walk into that manipulation anymore, and many long time players are starting to avoid that as well. So, might as well put tokens to still have something after 10 runs, so that you still guarantee at least 10 runs will be done by people who want something.

When you know the goal it's easier to motivate people to go into those instances. When you think "heeeeh there's a tiny little chance what I want drops, but it'll most likely get looted by the lol guy of the team, and I might have to spend an hour pulling out my hair on fights people mess up somehow" , well that doesn't help wanting to go in it.

24 man is a lot easier than extreme's and Savage.
it harder the content the better the reward should be.
For 24 man raids require very little skill and other alliances can carry you.It shouldnt stay like it is.The drop rate is fair and rare should be rare for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Karshan

Well there are tokens for Extremes and Savage content, why not for 24 man ? So that you just do 1 run per week and don't have to be bothered doing 30 or 40 runs to get what you want if all you want is a specific piece (mostly to stuff second jobs btw, sorry but not spending more than one hour per week in 24 man just for seconds).

Some say people will only go once a week then : well sure, but it's already what some do and if they don't loot anything they're still not going back before next reset. The carrot isn't working anymore.


Trying to force people to do a precise content (they don't want to do because grew bored of it) because of RNG is old fashioned and I don't walk into that manipulation anymore, and many long time players are starting to avoid that as well. So, might as well put tokens to still have something after 10 runs, so that you still guarantee at least 10 runs will be done by people who want something.

When you know the goal it's easier to motivate people to go into those instances. When you think "heeeeh there's a tiny little chance what I want drops, but it'll most likely get looted by the lol guy of the team, and I might have to spend an hour pulling out my hair on fights people mess up somehow" , well that doesn't help wanting to go in it.

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While it may be true it motivates you would think that it would help out the queue. For example light grinning for relics, some raids are done for that just because there are hardly any Alex runs now. Rule is once you find what you need you don't really care unless is daily roulette. Why do you think the tokens for extreme runs are 99 for mounts? to force people to do it. Yes it would be nice, however if people really got it right away it would affect queue. There are some of us who really don't need the gear and just lot it to de-synth or for company seals. Then people bitch and complain " Hey your high level why are you needing it?" Same principle I would have to say it may seem sad that people have bad luck, yet I've yet to see one person asking for anything. If people communicate it would not be that hard to get stuff to begin with. If I really need something I ask and really don't have a hard time getting it. Now I can understand the whole token perspective in raids such as savage, however for normal content not really. -.- It's like asking for a trophy just for trying.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

It's like asking for a trophy just for trying.

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Your logic is falling apart. I don't see how you love RNG so much as it is a completely antiquated system. Which is also why they are eliminating it with relics and slowly phasing it out of the jobs. Lets take ATMA, Yokai, or Crystals for example. If you told me it was going to take 100 fates to get a token. That is something that is easily obtainable and perceivable. But then lets add RNG on top of that. You form a party to go do it. Half the party gets in in 15 fates, another gets it in 50, and the 2nd and 3rd to last get in 75. The person who is left doesn't get it for 125 fates. Of course they had RNG Bad Luck but it is also demoralizing to that person. It is a lot more tangible to have a set amount guarantee, even if it is 100 xyz runs. People don't want to run content and gamble whether or not they are going to get the item they are looking for. People avoided relics just for that sheer purpose and would rather save up 3 weeks worth of tomes plus 7 weeks worth of raids just to avoid the RNG aspect.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Your logic is falling apart..

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We are talking about raids vs item drops in fates. In terms of raids it's competition for drops against other players. RNG for items drop is something that has been nerfed sooo much do to people complaining it's too hard and hate the grind which I can understand SE has made it it's mission to avoid as much as possible. Unlike FFXI ( where you can actually consider it a grind ) Drop items from fates has really no comparison to actual bidding for items in Raids. Lets talk relics ok, MY example was based on people participating. My goal is to get all relics done, ( currently needing 5 more animas ) If no Alex parties Raids are the next best thing. About 2-3 raids will do one rune. The more things are done the less people are available for raid runs. Now on savage ones, example Deltascape you get books ( tokens ) to exchange for gear. Which makes sense being you need competent players working together. Unlike random groups which most of the time fail.

So lets do a quick breakdown;

Dungeons people complained it was not fair so they implanted getting a piece of equipment based on their job. People bitched about not being fair because high level players would not greed.

Mount tokens were implemented on some extreme version why? people bitched and complain also.

Normal raids Not surprising that people can't handle simple mechanics even after people do friendly reminders. So no adding tokens to that would just allow people to get a trophy for just trying. Now if they did an evaluation system based on performance and got a piece based of their job that would be understandable being most of the time 2 groups usually carry some.

But to get a token just for trying....sure lets give the cupcake / snowflake generation something for just trying.

in conclusion there is a difference in fate grinding / dungeon / raids. Stop avoiding the main point, should people get a choice of gear just for trying? Sure why not people need to feel special in their own way. While we are at it everyone gets a completed relic of their choice shall we? I mean it's not fair people grind for relics and newbies can't share the feeling...( sarcasm)

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

But to get a token just for trying....sure lets give the cupcake / snowflake generation something for just trying.

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You keep thinking RNG gets you something GREAT!. I did all the grinds I stated so I know first hand but I also know people who just flat out gave up. The reason why the relate is it clearly shows how Demotivating and antiquated RNG is. 24 mans it's not even really a competition. People are literally running it for glamour or to gear up a 2nd job or their 9th job. They have already participated and won. There is no "Trophy" as you keep calling it. It is purely just busy work. There is no other definition.

I farmed my relics with the original drop rates, I did Yokai, I did all of these and I take it you did as well. But the difference between us is you have a wall up that there may be a better system.

I could care less personally if they don't eliminate RNG because the gear/glamour means nothing to me. But what does matter is watching friends, FC mates, LS mates, and other players quit playing a game due to an antiquated system.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

I could care less personally if they don't eliminate RNG because the gear/glamour means nothing to me. But what does matter is watching friends, FC mates, LS mates, and other players quit playing a game due to an antiquated system.

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Your missing the point, I don't praise the RNG number, what I am saying that there is a certain place for token based items and currently it looks well balanced. They can compensate also by maybe crafting. ( Perish the thought they don't like to craft it would actually take time and effort) If your watching your acquaintances drop the game for just not getting things when they want them and not putting the effort in it does not sound like a problem. Sounds like pity. Sure SE could make it easier and please all those people and make it easier for them, or they could monopolize and sell tokens to trade at trough cash shop. I mean they could cheat with cash shop, so far jump potions help people catch up, however does not remove the fact that experience which is normally acquired is dismissed. That is the whole point yes it sucks to see people despair, but that is life. Kind of making LIMITED Edition things available. It's a slap in the face for those actually put the effort or time to accomplish things.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Kind of making LIMITED Edition things available. It's a slap in the face for those actually put the effort or time to accomplish things.

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I am not missing the point. You are making it sound like getting a set from a 24 man is an accomplishment. It is really just luck, that is it. People with tank Mounts, had the fishing title in ARR, etc those are all accomplishments. Clearing Savage and Ultimate having BiS is an accomplishment. Doing a 24 man and hoping your item drops is not an accomplishment. RNGesus was on your side and that is it. YAY RNGesus praised me today. If you can't see how idiotic that is for 24 man content than well I feel sorry for you. I can guarantee you people clearing ultimate and savage are spending way more time than the people trying to get xyz item from a 24 man.

No one is going to look at someone in a set from 24 man and go "Congratulations! I have been trying to do that for so long".

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

. If you can't see how idiotic that is for 24 man content than well I feel sorry for you. I can guarantee you people clearing ultimate and savage are spending way more time than the people trying to get xyz item from a 24 man.

No one is going to look at someone in a set from 24 man and go "Congratulations! I have been trying to do that for so long".

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The only idiotic thing that I have seen so for in 24 man raids recently is the fact that people still can't follow simple mechanics and still wipe on old content. If it's not such a big a deal why not go do savage for better gear or tomes? Then they can really have a reason to rage quit. It does not take a genius to follow simple mechanics or to take advice. If people can't move on or use better gear then apparently they only want it for glamour and it really should not matter. Perhaps asking the party if they can have it?

IF asking is still too much allow me to play the worlds smallest violin.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Perhaps asking the party if they can have it?

IF asking is still too much allow me to play the worlds smallest violin.

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If you read the OP it isn't a lot issue it is a drop issue. That means two layers of RNG to get the item. First layer is getting the item to drop initially which is what the OP was complaining about if you took the time to read. Next is a lot issue which no one is debating or even discussing. So you can take your smallest violin if you can read because obviously you haven't.

Also, you are comparing savage content vs casual content. Everything that is considered "End Game" has a token system why doesn't casual content.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

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Also, you are comparing savage content vs casual content. Everything that is considered "End Game" has a token system why doesn't casual content.

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Because Savage is harder to do, guess what they need to learn mechanics, and people deserve to be rewarded. Unlike normal content that has been nerfed so much that people still complain and still fail.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Because Savage is harder to do, guess what they need to learn mechanics, and people deserve to be rewarded. Unlike normal content that has been nerfed so much that people still complain and still fail.

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That doesn't really justify why leave it up to RNG. You could just quadruple, quintuple, etc. You could also make it cost 15, 20, 25 of the current Coins that you get and that person would have to choose between upgrade items or the item they are seeking. Even if it did take 10 coins they would have enough tomes to buy the gear and thus eliminate the 'need' of having the item as you can buy the entire tome left side minus weapon in 8 weeks. Again the gear isn't even really bragging right worthy like the savage gear set is. Also if you set it at 15 weeks they would almost be entirely decked out in 340 gear minus the weapon.