MCH broken or fixed opinions please.

I am just curious what people think about our 1% buff to hypercharge in the last patch did this fix mch for you or do you feel more can be done? Personally am leaning towards it still a lot of work for little reward compared to other classes.

I thought it was fine before and after the 1% HC buff. The only thing I'd change about MCH is returning to Heated Shots, Spread Shot and Hot Shot granting 10 Heat instead of 5, and Quick Reload lowering Heat by 10. It was more fun and engaging to me. If we only get one AoE, too, I wish they'd give us back Grenado Shot and remove Spread Shot, even if they lowered GS's potency to be the same as SS now. It's a ranged job, I don't like having to go into melee range to line up a silly cone AoE.

More fun with heat and less ping dependant is all I need.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by briarth0rn

I thought it was fine before and after the 1% HC buff. The only thing I'd change about MCH is returning to Heated Shots, Spread Shot and Hot Shot granting 10 Heat instead of 5, and Quick Reload lowering Heat by 10. It was more fun and engaging to me. If we only get one AoE, too, I wish they'd give us back Grenado Shot and remove Spread Shot, even if they lowered GS's potency to be the same as SS now. It's a ranged job, I don't like having to go into melee range to line up a silly cone AoE.

---

Please no, never again the +10 per ammo and -10 per QR... Was way too much useless.

I agree with not wanting the +10 heat thing back. It just made for an awkward flow. +5, and with all the tools available now, MCH has a very nice clockwork to it. You can very easily still do it wrong (and lag/latency can still do that too), but now you're neither just completely ass-out on a mistake, or forced into awkward stops/snapbacks on heat generation. Build, spend, cooldown, repeat. #feelsgoodoniichan

Hrm... logs say MCH is about 160-200 DPS above BRD. If that's roughly the difference in RDPS gained from their respective utility, that'd be fine? "Fixed", if you wanna call it that.

Personally, I didn't ditch MCH over numbers, so it's still broken in my eyes. But I'll just let the usage statistic speak for itself there and play bard for my RDPS needs in the meantime instead >_>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

lag/latency

---

So much that. Since I replay it, Quick Reload spamming that doesn't work when you're at 95 Heatgauge... And by reflex you're using a shot just after, thought you've reload... Or Flamethrower that passes you from 60 to 100...

It’s fine. Boring and ping dependent, but fine in terms of DPS.

Actually having a heat mechanic to make decisions around would make the class far more enjoyable.

Things are still awkward.

Flamethrower's design is counterintuitive in almost every possible way. It's a DPS loss to use for more than a second in single target, and it's good for AOE but it will cause you to overheat and waste the overheat buff because it snapshots buffs when used. Trying to snapshot it and the end of overheat is usually a waste because it takes a full minute of spread shot to get there. Being unable to move or turn is also clunky, as is how it ticks on a timer that doesn't start when the skill starts, making it possible for flamethrower to go on cooldown without doing any damage or increasing heat.

The entire heat mechanic is an overcomplicated Raging Strikes right now too, and the need to overheat every wildfire makes the rotation feel much more static than it was in 4.0 or 3.x.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idolon

Things are still awkward.

Flamethrower's design is counterintuitive in almost every possible way. It's a DPS loss to use for more than a second in single target, and it's good for AOE but it will cause you to overheat and waste the overheat buff because it snapshots buffs when used. Trying to snapshot it and the end of overheat is usually a waste because it takes a full minute of spread shot to get there. Being unable to move or turn is also clunky, as is how it ticks on a timer that doesn't start when the skill starts, making it possible for flamethrower to go on cooldown without doing any damage or increasing heat.

The entire heat mechanic is an overcomplicated Raging Strikes right now too, and the need to overheat every wildfire makes the rotation feel much more static than it was in 4.0 or 3.x.

---

I also prefered to see OH a balance to maintain and a punishment from failing, that the actual "automatically flows 20% aligned damage mechanics" which includes weaving a FT tick to trigger at the right moment. That's playable, but clearly not a wonderful thought mechanic.

It's fine in DPS numbers, and more than viable in raids.
You can take either Bard or MCH and not feel like you lost out on something at all.

But the problem was it's gameplay, not it's DPS anymore. So....eh.

It feals like a more constant, slightly weeker, burst version of 3.0 MCH when they droped the heat generation to 5 but I will admit using Flamethrower just to enter Overheat seams odd as its sposta be an chanelled AoE. Maybe if they changed the Gauss Barrel skill to its PVP version (use to attach Gauss Barrel then u "may" use again to OGC forcefully enter Overheat) might be a good switch but it might then make Flamethrower more useless.

Having reattach Gauss Barrel/redeploy turrets is rather annoying, and I was hoping they'd have done something about that when 4.0 arrived.

I also agree that having to use Flamethrower to overheat feels really clunky, and the skill in general just feels really underwhelming. I feel like we should at least be able to turn while using it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KageTokage

Having reattach Gauss Barrel/redeploy turrets is rather annoying, and I was hoping they'd have done something about that when 4.0 arrived.

I also agree that having to use Flamethrower to overheat feels really clunky, and the skill in general just feels really underwhelming. I feel like we should at least be able to turn while using it.

---

I agree, I don't understand why GB is not like unnefective instead of removing (at least, this a perma- + 5% dps, so there is no reason to remove it. It almost a trait than a skill...) and why not the same for turret? Like they don't attack for 30 sec and then restart?
It's all of that little thing that make the MCH clunky.

You would of thought with all the posts I seen about changing heat back and making gauss and the turret stay on and just not work for the time before 4.1 they would of changed it in the last patch but I was kind of curious when the patched dropped there was a total lack of posts about the subject or is it people have just given up on machinist now?

We wanted the Gauss Barrel model gone all through Heavensward, but it seems they've doubled down on it.

Putting that aside, enough BRDs clamored and expressed their dislike of cast times that they ditched it in Stormblood. Perhaps some of our bigger likes/dislikes will effect change in the near future (i.e. SMN getting Sustain back), but devs themselves said that because the camp is so split among MCHs, they weren't sure what to do. There's also their concern of making us overpowered as well.

Before any of that could happen though, we'd likely all have to be on the same page. Personally speaking, of all the issues the job has/had, having to reattach the Gauss Barrel or place a turret again is rather minor to me. But then again, I wasn't blowing them up before. I did place and adjust them a lot in fights, and there were times I toggled the barrel before, so it's pretty second nature now.

Feels easier to play, less punishing but ultimately more boring to play now. I still prefer it over HW version though. I love the class but dislike that to put out optimal dps you're essentially doing an opener every 60s to make Wildfire useful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

We wanted the Gauss Barrel model gone all through Heavensward, but it seems they've doubled down on it.

---

This cuts me deep ;-;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dotsforlife

I love the class but dislike that to put out optimal dps you're essentially doing an opener every 60s to make Wildfire useful.

---

The huge, one-dimensional focus on Wildfire is my main plaint as well. The heat gauge had the potential to break that up and introduce a second management dimension to the job, but with intentional overheat being a thing, the entire thing is essentially nothing but another especially clunky CD to add to your Wildfire. Heat reduction just emphasized that even more, because cooldown is frequently not even a skill you'd use outside of the overheated period anymore because heat builds up at a convenient pace to set up for the next Wildfire overheat without it and putting Hot Shot on the 60 second Wildfire timer emphasized the one-dimensional gameplay further.

It's very apparent that this is how SE wants MCH to play, though, so I have no hope that it's going to change - Most certainly not this expansion, maybe not ever. Whoever likes that can have it, I'll just keep the goggles <.<

One thing I really liked about the pvp setup of machinist is Hot Shot mirrors Cooldown in terms of heat (+25/-25). It's wonderful. Two shots to recover to 50 heat if Barrel Stabilizer isn't available and would cut out the need for Flamethrower's jankiness.

Then again, I'm in the minority that wants shots to be +10 heat when above 50 too like at launch.

I think MCH is in a good spot I just wish there was even more damage available for managing heat even better. However, I think MCH is about where it was in the middle of heavensward...the balance is there, and since we are all % based, without even changing the job, MCH will grow in DPS with the next iLvl/raid tier increase because of gear creep.

I'd be interested in thoughts on making wildfire skill chain based. Instead of a timer it would only go off after using a certain amount of skills. I think that would help SE balance out the class.

I like mech but..... not a fan of blowing EVERYTHING into a 10sec window of wildfire.... especially using flamethrower to overheat which then u have to get 6GCD off within 10sec

Mech is just up and down rollercoaster ride

10sec of blowing your load... 1min downtime of weaving....and repeat until boss is dead

Really dislike flamethrower.. its nice animation but lets be real its crap outside of AoE where u snap it at the last second of overheating.... otherwise this skill is just used for overheat...

Same for cooldown.... i rarely use it... apart from it being in wildfire 6gcd... outside of wildfire i may use it once or twice depending if i got a proc before i need to wildfire

Double post due to on mobile

Personally i would love some sort of Ammunition mechanic rather then the overheat gauge could have been used with the reload and turn quick reload into golden rounds

so u will use reload to juggle ur shots but u load in 1 special bullet with quick reload... your aim would be to get 6 golden bullets which then you will enter wildfire state

They could have made barrel stabilizer to flip your ammo so your golden bullets is last in your clip since your trying to get 6 bullets to enter wildfire state

bit this is just 1 of many of my silly ideas what i would do for mech

I'm just trying MCH again after giving up on it in early HW. It feels...weird now. The guass no longer makes me a turret, one of the main reasons I gave it up. But the heat mechanic seems like nothing more then a pain. At L61 there seems no reason to overheat. At the same time, I don't understand all the talk of cooling down. When I get close to overheating I can just toggle the guass barrel off and on (there is no cooldown to it) and poof, no heat. Now, I realize at L62, my basic three shots will get more powerful overheated, and likely plays into Wildfire, but since I lose the barrel for 30 secs after overheating, is it even worth it? Or would I still put out more overall DPS by just toggling the barrel every time I'm about to overheat?

You lose the barrel for 10 seconds, not 30. Before you have heated shots, it's 10 seconds of 20% extra damage, followed by 10 seconds of 5% less damage. As awkward as it feels to just overheat whenever before lv 62, I don't think there's a situation where you'd want to toggle Gauss off to reset heat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Idolon

You lose the barrel for 10 seconds, not 30. Before you have heated shots, it's 10 seconds of 20% extra damage, followed by 10 seconds of 5% less damage. As awkward as it feels to just overheat whenever before lv 62, I don't think there's a situation where you'd want to toggle Gauss off to reset heat.

---

Why did I think it was 30? Guess my head's still spinning from trying to wrap my head around the MCH changes. Starting to figure it all out, but it really seemed counter-intuitive in some ways. Like overheating being a good thing. You'd think a mechanism involving heat management and the term "overheating" would involve you doing what you can to squeeze every drop of DPS out without overheating. Ah well, I'll get there. Thanks for the help!

https://www.mooglemedia.com/mch-guide/

This moment you discover your opener isn't good, and you have to learn a new one.

Btw, I'm just re-maining MCH little by little after maining SAM during SB, and I've to say: it's a powerfull job WHEN you know the fight.

I think if Flamethrower got a rework, a lot of Machinist’s jankiness would fade. I’m only bringing it up because it’s labeled an instant, but it takes almost a full GCD before applying the first tick of damage and heat then every second afterwards. That starting animation lock (and continuing movement lock) is terrible for a class that has free range to move at every other point in the fight. So, when you’re going into your wildfire and hit flamethrower to overheat, you have to intuit both a GCD timing and server tick to maximize your overheat time. But, while you’re doing so, you’ve interrupted your GCD flow which is where the weird feeling comes from.

It’s just... bad.

Oddly, if you were forced to use an extra Cooldown because of the fight phasing, even getting an that one extra tick on Flamethrower helps smooth out the feeling.

I agree that reworking Flamethrower could fix a lot of my frustrations with the job. I can't count how many times I've tried to do a one-tick tap into overheat, only to cut it too short and have it go on cooldown without actually doing anything.

My biggest issues with Machinist right now are:

1. The entire heat mechanic is basically Raging Strikes now.
2. Very tight timings needed for optimal overheat-Wildfire, combined with Flamethrower's inconsistent tick timings.
3. Over-concentration of job mechanics to Wildfire bursts. The tight timings on this leave little room for error, which makes it difficult when fight mechanics coincide with Wildfire. It also leaves little to do between bursts except spam shots, ammo, and Gauss Round (also a valid complaint about 3.x MCH, but we had more oGCDs then, timers for some attacks didn't all line up under Wildfire every time, and you had to manipulate procs for movement). Heat used to give us something to do in the downtime, but now it just adds more stuff to Wildfire.
4. Unintuitive and uninteresting skills: Cooldown is used more as a filler skill once you're already overheated than it is to control heat. Flamethrower lasts 10 seconds, but is ideally used for only one in single target. It is used for all 10 seconds in AOE, but it always overheats partway through, and it does not gain the 20% damage boost unless you started it while already overheating. Also, why does Hot Shot still exist?