Is the HP return from Souleater/AD/InnerBeast Broken?

I was wondering about this because I am used to Souleater returning 100% of damage dealt, even after the tooltip changing from "100%" to "A portion of damage dealt", and has been behaving thus far up until I began queueing some dungeons higher up (such as Doma Castle), it seemed that from this point on souleater was only healing for a random percentile in the 90% range.

I mean it's not a huge change, but it's one that behaves oddly. To check that I wasn't going crazy, I queued a solo POTD run. Within it's confines of level 60 synced content, the HP returned is still at 100%.

I guess I'm just wondering if this is working as intended, as if the devs designed a different scaling for these specific moves (I really only know about Abyssal Drain and Souleater) past a certain level. Regardless it kind of sucks when returning HP from your main combo can be considered a form of mitigation.

No one knows why they did this. It seems all life steals degrade from 65+ to 70, returning only something around 70% of the damage dealt.

Which is odd since it was never broken to begin with, offer a mere Hot on the tank.

I'm hoping that tenacity eventually scales to the point where these weak incoming heals will become something worthwhile. (tenacity boosts self healing, right?)

I don't think tenacity double dips on lifesteal (damage boost + hp stolen boost). I think it remains solely a damage boost that translate into more HP, but thoses HP unaffected a second time.

I really don't understand this change of calculations, and blury typo like it was "intended" to slowly reduce it to nothing over the course of the expansions.

To me, Lifesteal was never a trouble since it was 1) minor, 2) mostly overhealing, 3) rarely accounted, 4) Personnal only.

Not the beat a dead horse, but except a few low hitting bosses, tank couldn't sustain themselves over a fight if the healer was dead, and even on theses bosses the DPS would end dead before the end of the fight (I mostly soloed the first gubal NM boss as a warrior, took long but people all died.). On the other hand, a paladin can sustain himself and even his own team in desperate situation, and on harder hitting bosses.

Since the lifesteal is vaguely irrelevant in serious HL content, why nerfing it ?

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Originally Posted by Ragology

I'm hoping that tenacity eventually scales to the point where these weak incoming heals will become something worthwhile. (tenacity boosts self healing, right?)

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It does not.

By level 70 Souleater is only returning 88% of damage dealt.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

Since the lifesteal is vaguely irrelevant in serious HL content, why nerf it ?

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This is precisely my point. They are consistently buffing the damage of Souleater, which is great and all. but.. why? tbh I don't care that much about the DPS numbers I put out. I care more about the HP I return from it. It gives me the feel of that "drain tank" that Drk should have always been and you'd be crazy to consider otherwise. The scaling coming down in the latest levels weighs pretty heavily on me as a Drk. We have so few defensive CDs, and the consistent and sustained healing from souleater is a big deal for me.

It's not broken. They just reduced the values. Inner Beast now returns 88% of the damage dealt. Storm's Path returns 44%. They nerfed it from 100% and 50% respectively. I don't know why. The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling they just wanted to make Paladin shine as bright as possible. Considering Paladins have an easier time dealing damage, have better utility, and better sustain than both the other tanks, it just makes no sense. Like they can literally just spam Clemency whenever they feel like it, healing to almost full HP, at which point they can just pop a cooldown and start getting their MP back. "Oh but it's a DPS loss, why would they do that?" Dude, one of your healers is dead, and the other is trying to get the DPS back up or something. You can either leave Sword Oath on and spam Holy Spirit until you eventually wipe, or you can get your ass under Shield Oath and start healing yourself and potentially prevent a reset.

It's about the options available to you, and which was something Warriors used to have to a certain extent with Bloodbath and stronger heals. But now that's gone. Now, Warriors have Equilibrium on a 1 minute cooldown, which is like a 20% heal in the BEST of cases. That's just not enough.

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Originally Posted by BluexBird

It's not broken. They just reduced the values. Inner Beast now returns 88% of the damage dealt. Storm's Path returns 44%. They nerfed it from 100% and 50% respectively. I don't know why. The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling they just wanted to make Paladin shine as bright as possible. Considering Paladins have an easier time dealing damage, have better utility, and better sustain than both the other tanks, it just makes no sense. Like they can literally just spam Clemency whenever they feel like it, healing to almost full HP, at which point they canjust pop a cooldown and start getting their MP back. "Oh but it's a DPS loss, why would they do that?" Dude, one of your healers is dead, and the other is trying to get the DPS back up or something. You can either leave Sword Oath on and spam Holy Spirit until you eventually wipe, or you can get your ass under Shield Oath and start healing yourself and potentially prevent a reset.

It's about the options available to you, and which was something Warriors used to have to a certain extent with Bloodbath and stronger heals. But now that's gone. Now, Warriors have Equilibrium on a 1 minute cooldown, which is like a 20% heal in the BEST of cases. That's just not enough.

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It almost does feel like SB's main goal was to make Paladin the end-all be-all class.

Its probably for the scale of tenacity, Noe we are in the begining of the expansión, in the second and last raid tier gear meaby let us heals 100% of the damage or even more, how knows, somebody need to test that

Again, Tenacity only affects incoming healing from outside sources.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Again, Tenacity only affects incoming healing from outside sources.

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I be glad to see a extensive test how prove that

I did some tests a while ago, regardless of my gear, Inner Beast was healing me for the same exact percentage. So I doubt Tenacity does anything about your self-heals.

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Originally Posted by shao32

I be glad to see a extensive test how prove that

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The exact return on the self heals has already been mathed out on reddit. For example, soul eater is 88.4%. With min or max tenacity.

Another thing to take account is that PLD has Clemency, WAR has Equilibrium while DRK has only lifesteal from SE in single target and AD on groups

Tenacity afaik affects self heals not drains.

Ergo its pretty useless on DRK for that purpose but okay on PLD/WAR if that's your thing.

@OP
It's logarithmic decay.

http://i.imgur.com/JIDN9aV.png

Also, check the tooltip and if you read it before SB, you'll notice a difference.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

@OP
It's logarithmic decay.

http://i.imgur.com/JIDN9aV.png

Also, check the tooltip and if you read it before SB, you'll notice a difference.

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This is great an all. But it still confuses me as to "why" SE did this to begin with. Paladin gets clemency which is a gitantic heal to themselves or others. Seeing 10k+ on critical hits is outstanding. With the other tools in Pld's kit, this is wholly unreasonable. I can't understand SE's decision to add in this type of decay for no reason and certainly no explanation or rhyme as to why they did it. To be honest, I hope this question is brought up in a live letter.

The motive behind it can only be speculated, other than they considered Drain Healing too impactful outside Savage (Thus the removal of Bloodbath, the reduction of the percent for IB, SS, and SE) compared to the damage they were dealing. However, there are some nuances to consider.

Inner Beast actually heals a slight bit more than it used to if you account for the potency increase (16% increase, 12% heal reduction)

Soulstealer in Grit is generally going to have Dark Arts running, and unlike Inner Beast, there's generally no 'cost' compared to the conscious decision to use it. Soulstealer is going to be used regardless so long as your threat is fine and Bloodspiller isn't ready. Compared to before, Soulstealer is about 15% stronger with a 12% heal reduction, or 10% when Dark Artsed

Tenacity may not affect drains, but drains are affected by the damage bonus.

The bigger loss is Blood Bath, all things considered.

Souleater whit 1k tenecety returned
88,4% dmg to hp
whit 600 tenecety it returned
88,4% dmg to hp

so tenecety 0 use in healing part for DRK.

Tested healing from healer to 1350 tenecety and 800 tenecety.
Numbers are same so it dont increase healing incoming eather.

so only one who get any use of that part of tenecety is pld clemency i quess.
PLD again.....

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Originally Posted by Eliroth-Kaminari

so only one who get any use of that part of tenecety is pld clemency i quess.
PLD again.....

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WAR does get some use out of it as well thanks to Equilibrium, so the only one that has no benefit is DRK. I think.

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Originally Posted by Eliroth-Kaminari

snip

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Thanks for testing that

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Originally Posted by SyzzleSpark

Tenacity afaik affects self heals not drains.

Ergo its pretty useless on DRK for that purpose but okay on PLD/WAR if that's your thing.

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Tenacity affects outgoing heals, so that section of the stat is only useful for Paladins thanks to Clemency.

Yes drains don't benefit tenacity's healing bonus, but It's worth noting that the damage mitigation from tenacity means the effective hp recovered from drains increases, on top of the damage bonus. In that sense, tenacity is the strongest sub stat if you want drain potency.

I feel like this was a reaction to the massive amount of self heals that tanks had, more specifically war had, in 3.0 which in turn forced healers to dps. In 4.0 they made tanks more reliant on healers and healers more focused in healing. However that being said since self heals are directly tied to damage, war players have been stacking direct hit on the left side as more outgoing damage and higher critical damage produce higher self healing. I'm sure this will produce some other type of issue farther down the line. I'm already doing IB direct crits for over 10k in my current i314 gear.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Again, Tenacity only affects incoming healing from outside sources.

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That guy voice: except for paladin

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Originally Posted by Rhinos

Yes drains don't benefit tenacity's healing bonus, but It's worth noting that the damage mitigation from tenacity means the effective hp recovered from drains increases, on top of the damage bonus. In that sense, tenacity is the strongest sub stat if you want drain potency.

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Since tenacity improves damages, drain are affected. But well, they aren't high to begin with, and are event slightly nerfed from 100% to, as tested, 88%.

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Originally Posted by TankHunter678

Tenacity affects outgoing heals, so that section of the stat is only useful for Paladins thanks to Clemency.

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I believe Equilibrium benefits as well.

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Originally Posted by MauvaisOeil

Since tenacity improves damages, drain are affected. But well, they aren't high to begin with, and are event slightly nerfed from 100% to, as tested, 88%.

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I'm aware, but my point stands, for what it's worth.