Our utility sucks and the dps difference isn't large enough to warrant our existence in a party from a utilitarian standpoint. Please give more party utility of some sort, or dps. Please don't actually give us more DPS- I don't want to be stuck in an OT only position again for another 2 years.
More self sustain would be great, considering that's supposed to be Warrior's design and all. Bloodbath + 300% on IB would be stellar. I can cave on Bloodbath if Path got buffed to at least 100% or something. Or an option for shields. Or something. I don't actually care what I just want more self sustain. Something with a similar overall effectiveness to Clemency would be good.
I'd also like if Onslaught didn't cost gauge but whatever.
Periodic Warrior complaint thread
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07-21-2017, 11:44 AMUmbelielPeriodic Warrior complaint thread
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07-21-2017, 04:29 PMMrSmiley
300% on inner beast would be pretty op actually...but its not even 100% anymore =/ why.
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07-21-2017, 05:09 PMReynhartThey can give you more DPS as a MT. For me, what would be cool is to increase the potency of Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone by 25% and remove the "ignores defiance penalty". This way, they'd still do the same damage as before on their own, but they would benefit from Unchained since their effect wouldn't overlap anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbeliel
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07-21-2017, 05:15 PMUmbelielI'd be fine with 200% too, admittedly. But 88% is ridiculously low and 100% was still too low anyway. 150% is... close, but still too low.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSmiley
This would be good too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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07-21-2017, 06:08 PMVejitta
They say they are planning to revamp Shake it Off in incoming updates.
There is high chance they will remade it to the actual group utility. -
07-21-2017, 06:09 PMMirch
gib warrior stun in puvupu
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07-21-2017, 06:18 PMaleph_null
Doing more dps doesn't make you an ideal OT, that's a common misconception. What determines which tank becomes MT/OT is the relative amount of dps loss by MT-ing (including pulling and using enmity combo when necessary).
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07-21-2017, 09:47 PMDortharl
I'm generally uninformed about this stuff as I only started seriously tanking recently, what utility do PLD's have that Warrior's lack?
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07-21-2017, 10:12 PMLeigaonWhat kind of utility would you like to see?Quote:
Originally Posted by Umbeliel
I do not think you'll see anything that will keep you alive so much in the DPS stance, but I always thought it would be nice if IB did something depending on your stance that you're using.
They could go a long way with this.
Though I've been screwing with war since 1.0, i'm new to this b/c I'm actually looking at what I'm doing so don't take what I say 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by Dortharl
I think this person means more along the lines of party utility. In some cases a PLD will pop Passage of Arms for us to get behind, or a will give The Blackest Night. While Warrior, we don't have much to help the party out. Then again every time I ask a question in these forums I get told the last veteran who told me about stuff is an idiot and to listen to them.
Then again, most of these complaints come from a raid standpoint and I find no point in doing savage so I tend to fade away after that. -
07-21-2017, 10:14 PMBluexBird
Honestly, Onslaught is fine with the cost. If you're gonna change that in any way, just adjust the potency. It's not like Warriors couldn't use the damage increase given their lack of utility.
As for our sustain, I agree that it sucks. Inner Beast heals you for 88% of the damage dealt now, and Storm's Path for 44%.
The Steel Cyclone buff was a joke and I have no idea why they went with it. The sustain you get from it is like throwing a pebble into the ocean and saying the sea level has risen. It's not even equal to 1 monster's autoattack, let alone a bunch of them. And if you're using Steel Cyclone, chances are you're getting hit by a lot of things at once.
Also, buff Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone damage so that it ends up getting benefited by Unchained... for this idea to be viable, Unchained's duration would have to be increase by A LOT, or else people still wouldn't use it. 20 seconds for a 2-minute cooldown skill, is just not worth it when you consider you'll only be getting 3-4 uses out of it with the increased potency. I mean, it wouldn't be HORRIBLE per se, but when you consider Unchained shares a cooldown with Inner Release, it's not viable.
In many fights, the bosses will do an AoE attack that hits REALLY hard. If some people are at low HP, they will die from this. As a Paladin, you can quickly save them with:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dortharl
1. Cover
2. Intervention
3. Divine Veil (though this would require cooperation from the healers)
I was gonna say Passage of Arms too but this one is not realistic since it would require them to be smart enough to come stand behind you.
As a Warrior, if you notice situations like these, there is nothing you can do other than watching them die.
Here is an example - during the second savage fight, Catastrophe uses a really heavy AoE attack that brings everyone who isn't a tank down to 2k-5k. If the healers aren't ready with some form of shield, people end up dead. If a Paladin is in the fight, they can either use Divine Veil or Passage of Arms, which helps the healers out A LOT and makes sure everyone ends up living. -
07-21-2017, 10:16 PMReynhartTransferable and raid-wide mitigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dortharl
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07-21-2017, 10:49 PMUmbelielQuote:
Originally Posted by Dortharl
Thank you both for asking! Bluebird touched on it pretty well, and Leigaon pretty much has the idea. Utility(and to a lesser extent, identity) is pretty much the purpose of taking any nonspecific job to content over any other given one. What we contribute to the team as a whole. Paladin has a pretty good selection of utility in Clemency, Intervention, and Cover- skills that help protect and keep the party alive. Warrior used to have this in Path, and more problematically as the only source of slashing debuff with Eye.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leigaon
Other good and easy examples would be Ninja, who has trick attack and a variety of enmity modification skills. Even Samurai has utility in it's own way- it's dps is significantly high enough to compensate for the LACK OF utility, which is utility in itself(which is why I mentioned Warrior's dps lead not being large enough to compensate). Dragoon has Litany, etc etc.
Obviously the purpose of simply "tank" is fulfilled just fine, but that's the bare minimum. What else does it do? Why am I here? Why should anyone take me to parties? What's my purpose outside of tanking? Coming from 1.0 and 2.0 and the class quests, we're given the impression that it's either a dps or a lifesteal/self sustain tank but as time goes on they only really seem to take away our healing, leaving us with dps. But our dps isn't really all that far ahead of the other tanks either, never really has been(Though your mileage may vary here in how you interpret the numbers, but generally speaking even at the end of HW the dps potential of a Paladin compared to a Warrior wasn't more than 5% or so. I don't remember the exact numbers.).
To answer Lei's question, I don't actually care too much what the utility is. More lifesteal + increased recieved heals and turn us into a sort of set & forget tank? Sure. Exceptionally higher dps and we're the samurai of tanks? Sure, I can roll with that even if I don't actually want to just be an extra dps that can also tank. Group buffs via war cries? Shields similar to adloquium? Demoralizing shouts? I seriously don't care at all, I just want to know what I'm supposed to be.
Also, worth noting, it's only kind of from a raid standpoint. The issues of balance, identity and utility actually affect casual and midcore players more than hardcore- a hardcore raider will, generally, not actually care what class they're playing. Usually just the role. Warrior having merit in the eyes of someone who doesn't care and will just use whatever is best doesn't really matter so much. Conversely, someone who identifies with a class and sticks with it for life at the hindrance of their party members because it's weaker than what that person could be. The latter person is waaaay more likely to be casual or midcore, and that's why this matters at all. -
07-22-2017, 12:24 AMTufelhunden
I like the War Cries idea.
War cries is what we should bring. Instead of switching stances and going dps, how about we spend our gauge and issue a war cry giving our rage to the party increasing dps and/or heals by X% for 20 secs. -
07-22-2017, 12:50 AMwhiskeybravoDouble war comps for 40 sec dps increases lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Tufelhunden
I think DPS buffs should be mainly on DPS classes. I kind of like the Thrill of War suggestions, though so many people are complaining about excessive HP I can't see them being satisfied with a raid wide HP increase.
I think a unique ability for war would be something like "Sacrifices 25% of current HP to create a damage absorbing shield on ally party member". Or just a straight up heal since the other tanks have a shield already. Or, they probably wouldn't do this but give war something like the old Storm's Path damage reduction. That was like the perfect/minimal amount of utility needed. -
07-22-2017, 01:05 AMBluexBirdThey could have done that with the stance swap penalty. I had suggested in another thread once that instead of the lost beast gauge points just getting lost, they get convertred into buffs for the Warrior. Defiance to Deliverance giving extra damage for a few seconds, and Deliverance to Defiance giving you a Bloodbath effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tufelhunden
But the idea of making THAT be our utility would have been AWESOME! Just imagine, filling up your beast gauge in Defiance... then when you switch to Deliverance, you lose half of your gauge, but everyone nearby gets increased damage for a few seconds based on how much gauge you lost!
And if you change from Deliverance to Defiance, they'd get a buff that increases their max HP for a few seconds or something.
Sadly, with the penalty now gone, I feel we won't be getting something like that anymore. :c -
07-22-2017, 01:27 AMTufelhunden
They could put a debuff that lasts 30 or 60 seconds so another warrior can't give the same cry. That way it can't be abused like you talk about. I'm just trying to think about party utility we could give other than being the top DPS tank. Heck split the heals and DPS rallying cries to make us choose one or the other and the debuffs affects both.
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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo