Considering jobs will prohibit the use of skills from another class.. Materia

How would you guys feel about materia granting us skills like it used to do in FF7?

I have the feeling that as a monk having materia that gives Protect or StoneSkin would be perfect.

I was going to make a suggestion about this and am glad someone mentioned it. You'd have to find a way to limit it somehow but having materia that worked like that would be a cool idea.

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Originally Posted by Irana

How would you guys feel about materia granting us skills like it used to do in FF7?

I have the feeling that as a monk having materia that gives Protect or StoneSkin would be perfect.

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Players can already equip skills from other classes. Its called the armory system.

I think that pretty much ignores the point of jobs really. The point is that they're specific versions of classes that trade versatility for power/utility.

If you're using Monk, you'll mostly be in a situation where you don't need protect (I.e. 8+ person fights, with a white mage around)

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Originally Posted by Invz

Players can already equip skills from other classes. Its called the armory system.

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You've absolutely missed the point, nice one.

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Originally Posted by Invz

Players can already equip skills from other classes. Its called the armory system.

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1.21 we will have jobs, and its called "you cant equip skills form another class and are limited to your jobs skills".

Read before posting thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Invz

Players can already equip skills from other classes. Its called the armory system.

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Yeah, too bad with jobs you can't.
Personally i'm againt having skills in materia, until they're unique to a job. jobs came out for much an unique fighting stile in opposes to jack-of-all-trades classes, it don't make sense using similar skills with jobs in form of materia (limiting your fighting potential in the meaning)

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Originally Posted by Irana

1.21 we will have jobs, and its called "you cant equip skills form another class and are limited to your jobs skills".

Read before posting thank you very much.

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Actually, as ignorant as the guy you quoted is, you cannot confirm what you are saying is the truth, either. We don't know the specifics about the job system yet. We don't know the degree to which cross classing will be limited or disabled entirely.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Actually, as ignorant as the guy you quoted is, you cannot confirm what you are saying is the truth, either. We don't know the specifics about the job system yet. We don't know the degree to which cross classing will be limited or disabled entirely.

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Yes we do. You won't be able to use skills from alternative classes, this was confirmed a long time ago. It'll only be the base class skills and the skills of the job for now at least. (There were skill lists released a couple of months back if you're interested)

Edit- As for skills from materia, I'm not sure it's a good idea being as you'd have to keep reacquiring it every time you replaced the gear, especially if the skills had disproportionately good effects, and if they didn't no one would bother for the above reason.

Edit2- If they came up with another system that was essentially a customisable trait system revolving around rare materia (being as the materia you referenced in FF7 could be fused to the person too?) that become attached to you rather than your gear to augment specific skills, that could be interesting. For example they could provide passive utility such as removing the MP drain from Monk's stances, and you'd select the materia based on preferred stance or something, and make a choice based on it's benefit vs. other materia.

Even then these systems rarely come together well, people just pick the ones that add the most DEEPS and it's not even a choice of what to pick.

There was a dev (or Yoshi) post (I'll have to dig for it) That stated that you can only use certain skills.
For example, Paladin being unlocked by Gladiator and Marauder can only use skills from those two classes.

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Originally Posted by Irana

How would you guys feel about materia granting us skills like it used to do in FF7?

I have the feeling that as a monk having materia that gives Protect or StoneSkin would be perfect.

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jobs are for party play so why would you need a materia that gives something the mages are supposed to do anyway.

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Originally Posted by Fated

Actually, as ignorant as the guy you quoted is, you cannot confirm what you are saying is the truth, either. We don't know the specifics about the job system yet. We don't know the degree to which cross classing will be limited or disabled entirely.

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Yes, as ignorant as you are, you are correct sir.

they never acutually said no cross-class skills can be used on jobs. they stated they would limit. it may mean you can use less skills on your job due to the job skills taking 5 slots of your 10 or it could mean the selection on jobs is farther limited. they may make it to where you can't cross any, but i doubt that. the reason being is that unless they allow some i still think the classes would be better for a party besides adding a bard.

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Originally Posted by Irana

How would you guys feel about materia granting us skills like it used to do in FF7?

I have the feeling that as a monk having materia that gives Protect or StoneSkin would be perfect.

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Hmm, I wouldn't like this because it would defeat the purpose of the adding gear later that grants skill enhancements for example (we already know Job specific equipment will be introduced alongside jobs.)

Plus, jobs already take skill pools from the class it's apart of -- Paladin will pull from Gladiator native skills for example.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

jobs are for party play so why would you need a materia that gives something the mages are supposed to do anyway.

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So you dont want to try to solo certain NMs with your jobs? and why cant you solo with a job? this post makes no sense

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Originally Posted by Irana

So you dont want to try to solo certain NMs with your jobs? and why cant you solo with a job? this post makes no sense

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SE stated Jobs are more defined roles specifically designed with Party play in mind -- Also not everything has to be made soloable, what would be the point of party play if you can simply solo everything..?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

they never acutually said no cross-class skills can be used on jobs. they stated they would limit. it may mean you can use less skills on your job due to the job skills taking 5 slots of your 10 or it could mean the selection on jobs is farther limited. they may make it to where you can't cross any, but i doubt that. the reason being is that unless they allow some i still think the classes would be better for a party besides adding a bard.

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He did. I'm not going to go looking for the original announcement of jobs, but the whole idea is that you lose the ability to be self-sufficient due to cross classing so that you can make gains in your specific area. They were made to create individual identity, something cross-classing stifles somewhat.

Jobs were designed with large groups in mind, it's going to be interesting watching people trying to shoehorn them into other roles (soloing etc) and complaining that it doesn't work very well.

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Originally Posted by Irana

So you dont want to try to solo certain NMs with your jobs? and why cant you solo with a job? this post makes no sense

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That's what classes are for, geez would it kill people to keep up with announcements before accusing others of being wrong? lol.

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Originally Posted by Sephr

He did. I'm not going to go looking for the original announcement of jobs, but the whole idea is that you lose the ability to be self-sufficient due to cross classing so that you can make gains in your specific area. They were made to create individual identity, something cross-classing stifles somewhat.

Jobs were designed with large groups in mind, it's going to be interesting watching people trying to shoehorn them into other roles (soloing etc) and complaining that it doesn't work very well.



That's what classes are for, geez would it kill people to keep up with announcements before accusing others of being wrong? lol.

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This. I can't wait, people think MMOs are supposed to be solo playgrounds which is why people get bored of one MMO and easily can jump to the next solo playground that gets released.

i vote no for the idea, as job is design for pt, I dont see the point to cross skill

Just saying it would be fun....

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Originally Posted by Irana

So you dont want to try to solo certain NMs with your jobs? and why cant you solo with a job? this post makes no sense

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ummmmm...... no i dont want to solo certain NM's with my job,lol, i dont want to solo anything actually. i enjoy playing with others. If i want to solo ill stab people to death in COD.

like i said jobs are designed for party play, you want to crumble the foundation by making arguments for job soloing now.

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Originally Posted by Irana

Just saying it would be fun....

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Would be fun, though the whole purpose of Jobs are for party play and raid content, classes are for solo.

I think if the Armoury System was originally more designed closer to this to begin with. But at the current direction, I can't see this fitting into the schema.

SUPER TANGENT below totally NOT ripped from one of my pre-FFXIV launch blog posts on some obscure website. Bold for addendum.

edit: And removed because this is not the appropriate place to post it.

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Originally Posted by Invz

Players can already equip skills from other classes. Its called the armory system.

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Are you really that illiterate?

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Originally Posted by Irana

Considering jobs will prohibit the use of skills from another class

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Its the damn title, YOU HAD TO READ THIS SHIT TO POST HERE. or do you just randomly click threads and reply to first post you see?


Anyway, on to the discussion, don't know about granting abilities, but I would like to see Materia with auto-skills like we would find on gear in other FF titles, like Auto-Shell, Auto-Reflect, Auto-Regen, etc... apply effect once per battle when/if HP reaches crit, etc...

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Originally Posted by Zeref

Anyway, on to the discussion, don't know about granting abilities, but I would like to see Materia with auto-skills like we would find on gear in other FF titles, like Auto-Shell, Auto-Reflect, Auto-Regen, etc... apply effect once per battle when/if HP reaches crit, etc...

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And don't forget Auto-Raise (15% chance if you die) ^^

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Originally Posted by Felis

And don't forget Auto-Raise (15% chance if you die) ^^

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Or introduction of Phoenix for Summ-...oh wait people are complaining about adding jobs and classes to this game. Seriously though, if summoner is added and they die last in a party, Phoenix can auto raise the party like FFIX since we're in the job trait frame of idea suggestions.

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Originally Posted by Felis

And don't forget Auto-Raise (15% chance if you die) ^^

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>stick auto-Raise on every piece of gear, 6x15% chance, Ifrit ain't got nothing on me.

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Originally Posted by Irana

How would you guys feel about materia granting us skills like it used to do in FF7?

I have the feeling that as a monk having materia that gives Protect or StoneSkin would be perfect.

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I would appreciate a "talent" system built into materia for jobs. I don't want to see skills from other jobs being put into materia, but having the option to specialize a skill via materia would be really neat (Ie: Diablo 3 runes). Ie: A materia to make lightning spells AOE instead of single target, or a materia to make fire spells single target rather than aoe. Materia that reduces cooldown of barrage. Basically something related SPECIFICALLY to the job, but gives a variety of options to play in many different ways.

To me, materia should be more than just an enchanting/jewelcrafting service.

I think this would be a very cool addition if they did it as follows: Player equips featherfoot materia to a pair of shoes. Say its a level IV materia. Said player now has a 8% chance to have featherfoot activate each time he is struck. The same mechanic could be used for protect and a lot of the other defensive abilities. Since the armory system allows you to already pick and choose, this could be a nice addition that still limits player control, helping to keep it balanced. Oh, and these shouldn't stack.

I also would like to see materia that adds mp and hp siphon to weapons, even if its just a small amount.

No confirmation on Jobs prohibiting cross-classing. All that was ever said in this regard is that switching to a job would limit one's ability to cross class.

Considering the recent confirmation that job quests will be unlocked by having a primary class at level 30 as well as a specific sub class at 15 it isn't a far stretch of the mind to say one will be further limited in the number of skills they can cross-class as well as only be able to take from the sub class.

As for the idea of materias granting skills, I don't think it'll be easy to balance or worth the trouble. The whole point is for jobs to be dependent on others. The limited cross-class is by design, and thus a system that covers that weakness is counter-productive.

Personally, I think a lot of unique passive effects should be incorporated into accessories as well as some rare gear.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No confirmation on Jobs prohibiting cross-classing. All that was ever said in this regard is that switching to a job would limit one's ability to cross class.

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Actually, I believe the wording was "we are looking at jobs limiting cross class abilities."

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Originally Posted by Coglin

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

No confirmation on Jobs prohibiting cross-classing. All that was ever said in this regard is that switching to a job would limit one's ability to cross class.

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Actually, I believe the wording was "we are looking at jobs limiting cross class abilities."

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http://images.wikia.com/healthyrecip.../9d/Tomato.png

lol......I wasn't trying to be all [tuh-mey-toh] - [tuh-mah-toh].......what I was getting at was that they "would limit" and they "would look into limiting it" displayed two different levels of the dev teams commitment to the idea of how strongly they are leaning one way or the other on the issue.

I guess on that note though, now that I think about it, who knows how much was lost in translation also.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

http://images.wikia.com/healthyrecip.../9d/Tomato.png

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Is that a Tamatoe?

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Originally Posted by Zeref

Anyway, on to the discussion, don't know about granting abilities, but I would like to see Materia with auto-skills like we would find on gear in other FF titles, like Auto-Shell, Auto-Reflect, Auto-Regen, etc... apply effect once per battle when/if HP reaches crit, etc...

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This, totally.

The thread focused on the "jobs are for pt" point of the OP's suggestion, but the idea itself has a lot of potential in other contexts.

Right now materia = stats bonuses. I'd be all for materia = traits and materia = abilities. Doesn't have to be existing abilities from other classes, at least not in name and potency

Wy are some of you folks so determined to remove the value of spells/abilities? if you want protect, level CNJ to 6, if you want elemental benefits of the buff, work with a CNJ to get it.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Wy are some of you folks so determined to remove the value of spells/abilities? if you want protect, level CNJ to 6, if you want elemental benefits of the buff, work with a CNJ to get it.

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Well I wouldn't say it removes them (if you are referring to my post on auto-skills) things like Auto-Shell, Auto-Protect, and Auto-Regen, they're not really potent or long lasting, they're generally there for an emergency's sake, if you are hit harder than you expected it could buy you a second or two to cast your full buffs, it generally never killed classes in other titles, I fail to see how it would here because, for example, Shell gives you (this is a random number) 10% protection for 5 mins, Auto-Shell would give you 5% protection for 30 seconds. I'm just pulling random numbers here, have no interest in pretending I know how to balance a game, but that was just my opinion.

If you're talking about something else though :/ its over my head.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

Well I wouldn't say it removes them (if you are referring to my post on auto-skills) .

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It removes some of there value, in my opinion. We have a system that gives you access to these abilities, its called the armory system. You offer to add features that take away from this.
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Originally Posted by Zeref

it generally never killed classes in other titles, I fail to see how it would here.

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Other titles? How many MMOs do you know that have this feature? How many of them have the armory feature as a main characteristic of the game, thus in my opinion, proving it may kill classes.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

, for example, Shell gives you (this is a random number) 10% protection for 5 mins, Auto-Shell would give you 5% protection for 30 seconds. I'm just pulling random numbers here, have no interest in pretending I know how to balance a game, but that was just my opinion.

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i guess thats kind of my point, I think it screws with the balance of the armory system. A system I personally, am very fond of.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

It removes some of there value, in my opinion. We have a system that gives you access to these abilities, its called the armory system. You offer to add features that take away from this.

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The entire Idea of Auto-skills, if you'd read my initial post (or maybe I just forgot to mention it) is that its a Job-specific materia, since we cannot use armory system with Jobs to just give stonewall to paladin for example. (is the impression I was under)

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Other titles? How many MMOs do you know that have this feature?

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Sorry, I should have said Other Final Fantasy titles, A lot of FF titles had Auto-skills but it did not lower the need for proper support and healer skills and classes.

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Originally Posted by Zeref

The entire Idea of Auto-skills, if you'd read my initial post (or maybe I just forgot to mention it) is that its a Job-specific materia, since we cannot use armory system with Jobs to just give stonewall to paladin for example. (is the impression I was under)

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Oh I see .......I am confussed because you based your post on misinformation.

You say

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Originally Posted by Zeref

we cannot use armory system with Jobs

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And Yoshi-P says

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

We are looking at jobs limiting cross class abilities.

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See the difference?

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Repeat your statement all you like, I know which one I believe.

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I wasn't really trying to be a dick, but you're kind of pushing me, arn't cha? like you're trying to pick a fight with me, did you miss it or did you just chose to ignore the "(is the impression I was under)" And even so you might find a different quote because in that quote you posted he said they're looking at Limiting cross class abilities. I can see how it might be difficulty to understand that "you can't tack whatever on your job" means "you can't tack whatever on your job" but hell if it doesn't retain its meaning no matter how it is phrased.