The reason why PVP gives XP and any such rewards useful (to a degree) in PVE

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

lol I love 4.0 PVP and its a lot more balanced than the mess which was pre 4.0 pvp. Having gear and level not matter is common sense for balance, and having a seperate set of pvp abilities is the same. I especially love how pvp isnt plauged by the skill bloat which infests pve at max level.

Let me stop you right there.

• You say skill bloat, but it was literally your same kit from PvE - Not all of which you needed, so IF you wanted to make a PvP hotbar (which there was even a function for) you could remove the skills less needed for any of the 6-7 PvP skills. But apparently people didn't want to do that. . .
• Then there's the clear advantage ranged currently has over melee because they had most if not all cc skills removed, then selectively given back to some (just look at NIN). I can't stress enough the difference melee cc made.
• THEN there's the overpowering of healers: Foul is a 4500 hit. Cure 2 is 5000. A Regen is more potent than a Heated Split and Heated Slug Shot without ammo (1500 per tick). Shields exist. OGCD heals too. When healers can literally erase the highest single hit, or even total amount of combo damage, that's a bit ridiculous.
• MCH is the one "pet" job that doesn't have its pet at all. AST does not have access to Diurnal/Nocturnal Sect, making them some odd type of healer when compared to WHM and SCH (they were slightly OP before, but not unbeatable.)
• Tanks just aren't tanky.
• Come Tuesday, the "support" jobs won't even be able to restore MP or TP to the party.

PvP before 4.0 wasn't perfect, but it was a LOT more balanced than what we have now.

XP only became an issue when it attracted people that otherwise wouldn't PvP AND who would exploit it by not cooperating with their team, whether that meant blatantly afking, or not wanting to learn what to do because they were "just here for the XP". Why anyone considered this tolerable is beyond me; I've said before, would it be okay for a regular PvPer to show up to a trial or raid and openly refuse to cooperate or learn the fight because they were "just here for the [reward]"? Worse than that, you have people wanting to cash in on XP from a competitive mode, yet they have no competitive spirit whatsoever. "Oh no, we missed the first ice/I got KOed immediately in a Feast match. Guess it's GG. AFK at base. . ."

No, get up and fight. Did they get more points from ice? Get those points back from their ass. Got KOed? Dust off, play smarter, and take down the guy that got you. It's Player vs Player. If you have no will to fight, no will to even try, you will get run over, and no one's going to care. Does that sound toxic? It's not. It's competition. Have all the fun you like, but be ready to fight, and fight hard. You're the damn Warrior of Light. It's what you do best.

All in all, XP is nice for the people leveling that perhaps are interested in PvP. No need to wait for endgame, and they can enjoy PvP and still progress. It's those who would willingly exploit this at endgame that make it an issue, and it's not okay.

[Fynlar]

In other news, water is wet, and people die if they are killed.

[Gravton]

How many threads are you going to start on this subject? And why do you keep posting them in general and not pvp? Why can't you just respond within a thread you created instead of starting another one?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...here-was-no-XP

Xp should only be granted to the winning team. Work for it, just like you do with fates and dungeons.

[KaplanHomahru]

I've played pvp in this game since the beginning. I've experienced the long queues with real players and pvpers who want to be there. I've experienced the fast queues with mostly bots or people just leveling and not caring about the game. I would still vote to remove exp from pvp.

[Ametrine]

Snip

Any controller player could tell you what a bloody mess it was to play your job with the added PVP skills mingled into your hotbars. Most wouldn't use them because of the bloat being way too much.

And the complaints that healers are grossly overpowered ignores a few details. MP on spells is much, much higher than PVE, and if you deal with any sort of coordination from opponents, players just melt under the damage once we've run out of cooldowns. Plus, you're a healer who actually heals. Damage output is limited on healers in PVP, and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

[Zojha]

[...] and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

Gee, I wonder why!

Please, use common sense. Why do you think they're primary targets? Because they are weak? Hell no. Because they're extremely powerful and thus valuable targets to take out, much like Battle Fevers.

[KageTokage]

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

These days, AFKers feel like less of an issue then bots, and the latter are less likely to be kicked due to a surprisingly large number of people not being able to distinguish between them and real players.

They're not much more useful then AFKers, either, because they just feed kills to the opposing teams.

[Jas710]

I only do PvP for the xp (after getting the Ginga mount, of course, as I'm sure most others do). It's a necessary evil at this point. If they come up with a better system to speed up dps queue times elsewhere, we'd be happy to leave PvP to the dedicated. Until then, enjoy the frequently bad teamwork. "Please look forward to it."

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Any controller player could tell you what a bloody mess it was to play your job with the added PVP skills mingled into your hotbars. Most wouldn't use them because of the bloat being way too much.

And the complaints that healers are grossly overpowered ignores a few details. MP on spells is much, much higher than PVE, and if you deal with any sort of coordination from opponents, players just melt under the damage once we've run out of cooldowns. Plus, you're a healer who actually heals. Damage output is limited on healers in PVP, and outside of ice, nodes, etc when they are up, healers are the primary targets.

As for AFKers, just kick em. Report them. To be honest, I must play at different hours, because I really don't see players give up like suggested very often, at least in Frontlines, but that may be from Adders and Mealstrom having such an aggressive rivalry on the Primal DC.

I AM a controller user by the way, AND I play MCH - a job a lot of people were put off by the "complexity" of, and I had not one issue with "too many buttons". I say this knowing that of the 2 general hotbars I ran, and the one with my PvP skills, I had enough redundancies (for quick access) that IF I'd gotten rid of them, I easily could've fit everything on 2 hotbars with little impact. I even proved this with images once, and would gladly provide them again if needed.

Given that healers can so easily erase the damage of one person (technically just overhealing it) that's WHY it takes coordinated burst from players. It used to be that most DPS could solo all but a competent healer; now, you really don't even need to be skilled at it to do that. And THAT is the bigger issue. People didn't want to learn PvP as it was when it did require skill to be good. Now it's "balanced" and more fun because things are broken or slanted enough in favor of one role over another, and it's clear SE's attempts to further balance only do the opposite. You say high MP cost for healing spells? Well enjoy not getting MP anymore cause the support jobs won't even be able to do that come Tuesday.

As for AFKers, sad to say but as people got their XP and abandoned PvP, it's thankfully become less of an issue. Yet there are still ill-informed or lazy people in Shatter that consider "base guarding" to be a contribution to the team, when it largely isn't. Or the guy in the Feast that rushes in ignoring marks and tries to 1v4 the other team and you can't tell him not to because you can't chat, and "fall back" is apparently too hard to understand.

I say this from being a long-time PvPer in this game, but an overall lack of knowledge, and lack of required skill combined with repeated poor decision making and direction completely ignorant of player feedback is doing more harm than good.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

I only do PvP for the xp (after getting the Ginga mount, of course, as I'm sure most others do). It's a necessary evil at this point. If they come up with a better system to speed up dps queue times elsewhere, we'd be happy to leave PvP to the dedicated. Until then, enjoy the frequently bad teamwork. "Please look forward to it."

So, a necessary evil for XP, yet you won't make the effort to improve yourself or your teamwork?

Okay, enjoy less XP and a longer grind, I guess. Who's really hindering who there?

P.S. Most other content gives more XP, even if the wait is longer. But as I said, enjoy less XP and a longer grind.