Paladin nerf INC

They are pulling even or MORE then a warrior, they also bring more then a warrior and lawl to drks, they aren't doing so well, they have been left in the dust.

fflogs has them posted, the proof everyone.


I don't see paladins lasting long like this.

Highest warrior parse is right now 3198.8 and pld 3200.5 both players are in the same team and same balance rate. Dps actually seems pretty similar, pld may just lot easier play.

Hoping they bring DRK/WAR up to the level and not just bringing PLD down

i rather see them buff WAR to their 3.x level than go to nerfing city

I mean, the top number for Lakshimi is a WAR. WAR nerfs incoming?

It looks like DPS-wise they've done a good job with the tanks. In terms of OT utility PLD might be slightly too strong, but DRK is in an OK place as well. WAR's utility sadly rests on buffing SCH with Defiance and SCH is garbage-tier right now so WAR is not in a great place utility-wise. In raids SCH might make a bit of a comeback so maybe WAR utility will also recover, but it is somewhat stupid design that WAR buffs SCH and not other healers.

In terms of DPS, NIN and SAM are looking like they might need a nerf. SAM parsing 10% higher than anybody else is too much, no party utility makes up for that. NIN is parsing together with MNK and BRD while bringing Trick Attack, which is also clearly too much.

Logs show dsp between the 3 tanks are pretty close which is great. Exactly how it should be. Now they need to makes sure the mitigation/utility of the 3 are similar.

Why nerfing PLD and why the dps? The numbers are very close.

This is not what people are complaining about.
WAR need better mechanics and enmity tools.

(or i don't understand anything anymore :confused:)

Nope. No need and working as intended. Though they could build shield oath gage faster.

Not going to happen. Some fixs for WAR, a fix on accessories for all tanks iswhats to come. Let PLD be relavent. I stuck with them through HW. Give us our time to shine

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

They are pulling even or MORE then a warrior, they also bring more then a warrior and lawl to drks, they aren't doing so well, they have been left in the dust.

fflogs has them posted, the proof everyone.


I don't see paladins lasting long like this.

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As a pld in 3.0 I could always pull more than a warrior but never more than a drk.

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Originally Posted by Pinkie_Pie

They are pulling even or MORE then a warrior, they also bring more then a warrior and lawl to drks, they aren't doing so well, they have been left in the dust.

fflogs has them posted, the proof everyone.


I don't see paladins lasting long like this.

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Why ever would that be? Warrior was pre-eminent for at least one whole expansion cycle.

Anyone who says with a straight face that they did a good job with tank balance when the PLD Tank with the most utility and one of the best migitation options also offers the best or at least competitive damage over Warrior, while Warrior has NO relevant utilities at all to speak of, should immediately check their innate logic facilities for regular maintenance.

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Originally Posted by Thoro39

Anyone who says with a straight face that they did a good job with tank balance when the PLD Tank with the most utility and one of the best migitation options also offers the best or at least competitive damage over Warrior, while Warrior has NO relevant utilities at all to speak of, should immediately check their innate logic facilities for regular maintenance.

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My Paladin's innate logic faculty is still recovering from 3 and a half years of being universally recognized as the least good tank.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Nope. No need and working as intended. Though they could build shield oath gage faster.

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Try using Holy Spirit. It builds 20 Oath per cast while in Shield Oath only.

What warrior needs is substantially higher dps than the other two to make up to having no raid utility.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

What warrior needs is substantially higher dps than the other two to make up to having no raid utility.

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This. If they want war to bring 0 utility to the raid, thats fine as long as its the tradeoff for doing the highest dps by a decent margin. Right now its maybe 100 dps disparity at best, but id gladly sacrifice that miniscule dps gain to bring all the utility of pld instead. Pld is in a good spot right now, the other tanks just need buffs.

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Originally Posted by Dizzy_Derp

What warrior needs is substantially higher dps than the other two to make up to having no raid utility.

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DRK says hi and notifies you they bring even less.

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Originally Posted by Niyuka

DRK says hi and notifies you they bring even less.

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Dark at least has highest dps in tank stance and brings TBN, both great aspects for progression. I agree dark needs work too but theyre in a better spot than war atm

I'd rather they didn't nerf PLD. In fact I think it could still use a buff to how quickly the oath gauge fills in shield oath (since I heard its way too slow compared to sword oath.)

WAR just needs to have its clunkiness removed. I'm fine with losing utility, but it sucks to lose the fun.

I dont see how you can say PLD need a nerf... seriously, after how many years this game as been running and making the PLD the worst tank to play from start to end of HW you sit there and have the audacity to bitch about PLD being able to TANK properly because the special WAR class got brought down a peg or two.

No if anything Total Eclipse needs changing to actually add the benefit of Enmity when using since it doesn't exactly scream out the same as a WAR using overpower.

Had enough of the community when it comes to the crying, get over it

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Originally Posted by Tankstuff

This. If they want war to bring 0 utility to the raid, thats fine as long as its the tradeoff for doing the highest dps by a decent margin. Right now its maybe 100 dps disparity at best, but id gladly sacrifice that miniscule dps gain to bring all the utility of pld instead. Pld is in a good spot right now, the other tanks just need buffs.

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Maybe we'll see how they scale once we're out of our "baby's first 70 gear."

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Originally Posted by Felorr

Maybe we'll see how they scale once we're out of our "baby's first 70 gear."

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? base potencies of our skills arent going to magically change with better gear, damage between tanks will still be the same in comparison to how they are now

Still going to main Pld even if they nerf it to the ground. This is final fantasy, not a simple mmrpg like other game. Don't follow the meta follow the fantasy....

I mean every class is at risk for nerfs no matter what. Better option would be to consider what buffs or changes the other two classes need instead of declaring the sky is falling. Paladins certainly have an abundance of utility since I last played when ARR was brand new. We have a lot of great MT and OT abilities, which to be fair the Paladins main role since ARR was to be a Tank archetype, while the Warrior could fill DPS roles to a certain extent and tank as well. I think the more productive thing to do would be to consider what the DRK and Warrior need to bring to the group so that they are just as lucrative a team member as a Paladin is currently.

Pld do not need a nerf, the other two need a buff. DPS order Should be War>Drk>Pld but all within 50-100 of each other played at max capacity, there has to be a sacrifice for having better mitigation (pld) and less mitigation (war) and the middle ground (Drk). It shouldn't be Pld best of both worlds, but I'd hate to see them get a nerf (though that Oath Gauge, what is the point honestly?)

Honestly PLD is fine where it is now. I can see them maybe toning down the potency for HS but other than that the job is in a good spot. They should buff/tweak WAR and DRK though.

Yeah PLD doesn't need this much DPS, they use a one hand sword and a shield, this is out of proportion, they should be THE weakest class, even behind healers cause healers use modafawking magic.

PLD's dont need a nerf, other tanks need a buff. And no "PLDs were weak for HW" is terrible logic. The game should strive for balance, not fotm. As it stands, PLDs offer better everything: easier to pull off DPS, higher baseline mitigation, higher active mitigation, WAY higher utility. DRKs at least bring some utility and have higher MT DPS. Then we have WAR who offers zero utility and while they can pull of equal levels of DPS compared to other tanks, they also have to go through a lot more to do so.

All this brouhaha about buffing wars, nerfing plds etc, is the result of simply inhaling ones own flatulence whilst gaming.

Continuance

in order to do so, one must bag the saucy gasses for a said number of hours. Thus inhalling your spread in all its buoyant glory

THIZZ FACE

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Originally Posted by Tila

PLD's dont need a nerf, other tanks need a buff. And no "PLDs were weak for HW" is terrible logic. The game should strive for balance, not fotm.

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I think this pretty much says everything as a whole about tank buffs/nerfs.

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Originally Posted by AmandaLashaquoa

Yeah PLD doesn't need this much DPS, they use a one hand sword and a shield, this is out of proportion, they should be THE weakest class, even behind healers cause healers use modafawking magic.

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They shouldn't be behind healers, they also use magic when fighting with their swords. It should be War>Drg>Pld all very close in dps. More on the more mitigation(less dps) vs less mitigation(more dps) sacrifice

It may be more work to buff the WAR and DRK up to the PLD's level, but damned if it won't provide a better outcome than just flat out nerfing PLD. People shouldn't be striving for the balance of one at the cost of another.

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Originally Posted by Kerwin

Nope. No need and working as intended. Though they could build shield oath gage faster.

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At higher levels the shield oath gauge goes up so fast you won't know what to do with it half the time

I thought it was really slow until I got holy spirit

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Originally Posted by Otorinth

It may be more work to buff the WAR and DRK up to the PLD's level, but damned if it won't provide a better outcome than just flat out nerfing PLD. People shouldn't be striving for the balance of one at the cost of another.

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The big problem is that PLD simply has way to much utility. You cant fix that unless you either flat out REMOVE their stuff, or give WAR and DRK whole new things or add effects to what they have.

So long as PLD has more utility than the others, it has to lose out somewhere: either defense or damage. They can't keep it all unless square is willing to overhaul the tanks.

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Originally Posted by Dj_Seaghost

It should be War>Drg>Pld all very close in dps.

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Poor Dragoons that are behind tanks in damage! :P

oops lol of course I meant DRK, but on that note drg could use a little more dps :)

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Poor Dragoons that are behind tanks in damage! :P

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Well, their agro management against the ground is off the charts so they have to be balanced out in the tank meta somehow.

Yep, that's right. I'm dropping some old school lol, drg love.

Bonus.
Q: What did the the DRG say when he zoned into an all dps group for PotD?
A: Don't worry, I can tank the floor.

As a paladin myself, I must say I think they need an extreme nerf. Stupid amounts of utility, good damage, able to block physical and magical damage. They seem to have all of the upsides with none of the downsides that DRK/WAR has. I think reducing their damage by 90% while increasing their enmity in Shield Oath only to compensate would be a good enough nerf. Extreme looking? Definitely, but with all the utility the PLD brings, I think it'll be needed. That way if you want a balance of damage and utility, you take DRK, and for all out damage (near enough), take WAR. Where you need lots of defence and utility, take PLD. Make each one situational and useful in different ways.

War an DRK just need a few changes to the skills, PLD is suppose to be the utility tank an high mitigation, i can see maybe the dps getting a little nerf(or war an drk dps buff) but thats about it not in utility.
PLD: high mitigation an raid/self utility "the wall tank", trading damage for defense an protection of alleys
WAR: The aggressive selfish tank with self sustain sacrificing defense to get damage output not caring about others but himself " The one army man"
DRK: 50/50 of those not sure, never really understand the DRK spot on tanks besides knowing they got better magic defense. "The darkest Black" xD

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

War an DRK just need a few changes to the skills, PLD is suppose to be the utility tank an high mitigation, i can see maybe the dps getting a little nerf(or war an drk dps buff) but thats about it not in utility.
PLD: high mitigation an raid/self utility "the wall tank", trading damage for defense an protection of alleys
WAR: The aggressive selfish tank with self sustain sacrificing defense to get damage output not caring about others but himself
DRK: 50/50 of those not sure, never really understand the DRK spot on tanks besides knowing they got better magic defense.

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They are for the edgelords spot