Fending Accessories Strength Gain

4.2 is next month, which means new crafted accessories and once again tanks will need to pentameld to reach BiS. Please scale the strength stat on Fending accessories so that tanks are not forced to pentameld their gear.

i would also prefer that the STR stat is capped on the accessories, so we actually have a choice with materia melding.

While we're at it let's give all accessories capped strength so staves and pickaxes and frying pans all hurt enemies a lot too to close the gap on DPS even more.

There is a easier way to do it....please change tank icon in to red icon.....

At the least, Strength should be capped without needing materia. This at least removes a major part of the inequity between crafting and raid drops.

Capping str Will only let us have Direct hit as the only choice for melding

If they capped STR, our dps would go up by a ridiculous amount(over 500). Super Unbalanced. I just wish STR would raise by 5(ish) per 10 ilvls instead of 1.

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Originally Posted by RLofOBFL

If they capped STR, our dps would go up by a ridiculous amount(over 500). Super Unbalanced. I just wish STR would raise by 5(ish) per 10 ilvls instead of 1.

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The STR cap on Fending accessories at a given iLevel is not necessarily the same as the STR cap on Slaying accessories at the same iLevel. The STR cap on i350 Fending accessories could easily be set to, say, 80, while the VIT cap could be 150, and the gear could come with both stats capped, allowing tanks to have the same melding choices as every other role.

People seem to be missing the point here. What is not being asked for is it to be increased to be as much as VIT.

What is being asked for however, is a meaningful increase that actually makes it worth upgrading to a higher ilvl item instead of just pentamelding a crafted one. For example, the current accessories give 120 at ilvl 320, to 129 at ilvl 330, to 137 at ilvl 340 for your main stat. On top of that, VIT accessories give 40 STR at 320, 41 STR at 330 and 42 STR at 340.

Why "upgrade" when you only gain 2 STR when you could have 76 more DH?

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Originally Posted by Visanis

People seem to be missing the point here. What is not being asked for is it to be increased to be as much as VIT.

What is being asked for however, is a meaningful increase that actually makes it worth upgrading to a higher ilvl item instead of just pentamelding a crafted one. For example, the current accessories give 120 at ilvl 320, to 129 at ilvl 330, to 137 at ilvl 340 for your main stat. On top of that, VIT accessories give 40 STR at 320, 41 STR at 330 and 42 STR at 340.

Why "upgrade" when you only gain 2 STR when you could have 76 more DH?

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Exactly. We don’t need our strength capped necessarily, but it should rise like our vit stat to out pace crafted sets. It would be nice to be able to have choice when melding our accessories.

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Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

There is a easier way to do it....please change tank icon in to red icon.....

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I'd rather that than our icons be changed to just Shields. Or a silhouette of a dummy.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

I'd rather that than our icons be changed to just Shields. Or a silhouette of a dummy.

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To be fair DRK icon kinda does look like a silhouette of a dummy and PLD already has shield... though WAR has huge war axe where marauder has 2 axes and gladiator 2 swords...

We know they originally scaled it so 270 str accessories would be undesirable, but also not break Omega. I think there is a decent chance str gains will normalize now that they've designed content around giving tanks str on their accessories. But I guess it's still 50/50 until we see the actual gear stats.

That being said.. No one ever "forced" me to buy crafted and pentameld them.. :p

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

We know they originally scaled it so 270 str accessories would be undesirable, but also not break Omega. I think there is a decent chance str gains will normalize now that they've designed content around giving tanks str on their accessories. But I guess it's still 50/50 until we see the actual gear stats.

That being said.. No one ever "forced" me to buy crafted and pentameld them.. :p

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Fair enough, no one can force anyone to do anything in game. However, if you want to be BiS then you will need to pentameld. Maybe you don’t care about being BiS, that’s also fine, but I’m against one job having to pentameld to reach BiS while no other job needs it. Especially when we were told in 3.2 that our stats needed to change specifically because we shouldn’t need to pentameld.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Fair enough, no one can force anyone to do anything in game. However, if you want to be BiS then you will need to pentameld. Maybe you don’t care about being BiS, that’s also fine, but I’m against one job having to pentameld to reach BiS while no other job needs it. Especially when we were told in 3.2 that our stats needed to change specifically because we shouldn’t need to pentameld.

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Yea, I agree there. It's an uneven burden. I don't mind if crafted accessories are better than entry level raid gear (tome/normal mode), but they shouldn't be better than actual raid drops.

(I'm not necessarily against BiS, it's just a bit superfluous IMO. My raid paladin spent all that gil crafting and melding accessories and still never outdamages me lol)

But for a lot of you guys at the top level it matters a great deal.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Yea, I agree there. It's an uneven burden. I don't mind if crafted accessories are better than entry level raid gear (tome/normal mode), but they shouldn't be better than actual raid drops.

(I'm not necessarily against BiS, it's just a bit superfluous IMO. My raid paladin spent all that gil crafting and melding accessories and still never outdamages me lol)

But for a lot of you guys at the top level it matters a great deal.

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Rotation wins over BiS. Having the right accessories will not make up for less than optimal rotation.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Fair enough, no one can force anyone to do anything in game. However, if you want to be BiS then you will need to pentameld. Maybe you don’t care about being BiS, that’s also fine, but I’m against one job having to pentameld to reach BiS while no other job needs it. Especially when we were told in 3.2 that our stats needed to change specifically because we shouldn’t need to pentameld.

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From an objective standpoint, there is no uneven ground between crafted fending and crafted anything else.

Every single job is going to pentameld crafted accessories to push content.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

From an objective standpoint, there is no uneven ground between crafted fending and crafted anything else.

Every single job is going to pentameld crafted accessories to push content.

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What dps has crafted BiS? What healer has crafted in its BiS? None, because their main stat growth outweighs any secondary stats melded. The only time this happens if you play tank.

You don’t need to overmeld to clear content (at time of writing) so this is a choice for people looking to push content. For anyone trying to attain tank BiS they will have to do this, their savage drops will be outclassed by an item 20 levels lower.

I have to agree on that, being bis right side on day 1 of Savage release is actually retarded.
But if SE knew their game we would know already. They implemented a new tank Stat (exclusive to tank) and a new dps Stat (exclusive to dps) and look what happened every tank would cry for more direct hit and use everything in their power to stack more DH. That's a poor stats design.
Idk if they can't design stats properly they might aswell copy the mastery skills of wow.

Basically, and if the belt from the first floor is not BiS it means tanks have no incentive to run that floor other than to progress to the next floor.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i would also prefer that the STR stat is capped on the accessories, so we actually have a choice with materia melding.

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Unfortunately we will still be stacking DH but yeah STR needs to be capped on fending accessories. Though if they still have a +2 str increase similar to 4.0 then crafted will still be bis in certain cases due to the forbidden melding.

It was just datamined on Reddit that tank accessories aren’t going to scale further than 1+ STR per 10 ilevels...

This is a problem. A big problem that SE just overlooked. Why is there so much Tank related problems? Why are we the hardest role to balance? This just literally killed my mood to look forward to 4.2.

Guess I’ll be a DPS this expansion and whoever is still a tank? Leave, you don’t deserve this constant neglect.

I wonder why they don't just go the same route with tank stats as they did with healers. Healers don't meld INT because they have their own damage stat (MND). Tenacity should have been made into a main stat which only increases the damage of tanks, and the damage gain of STR on tanks should have been removed to make it a dps main stat just like DEX and INT.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I wonder why they don't just go the same route with tank stats as they did with healers. Healers don't meld INT because they have their own damage stat (MND). Tenacity should have been made into a main stat which only increases the damage of tanks, and the damage gain of STR on tanks should have been removed to make it a dps main stat just like DEX and INT.

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Then you'd hear "Ohh too much dev time would have to go into putting that stat into *every piece of tank gear in the whole game* and making sure it's "balanced," so it's not likely to happen."

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Originally Posted by Reinha

I wonder why they don't just go the same route with tank stats as they did with healers. Healers don't meld INT because they have their own damage stat (MND). Tenacity should have been made into a main stat which only increases the damage of tanks, and the damage gain of STR on tanks should have been removed to make it a dps main stat just like DEX and INT.

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This wouldn't change a thing. Your proposed solution is the same as changing the word "Strength" to "Tenacity". The only solution is to make square understand that Vitality(health) is not a viable primary stat and that strength should be given the front seat on tanking gear.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

It was just datamined on Reddit that tank accessories aren’t going to scale further than 1+ STR per 10 ilevels...

This is a problem. A big problem that SE just overlooked. Why is there so much Tank related problems? Why are we the hardest role to balance? This just literally killed my mood to look forward to 4.2.

Guess I’ll be a DPS this expansion and whoever is still a tank? Leave, you don’t deserve this constant neglect.

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For the role that is the least played SE sure likes to avoid giving us what is needed. This is a great MMO with the best community out there but it's really behind with the treatment of tanks, at least other MMO's make sure you feel powerfull and not JUST a meat shield. SE has been mostly nerfing tank damage if anything and simplifying the tanking part of the jobs, which just doesn't feel good.

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Originally Posted by Falgern

This wouldn't change a thing. Your proposed solution is the same as changing the word "Strength" to "Tenacity". The only solution is to make square understand that Vitality(health) is not a viable primary stat and that strength should be given the front seat on tanking gear.

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If Tenacity was the tank primary stat then obviously Vitality wouldn't be. I should've worded it better. Tank gear (left and right side) would be balanced around Tenacity, Vitality would be an afterthought and Strength accessories+melds could be ignored because they would do nothing for tanks. Vitality should get the same treatment as Piety and just exist on gear as a secondary stat.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

If Tenacity was the tank primary stat then obviously Vitality wouldn't be. I should've worded it better. Tank gear (left and right side) would be balanced around Tenacity, Vitality would be an afterthought and Strength accessories+melds could be ignored because they would do nothing for tanks. Vitality should get the same treatment as Piety and just exist on gear as a secondary stat.

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Then they might as well just keep using strength and just bump the numbers, having another stat to replace it just to do the same doesn't sound remotely logical

Alternatively - pentameld your gear. This game throws so much battle V\VI materia at you its silly.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

Why is there so much Tank related problems? Why are we the hardest role to balance?

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Because we win by killing things, and SE is too afraid to make surviving difficult... so we can afford (and are even encouraged) to only be sturdier DPS.

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Originally Posted by SoulSkyheart

It was just datamined on Reddit that tank accessories aren’t going to scale further than 1+ STR per 10 ilevels...

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It's even worse... There is a whole 1 point of strength difference between crafted 350 and 370 raid accessories...

And the issue is more than just a bus issue. Even if you don't plan to invest in crafted accessories having a tank accessory drop in savage is a big problem for your group, you just obtained 2 more strength than 340 accessory.
But we need something to make it desirable to upgrade the accessories even if the crafted gear is still bis you shouldn't feel like you got a worthless drop if a tank accessory happen to drop.
At least they need to put something desirable in rings, at the bare minimum keep the strength at 1/3 of the cap it would gives us 5 more strength between crafted and savage gear, Probably not enough but at this point maybe you would consider the vit of savage accessories ?
Or put a desirable stat like defence on them so at least you're taking less damage and compensate the slow scaling with healer dps.

Raid accessories should come with the +25 Strength materia already factored in. That at least takes some of the sting off.

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Originally Posted by Falgern

Then they might as well just keep using strength and just bump the numbers, having another stat to replace it just to do the same doesn't sound remotely logical

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Tanks aren't intended to do the amount of damage they would do with full STR accessories. The reason the devs keep changing their minds about STR and VIT is because tanks being able to use melee dps gear makes them difficult to balance. Having their own damage main stat would make it easier to scale tank damage as new tiers of gear are released. TEN could be weaker than STR but included in tank accessories, and this would eliminate the "crafted is BiS" issue.

Or they could just put an extra slot on Blue gear that isn’t on crafted. I know an extra meld slot for main stat would definitely be a reason to upgrade.

I still don't get why they don't just put normal levels of str on fending gear. If tank DPS is too high then drop the potencies. This mismatch of left side being the only upgrades that matter needs to end. Left side gives more str per tome/item. Increases defense. Doesn't burn a meld slot on Str allowing more secondaries.

They have marginalized accessories so much that we just ignore anything over crafted gear. No other job is put in that scenario. Add the darn str. Adjust tank jobs DPS output to account for the increased str so DPS levels are maintained. That fixes every player issue about worthless raid drops and only job forced to spend excessive money for BIS, while simultaneously dealing with the dev concern of keeping str/vit separate so they can scale HP and offense separately for balance purposes (the self stated reason they stopped using vit as damage stat).

I really don't understand why SE is making this so complicated. If making worthwhile accessories on par with EVERY other class (even moreso now that Healers moved to straight mnd stat theres no more excused) makes tank damage 'too damn high' then you made tanks with to much potency. Make balanced gear then make the damage fit what you want them to be. Not the other way around.

Did anyone notice that there is no weapon damage increase from 370 to 375, either? Maybe SE really is worried about the dps creep

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Did anyone notice that there is no weapon damage increase from 370 to 375, either? Maybe SE really is worried about the dps creep

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Yeah, I have. Only a minimal main stat increasement. :/

So, I'm guessing that me, getting pentamelded (STR VI, DH VI, x3 DH V) HQ accs on my tank, sets me for 6 months? Wow, way to kill O5S for me, lol. Once again.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Did anyone notice that there is no weapon damage increase from 370 to 375, either? Maybe SE really is worried about the dps creep

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A quick look at prior ilvl jumps from Heavensward shows that +35 ilvls is usually +4 damage.
Genji is i345 and +30 from there nets another +4 damage.

It's a small sample size, but not heavily outside the pattern as far as end results go.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

A quick look at prior ilvl jumps from Heavensward shows that +35 ilvls is usually +4 damage.
Genji is i345 and +30 from there nets another +4 damage.

It's a small sample size, but not heavily outside the pattern as far as end results go.

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That may be a valid trend, but the +5 raid weapons have always had at least +1 WD. Exceptions being 110 -> 115 was 2 weapon damage, and apparently Gordias was 210 with no 205 weapon until Thordan came out (relics were still 200), but even then there was +1 between 205 and 210.

So it's still kind of odd

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Originally Posted by Aana

I still don\\\\\\'t get why they don\\\\\\'t just put normal levels of str on fending gear. If tank DPS is too high then drop the potencies.

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You gotta take into account levels 50-70 when potencies of tanks are dropped. You’ll be dealing undesirable and unappealing damage. As well as just slowing down parties that are leveling to 70. Dark Knight is already horrible to level from 50-70 and dropping their potencies will not only slow down dungeon clears, but the fact that you can and will be level synced to some dungeons will make it so painful to go through the dungeon, clear it quick and hold hate.

I’m sure you don’t wanna see a a DRK span unleash every 2nd combo to hold hate from you as you level your alt classes. Tank players who’ll want to level alt tank character are gonna hate their lives. This is also gonna make newb tanks in dungeon overwhelmed by how much hate they gotta hate and underwhelmed by what they’re putting out.

This needs fixing.