Tank want to train mob but didnt use CD or have decent ilvl, what do?

I dont want to nitpick about this but i know now 330 equipment is out and 310 is more common, pls tank.... If you want to train mob the whole run just so you can finish the dungeon 1-2 minutes faster, at least be adequate about it like using your CD and have decent ilvl to do so

Sorry for the rant but i just got the worst tank ever in this month. Not going to tell who but the guy is WAR, majority decked in 290-300 ilvl and just went full speed ahead in train mob.

Put it simple, guy use CD in mostly wrong encounter (no cd while 5+ enemy but unleash everything against normal 3 enemy), his HP goind down so fast i have no choice but to spam benefic 2 (heal 2) and to top of it we have no downtime, so when there is 2 less enemy the tank just bolted sprint to next mob and just aggro everything, by the time we did this 4-5 times non stop i barely has any mp and the dps roughly on 1/2 tp all the time.

Biggest offender? The tank "mock" me saying that iam that "lazy healer who didnt do any dps" kind of healer, i mean seriously? You aggro like 6+ enemy, didnt even properly finish all of them and just bolted next to train mob everything ahead,i barely keep your hp from dying and the best you can say is iam "lazy healer"?!?!?

Iam sorry but i cant.... I just... I cant... When we reach last mob before final boss i just say it out loud "iam leaving bye" i dont care i got penalty or not but, iam leaving and iam putting that war on blacklist forever. For consolation prize the dps actually whisp me after that said that the tank deserve it anyway and laugh about it, glad the dps feel the same way at least.

Tank that don't know the limitation of their healer are the worst tank

Don't let this get to you :D

A tank that doesn't use its cooldowns in a dungeon is the equivalent of a DPS that either doesn't use self-buffs or doesn't bother with proper rotations. They are either playing lazy, or are just bad. At best they need more practice (and are doing just that), while at worst they just don't care and are only there for the queue times, possibly as an unskilled alt class.

When confronted with a bad tank, just do your best to keep them up because healers can carry a lot. If it's too much to deal with though, consider leaving the party before your sanity breaks.

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Originally Posted by gumas

Put it simple, guy use CD in mostly wrong encounter (no cd while 5+ enemy but unleash everything against normal 3 enemy), his HP goind down so fast i have no choice but to spam benefic 2 (heal 2) and to top of it we have no downtime, so when there is 2 less enemy the tank just bolted sprint to next mob and just aggro everything, by the time we did this 4-5 times non stop i barely has any mp and the dps roughly on 1/2 tp all the time..

The tank "mock" me saying that iam that "lazy healer who didnt do any dps" kind of healer, i mean seriously? You aggro like 6+ enemy, didnt even properly finish all of them and just bolted next to train mob everything ahead,i barely keep your hp from dying and the best you can say is iam "lazy healer"?

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That's the most idiot Tank I've ever seen. A tank who pulls groups of mobs are one thing, but one that keeps going in a continuous fashion like a speedrunner, not letting anyone rest, pulls off the wrong CDs at the wrong time, and especially torturing and mocking the healer even after the healer did everything?

He deserves it. That imbecile ain't playing Tank the right way and you have all the right to scold him good. Don't worry though, this is but only one of the very few. By all means, don't hesitate to leave when this happens.

Just finish a play session a while ago, got decent party all around this time, thank god for jp server most people seems to play it nice.

Easy way to deal with him, if he acts like a *** just let him die.
and for those tank that say "lazy non DPS healer", just DPS and let them die, should learn the lesson ^^

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Originally Posted by gumas

Tank want to train mob but didnt use CD or have decent ilvl, what do?

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Heal it as best you can.

I just want to point this out for the sake of identifying factors that contributed to this situation: What you chose to do, you did because you were insecure. You abandoned 3 ppl (2 of which were innocent bystanders) because the tank hurt your ego. And let's face, it your ilvl complaint is unreasonable. You don't need max ilvl, even to pull big. You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

We are also talking about a tank who you say was using cooldowns in your post (not the way you wanted him to), but not in your thread title, and your character search would indicate you have little to no experience tanking dungeons. In general (and esp with your lack of experience), I would avoid telling the tank what to do/what he didn't do, and if the tank complains, just describe what happened without throwing blame around like: "I was on full cure II spam. Not sure what happened". By saying something like this, you are letting the group know you were pushing significant HPS, letting the tank know you expect him to survive with cure II spam, but aren't trying to pin blame or standoff vs other party members.

You aren't going to get ideal groups all the time in pugs... Just do your best to help the run succeed and try to mitigate potential drama where you can.

I don't like punishing the rest of my group because of one person.

Pulling huge amounts is not much faster then killing in groups of 3, since most classes have weak aoe skills compared to ST rotations so using Single Target rotations on a small group would be quick, depending on dps classes, a SMN/BLM combo could aoe clear well compared to a DRG/MNK

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Originally Posted by winsock

I just want to point this out for the sake of identifying factors that contributed to this situation: What you chose to do, you did because you were insecure. You abandoned 3 ppl (2 of which were innocent bystanders) because the tank hurt your ego. And let's face, it your ilvl complaint is unreasonable. You don't need max ilvl, even to pull big. You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

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Reaching? He was calling him names. No one deserves to be abused. No one. He had every right to leave the party. Any party member, be it a DPS, tank or healer, has the right to quit the group when that group turns hostile. You do not have the right to abuse another player. And since when did you have to know how to tank to know if that person is a good tank? You don't have to be a healer to spot a bad one. It's the one that doesn't heal. So simple, yet so complex! ;O

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Originally Posted by winsock

You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

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They were in the right.

Let me just clarify: nobody is obligated to stay in a group where somebody is calling them names and harassing them because there's two other people there. And nobody should have to sit there and take that kind of treatment. I don't care if they're the worst healer in the world.

I call them out on it.

I simply say if you're not going to use your CD's, I'm not either. We'll see who lives and who dies.

They usually die, and I keep the DPS alive with CD's.

They generally get the idea after that.

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Originally Posted by winsock

You abandoned 3 ppl (2 of which were innocent bystanders) because the tank hurt your ego. And let's face, it your ilvl complaint is unreasonable. You don't need max ilvl, even to pull big. You are reaching for anything you can find to blame the tank for the situation, to help reinforce the idea that you were in the right.

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Are you serious? They could report that tank for harrassing them, you do realize that, right? And you still tell them to 'just take it'? Wow... holy sh**...
It doesn't matter how many people got 'abandoned'. If someone is called names and harrassed for doing their job the best they can, nobody is obliged to stay in that situation. Actually, leaving an abusive situation is the very best thing you can do! Also, 'stand off against other party members? What? He called them names.
Sorry, but people like you are the reason bullies like that excist. Also, no, you don't have to be a tank to know a good one from a bad. And yes, too low ilvl is a darn valid complaint.


OT: You did the right thing. Continue doing what feels right to you and don't listen to people like the guy I quoted above. They are part of the problem.

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Originally Posted by gumas

Put it simple, guy use CD in mostly wrong encounter (no cd while 5+ enemy but unleash everything against normal 3 enemy), his HP goind down so fast i have no choice but to spam benefic 2 (heal 2) and to top of it we have no downtime, so when there is 2 less enemy the tank just bolted sprint to next mob and just aggro everything, by the time we did this 4-5 times non stop i barely has any mp and the dps roughly on 1/2 tp all the time.

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That doesn't sound so terrible. Evidently your gear and/or skill compensated for the tank's lower ilvl and poor cooldown usage. What exactly is the problem?

Judging by the other responses, my perspective is obviously atypical for this game. IMO it isn't the job of the tank to make the run as easy as possible on the healer. Instead the tank and the healer have a shared responsibility to maximise dps (generally) by pulling as much as they collectively can handle. One party member (here the tank) not playing optimally isn't a reason for another (here the healer) not to play to the best of their ability. You heal and dps as best you can. If you wipe, tell the tank that he pulled more than his mitigation and your hps/mp can handle. If you don't wipe then all good, no?

As for the tank's attitude, it's your prerogative to leave of course. Alternatively you could always choose to ignore what some random individual half a world away thinks of your performance.

Bad tank is bad. At this point, I've started telling them so. Politely at first, in case it's just ignorance, but if it escalates, I either leave, or bottle it up and stop trying to save them from their mistakes.

If only people would learn how to pull properly. Seems to be a big issue in this game, not enough focus on the process just the ends.
Better luck finding tanks who can read the group comp and understand what can work. Maybe people will eventually find out that AoE DPS is substantially lower than Single Target and pretty much hinges on the healer's throughput and endurance.

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Originally Posted by Fortune_Cookie

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Except that if the healer has no MP, and the DPS no TP, he pulled far more than 'as much as they collectively can handle'. Actually, they quite obviously overpulled and didn't give anyone time to recover, either. It's also not about making it easy on the healer. The OP didn't ask to make it easy. They asked to make it manageable. And, frankly, even I as WHM start to panic if the tank drops like a stone even though I throw all the tools I have at him to keep him alive... because I know that after I spent them all, there's nothing I can do anymore, and if he drops that hard, I will run out of them quickly. Also, to make it worse, he abused his healer. At this point, it's not about performance anymore. It's about if you are willing to put up with abuse - which you shouldn't be. Name calling shouldnever be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by Elamys

They were in the right.

Let me just clarify: nobody is obligated to stay in a group where somebody is calling them names and harassing them because there's two other people there. And nobody should have to sit there and take that kind of treatment. I don't care if they're the worst healer in the world.

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To clarify, the purpose of my post was to answer the question posed in the thread title, i.e. what [can the OP] do? To do this, i identified factors that i believed contributed to the situation and gave my recommendations on what the OP could do.

Now, my cynicism may be getting the better of me, but i have a hard time believing that the OP is telling the whole story. There are some red flags. For example, the OP's post is weirdly focused on playstyle, the OP was mocked by the tank and whispered to by dps, and the tank was never kicked for harassment... I would absolutely expect that the OP said some stuff that is not being shared. I'm not excusing the tank's behavior by anymeans, but dont believe the OP to be completely innocent e.g. "I stayed with the group up until the final boss, the tank was terrible, but then the tank just started randomly insulting me out of nowhere so i left!!!!" Does anyone believe that? To me, this sounds like something that escalated over the course of the dungeon. Or at the very least, a bigger argument than what the OP is making it appear.

My recommendation for future runs is to mitigate these situations, to lessen the chance that 4 ppl have their run ruined because 2 ppl have a disagreement. I've seen groups end because everyone wanted to escalate the situation further for the sake of being right. I've seen groups saved because someone stepped up and decided they'd rather save the group than escalate drama.

Story time for example:

Awhile back, I was tanking DRK in a 50 roulette w/ full augmented ironworks. The dungeon was Qarn HM. I pull to the first wall (2 groups, but technically 3 if you count the head that doesnt aggro with group 2). I was in tank stance and lead with shadowskin as my first cooldown. The only ability the SCH used was physick and wasnt even spamming it back to back. My HP kept going down, I used living dead, and i died due to not receiving my max hp in healing. I thought to myself.... "guess im pulling 1 at a time". Having had no one comment in party chat other than the initial "howdy", "hi", etc at the start of the duty, the healer says something along the lines of "what did you think was going to happen pulling that many mobs?"

Im understandably a bit irritated. I had run this dungeon several times in the past as a tank and healer, and in my opinion, the healer should have been healing more. I said something stupid like: "I thought you would have healed through it by healing more"... and we were in an argument. I made some other comments in the short argument like "maybe use more than just physick". At one point a dps took the healer's side saying the pull was too large...

Now I was the tank, i could have escalated til i got kicked and instantly requeued, we were at the beginning after all and I was pretty irritated with this healer, but i decided to stick it out and focus on a solution. I was going to pull less anyway so i just said "fine. ill pull less for you" (admittedly being irritated).

We died at the first boss... I had calmed down from the earlier argument and said "welp, that was bad. Anyone need a fight explanation?". The healer and DPS from earlier both said that they did. I afterwards said "cool cool, anybody new btw?" Both the healer and DPS mentioned that they were new.

To shorten the story, I ended up getting 3 comms at the end of that run. The SCH even let me give them a couple pointers. The moral of the story being pride and a desire to place blame / be right can cause issues that can otherwise be avoided. I wonder how the run could have gone if i didnt intially reply with something that would lead to an argument. Focus on clearing the run over being right, and many horror stories will go away.

^ how do you even wipe on the first boss in Qarn HM? Even being new doesn't seem like a good enough reason. It does like no damage.

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Originally Posted by Rivxkobe

^ how do you even die to the first boss in Qarn HM? Even being new doesn't seem like a good enough reason. It does like no damage.

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they didnt know they needed to get out of the quicksand or focus the glowing body part.......
it was an interesting run to say the least, but overall i'd say it was one best experiences i've had in an ffxiv dungeon. I am glad that run happened

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Originally Posted by Yuyuka3

Except that if the healer has no MP, and the DPS no TP, he pulled far more than 'as much as they collectively can handle'. Actually, they quite obviously overpulled and didn't give anyone time to recover, either. It's also not about making it easy on the healer. The OP didn't ask to make it easy. They asked to make it manageable. And, frankly, even I as WHM start to panic if the tank drops like a stone even though I throw all the tools I have at him to keep him alive... because I know that after I spent them all, there's nothing I can do anymore, and if he drops that hard, I will run out of them quickly. Also, to make it worse, he abused his healer. At this point, it's not about performance anymore. It's about if you are willing to put up with abuse - which you shouldn't be. Name calling shouldnever be tolerated.

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I read the OP as implying that the party didn't actually wipe. In which case, what's the big deal? If they did in fact wipe several times, then you're absolutely right and the tank overpulled.

Not going to argue whether calling someone "lazy" is abuse that necessitates an immediate exit from the party. I accept that your stance reflects the official view.

I would however endorse winsock's comment above - de-escalation is imo the mature thing to do in these situations.

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Originally Posted by winsock

they didnt know they needed to get out of the quicksand or focus the glowing body part.......

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I remember doing it when it first came out (different account). I don't think I've encountered anyone who has died to quicksand.

We didnt actually got wiped but we do die a couple of times, mostly from the dps. And i do feel bad since i quit right at the mob before final boss, but the whisp from the dps (drg btw) kind of relieved me (he seem "okay" with it), and for thanks i party with him later on for "compensation" (fast queue time for me afterall), cant whisp the other dps though maybe he had enough and call it a day.

I know if we forced through it maybe we could finish the DG but, this is me personally i just cant hold it anymore, i know it has nothing to do with the game but i just cant stand it, i keep thinking if we finish this run this tank is just going to keep doing this absurd playstyle which i assure you it stress you out especially for healer, and i swear by eorzea if this playstyle become the norm in the future iam going back to dps full time.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

If only people would learn how to pull properly. Seems to be a big issue in this game, not enough focus on the process just the ends.
Better luck finding tanks who can read the group comp and understand what can work. Maybe people will eventually find out that AoE DPS is substantially lower than Single Target and pretty much hinges on the healer's throughput and endurance.

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This is the problem, in a nutshell. There are too many "monkey see, monkey do" tanks who imitate what they see on Twitch or wherever elitists post their stuff as if it were gospel. Some of these sheep try this madness in Stone Vigil, of all places. The mentality needs to be stopped.

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Originally Posted by OcieKo

If only people would learn how to pull properly. Seems to be a big issue in this game, not enough focus on the process just the ends.
Better luck finding tanks who can read the group comp and understand what can work. Maybe people will eventually find out that AoE DPS is substantially lower than Single Target and pretty much hinges on the healer's throughput and endurance.

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Ugh, so much this. Last night's two roulettes for me were:
1. Tank in shire gear who thinks that's good enough to do big pulls in Doma Castle, dies every single time I do anything other than spam Cure 2 non stop, and *passes* on all loot (all of which was upgrades).
2. Tank who doesn't bother using Vrill on Lakshmi three times in a row (along with two DPS), and the other tank (who ended up with the boss) sitting in Sword Oath constantly.

Not a night to restore my faith in humanity. :P