Bring you A and S Game V achievment has created toxicity in the community.

Before these achievements and the mount was added to the game, most players would wait for a sizable group to take down A and S rank hunts.

Now people pull extremely early.

This is a direct result of adding a mount to an achievement that requires tons of grinding. It also doesn't help they put Mythic Clan Mark logs on Centurio Seals as well.
It has quickly turned into kill the mobs as fast as you can and don't care about anyone else.

IMHO this was a bad idea by the development team.

The achievements and mounts honestly do not impact early pulling. Early pullers only care about their own time and would do it regardless of what is at stake. Otherwise there is no reason to not wait since by the time you hunt all the A-ranks the first one might not be back yet and S-ranks definitely aren't gonna be back.

Honestly its still stupid to have a mount behind a time lock. S ranks only spawn every now and then, yet you need a ton of them just to get the tiger... doesn't help people who have to work/have other things in real life to do. I know they wanted to give things to the hardcore hunters and all, but the tiger mount people have been requesting for ages was just kind of... eh.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

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But are you doing anything to spawn the S ranks? Since you're on behemoth I know the situation you're talking about, and I know just how many people complain about early pulls when they never do anything to help spawn a single S rank.

Often I'll spawn something, announce, wait 2-3 minutes, it gets pulled then killed, and people will complain about the pull. They always do, ever since hunts existed, the complaining has existed, this achievement has changed nothing.

Basically this boils down to, work on spawning/finding more, and you'll find you'll have this issue significantly less.

Early pulling was around way before the achievement was added. The ratio between early pullers vs those who wait hasn't really changed, imo. You'll still run into the occasional a-hole. If it bothers you, one method you might consider is to research which linkshells that person is getting the hunt calls, and drop them if you are in them. If it's from relays, same thing.

Hunts are a flawed system, which has been mentioned over and over and over again, but SE thinks they did a brilliant job. So take matters into your own hands the best you can.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

Basically this boils down to, work on spawning/finding more, and you'll find you'll have this issue significantly less.

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Also, this.

Are you actively hunting down the hunts yourself or just waiting to hear when other people find them? No one has a 'right' to hunt mobs except the hunter/s but we have fostered a community that shares them.

The achievement is not effected by an 'early pull' and people tend to 'early pull' the lvl -60 hunts because they will not get decent credit if there is 200 people and it dies in one cool down.

Simply put, the 'early pulls' are because we are too powerful for them. After all, you can easily solo older hunts.

It depends on the server, honestly. On Cerberus there's still the occasional selfish player who will pull something very early but in the vast majority of cases I've seen between 50-100 players wait for about five minutes before pulling and take the time to invite people into groups so that they stand a better chance of getting full credit. The people in charge of the hunt based linkshells I am in also do a great job at kicking those who pull early.

I do agree that the system is rather flawed though and that it's questionable to lock the mount behind such a painful achievement. Especially when the mount was created specifically in response to a lot of people asking for it to be added to the game. Most of those people will never get their hands on it.

This was as much of an issue on my server before the achievement was released as it is now.

And as people stated, if you're serious about getting the achievement, then search for and spawn the hunts yourself to ensure you're there on time.

I really do think they ought to make the achievement easier to get, though, whether by lowering the requirements or increasing S rank spawn rates.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

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Often I'll spawn something, announce, wait 2-3 minutes, it gets pulled then killed

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I think you are being impatient, tbh. I spawn and search for A/S a lot. I wait 5 minutes, because 2-3 minutes doesn't give people enough time to get there. The announcement get disseminated=1-2 minutes over various LS and FCs. People finish up their business=Give 30s-1m. People tele to nearest aetheryte= 10s-30s. Travel to area= usually about 1-2m. That's 4m30s on average. You are not waiting long enough, unless you only care about yourself, and are just announcing for bragging or to throw off "you didn't even announce it!" drama. Anyone after 5m, tough luck. But yeah, when I was on mateus, I still had complainers. But now I'm on Tonberry/Valefor and everything is gravy. And we don't even bother with shouting LOL, only pf. You just aren't waiting long enough.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I think you are being impatient, tbh. I spawn and search for A/S a lot. I wait 5 minutes, because 2-3 minutes doesn't give people enough time to get there. The announcement get disseminated=1-2 minutes over various LS and FCs. People finish up their business=Give 30s-1m. People tele to nearest aetheryte= 10s-30s. Travel to area= usually about 1-2m. That's 4m30s on average. You are not waiting long enough, unless you only care about yourself, and are just announcing for bragging or to throw off "you didn't even announce it!" drama. Anyone after 5m, tough luck. But yeah, when I was on mateus, I still had complainers. But now I'm on Tonberry and everything is gravy. And we don't even bother with shouting LOL, only pf. You just aren't waiting long enough.

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I'm not pulling any of the hunts I spawn, I said 2-3 minutes is how long it takes on average for someone else to decide to pull.

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Originally Posted by Unease_Lemming

I'm not pulling any of the hunts I spawn, I said 2-3 minutes is how long it takes on average for someone else to decide to pull.

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Oh, then why are you defending them? They stole your spawn... that's a huge no no on JPN servers. Get blacklisted quick.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Oh, then why are you defending them? They stole your spawn... that's a huge no no on JPN servers. Get blacklisted quick.

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I wasn't defending the pullers, either. If I had my way, we'd let everyone with any interest arrive, I really have no issue with waiting. That's just not something that's going to happen on NA servers, or Behemoth at least, there will always be an "early" puller.

My entire point really just is that over years of spawning hunts it's been very consistent that the people that whine about hunts, and missing out on hunts, are generally the ones that put in the least amount of work themselves. Those are the people I have real issues with.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

Oh, then why are you defending them? They stole your spawn... that's a huge no no on JPN servers. Get blacklisted quick.

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I'm not surprised. Japanese players seem to be a lot more respectful when it comes to these sort of things. A lot of people on the North American and European servers do not realise or care how much time and effort goes into causing S ranks to spawn - so it's particularly irritating when someone responsible for spawning one gets screwed over because of an early pull. It's just less common on some worlds than others.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I think you are being impatient, tbh. I spawn and search for A/S a lot. I wait 5 minutes, because 2-3 minutes doesn't give people enough time to get there. The announcement get disseminated=1-2 minutes over various LS and FCs. People finish up their business=Give 30s-1m. People tele to nearest aetheryte= 10s-30s. Travel to area= usually about 1-2m. That's 4m30s on average. You are not waiting long enough, unless you only care about yourself, and are just announcing for bragging or to throw off "you didn't even announce it!" drama. Anyone after 5m, tough luck. But yeah, when I was on mateus, I still had complainers. But now I'm on Tonberry/Valefor and everything is gravy. And we don't even bother with shouting LOL, only pf. You just aren't waiting long enough.

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In reality, it doesn't matter how long you wait, people will always complain about an early pull. A few weeks ago, someone shouted in the linkshell for an A Rank. Little interest seem to be. Only a few of us showed up. We all shouted in all our linkshells. We waited easily 10 minutes to get a group and we pulled. After it died people were crying early pull. They obviously weren't there at the beginning of the call, but showed up way after and missed it. Early pull was yelled and we who were there at the beginning could only shake our heads.

People thinking they deserve hunt credit when they weren't the ones that found the mark. It's a nice courtesy to call it and wait for others to arrive, but this mentality of "we HAVE to wait for 90% of the server to show up" is frankly unreasonable. You spawn it, you find it, you kill it, you get the reward. That is the intention.

There is still no early pulling. Just being late

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Before these achievements and the mount was added to the game, most players would wait for a sizable group to take down A and S rank hunts.

Now people pull extremely early.

This is a direct result of adding a mount to an achievement that requires tons of grinding. It also doesn't help they put Mythic Clan Mark logs on Centurio Seals as well.
It has quickly turned into kill the mobs as fast as you can and don't care about anyone else.

IMHO this was a bad idea by the development team.

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None of this is any different than how hunts have been for some time now. Log books for hunt seals is not new. While the mount may be new, we're also in a busy time in the expansion and patch. I find hunts tend to be pulled faster related to how busy a server is at the time.

Maybe they should ban chat during hunts to fix toxicity?

/s

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Before these achievements and the mount was added to the game, most players would wait for a sizable group to take down A and S rank hunts.

Now people pull extremely early.

This is a direct result of adding a mount to an achievement that requires tons of grinding. It also doesn't help they put Mythic Clan Mark logs on Centurio Seals as well.
It has quickly turned into kill the mobs as fast as you can and don't care about anyone else.

IMHO this was a bad idea by the development team.

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Kill them faster or find em faster or spawn em faster then uwu

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

I think you are being impatient, tbh. I spawn and search for A/S a lot. I wait 5 minutes, because 2-3 minutes doesn't give people enough time to get there. The announcement get disseminated=1-2 minutes over various LS and FCs. People finish up their business=Give 30s-1m. People tele to nearest aetheryte= 10s-30s. Travel to area= usually about 1-2m. That's 4m30s on average. You are not waiting long enough, unless you only care about yourself, and are just announcing for bragging or to throw off "you didn't even announce it!" drama. Anyone after 5m, tough luck. But yeah, when I was on mateus, I still had complainers. But now I'm on Tonberry/Valefor and everything is gravy. And we don't even bother with shouting LOL, only pf. You just aren't waiting long enough.

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If only...

NA servers have a more or less agreed upon rule. You drop everything you're doing and get to that hunt the moment it's called or you won't make any non-Stormblood hunt. I've seen less early pullers on Cactuar, but Balmung certainly didn't wait long. Pulls usually happen within two minutes, though it does depend on the server how patient people are.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Now people pull extremely early.

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When hunts were show cased it was always set up a first come first serve. There is no such thing as early pulling, hunts were not meant for an entire server to kill it. If people wait, that is their choice. If a group comes along with enough people to kill it, they have every right too. If you want to participate in hunts go out and hunt them. Its "toxic" to "cry" about missing out if you wasn't out there looking. It's "toxic" to think you are entitled to participate. It is also "toxic" to make others wait. Not everyone wants to sit at a hunt mob for 20-30 min while the whole server is otw.

People have other stuff they want to do, or are waiting for the hunt mob to be dead because it is disrupting their game play. Hunt mobs appear all over, and tend to be in leve ques locations, as well as gathering nodes. Not all players this effect are maxed out. Newbies are effected to by the random hunt mob in their quest area.
I would say it's toxic to make those players wait. I recall a newbie in the NN saying they died to an A rank by morby bay dry docks while trying to get to the light house. A rank was sitting on the path, no one came to kill it and they died trying to go around it. Their home point was in swift perch.

There's a mount for this now?

Brb, early pulling

Let's stress this very important point again - relaying hunts and waiting on other people is something you choose to do but are not obligated to do. If you can solo a hunt, you may do that and no one has the right to complain about it going by the ToS.

I've been hunting for a while now and am a member of about half a dozen hunt linkshells. Here's my personal experience on the matter - 'early pull' is cried out whenever someone didn't get full credit. Like said before, we can wait about 10 minutes and they'd still complain about it if they took longer to arrive. That is not to say no one ever pulls on arrival, and all those linkshells frown upon such behavior. But from my experience, people who call 'early pulls':
1. Don't actually scout, let alone try to spawn things, but wait leisurely for the relay.
2. Take their time getting to an ARR hunt or even an HW hunt. I have seen people finish high level crafts; I have seen people complete cutscenes and quests; people looking for 2/3 hunt targets before they get themselves over there.
Why should two dozen people wait on that if those two dozen people show you could've gotten there in time?
3. Have seen the spawning attempts broadcast extensively in the linkshells, know where to be at what time, are aware an S rank has good chances of being spawned... and still do nothing and complain about being late.

Think about the relay message as your queue popping. If you take too long to respond, you're going to miss it. You're going to have to wait in queue again. DPS queue is my S rank metaphor. And yeah sitting there waiting for it to pop without doing anything can be annoying and boring. But if you enter a cutscene while queued, especially on a different class, you know you might miss it. That's all there is to it.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

People have other stuff they want to do, or are waiting for the hunt mob to be dead because it is disrupting their game play. Hunt mobs appear all over, and tend to be in leve ques locations, as well as gathering nodes. Not all players this effect are maxed out. Newbies are effected to by the random hunt mob in their quest area.
I would say it's toxic to make those players wait. I recall a newbie in the NN saying they died to an A rank by morby bay dry docks while trying to get to the light house. A rank was sitting on the path, no one came to kill it and they died trying to go around it. Their home point was in swift perch.

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I was killed by the South Shroud A rank on my BLM... 45 quest? And had my FC level 60s kill it for me. That hunt mark went Missing on the tracker that day, I imagine, lmao. Similarly I spawned Nandi, frigging Nandi, on a 40-something gatherer. Died to it, naturally, had an FC mate call in the troops. When you stop to think about it like that, hunts are actually a pretty obnoxious experience and I know a friend of a friend quit the game because they died to an A rank on a level 10.
But what can we expect, this forum wants ARR hunts to be level 70...

I think it's funny. Complain about early pulling and stuff , but did you find it OP ?
How can you know it's a early pull , sometimes you wait a long time 10+ and nobody comes. You kill it and suddenly a army comes crying about a early pull.

Sometimes people are not even searching for the hunt. I came across the same A rank for 2 hours straight. I am not hunting , just a gatherer on the road. So i decide to call right away when i spotted it so even after 2 hours nobody came. Even i called it even more then once. So I decide to kill it with a group of friends.
So it's down and a group of 8 comes , sending me tells like. *nice job early puller blacklist*. Funny it was standing there for 2 hours....

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Originally Posted by ShadowHunterrX

How can you know it's a early pull , sometimes you wait a long time 10+ and nobody comes. You kill it and suddenly a army comes crying about a early pull.

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They see you rollin', they hatin'

The toxicity was present long before the tiger achievement was born

They should just let the Centurio Tiger be bought with those hunt mark logs. That way you can do hunts independently if you like (but not earn as many seals) or do it as a group if you happen upon an S or help spawn it.

The issue of early pulling can easily be mitigated through fight design. I think that hunts should have more health and have multiple phases in order to allow people sufficient time to get there. Also, credit should be easier to earn, parties shouldn't be required to get full credit, only to kill the thing.

Oh, and ARR and HW hunts need to be overhauled and be given the same or similar rewards as the SB hunts.

The problem isnt early pulling, the issue is that the fights can be zerged very quickly, and credit can be difficult to get if you arrive late.

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

They should just let the Centurio Tiger be bought with those hunt mark logs. That way you can do hunts independently if you like (but not earn as many seals) or do it as a group if you happen upon an S or help spawn it.

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The tiger is a long-term goal, much like the mentor horse and what Fenrir used to be, I am all for adding another mount in exchange for hunt mark logs (see Wyvern), but the tiger should remain as a long-term reward. Is a number of hunts needed a bit extreme? yes, but the concept behind its implementation is very valid.

Once there's more than 20 people at an ARR S rank, you start to get a lower & lower chance at full credit.

A bigger gripe I have is when I get accused of an early pull when we've been standing around for 5+ minutes, and you THINK it's an early pull because it was just relayed to your hunt LS in the last 30 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Doki

Once there's more than 20 people at an ARR S rank, you start to get a lower & lower chance at full credit.

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Which is why one tries to join a group for all the hunts - in a group everyone gets credit according to what the group as a whole accomplished, making it much easier to get full credit.

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A bigger gripe I have is when I get accused of an early pull when we've been standing around for 5+ minutes, and you THINK it's an early pull because it was just relayed to your hunt LS in the last 30 seconds.

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Yeah, that can get ridiculous. I remember once when the Behemoth FATE had spawned, and people were waiting patiently for everyone to get there. It wasn't pulled until 10-15 minutes after the FATE had spawned and the first calls had gone out - and there was STILL a person complaining about an early pull.

To the did you find it crowd: Yes, I regularly find A ranks and post them to various linkshells.

It's mostly the ARR/HW S ranks that this applies to, the ones that spawn very infrequently that people have outside of the game timers that other players don't have (that are probably against the TOS).

Anything over 5 minutes and I have no sympathy, but when you drop everything to get to a hunt and it's been dead for a while, that is where I have my issues. Especially when people starting going to a zone and teleporting starts to take more and more time.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Yes, I regularly find A ranks and post them to various linkshells.

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A ranks are borderline farmable and really aren't the weak link of this achievement. I have close to 1K of those but not even 300 S ranks just because it takes so damn long for the S ranks to spawn.

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It's mostly the ARR/HW S ranks that this applies to, the ones that spawn very infrequently that people have outside of the game timers that other players don't have (that are probably against the TOS).

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Pray tell how would that be against the ToS?

As for people talking about credit, it's enough to tag the S ranks in order to get a tick on the achievement.

I doubt it is because of the Mount being added. In HW we had a particular hunt group on Leviathan that would pull early, reset them so there friends could get credit, etc...
So it was toxic before this

The achievement and this toxicity you speak of have almost no connection whatsoever. This has been happening since Hunts were added.

Didn't see such an uptick in my last couple of days on Balmung prior to taking a free transfer off during SB early access, and haven't really seen such a thing happening on Zalera. Now there was mountains of salt early on when I moved because Zalera natives took significantly longer to get to hunts or would wait a lot longer than the Balmung/Gilga refugees were accustomed to. Over time, there's been what I'd call a meeting in the middle, where the transfers became a little more patient and natives started getting into gear a little quicker. That would've happened regardless of the achievements being added or not.