Please end this nonsense

Winning isn't everything, but afk'ing and getting exp is! :)

Promoting mediocrity has gone on long enough and no you don't deserve anything for coming last place. The fact you still get EXP for doing next to nothing is mind blowing, in essence you are rewarding people for actually bucking the system. I'm not just here to whine but for example in feast, winning team gets exp, losing team gets jack. Why? Because it's a competitive game. It's almost as bad as schools in the UK giving participation medals and there's no such thing as last place. So the person in first get's exactly what the dude in last gets, what kind of message does that send to anyone trying to be better?

So here's an idea, for frontline it should be first place gets max exp, 2nd place gets half that exp and if you come third hey just because we'll whine if we get nothing you get a cute little exp boost so you can have better luck next time.

EDIT 04/07/2017:

WELL DONE square for taking a step in the right direction. I'm sure people will be upset they can no longer netflix and chill and get the exp they wanted. My heart goes out to you, it really does. So many good series on at the moment. If you haven't watched season 2 of attack on titan I highly recommend it. Hopefully in the future they can possibly implement an exp reward based on an individuals performance such as overall damage, kills, assists bases captured, etc. However I am MORE than happy with this change for the time being. I understand that people are upset they MIGHT lose based on their teams performance thus not getting the rewarded they wanted but hey veteran PVPers have dealing with that for years now you can too I'm sure :)

I think it should be either remove pve exp from any pvp mode or only the winner gets xp, then we will see people wintrading feast for 4% exp.

I do agree if you win you win everything, if you lose you lose and dont get anything, no partecipation rewards.

I agree there shouldn't be anything gained from anything less than 1st, maybe 1st gets exp + tombstones, 2nd gets tombstones and 3rd get's none. I'm in a small PVP discord of about 100 players and the general consensus of everyone is that the quality of games has been diminished by introducing the exp gain and now the surplus of AFK'ers. The sad thing however this opinion is only popular among those who play to PVP, people who play the odd game on the weekend will say different.

Probably from the developers point of view, not having a reward for losing means people won't queue because it's a risk and you could waste your time. These people would only PvP if everything else was worse for exp - probably the case for DPS right now. I think the exp/tomes is fine, especially for those people who are queuing for dailies, but there should be an incentive to win that's not exp/tomes or to making kicking easier to encourage participation.

Make a 70 bg only so 30 to 69 and then pure 70 end of story

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Originally Posted by Yoruno

Winning isn't everything, but afk'ing and getting exp is! :)

Promoting mediocrity has gone on long enough and no you don't deserve anything for coming last place. The fact you still get EXP for doing next to nothing is mind blowing, in essence you

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While I agree with this to an extent let me just say if you dont have friends that will literally level with you , then right now pvp is about the only way your gona level a dps. I dont agree with people afk, but without potd this is literally the only way to level a dps job. I dont even like to pvp as much as I have been, I did simply enjoy just doing my front lines just once a day and having fun before the exp boast, but now unless you wana go crazy pvp is the only way to level a dps.

And if we are being real then even if you are good at pvp doesnt mean your gona win every match as we are talkin about teams of 24 in frontlines. To me the problem is game design there is nothing enjoyable about spamming pvp for exp I actually hate it, there is nothing enjoyable about doing potd to level a dps over and over, SE needs to come up with better ways for dps to level instead of forcing them to do one thing.

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Originally Posted by Paragnie

not having a reward for losing means people won't queue because it's a risk and you could waste your time.

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All due respect that's not true at all. PVP was active with the garo event which didn't have an EXP award, as well as being active before that just as well. There is and were incentives for playing even before exp, titles, awards, mounts. The players who are making this queue pop now are hardly contributing or even trying to learn to become better. At least in garo people would actively try and win. Now it's like hey I really don't care if I win or lose, because I get a big exp boost so why should I even bother?

1st place should only get exp & tomes, 2nd place only gets tomes and half the exp and 3rd place gets tomes and an exp bonus for the next time they win, similar to how it works in fates. PVP should be kept competitive, if you want exp. PoTD is there for you.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

right now pvp is about the only way your gona level a dps. .

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I'm sure palace of the dead is more than viable. And I'm sure people in there wouldn't take kindly to a player afk'ing either.

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Originally Posted by Yoruno

I'm sure palace of the dead is more than viable. And I'm sure people in there wouldn't take kindly to a player afk'ing either.

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The problem with afk'ing in PotD is that the others cannot proceed to the next floor, therefore never end the instance.

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Originally Posted by Yoruno

I'm sure palace of the dead is more than viable. And I'm sure people in there wouldn't take kindly to a player afk'ing either.

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actually its not pvp doesnt scale with your level pvp on the other hand just gets better the higher the level u are, The thing is SE just kinda does things and they dont care the results afterwards. They new very well that by allowing pvp to give exp what was gona happen , I think they just wanted more people doing it in the end. And now its kinda ruined pvp, it isnt as fun as it was before sb, half the time u end up in groups wit no healer out of all 24 players it actually sucks. I guess when the new potd comes out then maybe pvp can get back to its competitive former self but until then the problem continue .

Gotta get me some free chicken. Yummy.

I don't mind players earning experience from PVP (i.e Shatter).

However, I don't think that 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place should be the same XP amount. 3rd place should be substantially lower than first. It's stupid how many people in Shatter just go full on retard, I'm talking like pants on head retarded, ignoring objectives/callouts because "you don't pay my sub, XP is the same no matter what rank". Or the guys that go AFK or deliberately throw games. :mad:

SE, either change the amount of XP gained for placement or remove it entirely.

No as said let the xp. ers from 30 to 69 have there day and let the 70 do the real pvp

Give 1st the max exp bonus and give second and third max bonus to thoses that really participate (with highs scores), and allow for a one hit button report (alliance wide).

Everything that is happening here is solved if the experience gained was based on how the group has remained in Frontline.

Here's some perspective for you.

I like the pvp. I wouldn't throw a match just to get exp and I believe that's wrong. If I didn't get exp all the time, I wouldn't que for it. As much as I like PVP right now, getting my jobs to 70 and getting them raid ready is more important IMO. I'd have to ingore it because it would be a waste of my time when I know I need to get ready for the raid coming. There's a lot I need to do and if pvp didn't offer exp I wouldn't be able to do it.


However I can see why people wouldn't want it.

Rewards should be based on performance metrics like damage / healing done, kills, assist, etc. With a bonus reward going to the winner only.

Scale rewards based on contribution similar to a FATE and base it on their job so people cannot just run around the map or endlessly just attack ice and sprint past everything else.

Some people are even just tapping a key on the shatter base points and claiming they are defending when they are really just watching youtube and claiming they were ganked when a lone enemy goes to bust them up.

The winner should get a bonus and it should be a significant XP bonus, like 1.5 more.

I'd rather have PvE rewards tied to a contribution metric rather than a strict "Last place gets jack squat." While I do agree people shouldn't be rewarded for doing nothing, at the same time there can only be one winner in a match. PvE rewards in this game tend to be that if you spend your time and enough effort, you get your rewards. In PvP however, even if you're at the top of your game you could wind up against a team as equally skilled as you are.

I would love to see PvP as something that draws people in with quick xp for DPS, requires them to participate, and then hooks them with close and exciting matches. For this to happen, it needs to be a viable method of xp, even for people new to PvP.

Also on a side note, AFKers CAN be on teams that win if everyone else carries them and the other team sucks. I've seen it happen.

Think we're over complicating the issue here.

Exp for PvP isn't the issue. It being the fastest method to level is.

Reduce (not eliminate) the overall exp regardless of winning or losing and those who are afking or not caring will stop joining... leaving only those interested in PvP to play.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

Reduce (not eliminate) the overall exp regardless of winning or losing

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Something like 600k for 1st 450k for 2nd and 300k for 3rd could be good balance, not too much but still decent amout even if you happen to lose. Currently it doesnt matter if you win or lose you still get exp worth of 8-9 side quests that surely can take more time than 10-15min FL match.

Just make 30 to 69 be in there own bracket and 70 in a seperat...have i written this before...?...Well it would solve the xp issue it at once.

Although I like the idea of encouragement to win, everyone always says "it's based on RNG." In other words there are times where you'll get lucky and be put on a team that participates, knows how to play the mode, have objectives near your spawning point, and win. More than usual though you'll only get one out of all these possibilities in a match.

So here's my idea. instead of "giving people something because they participated" instead give people exp based on how many points they accrued. Then 2nd gets 50% more and 1st gets 100% more. this way the desire to be first is still there as well as the desire for a long match that was close to have a decent payout to everyone that actually tried their best.

I, honestly don't agree with the concept of nerfing EXP at all. Face it, right now, it draws new players towards PvP content, this means it makes the content more attractive overall - content that, honestly, needed bodies. Penalizing AFK harder and reporting people exploiting the system should be had yes. But we don't, in any way, want to discourage PvP through the leveling process - as that brings new blood into the fold to become PvP fans and serious players. Instead, like the Feast, there should be a Ranked Frontline system for those who desire to play seriously. Have a frontline set of rewards specific to the content and remove exp benefits from that.

Any argument for nerfing EXP rewards would have the same effect in reducing players who afk, and other poor behaviors when players are wanting to take battles seriously. However instead of discouraging players from playing PvP in total, this idea provides the ideal environment for those who want to play large-number PvP more seriously, while still enticing the bulk of the players to play and possibly become serious. Elsewise, we doom PvP to remain marginalized content with a vast minority of people even trying it out - when the goal here is to get SE to take the content more seriously.

i think the best solution would o have the the current amount of exp be the baseline 2nd place gets more and first gets more than that that why it still gives enough exp to make people want to do it and gives people doing it for exp incentive to win

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

But we don't, in any way, want to discourage PvP through the leveling process - as that brings new blood into the fold to become PvP fans and serious players.

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You start bringing new blood into pvp the moment they like it for what is it, not because it brings xp/tomes or whatever. People that queue only frontlines roulette will keep doing it. those who will queue because they are bored of pve will play a few matches a day. And those who only come here for farming exp will still not care and afk as much as they can. If afkers could do it in dungeon/potd, they would. Only way to get rid of them is to nerf/remove xp. We won't miss them.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Instead, like the Feast, there should be a Ranked Frontline system for those who desire to play seriously. Have a frontline set of rewards specific to the content and remove exp benefits from that.

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This is a really bad idea. Right now, jobs are poorly balanced and you can't balance jobs according to frontlines standards, or you would need have matchmaking puting 2 tanks/2 heals/2melee/2range. And matchmaking was the thing that made frontlines pops so bad before 3.5 and drove out lots of players that had even a tiny bit of interest in FL.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Any argument for nerfing EXP rewards would have the same effect in reducing players who afk, and other poor behaviors when players are wanting to take battles seriously. Elsewise, we doom PvP to remain marginalized content with a vast minority of people even trying it out - when the goal here is to get SE to take the content more seriously.

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Currently, all rewards earned in pvp that aren't mount/glamour are meant for pve (tome/xp). SE is still making pvp as a stepping stone for pve, only exception being ranked feast. Nobody will take pvp seriously as long as it's going that way, and keep gathering people that will just come exp or tomes.

So at least, reduce xp earned in pvp for last place. In frontlines, those who lost a match are granted a bonus for the next time they win, till then, they must not get full xp.
In feast: no xp at all for the losing team. It sounds harsh but it's needed:
1st: 4v4 ranked, no need to say more, you're not here to get xp.
2nd: 8v8 is supposed to be "training mode", despite the fact they should add a 4v4 training cause it's completely different. Anyway, a new player will never find this mode entertaining as long as people keep throwing match for xp.

And sincerely, by the time GM starts taking serious actions, half life 3 will be out. Only time they took actions was 1 month after the release of feast, then we never saw them again.

Move to JP datacenter? I've never seen the AFK issue occur. Everyone participates in some capacity - even if that's pretty shocking in some instances.

Shut, you're never going to get people that way. And This isn't a "Go hard or go home" game. Same thing for Storymode raids.

FFXIV is in large part PvE content. It makes sense that rewards in PvP help go to PvE achievements, especially seeming those are scaling and PvP currently is not. I know you're not going to agree with me on any further points on the topic so I'd rather spare the time enjoying the game than getting into heated debate. Let's just disagree. In the end, it's SE's decision and I don't feel as if following your line of thinking is ultimately a healthy one for the game or the game mode - perhaps the developers will agree with you more. I don't know.

Permaban anyone who afk's in pvp. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Rewards should be based on performance metrics like damage / healing done, kills, assist, etc. With a bonus reward going to the winner only.

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As I said in another thread, literally this. Also make the bonus reward for winning like a 1.5x boost or something.

That way people who do lots and win get lots of exp, while people who won but didn't do anything still get nothing because they did nothing.

People who lost but did a lot still get a lot, which would be more than people on the winning team who did nothing, since they contributed a lot more.

Do things, get exp; afk, get no exp.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Shut, you're never going to get people that way. And This isn't a "Go hard or go home" game. Same thing for Storymode raids.

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Don't get me wrong, PvP has his casual side as well and it's perfectly fine. I may have used a poor choice of word, but what I meant is that PvP should be able to drag more people byt itself, not just by being another PotD. New players that will eventually come there for a first time by curiosity before everything else. But showing them a Frontline were people just "guard base", or a 8v8 where half of the team is throwing match. They'll just end up not going there anymore once they'll reach 70.


I think lots of people only see rewards as the only effective way to drag players in this mode, it's true it has a role in this, but that's not the only reason. Leaving aside Garo event and right now the exp gain, there were 2 moments in 3.x series where people started playing a lot frontlines again; 1st it was between 3.0 and 3.1, pops were not so bad despite having the stupid GC restriction, ofc, not much during night (ppl still need to sleep). 2nd was when shatter went out. I think most people wanted at least to give it a try by curiosity. And basically, none of those moments brought any new reward but tomestones ( that was already a thing during ARR, correct me if I'm wrong please)

So ofc, both of them were followed by down time, mostly because PvE got new content that changed people priorities. But IMO, the fact that at that time we still had GC restriction could have stopped some people to keep playing pvp casually. It was kinda a snowball effect: ppl stop queueing because they are doing new PvE content >>matchmaking goes slower >> less pop >> people find wait too long >>Shittier matchmaking >> less pops etc...

What I'm trying to say is that rewards aren't the only thing that brings people to pvp. However, the stupid GC restriction was the main cause that let those modes die.
Devs got it at 3.5, Garo event has been possible because they removed GC restriction. Otherwise, it would have never worked. Put it back now and no one will go in frontlines for xp, no matter how good it is.

[EDIT] However, I stay on my position concerning 4v4 ranked. This the only competitive mode in pvp, people don't go there to get XP, tomes or training (except during pre season ofc). More over, since it's out, matchmaking got worse and worse at the point that having the rank gold in season 3/4 means nothing regarding players skills (30% winrates needed). So yeah, the only people that go there are those that want to try to climb the rank, if that's not the case, just don't.

[EDIT 2]

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

Rewards should be based on performance metrics like damage / healing done, kills, assist, etc. With a bonus reward going to the winner only.

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This is probably the best idea that dev should look into seriously if they want to keep exp as a reward that, while punishing afkers, reward those who actively participate in the match; They should also add the same bonus that is going for tomes: if you lose, next time you win, your xp is increased by x %. That is encouraging for any player that is giving his best.

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Originally Posted by Rilasha

As I said in another thread, literally this. Also make the bonus reward for winning like a 1.5x boost or something.

That way people who do lots and win get lots of exp, while people who won but didn't do anything still get nothing because they did nothing.

People who lost but did a lot still get a lot, which would be more than people on the winning team who did nothing, since they contributed a lot more.

Do things, get exp; afk, get no exp.

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I'm ok with this. Might actually encourage people to pay attention to the objectives. I'm still in favor of banning people who afk in pvp though. No remorse for those that try to abuse a system.

Unbalancing the NON-PvP related rewards (PvP related would be PvP xp and Wolf Marks) would be a HUGE mistake and kill off PvP participation. Enforcing a minimum level of activity would be a good idea but is very hard to implement beyond the afk timer that already exists. Also, this problem must be more prevalent on data centers other than Primal as I have seen very few people actually AFK at least on my teams.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

Unbalancing the NON-PvP related rewards (PvP related would be PvP xp and Wolf Marks) would be a HUGE mistake and kill off PvP participation.

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lol? Current non pvp related rewards, classes/job experience points is unbalanced, it's either remove it or, in case of frontlines, 1st gets xx rewards, 2nd gets less than 1st, 3rd gets less than 2nd; in case of feat training 8v8, the winners get xx rewards and the losers either get nothing or less than winners; in case of ranked feast 4v4, remove exp completely, maybe tomes too, you're there to win, not gain coins tbh.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I, honestly don't agree with the concept of nerfing EXP at all.

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Aaaaand that's the measure they are taking, unfortunately...

"The following adjustments and changes have been made to PvP encounters:

Class/Job EXP gained from participating in PvP encounters has been adjusted to take match durations into account.
Victories and losses will now award different amounts of EXP."

Source: http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...75523012584b54

I hate AFKers and people who don't try in PvP too but honestly all they needed was a kick and be done with it. I don't get why everyone else has to suffer because of it. I love PvP and getting EXP while having fun at the same time? Count me in! It was just the perfect combo, specially to level DPS jobs. The DPS queues are awful. Bored of PVE? Some people are not PvPing solely because they are bored of PvE, it's because the DPS queues for anything are awful at the moment! And honestly PvP is..actually fun. I was planning on leveling my SAM with PvP after finishing my 2nd job, now I am afraid it won't be as gratifying with the nerfed exp if my team ends up losing even if we try our best (and talk about slower progress...). I hope it's not a painful nerf. We can never have nice things because there's always that one... who ruins it for the rest.

I knew measures were needed but they could've done it in a better way. Instead of nerfing, like someone else said, should've been based on healing/damage metrics so AFKers get nothing at all.

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Originally Posted by Tyla_Esmeraude

Aaaaand that's the measure they are taking, unfortunately...

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Think you spelt fortunately wrong. PVP should've never been the best way to level. 2 weeks into a new expansion experiencing huge levels of congestion brand new fates are actually dead in some areas because people are spamming shatter. There's something CLEARLY of conflict there. And yes, it MIGHT be unfair that you come last because you get a bad team and it wasn't your fault thus not getting the outcome you wanted. But veteran PVP'ers have been dealing with it for years and we just got on with it. You can too now :D

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Originally Posted by Yoruno

*snip* But veteran PVP'ers have been dealing with it for years and we just got on with it. You can too now :D

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Well, I won't be using PvP much if at all for leveling now (which is fine I'm not big on PvP.) There will be a ton of people like me who actively participated that will now not bother queueing because I'm not going to get less XP for the same amount of work just because my team is lazy/bad/a few afk's or the usual reason - way less healers than the opposing teams. Honestly I don't really enjoy the new PvP system all that much anyways (I like the combos and less button bloat but ironically without all my utility tools it is boring and annoying) so it will be back to only queueing on a max level job for the free daily roulette tomes, win or lose. I just hope queue times don't go back to being atrocious...

The correct course of action would have been to remove the five minute timer off of PvP duty kick restrictions. If someone was afking, vote-kick them out immediately and hope for someone better. Can't do that in current incarnation in PvP.

Other, non punishment oriented incentives could have also been added for victors. Such as first place players get Wolf Commendations that can be traded in for EXP bonuses for matches, or perhaps traded in for some Exclusive rewards, rather than just Wolf Marks.

There were plenty of better ways of doing this than what was taken. The adjustment was a knee-jerk nerf to a knee-jerk reaction to what was going on. It was far too reactionary and understudied. But, that's what we'll have to deal with in the meanwhile. Hopefully their next adjustment comes with a bit more education and effort behind it.

Better yet if you get vote kicked from pvp you dont gain any exp for a set amount of time.

This could have been fixed by them adding a measure to detect if someone contributed to the match...