New info on housing plots, PVP, squadron changes

I didn't see this interview posted here, so I thought I'd share it -- from Reddit / Dual Shockers:

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-f...naoki-yoshida/

Let there be Viera!!!

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Let there be Viera!!!

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Wouldn't surprise me we get them at some point. :)

Still no info on what really matters in housing: the way plots are acquired. We know they said they're looking at ways different to the first-come-first-served system, but nothing beyond that. I have a feeling it's either going to be a lottery-based system or an auction-based system.

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The reason we would not choose to implement a system such as this is that it could compromise the stability of the housing areas, which we want to avoid at all costs—your understanding would be appreciated.

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Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-housing-areas

Well I did, but not in this forum section as housing comments in that interview is more interesting overall imo.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Still no info on what really matters in housing: the way plots are acquired. We know they said they're looking at ways different to the first-come-first-served system, but nothing beyond that. I have a feeling it's either going to be a lottery-based system or an auction-based system.

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If I had to guess, I'm gonna assume it's going to work something like "If you owned a property in the last X amount of time, you have to wait before you can buy another" that and or, "One house per account between all characters, aside from those that already have multiple homes". Though my thoughts are more towards them discouraging the selling of homes rather than making things fair. The only fair thing they can do is do what I said in conjunction with adding more wards. However let's be realistic. They would have to basically double the number of current wards to please everyone when you take both FC and personal home owners into account. Possibly triple in all honesty.

They're keeping a tight lid on it for a reason. I don't think it will be an auction since that would pad the pockets of gil sellers.

I think it will be a system based on your participation in the game. Maybe something based on your character's achievement points? Or your total active playtime? Your level? (i.e. you cannot create and boost an alt JUST to claim a house).

YoshiP seems to be adamant that people not "prepare in advance" so this tells me that simply saving up gil won't matter, and if it's an auction or lottery, there's no way to prepare for that in advance. But you can spend time leveling your character and unlocking different achievements, which WOULD be preparing in advance. I wonder if it's not related to the points system somehow. Redeem your points for a housing plot. If you and another player vie for the same plot, whoever has the most achievement points gets it. /shrug

Of course this would be a slap in the face to people with limited playtime.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

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If I understand the article correctly, they use different servers, interior server and exterior server. Adding a new dynamic housing with new coding only changes the exterior server (the one that provides plots). I guess that explains why we end up outside after logging out inside the house. They would have to change both, I guess that takes time.

Hoping we get viera as a playable race.
I'm glad they're going to add more wards as well.
Looking forward to more info.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

They're keeping a tight lid on it for a reason. I don't think it will be an auction since that would pad the pockets of gil sellers.

I think it will be a system based on your participation in the game. Maybe something based on your character's achievement points? Or your total active playtime? Your level? (i.e. you cannot create and boost an alt JUST to claim a house).

YoshiP seems to be adamant that people not "prepare in advance" so this tells me that simply saving up gil won't matter, and if it's an auction or lottery, there's no way to prepare for that in advance. But you can spend time leveling your character and unlocking different achievements, which WOULD be preparing in advance. I wonder if it's not related to the points system somehow. Redeem your points for a housing plot. If you and another player vie for the same plot, whoever has the most achievement points gets it. /shrug

Of course this would be a slap in the face to people with limited playtime.

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If the reason is so players aren't prepared for it in advance; then I suspect that they're definitely changing the requirements that allows players to purchase one. Something akin to buying a personal room or becoming a mentor. Like that, but not the exact same requirements of course.

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Originally Posted by uvuvwevwevweonyetenyevweugwemu

If I understand the article correctly, they use different servers, interior server and exterior server. Adding a new dynamic housing with new coding only changes the exterior server (the one that provides plots). I guess that explains why we end up outside after logging out inside the house. They would have to change both, I guess that takes time.

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So, the new housing area could work based off the idea that the "interior server" has 2 areas (a bit like how the FC housing does it with the company workshop/private chambers). You have an outside that you'd go to, with a door that leads inside (to the next part). The coding is already there for the most part from what I can see, just requires some tweaking on the "exterior server" to allow it to work in an instanced manner.

Ohh I really hope the requirement is not to be a mentor. I don't need to be a mentor in order to help people, which is why I never went through getting that crown.

It's probably something like having at least one character at level 70. Having X number of player commendations and X achievement points. Whatever the requirements are, I hope they're something that are fairly attainable but do-able.

I do hope they release a Coerthas-themed housing area in the future!

I guess that part of the Balmung populace who wants their server unlocked is gonna be hella disappointed to know that SE is satisfied with their method as it is working. Reminds me of that thread where the OP was shouting from the rooftops that SE didn't release population numbers as evidence and he could login with no probs so that meant Balmung was good to go for unlock.

Expect more salt about it in the near future.

I have no doubt that whatever happens, there's going to be a lot of "I'm leaving" threads and some group is going to be disappointed. The interview goes into some detail on why they can't create an instanced system or outside terraces for apartments. I don't see why it can't be a separate area that isn't loaded in with the main one - kind of like how the company workshop or barracks works.

From the article:
"We are planning on expanding the squadron content itself in future updates, and plan to add features like taking on special missions as well as expanding which dungeons you can challenge."

Knew it. As I said when this solo playing with bots mechanic was introduced, it was only the first step.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Preliminary%29

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

From the article:
"We are planning on expanding the squadron content itself in future updates, and plan to add features like taking on special missions as well as expanding which dungeons you can challenge."

Knew it. As I said when this solo playing with bots mechanic was introduced, it was only the first step.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Preliminary%29

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.. .so "we are adding more stuff for you to do with squadrons"... you got.. what? societal collapse and no more interacting with anyone?
They were pretty straightforward when it was first announced that we were getting more dungeons and things to do later, what was the secret?

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

Let there be Viera!!!

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No.

/10chars

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

.. .so "we are adding more stuff for you to do with squadrons"... you got.. what? societal collapse and no more interacting with anyone?
They were pretty straightforward when it was first announced that we were getting more dungeons and things to do later, what was the secret?

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Predicting the obvious is a doom sayer's bread and butter. Make an easy to predict claim and slap some negativity on it and bam you got entry level scaremongering when it arrives.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

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Everquest, released in 1999 does this just fine. They improved the system with Everquest 2, by simply instancing the houses. And before anyone quips about how they'd have to design a new system, its already in the game in the form of Inns since 2.0.

They wouldn't even have to get rid of the current neighborhood system. Leave that in for those who want to show off. Many of us couldn't care to show off to neighbors and would use instancing. Those in the regular neighborhoods who don't care but want larger housing could easily sell theirs off to those who do want to.

We're not talking about gameplay advantages here, so there shouldn't be any reluctance to give players what they want. In addition we want to PAY for unique housing. In ESO there are houses on their crown store that they can buy that go for upwards of $80. There's not a single item on the Mog Station that goes for that much. There could be. And people would buy them. Right now our housing is LIMITED in size due to the non-instanced nature.

But if you all want to see the sizes that there COULD be. Take a gander at Youtube and search Tier 4 guildhalls in EQ2. Imagine the space of half a housing ward dedicated to one guild. That's what instancing gives you. Not these 'huts' they call 'mansions'.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

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Because it would involve a lot of work and risk introducing plenty of new bugs, and they do not have an infinite number of skilled programmers so they have to prioritize what they work on.

Housing will still only be just adding more wards, they have not been listening to most people in that either instanced or a mix of instanced/non-instanced is the only REAL solutions
They have known about housing issues for a while now...

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Originally Posted by Maero

Housing will still only be just adding more wards, they have not been listening to most people in that either instanced or a mix of instanced/non-instanced is the only REAL solutions
They have known about housing issues for a while now...

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They are at least planning small, medium and large apartments. That is a step forward if those apartments are actually made so they are attractive and something people would want.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

Because it would involve a lot of work and risk introducing plenty of new bugs, and they do not have an infinite number of skilled programmers so they have to prioritize what they work on.

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I want you to go to Gridania, Limsa, Uldah, or Ishgarde. There is a NPC called an innkeeper. Click on them and select Retire to Innroom. Watch what happens.

That's the code needed to make this work.

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

No.

/10chars

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I think you meant to type YES.


On a whole this article just confirmed or didnt confirm things we already knew.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I want you to go to Gridania, Limsa, Uldah, or Ishgarde. There is a NPC called an innkeeper. Click on them and select Retire to Innroom. Watch what happens.

That's the code needed to make this work.

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If I do that I end up in a single room which I cannot customize at all, and which does not have an outside garden.

No, that is not the code needed - as soon as you add the possibility to change things in a house the complexity of the code needed goes up considerably.

Really hoping they go with that using retainers in squadrons idea

I wish they'd let us fantasia our squadron members.

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Additionally, in order to make for quicker matching and to help increase participation in PvP even further, we are looking to refine the time for when specific content is available, to allow for players to better balance both PvE and PvP play.

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I hope this isnt the "limit Feast queues to specific hours of the day" idea I thought I saw him mention before.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

If I do that I end up in a single room which I cannot customize at all, and which does not have an outside garden.

No, that is not the code needed - as soon as you add the possibility to change things in a house the complexity of the code needed goes up considerably.

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ORly?

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3237953847,2224579,2.540000,-2.000000,8.210000,47.980000,0.000000,0.000000,0.50, false,”Veteran’s Display Case”,

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Is the code used for an item in an instance of EQ2 housing.

First number is item ID
Second is Database ID (unique, for indexing purposes on the server)
Next three numbers are the location in X,Z,Y coordinates
Next three after that are the orientation in Rotation, Pitch, and Roll
After those is the size (2.0 is twice as big, .5 is half)
true/false tag determines if the item is in the house's inventory or not
name of item is self explanatory

That's not too complex for ya is it? Why would it be for a SE Dev?

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Originally Posted by Hakuro89

No.

/10chars

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Yes!
/10chars

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Everquest, released in 1999 does this just fine. They improved the system with Everquest 2, by simply instancing the houses. '.

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IIRC, EQ2 had housing long before they added it to EQ1. Issues with EQ1 system were due to engine and spaghetti code.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ORly?

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I'm sorry but... Did you just say you need basically one single line fo code for a whole housing system?

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Is the code used for an item in an instance of EQ2 housing.

First number is item ID
Second is Database ID (unique, for indexing purposes on the server)
Next three numbers are the location in X,Z,Y coordinates
Next three after that are the orientation in Rotation, Pitch, and Roll
After those is the size (2.0 is twice as big, .5 is half)
true/false tag determines if the item is in the house's inventory or not
name of item is self explanatory

That's not too complex for ya is it? Why would it be for a SE Dev?

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That is merely the data describing a single item in a house. It is not the actual code using that data, nor the database structure needed for handling a large number of such item data over a large number of houses.
Basically, what you showed was just the tip of the iceberg. The other 99.9% of the iceberg is where the actual work happens, and is mostly hidden from us users.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

ORly?



Is the code used for an item in an instance of EQ2 housing.

.....

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OK, cool. How does the housing system in FFXIV work? If you know I'd love to hear it, because some transparency on how it gets implemented and why there might be some limitations on their side or a LACK of limitations would be a great argument to petition for simple improvements. If not.. how do you know it's anywhere near what EQ uses and how easy it is to put through?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine.

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Really?

Which MMO generates entire housing zones that then act as permanent, always on zones, on the fly, that also happen to provide features that essentially have to always be "on" like Chocobo Stables and the Market Board?

All the ones I've seen dynamically scale the number of individual instanced housing plots (Wildstar, ESO) or have a set number of zones (LOTRO, which does have a LOT of housing wards but also has severely limited customization with housing items as a result).

Dynamically scaling the availability of housing areas can be easier or much harder based on how those areas work - something to consider before throwing around the "This other MMO does it, XIV should be able to easily as well." The details of how they do "it" are important, after all.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

That is merely the data describing a single item in a house. It is not the actual code using that data, nor the database structure needed for handling a large number of such item data over a large number of houses.
Basically, what you showed was just the tip of the iceberg. The other 99.9% of the iceberg is where the actual work happens, and is mostly hidden from us users.

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Which has largely been done already. The funny thing is, the current wards are instanced by server on the same Datacenter. Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

Oh the other benefit is you can have players own multiple homes this way. I don't understand why you all are so against that. For some reason you don't want someone else to have a home that could be different than yours.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Really?

Which MMO generates entire housing zones that then act as permanent, always on zones, on the fly, that also happen to provide features that essentially have to always be "on" like Chocobo Stables and the Market Board?

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Everquest

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Originally Posted by Berethos

snip

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Ok, so let's tackle this. Since you've mentioned other MMOs, and what they do, how could we translate this to FFXIV?
Dynamic scaling: So, make it so it's only loaded when a user is accessing the area. If needed, potentially put a cap on the number of instances that can be loaded at once.
Chocobo stables: Tie this into a "Holding area" (similar to the area outside apartments for apartment residents).
Marketboard: See "Chocobo stables".

This is why I suggested in another thread to tie it into a new area, so that the backbone (someone has mentioned inn rooms to act as a starting point for the code re-use, since these already dynamically generate, they just need expanding for housing adjustments) can be made for this without breaking the other areas. Ishgard maybe? Can even tie in MSQ requirements to be able to purchase (though we'll need some handwavey magic for FC housing and members accessing without completing the relevant MSQ, maybe look at how Shirogane does it?) so as to keep within the post-DSW.

There we go, some ideas on how FFXIV can do, like these other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

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Isn't that how RuneScape does it?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Other MMOs can do it just fine. Why not create a new housing area based off new code that would allow it?

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Because Yoshida can't seem to see past the current implementation. There is no reason they couldn't come up with a new fully instanced implementation that could run in parallel with the existing wards other than this mental block SE seems to have that they can only work with what they have.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

So, the new housing area could work based off the idea that the "interior server" has 2 areas (a bit like how the FC housing does it with the company workshop/private chambers). You have an outside that you'd go to, with a door that leads inside (to the next part). The coding is already there for the most part from what I can see, just requires some tweaking on the "exterior server" to allow it to work in an instanced manner.

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All they really need to do is include an exterior with the instanced interior and forget about wards for a new implementation. The existing wards could stick around for those folks that want it but it would be with the knowledge they would have ll of the associated problems as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Which has largely been done already. The funny thing is, the current wards are instanced by server on the same Datacenter. Instead of instancing by server, instance by player and allow visitation by others.

Oh the other benefit is you can have players own multiple homes this way. I don't understand why you all are so against that. For some reason you don't want someone else to have a home that could be different than yours.

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I like having wards with multiple houses in them. Per-player instances would lose that, which is why I dislike that solution. Multiple houses per player is only a bad thing when housing is a limited resource.

There is no inherent reason they cannot keep the wards however. Look at LOTRO - pretty much the same setup with houses as we have here, except a much larger number of wards, with new wards getting activated automatically once a certain type of houses are sold out. (Not quite infinite number of wards, or neighbourhoods as they are called in LOTRO, but lots more than we have here.)

Problem is that changing the current setup - and it doesn't really matter in what direction - will involve a lot of work, and quite possibly involve changing things deep down in the messy parts of the code that no sane programmer wants to even touch for fear of breaking things.