I hate that BRD is so dependent on DRGs Buffs/Debuff

Hey ho fellow BRD players,

with the introduction of Samurai my Raidgroup DRG sometimes switches of to Samurai and ive noticed a massiv dps lose on my side.. In pug Groups you can instandly feel the difference with a decent Comb of classes.

When i do arround 4k Dps without a DRG alone Disembowel (5%) would give me arround 200 dps increase. And you cant forget the Crit buff which perfectly stacks with your opener and Dot resets.

If Square really wants that player should suport each other like they gave Monk utility they should do something about MCH/BRD with piercing resistance that you arent deppended on a DRG so much to do really good. Samurai is in my eyes pure ego DPS that takes everything from everyone but doesnt give anything back besides a slashing debuff and a bit more of DPS that everyone else will lose.

Greetz Haku
Sorry for Typos. lol

I can understand if player wanna do easy peasy Samurai and do 5k DPS but its dumb that other classes must suffer under this.

its dumb to say that someone else is the reason for your personal dps amount – grp buffs are boni on top but they shouldn't be seen as "debuff" if they fail or are missing completely. You simple can't rely on other classes just to justify your own dmg. I always wonder if people rely on others for their own output. F.e the TA discussion "the grp suffers if you fail". And btw Sam is not the first "ego dps"... Blm and Mnks in HW were similar and to be fair I also can't understand why its even a thing to talk about... I mean from an objective point of view you two add your dmg to your grp, so whats the difference in the end how the amount of dps is generated? If Sam/Brd (60/40) do the same dmg like Drg/Brd (50/50) I can't see a point aside of personal ego problems... : /

Wel if you want to compete and compare your dmg with other players its impossible if you raid without a drg. May it be my own ego yes but the conecpt of beeing on the lower End of the dps because of no DRG still sucks.

So actually you are upset about your own choice playing a support dd cls which makes less dmg than a raw dd class?... Brd is absolut fine in personal dps if you consider their tons of grp utility. : /

I guaranteed you most Dragoon players don't like having their firepower potential gutted because of their 'supportive' elements either.

But here we are.

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Originally Posted by Hakuohsama

Wel if you want to compete and compare your dmg with other players its impossible if you raid without a drg. May it be my own ego yes but the conecpt of beeing on the lower End of the dps because of no DRG still sucks.

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Ang blm dps is hugely related to magic vulnerability debuff from smn. But because nobody bothers with double caster setups, smn or even blm over rdm, they will always underperform by default, so what.

^ this - I wonder if a Blm could beat Sam in total dps with a caster based setup... Blm, Smn, Brd, Nin - not the overall raid dps just the Blm max dmg vs. Sam max dmg in a current melee setup... would be interesting to see who would win this comparison hmm ^^

Well but no one is raiding with double Casters. But over 50% raid with DRG as a melee DPS.
Thats a huge difference.

I doubt thats true – I know enough "good" statics which run out of meta with classes to their personal likings and they do pretty fine. Me myself was running Alex savage with 2 Drks and 2 Smns. Yesterday i was whispered in Rhal from a random if I like to join a static to support their main dmg dealer which is a Blm. In this forum you would never find ANYONE who would search and ask a random smn to join his static - because its way out of meta but like always people forget that just 10% of the player base use forums at all - so what about the other 90%?. Meta is just interesting for worlds firsts out of that: meta doesn't mean a shit.

Honestly, if you're playing bard to exclusively deal DPS, you're not playing bard for the right reasons. Yes, a piercing damage debuff is a nice little boon to have, but we don't need it; rather, we are there to provide that constant 2% crit, that 10% DH cooldown, that raid-wide defensive cooldown, Nature's Minne, raid-wide TP and MP refreshes, etc. We are a support DPS, and we are there to boost the raid's damage by increasing DD's damage and minimizing healing time. On top of the damage we deal of course.

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Originally Posted by Neela

So actually you are upset about your own choice playing a support dd cls which makes less dmg than a raw dd class?... Brd is absolut fine in personal dps if you consider their tons of grp utility. : /

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That's not the issue, it's the the fact it's a specific tethering of the classes.

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Originally Posted by KalinOrthos

Honestly, if you're playing bard to exclusively deal DPS, you're not playing bard for the right reasons. Yes, a piercing damage debuff is a nice little boon to have, but we don't need it; rather, we are there to provide that constant 2% crit, that 10% DH cooldown, that raid-wide defensive cooldown, Nature's Minne, raid-wide TP and MP refreshes, etc. We are a support DPS, and we are there to boost the raid's damage by increasing DD's damage and minimizing healing time. On top of the damage we deal of course.

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well said indeed ^^

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Originally Posted by Neela

its dumb to say that someone else is the reason for your personal dps amount

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Not entirely. Especially when you consider the current fad over everyone requiring or using fflogs before you can even join there raid group.

It\\'s actually very accurate to say other people are the reason for your personal dps amount.

If your dps is 4k then you.might for example find yourself at the 50th percentile.

If you had a ninja then trick attack adds 1.5% to your dps. If you had an ast. Balance might add 2.5% to your dps. (Based on 25% uptime. Dunno how accurate that is I don\\'t have an ast levelled or even unlocked)

So just those 2 things could be an extra 160 dps. And that might put you in the 60th percentile instead of the 50th.

Add a brds permanent crit buff and direct hit buffs and it\\'s defence thing along with a dragoons battle litany and you might find your 4k dps is now getting on towards 4.5k and now going above the 80th percentile.

The other people in your party can have a very significant impact on your personal dps. This is why things like fflogs are so inaccurate and I\\'ve hid myself and just don\\'t use them

It's come to the point where I feel like the resistance debuffs are better off removed entirely from every job.

The slashing and piercing debuffs have continuously been points of contention in every single expansion, and it's come to the point where they're actually more trouble than they're worth. Especially now that every job that has access to it, actually applies it automatically just by doing their max dps rotation.

MNK is the only job that still goes out of its way just to apply their debuff. But I feel like theirs might as well be removed as well, because eventually we're going to find ourselves in a similar situation, anyway.

If people are concerned about their utility being stripped and their jobs diminished, there are other ways to provide utility that aren't nearly as problematic as the physical resistance debuffs.

In any case, I'd rather have a utility ability that needs proper timing to execute rather than utility that automatically renews itself without any interaction required from myself.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Not entirely. Especially when you consider the current fad over everyone requiring or using fflogs before you can even join there raid group.

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yeah thats the curse ever since - its our fault that classes are locked out of raid grps not SEs.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This is why things like fflogs are so inaccurate and I\\'ve hid myself and just don\\'t use them

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yeah more people should give a fuck about fflogs/meta and like just 10% of the com uses forums even less will upload data on fflogs (and mostly just their best runs if at all) so fflogs statistics are totally inaccurate. im with ya on this point.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

Not entirely. Especially when you consider the current fad over everyone requiring or using fflogs before you can even join there raid group.

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People using fflogs to decide if you're good enough to join their party generally know how party comp affects your dps, so it's not a very powerful argument.

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Originally Posted by Neela

So actually you are upset about your own choice playing a support dd cls which makes less dmg than a raw dd class?... Brd is absolut fine in personal dps if you consider their tons of grp utility. : /

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I don't think that's what the OP is saying, though I could be wrong. As it stands, BRD/MCH are the only two physical DPS roles that do not apply their own damage debuff to increase their DPS-- SAM/NIN both have skills to apply slashing, MNK has Dragon Kick to apply blunt, DRG applies piercing. BRD/MCH have no such debuff, and if the developers are keen to keep the resistance debuffs in the game, then it would be nice to give BRD/MCH a way to apply the piercing debuff to mobs so that they can maximize their own damage.

While the reason behind playing a BRD is not "pure damage" and rather "party support," it does still kind of suck that BRD/MCH have to remain reliant on a DRG to apply a very basic damage debuff.

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Originally Posted by Hakuohsama

Well but no one is raiding with double Casters. But over 50% raid with DRG as a melee DPS.
Thats a huge difference.

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But then i think you have to ask to improve an overall class balance to make everything viable and interchangeable, not to make something that's already meta to be even more overpowered.

My Point is that a DRG effect your total dmg out put by 5% which is actually alot witht he current Numbers.
And that only DRG can provide this debuff while other classes besides Monk use there Slash resistance which multiple calsses apply.
If you had at least 2 classes with a piercing debuff this wouldnt be that big of a problem.
Imagine everyone wouldnt have the 10% slashing debuff which would hurt alot of classes.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don't think that's what the OP is saying, though I could be wrong. As it stands, BRD/MCH are the only two physical DPS roles that do not apply their own damage debuff to increase their DPS-- SAM/NIN both have skills to apply slashing, MNK has Dragon Kick to apply blunt, DRG applies piercing. BRD/MCH have no such debuff, and if the developers are keen to keep the resistance debuffs in the game, then it would be nice to give BRD/MCH a way to apply the piercing debuff to mobs so that they can maximize their own damage.

While the reason behind playing a BRD is not "pure damage" and rather "party support," it does still kind of suck that BRD/MCH have to remain reliant on a DRG to apply a very basic damage debuff.

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Thank you finally someone that understands the problem..

Honestly sounds like crying.. You want to be competitive with other classes, maybe you want to be 1st place in dps with your team by the end of the raid encounter. Why not just manually calculate what 5% more damage would of done.. If your second place the person above you is only marginally better.. take pride in knowing that if you had a goon, you would likely of won.

I think everyone forgets that the bard/mch is prettymuch the only class that is genuinely suppose to have 100% uptime. Blm/Smn/Rdm all have cast times. that can be interupted.. If your melee, there are mechanics you may need to avoid resulting in you not being able to attack the boss.. Only Physical Ranged DPS get the best of all worlds.. Would it be fair that they do the most damage?
With the recent MCH buffs, we are basically back to a world where the best comp is NIN/DRG/MCH/BRD. I'm really failing to see how anyone can complain when there are bards and machinist easily doing 5.2k+ damage.

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Originally Posted by Hakuohsama

My Point is that a DRG effect your total dmg out put by 5% which is actually alot witht he current Numbers.
And that only DRG can provide this debuff while other classes besides Monk use there Slash resistance which multiple calsses apply.
If you had at least 2 classes with a piercing debuff this wouldnt be that big of a problem.
Imagine everyone wouldnt have the 10% slashing debuff which would hurt alot of classes.

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Well, in a drk-pld-mnk-drg comp tanks have the same problem. It's actually a way bigger problem in this case since the combined dps of both tanks is greater than the dps of a brd/mch and slashing debuff is 10%. And 5% is 5%, absolute numbers are always misleading.

It's the fact the BRD (and MCN) is actually reliant on the DRG for full potential. They are in effect tethered to the class. Another BRD or MCN that does have a DRG is just gets 5% more damage. If you do 4k dps without the DRG, that's another 200dps that you're missing out on.

Like imagine of RDM had a fire vulnerability debuff on hitting with Jolt - BLM would then need a RDM present to reach full potential.

Imagine if the slashing debuff was removed from NIN and SAM. Now NIN and SAM need to have a warrior tank/OT to reach their full potential.

Now when it comes to balance, what do you balance these classes around?

In the abstract, the classes with the dependencies either are substandard every time the other is not present, or balanced they are clearly the optimum choice to always take for max damage because of it.

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The slashing debuff is in the same boat, but there's less of a single dependency because NIN, SAM and WAR all provide it rather than only DRG, so there are far more comp options. And you always want NIN anyway.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

The slashing debuff is in the same boat, but there's less of a single dependency because NIN, SAM and WAR all provide it rather than only DRG, so there are far more comp options. And you always want NIN anyway.

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You always want a DRG too, at least if we're talking about the optimal party composition. If not, any composition is perfectly fine.

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Originally Posted by prophecy4seen

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Do you even read? I dont want to be the Top DPS in my group. Its just unfair that my full potential is hinddered when i dont have a DRG in my Group.
And DRG is the ONLY Class that can provide this debuff for me and thats stuipid.

And 5k Dmg? Yeah fully maxed out with DRG etc.. you can do that.. thats the whole Point that its impossible without it and simply stuipid that you get hindered by Classes.

I understand the desire to apply your own damage buff but... then do we give slashing to pld/drk and therefore may as well completely remove them? disembowel missing is not going to remove you from a raid group as bard. the job is too useful.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

You always want a DRG too, at least if we're talking about the optimal party composition. If not, any composition is perfectly fine.

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That's why I mentioned before:

>In the abstract, the classes with the dependencies either are substandard every time the other is not present, or balanced they are clearly the optimum choice to always take for max damage because of it.

NIN BRD DRG

I honestly expected the piercing debuff to be given to another class in Stormblood, but they decided to go down the route of halving its effect so it isn't quite as important... ah well!

While a DRG might have more of an impact on a Bards DPS compared to any other 1 job, its not like its the only thing to look at. The whole of the team composition is important for your DPS, just like it is for all jobs.

If one group has SCH/MNK/NIN/RDM/BRD, and another has WHM/DRG/SAM/BLM/BRD - the former would give you Chain Strat, Brotherhood, Trick Attack and Embolden, while the latter would only give you Disembowel and Battle Litany... and possibly Dragon Sight, although they really shouldn't be giving that to the Bard! I'm pretty sure those effects would even out. So, you cant say just because you dont have a dragoon, that you're instantly screwed! (Now if your party has 2 WHM, 2 SAM and a BLM, then you might have a reason to complain!)

(Also, I dont think that a Bards DOTs are affected by the piercing debuff either, so it won't be a straight up 5% increase.)

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Imagine if the slashing debuff was removed from NIN and SAM. Now NIN and SAM need to have a warrior tank/OT to reach their full potential.

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That was pretty much the case with nin during hw. With no warrior, they could hardly go with aeolian edge due to much to refresh with gcd.

Basically during arr and hw, except for dragoon, resistance down was a choice that was suboptimal potency speaking, but optimal dps wise even alone.

Thus, multiples jobs having the same damage type could affect one to the maintain of debuff and one going full damage.

Since resistance down is included in every dps cycle except monk (which can skip it if running dual monk for whatever reason), they loose much sense and only sum up to one thing : buffing mch, drg, pld and drk if the specific job are present.

Are they mandatory ? Yes.
Are they interesting ? No.
Could they be changed by something else ? Maybe but... by what ? Especially for sam/war/drg they would break a hole in having non interesting combos tied to nothing.

as a DRG main with a SAM sub... it takes FAR less work to get better DPS out of my samurai, than the DRG. People seem to think that Kenki management is what separates a good Sam from a bad, but honestly... even the bad Sams are putting up big numbers and their resource meter isn't constantly ticking down. Its not even really a good comparison... sam is an incredibly forgiving dps job.

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Originally Posted by Eyvhokan

It's the fact the BRD (and MCN) is actually reliant on the DRG for full potential. They are in effect tethered to the class. Another BRD or MCN that does have a DRG is just gets 5% more damage. If you do 4k dps without the DRG, that's another 200dps that you're missing out on.

Like imagine of RDM had a fire vulnerability debuff on hitting with Jolt - BLM would then need a RDM present to reach full potential.

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If you say they are thetered for full potential, you have to say that Blm/Rdm need a smn for full potential as well. Ever heard someone complaining bout they can't buff themselves to avoid the "need" of a smn buffslave to reach full potential? If I follow your argument every cls need a buffslave cls to reach maximum - so it's not a Brd specific problem. So what's the point in trying to make it a Brd only problem?

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Originally Posted by Neela

If you say they are thetered for full potential, you have to say that Blm/Rdm need a smn for full potential as well. Ever heard someone complaining bout they can't buff themselves to avoid the "need" of a smn buffslave to reach full potential? If I follow your argument every cls need a buffslave cls to reach maximum - so it's not a Brd specific problem. So what's the point in trying to make it a Brd only problem?

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+1

BRD is a job to help the team. It's normal if they are the last dps, because it's there role. And considering that the job in incomplete because you need another buff from another job is an error, because every job will deals more damage with another job. So with this logique, all job is incomplete...

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Originally Posted by Azerhan

+1

BRD is a job to help the team. It's normal if they are the last dps, because it's there role. And considering that the job in incomplete because you need another buff from another job is an error, because every job will deals more damage with another job. So with this logique, all job is incomplete...

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It's not that every job is reliant on others for full potential and thus incomplete, therefore there is nothing wrong with BRD/MCH being reliant on DRG. It's that BRD/MCH are the only physical DPS jobs that do not apply their own damage resistance debuff to an enemy. Instead, they have to rely on a DRG if they want the damage increase from Disembowel's piercing resistance down, where as the other physical DPS all apply their respective debuffs as part of their standard rotation.

BRDs may be a support, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are last place in terms of DPS.

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Originally Posted by AxelDH

If one group has SCH/MNK/NIN/RDM/BRD, and another has WHM/DRG/SAM/BLM/BRD - the former would give you Chain Strat, Brotherhood, Trick Attack and Embolden, while the latter would only give you Disembowel and Battle Litany... and possibly Dragon Sight, although they really shouldn't be giving that to the Bard!

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Actually, if the BRD has the highest DPS in the group, or second highest after the DRG, the Dragon Sight tether should most definitely go to the BRD.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

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then you realize that anyone using fflogs for those kinds of things already know thats and takes it into account when comparing people on fflogs.

As a drg in 3.x i didn't compare my numbers with drgs who had mch and ninjas in their parties

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Originally Posted by HarassMe

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Not even close to being true. Aside from your small window for LoTD/Nastrond, Dragoon is as faceroll as it was in HW, literally the only change to your rotation is that now you get a instant WT/FnC after you use either. BoTD CD was reduced, it is next to impossible to lose BoTD unless you are going through a 15+ second intermission phase or your tank mid-dungeon goes afk and the only other thing that you even have to manage is using MD after every SSD/Jump, which is really just as easy as hitting 2 Ogcd's every 30/60 seconds. Samurai: You have 2 buffs that you need to track, managing your kenki so that you have enough to kaiten every MS and Higanbana, making sure you have the kenki to use guren on cooldown, proper hagakure and Meiyo Shisui useage, 3 differen't openers depending on your comp, Getting the correct timing down to use Seigen, making sure you aren't overlapping and wasting sens by doing iajutsu's mid-combo. So, I disagree with your "assessment" of samurai playing easier than Dragoon at a optimal level.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Not even close to being true. Aside from your small window for LoTD/Nastrond, Dragoon is as faceroll as it was in HW, literally the only change to your rotation is that now you get a instant WT/FnC after you use either. BoTD CD was reduced, it is next to impossible to lose BoTD unless you are going through a 15+ second intermission phase or your tank mid-dungeon goes afk and the only other thing that you even have to manage is using MD after every SSD/Jump, which is really just as easy as hitting 2 Ogcd's every 30/60 seconds. Samurai: You have 2 buffs that you need to track, managing your kenki so that you have enough to kaiten every MS and Higanbana, making sure you have the kenki to use guren on cooldown, proper hagakure and Meiyo Shisui useage, 3 differen't openers depending on your comp, Getting the correct timing down to use Seigen, making sure you aren't overlapping and wasting sens by doing iajutsu's mid-combo. So, I disagree with your "assessment" of samurai playing easier than Dragoon at a optimal level.

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Come on. Are there still samurai trying to make people think they have to track their buffs ? Amongst all other dps, the sam has a 3 sen cycle which will naturally flow you throught both buffs and slashing debuff.

Your kenki dumps have such a low cd that the jauge can easily be pooled do keep some burst for incoming party buffs or guren, which is not the case for cooldown based skills where every second of sitting avaliable is a dps loss that have to be known to be fully exploited.

You have mobility, a far less punishing positionnal than any melee, on demand burst with meikyo shisui

And by the way, mid combo iajutsu are a flexibility and not a contraint.

Don't try to make people think sam is a hard to learn class. It's easy and forgiving while pushing high number even if you're bad.

Of course beeing good means you will push higher numbers because your base damage is higher than others, but the skill floor of a sam is quite high, while the skill ceiling isn't high much higher.

A good dragoon will have a hard time reaching an average SAM while beeing destroyed by any donwntime in fights, while sam's ressources never decay overtime, and buffs are easily reapplied with two parts combos.

The sad thing is the sam is the most interesting, yet less punitive, gameplay that SE designed for stormblood, while a lot of other jobs are flawed.

Other jobs aren't harder than sam though. What's hard about drg? You literally have 2 5-step fixed combos and you weave stuff between your gcds. Btod management si basically gone in sb and eyes management is pretty straightforward. Mnk has 2 3 step combos that go back-back-?, Flank-flank-?, where the last skill changes depending on demolish left duration and you weave stuff when possible. GL and buffs refresh naturally during these combos. Optimizing mnk is basically "don't use IR before bootshine". Many people think sam is easier because it has a higher dps at any ilvl. But I'm pretty sure that most of them would be totally humiliated by a sam that is actually playing optimally.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

which is not the case for cooldown based skills where every second of sitting avaliable is a dps loss that have to be known to be fully exploited..

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In an infinite encounternperhaps but generally speaking This is far from true.

If you take one cool down ability. Let's say kassatsu for a ninja for example has a 2 minute cool down. And then take a fight. V1s for example has a 9minute 40 enrage timer.

Best case scenario is you can do 5 kassatsus in that encounter. If you open with Suiton and hit your first pretty much straight away. You can do 4 more every 2 minutes.

Due to the enrage timer being 9:40 that then means you can delay all ofnthose kassatsu by a combined total of 90 seconds and it will not be a dps loss.

Your second mine might be 3 minutes. Your third another 2 mins 10. Your 4th dead on 2 minutes. And your last 2 mins 15 seconds.

Even with all those delays as long as you can still put 5 of them out before the enrage it's not a dps loss.

If your group was downing that fight in around 7 minutes. Then you can do at most 4 kassatsu And the same principle applies only now you maybe only have 45 seconds to play with but as long as you get 4 in that 7 minutes it's not a dps loss.

Its not a matter of hardness, but how you lack ways to react to situations while the sam has the tools to adapt to anything.

When you get bumped as a sam, you just charge back if you gcd is avaliable or if you canno run back before it's up again.
On a dragoon you j... oh sorry jumps are cd tied and tied to your rotation for eyes.

If the boss despawn, only your buff deplete and are tied to no cooldown. Sen and kenki remain. And you can even exploit downtimes with a kenki generator to compensate.
On a drg you loose timer on your botd which will have to be sustained throught a quick aoe combo (loss of dps) or a 5 combo long chain, meaning you cannot get keep botd iif the timer is close to expiration, or at best, you have to throw 2gcd refreshing it before even rebuffing yourself then going throught your debuff/dot combo.

Any time failing to enter lotd is a dps loss, any drop of botd is a dps loss, any hold up of geirskogull because of boss phasing and not wanting to get into lotd for nothing is a dps loss.

Just try yojimbo in kugane castle as a sam and a dragoon and you will tell me your impressions.

I guess the same goes for GL stacks, while tornado kick is a weak compensation for loosing them, any greed resulting in wanting to hit the very last moment can end with an even more punishment.

Sam dps is quite just paused during downtimes just like rdm, but highly dependant jobs to buff sustain aren't.

And that s not even about positionnal.

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In an infinite encounternperhaps but generally speaking This is far from true.

If you take one cool down ability. Let's say kassatsu for a ninja for example has a 2 minute cool down. And then take a fight. V1s for example has a 9minute 40 enrage timer.

Best case scenario is you can do 5 kassatsus in that encounter. If you open with Suiton and hit your first pretty much straight away. You can do 4 more every 2 minutes.

Due to the enrage timer being 9:40 that then means you can delay all ofnthose kassatsu by a combined total of 90 seconds and it will not be a dps loss.

Your second mine might be 3 minutes. Your third another 2 mins 10. Your 4th dead on 2 minutes. And your last 2 mins 15 seconds.

Even with all those delays as long as you can still put 5 of them out before the enrage it's not a dps loss.

If your group was downing that fight in around 7 minutes. Then you can do at most 4 kassatsu And the same principle applies only now you maybe only have 45 seconds to play with but as long as you get 4 in that 7 minutes it's not a dps loss.

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True but false in that current case.

First : nin was not the point, as they only loose a mudra if they need to refresh their buffsn. Whoses duration is up to 70s which leaves a big margin.
Kassatsu is also used with TA so you can' really delay it except if it means no loss of use neither during a TA.
Plus : nin and mch are quite the downtime heroes, as their burst phase is quite independant from their gauge (not entirely true for mch but FT can cover it) meaning the more downtimes you get, the more time your burst phases will account for total dps.

Second : omega savage are 4 boss and done by a low amount of the total player base. While you probably play with a static and account every burst phase depending of the length of the enrage timer, other don't (including myself, as I don't play games to follow scripts. But that s a personnal way oftm thinking).
Ffxiv vary a big amount of activities including dungeon crawling, where the dragoon is more affected than during raids.

Edit : while it's worth calculating with a 2min cooldown, take instead a 30s one. 9'40 means 20 uses.

If you delay just half of them by one second. Just one. You loose 1 full use. If the boss despawn for 15s and your cd is at 10, you lost half the margin you had.

Now take a 15 s cooldown and math it. Theses calculations works well with long cooldowns because their delay is a low dps loss, or even no loss at all. But short cooldowns are more impacted by delay or downtimes.