4.1 and us healers

What changes are you excited for? What are you hoping happens?

I wasn't even aware something about 4.1 came out..

A revert of the SCH Adlo/Succor MP costs.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A revert of the SCH Adlo/Succor MP costs.

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This. Lawd. This.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

A revert of the SCH Adlo/Succor MP costs.

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Did they used to be cheaper I assume? I tend to try not to use them except for shielding or an actual group heal because my mana dies when I need the shielding.

WHM PI and Confession... confession stacks should last longer or have higher potency at 1-2 stacks. PI would ideally be useful outside of O3S/O4S but niche skills aren't necessarily a bad thing. Have Lilies be a resource worth thinking about without making them RNG again- as it is they're not worth thinking much about unless I need to intentionally overheal with a Cure I so I can have a flower for Divine Benison. Really sub-optimal and irritating, to say the least. I either have skills off CD or I don't, I know CDR is kind of a BIG DEAL but it doesn't feel beneficial in practice.
AST Noct shields getting the slightest of nerfs, either potency or cost. Especially the Aspected Benefic version. No bat smacks, just a small slap on the wrist.
SCH pet AI responsiveness improved, Selene ability buffs/reworks, and maybe a very slight cost reduction on Adlo and Succor. Not enough to make them spammable again but enough that less optimal players won't go OOM after a few casts. Seems a tad too punishing even if SCH is meant to be the "thinking player's healer".

I don't even know if I want Square to touch Healers anymore.. If they do change Healers I expect it to be an awful change.

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Originally Posted by Foxkid

Did they used to be cheaper I assume? I tend to try not to use them except for shielding or an actual group heal because my mana dies when I need the shielding.

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Relative to MP pools, their cost has almost doubled since pre-SB.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Have Lilies be a resource worth thinking about without making them RNG again- as it is they're not worth thinking much about unless I need to intentionally overheal with a Cure I so I can have a flower for Divine Benison. Really sub-optimal and irritating, to say the least. I either have skills off CD or I don't, I know CDR is kind of a BIG DEAL but it doesn't feel beneficial in practice.

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They binned the original Spear card because cooldown reduction was so weak.

I still think lilies should give a speed buff. Not as much as Presence of Mind, maybe only like 5% at 3 or something, but that would probably give us more to think about. Does he REALLY need a shield or can I just heal and get 2 lilies rather than 1? Should I use Assize now or will the speed buff give me more damage before it's absolutely needed? Those sorts of questions.

It will give us a reason to want to build up cures and play into the 'pure healer' hole they dug for us.

Scholar needs a lot of love. I hope they find a way to make the entire class design more intuitive. It's functional now sort of but the abilities don't mesh well or even make sense like Dissipation and Deployment Tactics or the fact Selene has always been unfavored as not quite complete and utter trash but close. Astro and WHM both feel very logical and straightforward by contrast. I hope they bring Scholar the same treatment Bard received. New and improved but mostly improved.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

Not enough to make them spammable again but enough that less optimal players won't go OOM after a few casts. Seems a tad too punishing even if SCH is meant to be the "thinking player's healer".

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Adloquium, when it does not crit, heals for a total of 600 potency, which is 100 potency less than White Mages Cure II and 50 potency less than Astrologian's Benefic II. Scholars also have no trait that would give extra effect to Adloquium (free cast for Cure II from White Mages or guaranteed critical for Astrologian). More, White Mages get lillies on top of everything. And even MORE...the 300 "healing" in the form of shield can be wasted if the target will not be hit in the next 30sec.

There is absolutely no reason why Adloquium shouldn't cost around the level of Cure II. Succor around the level of Medica, maybe even a bit less, but that'd be a stretch in higher content. Especially since Scholars are worse in mana regeneration now than they were (and the cake goes to White Mage).


As for cooldown reduction, it is a powerful effect. The Spear sucked simply because it had vastly better competition, not to mention, it was an outside reduction. In the time The Spear was active, the person could have all their cooldowns...on cooldown. So it was often wasted. But lillies will be there the whole fight until you actually use them and they will affect the relevant abilities certainly. If you think that 12sec reduction on Assize is irrelevant then clearly you didn't bother to do the math.

In a 10min battle, you would cast normal Assize 10 times. With three lillies, you would "cast" it 12.5 times. That's 3750 potency healing and damage instead of 3000, and 125% mana regeneration instead of 100% mana regeneration. You can cast 25% more spells within the same 10 minutes, just on that. And there is zero reason why you couldn't have three lillies for every cast of Assize, even without having to go bonkers over it. In normal dungeons with normal mobs, there are times when I end up generating six or seven lillies over the span of a minute, just cause the tanks gather multiple hard-hitting mobs. And boss fights offer enough damage to be healed through.

CDR is not a powerful effect with our current boss patterns.. What..?

You literally plan your cooldowns around a fight which makes the randomness of CDR useless..

Its nice in dungeons but then 6-7 Lilies in the span of a minute in a dungeon.. Wouldn't the 6-7 gcds be better spent since Tetra, Bene, Aslyum, Regen, Holy (Stuns) and maybe a Cure per pull is enough for Dungeons..

As above, Spear's problem in raids was that people tend to pick up a very specific cooldown rotation. For example in O4S, you could throw all the cooldown reduction at me that you wanted, I simply wouldn't use it as pretty much everything is set in stone.

As far as changes I'd like to see:

AST: Fix the damn button bloat on cards already.

WHM: Some means to generate Lilies from DPS, a 100% rate from Stone 3 would likely be excessive, but as much as I hate RNG, 30% or so would work well in this case IMO.

SCH: MP values for Adlo and Succor would go a long way, I also still think that Bane's nerf should be reverted for SCH TBH.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Its nice in dungeons but then 6-7 Lilies in the span of a minute in a dungeon.. Wouldn't the 6-7 gcds be better spent since Tetra, Bene, Aslyum, Regen, Holy (Stuns) and maybe a Cure per pull is enough for Dungeons..

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When was the last time you made several random groups through a roulette?! Do you really think that it's possible to make do with that every time?! Not to mention, I myself am not decked out with the "best" gear. Add to that a tank that can get from 100% to 20% in a span of five seconds every so often when the mobs use their burst skills, and no, cooldowns alone will not do anything when the fight takes about a minute or more. And Benediction have a long enough cooldown to not be available more than once each few pulls.

Holy can stun for a total of seven seconds I believe (4, 2 then 1), and the mobs WILL get hits after the second and third cast before you can do anything again. They will also get hits in before the first triggers, even with Swiftcast. It mitigates some damage, but in a greater scope, it will not replace actual healing.


I'm tired of people using premade, greatly overgeared parties as the "basis" for everything that is related to dungeons. The actual game that most people play is not difficult, but it's not nearly as "neat and tidy" as you would make it believe. If I checked the forums before starting the game, and if I had no brain of my own to use, I'd think that I do something terribly wrong, just cause I actually need to use more than Regen on random encounters in dungeons...

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As above, Spear's problem in raids was that people tend to pick up a very specific cooldown rotation. For example in O4S, you could throw all the cooldown reduction at me that you wanted, I simply wouldn't use it as pretty much everything is set in stone.

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But Spears were random and not guaranteed. Ask yourself this. If all your cooldowns had guaranteed 20% reduction in cooldown all throughout the fight, wouldn't you work your rotation around that?! If you would, then cooldown reduction in the form of lillies is quite beneficial. Lillies are there and you can plan for them after all.

I am not even that overgeared what my Whm is i312.. You are probably more geared then me..

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I am not even that overgeared what my Whm is i312.. You are probably more geared then me..

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My healers are about ilvl290. I'm going to level other classes before I worry about upgrading their gear.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Adloquium, when it does not crit, heals for a total of 600 potency, which is 100 potency less than White Mages Cure II and 50 potency less than Astrologian's Benefic II. Scholars also have no trait that would give extra effect to Adloquium (free cast for Cure II from White Mages or guaranteed critical for Astrologian). More, White Mages get lillies on top of everything. And even MORE...the 300 "healing" in the form of shield can be wasted if the target will not be hit in the next 30sec.

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But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency. It's also harder to waste and overheal thanks to half of it staying as shield. With DT it's pretty much 300 potency (Medica) AoE heal. Yeah, the cost right now is stupid, but comparing like this doesn't work. It's different spell on different class (MP management, fairy and other mechanic make it use Adlo for different purposes).

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Originally Posted by kikix12

I'm tired of people using premade, greatly overgeared parties as the "basis" for everything that is related to dungeons. The actual game that most people play is not difficult, but it's not nearly as "neat and tidy" as you would make it believe. If I checked the forums before starting the game, and if I had no brain of my own to use, I'd think that I do something terribly wrong, just cause I actually need to use more than Regen on random encounters in dungeons...

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Using the opposite extreme isn't the answer. If anything I more often get those "good" groups where I throw one cure for DB at the beginning of the pull and then 1 or 2 Cure II's after initial Holy spam.


OT: I'm also hoping for some changes to lilies. Thing I'd want the most is a change to DB so it either doesn't require those damn flowers or if it has to eat them then at least scale with them so it's not waste to use it on 3 lilies.
Slight nerf to AST shields and SCH MP cost reduction would be great too.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Especially since Scholars are worse in mana regeneration now than they were (and the cake goes to White Mage).

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This is not actually true. SCH's overall MP economy is a bit crap right now because of the Adlo/Succor/Physick* cost increases, yes, but our actual MP regeneration is higher than it was before even with the Aetherflow nerf to 10%. Lucid and Quicken more than make up the difference - at least at current Piety values; it is possible that later patches will scale our MP pools (and thus Aetherflow's %-based recovery vs Lucid's flat value) up enough that this is no longer true.

*Physick was not actually nerfed, true. However, pre-SB it was an exact clone of Cure (minus the proc) in both potency and MP cost. With SB Cure got a 50p buff, but Physick did not, and they still share the same MP cost.

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Originally Posted by Terkhev

But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency.

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420Hp/840Sp, technically (after accounting for the crit modifier). Except we have no way to guarantee when that will happen, so it's effectively worthless when working out the value/power of the spell for essentially the same reason the original versions of Lillys/Hyper Lightspeed/Quickened Aetherflow were - because we can never plan around it happening.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

But Spears were random and not guaranteed. Ask yourself this. If all your cooldowns had guaranteed 20% reduction in cooldown all throughout the fight, wouldn't you work your rotation around that?! If you would, then cooldown reduction in the form of lillies is quite beneficial. Lillies are there and you can plan for them after all.

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In the case of the O4S example, sadly not for the most part, the need to align Lucid and Thin Air with each Almagest outweighs the benefits that a 20% reduction there would give, the fight is also pretty awful for lily generation due to how periodic the vast majority of tank damage is. O3S would be better though for sure.

I’d also argue that iLvl 290 is actually rather undergeared at this point. There, little excuse to not be 300+ at this point unless it’s your first level 70 ofc. And getting to 300 is an evening or two’s work at worst.

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Originally Posted by Terkhev

But then Adlo can crit and be 900 potency. It's also harder to waste and overheal thanks to half of it staying as shield. With DT it's pretty much 300 potency (Medica) AoE heal. Yeah, the cost right now is stupid, but comparing like this doesn't work. It's different spell on different class (MP management, fairy and other mechanic make it use Adlo for different purposes).

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It may be harder to overheal and waste potency, but on the other hand, it's actually possible to go and waste it entirely. Though, more commonly, some part of the shield is going to be wasted, while some used, when used on a non-tank. Shields on AoE are even worse, actually. It's not even close to a 300 potency Medica. First, you can use Deployment Tactics on yourself. Meaning it's harder to position. Second, its radius is measly 2y. Unless that's actually not true, and I'll be honest here, I can't remember either way, then it can't even work to protect a group from an ultimate, unless the group is well coordinated. No random party ever actually grouped up before ultimate, but quite a lot have spread out or run all around like headless chicken (even running from Sacred Soil and Collective Consciousness...). And other than those specific high-damage, guaranteed hits skills of bosses, even weak shields cast on a party will fall off without doing a thing.

The point is that shields are "potential" health. They have literally only two uses over simply healing. First, they are artificial, unhealable extra HP (if the player have full HP). Second, they can prevent instant death if it's based on raw damage that would exceed someone maximum HP. In every other situation, you would not in any way be less effective by casting a pure, blue heal. While AoE hits are pretty common and it's not a bad thing to have a "HP buffer" on demand as a safety, to prevent a big dip in HP instead of having to react to it, wasting some of that shield is just as common.

As such, both healing and shielding have its pros and cons that pretty much negate each other. There is absolutely zero reason to have Scholars shields cost that much more than superior (in raw potency) heals of both other healers. Especially if you compare it to Aspected Benefic (Noctural), which costs 360 mana less, is instant and creates a 500 potency shield (healing for 200). On a class that DOES have a spammable hi-power heal with a guaranteed-critical trigger from the basic heal.

I'm not talking here about raising the scholars "ceiling". I'm talking about raising the scholars "floor". To a point where that "floor" is around the same level as it is for the other healers. Leveling all three to lvl70 I can say easily that I need to actually get more serious on scholars, optimizing my healing more, which is just tiresome when I need to do it all the time. Can I end up passing the same dungeons without any deaths?! I sure can. But it requires more from me than on the other healers for pretty much no real reaason.

A class that requires you to go "all out" at all times is not fun.

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Originally Posted by Riyshn

(...)but our actual MP regeneration is higher than it was before even with the Aetherflow nerf to 10%. Lucid and Quicken more than make up the difference - at least at current Piety values; it is possible that later patches will scale our MP pools (and thus Aetherflow's %-based recovery vs Lucid's flat value) up enough that this is no longer true.

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Current Piety values are crap. With 277 more piety, my Scholars MP pool is just 277MP larger than that of White Mage. That adds up to exactly 12MP regenerated each three seconds more, 1024MP for White Mage VS 1036 for Scholar. That means that, including the 277MP more than my scholar starts with than my White Mage, it would take 380sec to regenerate enough MP for a single Adloquium more. 6.5min long battle for a single heal more...And to get that extra piety, my Scholar loses 150 spell speed and 167 critical hit. Turning piety into a substat was the worst non-class specific thing this entire update brought. The amount should be significantly cranked up or it should not be at the expense of other stats. As it is, my MP at lvl70 with 286ivl with 1203 piety compared to lvl60, 246ilvl with 670 piety increased by ~32%, while the spells cost increased by ~35% for Physick, Broil II and I guess most other, while by ~70% for Adloquium and Succor.

Though I admit that MP regeneration is actually better now, after adding the numbers. Quite significantly.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

I’d also argue that iLvl 290 is actually rather undergeared at this point. There, little excuse to not be 300+ at this point unless it’s your first level 70 ofc. And getting to 300 is an evening or two’s work at worst.

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It's not undergeared. Rather, it is not overgeared. The excuse is quite simple. I log sporadically, all the while leveling other classes rather than upgrading the ones I have capped.

Sure, I could increase it with stuff from Ala Mhigo easily. Heck. I know someone that would easily make me a full 320ilvl crafted set. But I just see no need for that right now. I'll do it once I actually get the classes I want to lvl70.

Right now, it feels like SCH are struggling the most and it's not hard to see why, just look at this thread. They definitely need some love. I played a lot of SCH back when I started, and would love to go back to playing one, but it just turns me off so hard right now.

SCH could use some tweaks, but it shouldn't go back to how it was in late HW where it was pretty OP.

Maybe I'm not playing SCH to full potential (I don't weave in Miasma II), but I do dps and rarely have MP problems as a SCH.

I'd like to see them put the Spear card back the way it was, because -10~30% cooldown reduction was significantly more useful than yet another tool for flat DPS increase. It's true that it didn't help on the scale of DPS, but DPS isn't everything in this game. I've been trying to 4-man Shinryu on minIL these days, and it's far harder without that cooldown reduction than it was with it. In fact, it may even be impossible simply due to the mana constraints that removing that card effect places on AST. Besides my vaguely infamous obsession with 4-man Shinryu, though, removing cooldown reduction makes various challenge runs simply impossible. Anything that relied on a cooldown being shorter than its base value is now impossible to complete. All those opportunities for cool challenge runs removed, all for the sake of speedrunning battles a few seconds faster on average. A worse trade, I have never seen.

I'd also like to see them give WHMs real control over how to use Lilies. And SCH needs some real love.

I don't think they should be balancing around gimmick challenges. People might run class only, should SE buff classes at 70, too?

I want virus/disable back and changes to the cross skill system. For example in most cases esuna is useless and for this reason, nobody has selected this skill from the cross class pool. But if you go into v4 normal, then you'll need it or people die. Dying because someone made an mistake is fine, but dying because someone hasn't selected an cross class skill is dumb really. The skill should be an class skill for every class again and give us virus/disable back, since those were fun to use and you were less reliant on dd mitigating dmg, either to survive at all or being able to heal less.

It works in statics, but not really in most pug groups imo :(

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Right now, it feels like SCH are struggling the most and it's not hard to see why, just look at this thread. They definitely need some love. I played a lot of SCH back when I started, and would love to go back to playing one, but it just turns me off so hard right now.

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The scholar in HW was a bit more smooth or fun to play, but honestly i don't see scholar struggling at all. He provides raid utility and does a lot of dmg. Imo all healers are pretty good balanced at the moment.

Honestly, I just want SCH to be fun to play again. I'm extremely sad that after three to four years of playing SCH that I am now playing WHM just so things are interesting and smooth gameplay wise. It's not that I don't ever have mp issues or even healing issues. I am fully capable of healing the exact same content or big pulls on WHM and SCH equally, but there is simply something lacking and utterly clunky about SCH that I cannot put my finger on. Maybe its the fact that Adlo costs too much, or maybe the fairy mech just feels odd. But honestly I think it might be our healing kit and having many of our bigger cures gate locked behind aetherflow. Maybe we need one more stack, or maybe quicken aetherflow needs to be more common. I don't know really what it is about SCH, I only know that it isn't fun to play and I will stay WHM until they make SCH a fun class to play once again.

I honestly don't care what they do to SCH just make us an enjoyable class once more.

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Originally Posted by Anselmet

Honestly, I just want SCH to be fun to play again. I'm extremely sad that after three to four years of playing SCH that I am now playing WHM just so things are interesting and smooth gameplay wise. It's not that I don't ever have mp issues or even healing issues. I am fully capable of healing the exact same content or big pulls on WHM and SCH equally, but there is simply something lacking and utterly clunky about SCH that I cannot put my finger on

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That's how I felt about SCH in Heavensward, and still do. Although back then it was stronger, it was still kinda clunky.

You've got the fairy off doing something, and I never got good enough at SCH to fully predict what "something" was going to be. Apparently you can macro it to make it more reliable, but that's a layer of clunkiness right there. There's something inherently wrong about being expected to macro the most basic function of the class to make it perform properly. Then you also have to position it correctly or it won't heal certain people due to range, but doesn't have a way to tell you in game if someone is out of range (unless it's beside you and you're out of range, in which case it likely is as well).

Dissipation and Emergency Tactics are two abilities I never got much use out of, and Dissipation seems even worse now that you're supposed to build up the gauge, which requires having a fairy out. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Emergency Tactics I don't get the use of, since if I want a big heal I can Lustrate/Indom, if someone is at risk of dying I probably am okay with having the shield on them, and if they're not, this is hardly an "emergency" and the fairy (or the other healer) will probably get to it anyway.

Aldo? I honestly think it's so expensive because of the crit effect + deployment being so good. But if you don't get a crit, you're paying through the nose for what you do get. It's very much "hey I won the lottery!" vs "hey I'm too low on MP to buy a ticket because I already lost the lottery 4 times".

That 80% damage reduction on Bane for large pulls really stings and makes it feel like I'm not accomplishing anything on half the pack, although I guess I can spam Miasma II now (how weird is it to spam something that puts up a DoT?). The whole DPS situation doesn't feel very fun compared to what WHM can do. Although WHM does need to be good at that due to its lack of buffs, that doesn't mean the SCH stuff needs to be awkward and unsatisfying to use.

I used to think that SCH just wasn't for me and left it at that, but with so many other people unhappy with it? Well, at least I'm not alone.

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Originally Posted by Tridus

That's how I felt about SCH in Heavensward, and still do. Although back then it was stronger, it was still kinda clunky.

You've got the fairy off doing something, and I never got good enough at SCH to fully predict what "something" was going to be. Apparently you can macro it to make it more reliable, but that's a layer of clunkiness right there.

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I agree, many useful things a SCH can do is helped by macros. But this is not just a job specific issue but a class one. SMNs also suffer from this clunkiness and though I have not touched SMN since HW, at least back then it was worse than SCH. I almost wish that the devs would go in and reprogram the pets so we can have an option to push heal same target as us or have an option to target who has the lowest hp which is the fairy default.

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Dissipation and Emergency Tactics are two abilities I never got much use out of, and Dissipation seems even worse now that you're supposed to build up the gauge, which requires having a fairy out. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Emergency Tactics I don't get the use of, since if I want a big heal I can Lustrate/Indom, if someone is at risk of dying I probably am okay with having the shield on them, and if they're not, this is hardly an "emergency" and the fairy (or the other healer) will probably get to it anyway.

I used to think that SCH just wasn't for me and left it at that, but with so many other people unhappy with it? Well, at least I'm not alone.

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I'll agree that Deployment tactics and Adlo is strong (though I see many SCHs not utilizing this very often) and is prolly why the mp cost is high and it is one tool that I absolutely love about SCH until this very day. As for Emergency Tactics I have a macro for it to smoothly cast it but when the usage of the skill is not as often as it should be. One, a whm and ast have a basic aoe heal spell that can be cast with one button and for less cost making it pointless to use. Two, I only use this skill when my co-healer is dead or I am with another SCH. Does this mean its a bad skill? Not necessarily, but improvements could be made possibly. Its more or less there for when I have no aetherstack or idom is on cool down. Which can be nice when your tank is about die and you can cast adlo as a slightly bigger heal than physick but once again, only used in VERY special circumstances.

And I think that is the issue with sch. We have options but a lot of our kit is used in special circumstances. I feel like I am using all my whm skills, meanwhile I can't remember the last time I used dissipation other than this one time I trolololo'd and fey illumination, largese, dissipated my fairy to see what would happen when I deployed tactic an adlo. It was beautiful fyi.

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Originally Posted by Metsonm

I don't think they should be balancing around gimmick challenges. People might run class only, should SE buff classes at 70, too?

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It's not really balancing around gimmicks, though. Besides the fact that those challenges are no more of a gimmick than anything else in this game, cooldown reduction also helps in other scenarios, and is generally more flexible and useful on general terms. Flat DPS increases do virtually nothing but help people speedclear things faster than ever before, in a game that already has more than enough tools to speedclear. It's kind of like if SQEX decided to completely remove all offensive buffs. You'd probably still be able to clear battles before enrage, but it would feel like crap, right? So when SQEX removed Spear, it was that sort of slap in the face to the non-DPS-centric crowd. It was one of our best tools, and one of the only tools able to reduce any cooldown as necessary, which was hugely useful in various context. In exchange, yet another DPS-increase tool was added to the plethora that were already available.

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Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

I don't even know if I want Square to touch Healers anymore.. If they do change Healers I expect it to be an awful change.

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This. It's incredibly obvious they have no idea what to do with healers of where they want them to go from here. I dread the day they make a new healer...

All I'd want is them doing something for scholar QoL.
Do something for Adloquim and Succor. Whatever it is.
Do something to Dissipation.
Do something with Selene.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This. It's incredibly obvious they have no idea what to do with healers of where they want them to go from here. I dread the day they make a new healer...

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Depressingly, as much as I want to disagree with this, you're likely right =/

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

This. It's incredibly obvious they have no idea what to do with healers of where they want them to go from here. I dread the day they make a new healer...

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I think the issue goes beyond healers themselves (because IMO both WHM and AST are really fun right now) and to the healing mechanics & encounter design side of things. With healers able to bring people from 1HP to full in a few seconds, enemy base attacks hitting like my four year old with a balloon mallet*, and most of the dangerous damage being more tightly scripted than a Marvel movie, there are limits on what can be done in terms of healing mechanics.


Shields in particular are tricky in that environment because while burst healing can get you back up to full after damage, it doesn't work if the first damage hit is lethal. Shields can let you survive what would otherwise kill you, which tips between grossly OP and thus mandatory (because someone without shields can't keep people alive) and not particularly important (if nothing is lethal, AoE healing it up afterward is just effective and mechanically easier).

Combine that with SCH needing more of a rethink than it got, and you're in a bit of a weird situation. I'm definitely not looking forward to another healer class simply because they're having such a hard time getting the three they do have right. What does a fourth one really get you, and how would you make it distinct? More importantly, how do you fit it in and avoid creating another "every static uses the one viable composition and the other jobs can go pound sand" situation?

* Of course, not many bosses are as adorable as a four year old with a balloon mallet...

https://scontent.fyqm1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...94&oe=5A87AEF7

Just some QoL fixes for SCH would be fine really.

E-tactics reducing the cost of Adlo/Succor
Improvements to Pet AI (applies to SMN as well)
Slight tweeks to Selene (Fey Wind upped to 5% and Silent Dusk replaced for a single target burst heal or even the antithesis of Fey Covenant to provide physical resistance.)

I would love to see Silent Dusk replaced with a skill that caused a random 5 second duration debuff to a single enemy like stun, sleep, paralyze, silence, pacified, magic resistance down, physical resistance down, slow, poison, etc. Let her do this once every 30 or 40 seconds and actually be useful in a RNG kinda way. Then you could leave her on Sic and let Fey Wind and Fey Caress and Fey Mischief, for lack of a better word, do their thing.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

I'd like to see them put the Spear card back the way it was, because -10~30% cooldown reduction was significantly more useful than yet another tool for flat DPS increase. It's true that it didn't help on the scale of DPS, but DPS isn't everything in this game. I've been trying to 4-man Shinryu on minIL these days, and it's far harder without that cooldown reduction than it was with it. In fact, it may even be impossible simply due to the mana constraints that removing that card effect places on AST. Besides my vaguely infamous obsession with 4-man Shinryu, though, removing cooldown reduction makes various challenge runs simply impossible. Anything that relied on a cooldown being shorter than its base value is now impossible to complete. All those opportunities for cool challenge runs removed, all for the sake of speedrunning battles a few seconds faster on average. A worse trade, I have never seen.

I'd also like to see them give WHMs real control over how to use Lilies. And SCH needs some real love.

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This post is invalid IMHO because you're talking about having the spear changed back so you can do your self-imposed challenge. AST main to another AST main this makes no sense to me because you're doing content that wasn't intended to be done 4-man. And just because you can 4-man it doesn't mean it should be. I would also like to point out that dps may not be everything but it sure does mean a lot to a lot of players. I've seen many people get harassed at in chat for putting out "low" numbers and I'm sure many of us have witnessed this as well. I think you may have been forgetting that they are challenge runs meaning they are supposed to be challenging. SE isn't going to change Spear back because a number of people in the player base wanted to do an 8-man content as a 4-man. That is a self-imposed thing so there really isn't a reason for SE to bring it back since it isn't intended for self-imposing challenges. It's just such a niche scenario there wouldn't be any reason to overhaul a skill -again- just so you can complete your challenge runs.

AST need better MP tools, and a bit more DPS capacity!

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Originally Posted by JedahJohnny

AST need better MP tools, and a bit more DPS capacity!

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He doesn't need more DPS capacity, unless they decide to nerf balance.

Adlo MP cost will be decreased based on this Reddit translation of the recent LL. More adjustments to be listed on the patch notes when they get released.