The reason why PVP gives XP and any such rewards useful (to a degree) in PVE

It's to encourage people who normally aren't into PVP for its own sake to pvp. reduce queue times.

I know myself and most of my friends would never touch pvp if they couldn't use it to help them improve their character in some way for PVE.

Sure some people would pvp for it's own sake, but by removing pve rewards from pvp you're drastically reducing the number of people who care, and SE wants more people to do more of their content.

woah, i had no idea! :O

thanks!

Well, this is a weight off my mind.

Consider my mind blown!

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

Well, this is a weight off my mind.

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Originally Posted by Tint

woah, i had no idea! :O

thanks!

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Originally Posted by Pence

Consider my mind blown!

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sarcastic or not, a lot of people have been asking for the removal of said rewards, with out fully understanding the context behind them.

they tired of pvp "bots" and afk'ers.

i play fps pvp games like overwatch, which the only reward is cosmetic items from loot boxes. yet see the same issues. bots/afk'ers.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

i play fps pvp games like overwatch, which the only reward is cosmetic items from loot boxes. yet see the same issues. bots/afk'ers.

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Well, I've been playing MOBAs for a while and didn't see those issues.

The issues there revolved around:"This game sucks, surrender @20" because people lost their lane, sometimes coupled with standing at the start flinging insults at the jungler >_>

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

sarcastic or not, a lot of people have been asking for the removal of said rewards, with out fully understanding the context behind them.

they tired of pvp "bots" and afk'ers.

i play fps pvp games like overwatch, which the only reward is cosmetic items from loot boxes. yet see the same issues. bots/afk'ers.

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And also people behaving poorly...

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

sarcastic or not, a lot of people have been asking for the removal of said rewards, with out fully understanding the context behind them.

they tired of pvp "bots" and afk'ers.

i play fps pvp games like overwatch, which the only reward is cosmetic items from loot boxes. yet see the same issues. bots/afk'ers.

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They do know the context behind them...they're willing to trade their queue times for enjoyment, who wouldn't?

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, I've been playing MOBAs for a while and didn't see those issues.

The issues there revolved around:"This game sucks, surrender @20" because people lost their lane, sometimes coupled with standing at the start flinging insults at the jungler >_>

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That's pretty much what happens in Frontlines when any other team reaches 1000 points and your team doesn't.

Eh, offering xp in PVP is incentive for those who wouldn't try it normally to try it however when said incentive allows players to AFK and still gain credit it means the incentive isn't working as intended.

What good is reducing queue times if those who want competition end up with players who will just afk for the free xp? If anything it just makes those who originally would want to do PVP for PVP not do it because they don't want to queue in with PVE doing PVP just for afk xp meaning that the system which encouraged PVE to try PVP is now discouraging those who want to do PVP from doing PVP.

The results end up being the opposite of what they had intended, now you just have those who wanted to do PVP not do it anymore because they get tired of the PVE's that queue just for xp.

Worse still, is there is no real way to adjust current PVP in Frontlines modes to go off a proper "participation" system compared to how bots act.

If we want to set it to a certain damage threshold, it ruins any chance players have to earn good exp if they do any sort of scouting or those who camp home bases to discourage those same scouting players. It would also inevitably result in players, likely healers and tanks, losing EXP from just dying too often and spending too much time running from spawn.

Besides, the bots are already programmed to follow players and engage targets. They'd still get EXP.

So, what then? Can only play PVP modes for EXP up to five times a day?

They should just make PvP give a large, but once-a-day EXP bonus similar to the leveling roulette.

Being able to grind classes without actually participating in PvE seemed awkward to me in the first place.

I miss the old pvp , with the gear and skills .
I miss the time when pvp was a separate thing with no links to pve.

But that is just my feelings on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, I've been playing MOBAs for a while and didn't see those issues.

The issues there revolved around:"This game sucks, surrender @20" because people lost their lane, sometimes coupled with standing at the start flinging insults at the jungler >_>

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moba are a different beast. thats typically 2v2 1v1.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

sarcastic or not, a lot of people have been asking for the removal of said rewards, with out fully understanding the context behind them.

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oh, i do understand that they removed PvE content from this patch (Eureka, 2 Dungeons) to bring a new PvP map, and the only way to make sure this map isn't basically dead on arrival is because they bait the people who wanted new PvE content into the PvP, because there are simply not enough people who actually like to play PvP.

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Originally Posted by Tint

oh, i do understand that they removed PvE content from this patch (Eureka, 2 Dungeons) to bring a new PvP map, and the only way to make sure this map isn't basically dead on arrival is because they bait the people who wanted new PvE content into the PvP, because there are simply not enough people who actually like to play PvP.

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By map you mean an entirely new piece of competitive content right? This content has more similarities in playstyle to lords of verminion than feast or frontlines

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

By map you mean an entirely new piece of competitive content right? This content has more similarities in playstyle to lords of verminion than feast or frontlines

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Wait is it going to play like Iron Grip: Warlord or something?

4.0 pvp is shit, exp should stay away from it etc. Better have a small, core and loyal community than having a big, liquid community that needs to be pampered. That's how you make good business

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

4.0 pvp is shit, exp should stay away from it etc. Better have a small, core and loyal community than having a big, liquid community that needs to be pampered. That's how you make good business

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lol I love 4.0 PVP and its a lot more balanced than the mess which was pre 4.0 pvp. Having gear and level not matter is common sense for balance, and having a seperate set of pvp abilities is the same. I especially love how pvp isnt plauged by the skill bloat which infests pve at max level.

The XP isn't the issue. The problem is the bots and the lack of any effort from SE to remove them.

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

lol I love 4.0 PVP and its a lot more balanced than the mess which was pre 4.0 pvp. Having gear and level not matter is common sense for balance, and having a seperate set of pvp abilities is the same. I especially love how pvp isnt plauged by the skill bloat which infests pve at max level.

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Let me stop you right there.

• You say skill bloat, but it was literally your same kit from PvE - Not all of which you needed, so IF you wanted to make a PvP hotbar (which there was even a function for) you could remove the skills less needed for any of the 6-7 PvP skills. But apparently people didn't want to do that. . .
• Then there's the clear advantage ranged currently has over melee because they had most if not all cc skills removed, then selectively given back to some (just look at NIN). I can't stress enough the difference melee cc made.
• THEN there's the overpowering of healers: Foul is a 4500 hit. Cure 2 is 5000. A Regen is more potent than a Heated Split and Heated Slug Shot without ammo (1500 per tick). Shields exist. OGCD heals too. When healers can literally erase the highest single hit, or even total amount of combo damage, that's a bit ridiculous.
• MCH is the one "pet" job that doesn't have its pet at all. AST does not have access to Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect, making them some odd type of healer when compared to WHM and SCH (they were slightly OP before, but not unbeatable.)
• Tanks just aren't tanky.
• Come Tuesday, the "support" jobs won't even be able to restore MP or TP to the party.

PvP before 4.0 wasn't perfect, but it was a LOT more balanced than what we have now.

XP only became an issue when it attracted people that otherwise wouldn't PvP AND who would exploit it by not cooperating with their team, whether that meant blatantly afking, or not wanting to learn what to do because they were "just here for the XP". Why anyone considered this tolerable is beyond me; I've said before, would it be okay for a regular PvPer to show up to a trial or raid and openly refuse to cooperate or learn the fight because they were "just here for the [reward]"? Worse than that, you have people wanting to cash in on XP from a competitive mode, yet they have no competitive spirit whatsoever. "Oh no, we missed the first ice/I got KOed immediately in a Feast match. Guess it's GG. AFK at base. . ."

No, get up and fight. Did they get more points from ice? Get those points back from their ass. Got KOed? Dust off, play smarter, and take down the guy that got you. It's Player vs Player. If you have no will to fight, no will to even try, you will get run over, and no one's going to care. Does that sound toxic? It's not. It's competition. Have all the fun you like, but be ready to fight, and fight hard. You're the damn Warrior of Light. It's what you do best.

All in all, XP is nice for the people leveling that perhaps are interested in PvP. No need to wait for endgame, and they can enjoy PvP and still progress. It's those who would willingly exploit this at endgame that make it an issue, and it's not okay.

In other news, water is wet, and people die if they are killed.

How many threads are you going to start on this subject? And why do you keep posting them in general and not pvp? Why can't you just respond within a thread you created instead of starting another one?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...here-was-no-XP

Xp should only be granted to the winning team. Work for it, just like you do with fates and dungeons.

I've played pvp in this game since the beginning. I've experienced the long queues with real players and pvpers who want to be there. I've experienced the fast queues with mostly bots or people just leveling and not caring about the game. I would still vote to remove exp from pvp.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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Any controller player could tell you what a bloody mess it was to play your job with the added PVP skills mingled into your hotbars. Most wouldn't use them because of the bloat being way too much.

And the complaints that healers are grossly overpowered ignores a few details. MP on spells is much, much higher than PVE, and if you deal with any sort of coordination from opponents, players just melt under the damage once we've run out of cooldowns. Plus, you're a healer who actually heals. Damage output is limited on healers in PVP, and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

[...] and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

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Gee, I wonder why!

Please, use common sense. Why do you think they're primary targets? Because they are weak? Hell no. Because they're extremely powerful and thus valuable targets to take out, much like Battle Fevers.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

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These days, AFKers feel like less of an issue then bots, and the latter are less likely to be kicked due to a surprisingly large number of people not being able to distinguish between them and real players.

They're not much more useful then AFKers, either, because they just feed kills to the opposing teams.

I only do PvP for the xp (after getting the Ginga mount, of course, as I'm sure most others do). It's a necessary evil at this point. If they come up with a better system to speed up dps queue times elsewhere, we'd be happy to leave PvP to the dedicated. Until then, enjoy the frequently bad teamwork. "Please look forward to it."

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Any controller player could tell you what a bloody mess it was to play your job with the added PVP skills mingled into your hotbars. Most wouldn't use them because of the bloat being way too much.

And the complaints that healers are grossly overpowered ignores a few details. MP on spells is much, much higher than PVE, and if you deal with any sort of coordination from opponents, players just melt under the damage once we've run out of cooldowns. Plus, you're a healer who actually heals. Damage output is limited on healers in PVP, and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

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I AM a controller user by the way, AND I play MCH - a job a lot of people were put off by the "complexity" of, and I had not one issue with "too many buttons". I say this knowing that of the 2 general hotbars I ran, and the one with my PvP skills, I had enough redundancies (for quick access) that IF I'd gotten rid of them, I easily could've fit everything on 2 hotbars with little impact. I even proved this with images once, and would gladly provide them again if needed.

Given that healers can so easily erase the damage of one person (technically just overhealing it) that's WHY it takes coordinated burst from players. It used to be that most DPS could solo all but a competent healer; now, you really don't even need to be skilled at it to do that. And THAT is the bigger issue. People didn't want to learn PvP as it was when it did require skill to be good. Now it's "balanced" and more fun because things are broken or slanted enough in favor of one role over another, and it's clear SE's attempts to further balance only do the opposite. You say high MP cost for healing spells? Well enjoy not getting MP anymore cause the support jobs won't even be able to do that come Tuesday.

As for AFKers, sad to say but as people got their XP and abandoned PvP, it's thankfully become less of an issue. Yet there are still ill-informed or lazy people in Shatter that consider "base guarding" to be a contribution to the team, when it largely isn't. Or the guy in the Feast that rushes in ignoring marks and tries to 1v4 the other team and you can't tell him not to because you can't chat, and "fall back" is apparently too hard to understand.

I say this from being a long-time PvPer in this game, but an overall lack of knowledge, and lack of required skill combined with repeated poor decision making and direction completely ignorant of player feedback is doing more harm than good.

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Originally Posted by Jas710

I only do PvP for the xp (after getting the Ginga mount, of course, as I'm sure most others do). It's a necessary evil at this point. If they come up with a better system to speed up dps queue times elsewhere, we'd be happy to leave PvP to the dedicated. Until then, enjoy the frequently bad teamwork. "Please look forward to it."

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So, a necessary evil for XP, yet you won't make the effort to improve yourself or your teamwork?

Okay, enjoy less XP and a longer grind, I guess. Who's really hindering who there?

P.S. Most other content gives more XP, even if the wait is longer. But as I said, enjoy less XP and a longer grind.

Pvp should be for people who want to pvp... not for people who want exp... and from the sound of it people are just using it currently as an easy exp exploit which im sure makes it less enjoyable for people who want to actually pvp

I only do frontlines so my opinion is only on that but the introduction of xp got me to do pretty much nothing but frontlines, it got me 2 grand company mounts and the 2 ADS mounts out of it but I tend to mostly heal in frontlines on my astro and swap to a job i want xp for when the match is almost over. But Maelstrom has just been destroying on primal data center for months now so I suppose I'm not jaded into thinking we are losing just because people are in it for xp. Bots are pretty annoying though but its pretty hilarious when in 8v8v8 matches all the flames are bots and just sit there and we sneak up behind them and hold their base for the entire match.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So, a necessary evil for XP, yet you won't make the effort to improve yourself or your teamwork?

Okay, enjoy less XP and a longer grind, I guess. Who's really hindering who there?

P.S. Most other content gives more XP, even if the wait is longer. But as I said, enjoy less XP and a longer grind.

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Wasn't open to debate. Just stating facts. Whether or not the xp js equivalent to other means is irrelevant. I'd rather put up with three lousy shatter roulettes where loser groups keep spreading themselves thin/not paying attention to the big ice b.s., than wait 20+ minutes for a dungeon to pop.

The only problem I see with the whole "no sh*t healers are OP" is that we don't see healers over running PVP. Even in Feast.

My opinion here, but I think coordinating teams to focus down players is just proper communication. If a healer couldn't save a player in that kind of situation (or more realistically, give said player the seconds needed to sprint away), then why have healers at all?

PVP is still a niche thing, but I fully agree with SE's decision to just make everything fully seperated from PVE, evennif just from a balancing perspective.

I don't foresee any reason to nerf healer's heal potency unless Dueling goes from a goofy time waster to a ranked PVP mode, as right now, everything about Frontlines or Feast is built on the idea of parties, and thus teamwork.

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Originally Posted by ArkNova

.... Bots are pretty annoying though but its pretty hilarious when in 8v8v8 matches all the flames are bots and just sit there and we sneak up behind them and hold their base for the entire match.

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It's really insane to Freelance in Primal and land in Flames since you can tell a whole party will just follow one player around and only attack when something get's close enough. I'm a little surprised we've not started to see players funnel bots into pinch points.

Or maybe they do during those wild moments when Flames suddenly tears it up...