Tanks using ilv270 STR acessories

Why would you do that SE?

I really hope raid content don't allow to tanks being squishy and understatus just to do more damage.

You don't pay my sub

Vit scaling or bust

Problem is that people are allowed to change gear to low level stuff while in a dungeon. Bypass the minimum requirements: Then Switch to Str gear.

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Originally Posted by Rasylia

Problem is that people are allowed to change gear to low level stuff while in a dungeon. Bypass the minimum requirements: Then Switch to Str gear.

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The bigger problems are that tanks are entirely more effective using these str accessories.
This wouldn't have been any issue at all if they kept vit scaling and/or didn't lock people out of specific accessories.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

The bigger problems are that tanks are entirely more effective using these str accessories.
This wouldn't have been any issue at all if they kept vit scaling and/or didn't lock people out of specific accessories.

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That#s an entirely different topic. Right now we have to adapt to what we have, and tanks using STR accessories and not knowing their limits is nothing good.
The game allowing this behavior isn't either.

But that's just the old problem we have, like people running around naked in 24p raids and similar... It shouldnt be possible to dequip / switch equip in a dungeon that would lower your ILVL to below the min requirement.

We are back to this lol well it doesn't bother me as a healer as long as the tank knows what they are doing which is maybe 25% of our str tanks

That is because the accessories with strength provide better enmity generation. Which is currently a problem since tenacity is broken

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Why would you do that SE?

I really hope raid content don't allow to tanks being squishy and understatus just to do more damage.

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I healed susano ex for the first time last night where the WAR used the ilvl 270 str rings. He was a breeze to heal compare to the full vit PLD's in tank stance, makes me wonder why.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

I healed susano ex for the first time last night where the WAR used the ilvl 270 str rings. He was a breeze to heal compare to the full vit PLD's in tank stance, makes me wonder why.

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Could be a lot of factors. Your second healer could be more proactive in the WAR run. The PLD could be bad and not mitigating stuff properly, you got the picture.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

I really hope raid content don't allow to tanks being squishy and understatus just to do more damage.

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The i300 ex primal requirements (that a lot of PFs adopt or increase) already stops this from being a thing in anything but dungeons. By the time 4.2 rolls around the ex roulette requirements will be high enough that it can't be done there, either. And statics, well.. if static healers are willing to tolerate it, that's up to them.

When the new crafted accessories release in a few weeks, though, I think we'll see a lot of STR melds. And that will be a way to get STR without worrying about ilvl lockouts.

I will not be embracing this 'alleged' Meta. Was a DRK main in HW, and leveled RDM to 70 first. I'm now leveling my DRK and will use the expansion available accessories.

DPS folks are doing more damage than before, Healers don't have to be in cleric stance any more to throw out DPS, and if remaining in tank stance is required to hold threat while MTing, then so be it.

It appears to me that Tank players are having a hard time adjusting to the changes in the game where they are no longer DPS roles with with more HP. I'm fine with this. the STR focus on the DPS of a tank has always annoyed me - I'd rather enjoy myself by mitigating as much damage as possible, Timing my self heals well, and positioning the boss in such a way as to save my group from harm.

The sooner other tanks can embrace the role of actual tanking, it'll go much better for ya.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

I will not be embracing this 'alleged' Meta. Was a DRK main in HW, and leveled RDM to 70 first. I'm now leveling my DRK and will use the expansion available accessories.

DPS folks are doing more damage than before, Healers don't have to be in cleric stance any more to throw out DPS, and if remaining in tank stance is required to hold threat while MTing, then so be it.

It appears to me that Tank players are having a hard time adjusting to the changes in the game where they are no longer DPS roles with with more HP. I'm fine with this. the STR focus on the DPS of a tank has always annoyed me - I'd rather enjoy myself by mitigating as much damage as possible, Timing my self heals well, and positioning the boss in such a way as to save my group from harm.

The sooner other tanks can embrace the role of actual tanking, it'll go much better for ya.

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Except you can do all of this and DPS, it will just be less enjoyable for those of us that enjoy doing it. Forcing other people to the way you want to be a pure "tank" is as bad as people wanting to force you to emphasize DPS over mitigation. Just let people enjoy their playstyle or a lot of us will just go become DPS. Pure tanking just isnt entertaining enough in this game unless they massively change gameplay to the point most mid-core healers just could not adapt to.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

When the new crafted accessories release in a few weeks, though, I think we'll see a lot of STR melds. And that will be a way to get STR without worrying about ilvl lockouts.

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Advanced melding is not possible for primary stats, so you can't meld any more strength to a crafted accessory than you can to a tomestone/Lakshmi accessory. The i270 accessories will remain the go-to for tanks that want more strength.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

Advanced melding is not possible for primary stats, so you can't meld any more strength to a crafted accessory than you can to a tomestone/Lakshmi accessory. The i270 accessories will remain the go-to for tanks that want more strength.

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I see. Well, I guess ilvl lockouts it is...

I can guarantee you right now I will leave the party if I see any tank with STR accessories on. I don't care if I get a penalty. I will NOT be putting up with this.

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Originally Posted by ToasterMan

I can guarantee you right now I will leave the party if I see any tank with STR accessories on. I don't care if I get a penalty. I will NOT be putting up with this.

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I would politely ask them to change first then hope they are a decent person.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

I healed susano ex for the first time last night where the WAR used the ilvl 270 str rings. He was a breeze to heal compare to the full vit PLD's in tank stance, makes me wonder why.

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Probably because the people more likely to use STR accessories right now are raiders. It hasn't quite caught on to the general populous.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

The i300 ex primal requirements (that a lot of PFs adopt or increase) already stops this from being a thing in anything but dungeons. By the time 4.2 rolls around the ex roulette requirements will be high enough that it can't be done there, either. And statics, well.. if static healers are willing to tolerate it, that's up to them.

When the new crafted accessories release in a few weeks, though, I think we'll see a lot of STR melds. And that will be a way to get STR without worrying about ilvl lockouts.

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That is easily workaround by the tanks swapping to STR accessories after joining. Considering the apparent ease of the EX Primals, that will only be encouraged by more people.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

It appears to me that Tank players are having a hard time adjusting to the changes in the game where they are no longer DPS roles with with more HP. I'm fine with this. the STR focus on the DPS of a tank has always annoyed me - I'd rather enjoy myself by mitigating as much damage as possible, Timing my self heals well, and positioning the boss in such a way as to save my group from harm.

The sooner other tanks can embrace the role of actual tanking, it'll go much better for ya.

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You can already do this with STR accessories. That is precisely why tanks are starting to equip them. It makes no difference whether you have 60k HP or 40k. If the boss' attacks cannot kill you, it's entirely irrelevant.

LAWLS....with these kinds of attitudes...it's no wonder there's no kind of broad customization in this game..from appearances to stats builds. Everything either gets taken away or nonexistent.

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Originally Posted by Lorglath

Forcing other people to the way you want to be a pure "tank" is as bad as people wanting to force you to emphasize DPS over mitigation. Just let people enjoy their playstyle or a lot of us will just go become DPS. Pure tanking just isnt entertaining enough in this game unless they massively change gameplay to the point most mid-core healers just could not adapt to.

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To you and others it may not feel entertaining, but is that due to an actual preference? I think it's actually just years of ingrained DPS tank nonsense / META that the Tank community is being pulled away from kicking and screaming.

A3S accentuated the problem and now in SB the dev team is trying to get away from what that led to. As I mentioned, DPS and healers are all doing more damage. Perhaps tanks now don't NEED to max their DPS to succeed or skip phases. Perhaps mitigating more now allows more DPS from the healer who now has free time to cast? These are all factors people are leaving out of the equation. Encounters are a group effort, not just the Tank's.

Lastly, if any tanks want to change to a DPS class because they remain mad at the changes, I welcome them to. RDM is super fun. I'm willing to put up with the 1 hour que's for roulette's and PF formations... however I'm also willing to bet less than half of the current tanks would feel the same way I do, and will still tank regardless of threats of leaving.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I see. Well, I guess ilvl lockouts it is...

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They would have to enforce it some other way if they really want to get rid of this since you can join things with the correct gear on then just switch it out in the duty. Full parties that meet size requirements also waive the ilvl for entry so that won't prevent anyone from wearing STR. Joining a PF it will, but they can just change them out after they are in the group.

People saying they will only wear str acc in raid should do A9s-A12s without any vit accs, without echo and with minimum ilvl first.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

LAWLS....with these kinds of attitudes...it's no wonder there's no kind of broad customization in this game..from appearances to stats builds. Everything either gets taken away or nonexistent.

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That's not a customization. It's an exploit.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

You can already do this with STR accessories. That is precisely why tanks are starting to equip them. It makes no difference whether you have 60k HP or 40k. If the boss' attacks cannot kill you, it's entirely irrelevant.

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This entire thread is about the problems presented by a Tank wearing STR accessories and struggles they hoist on a group. I'd hardly call that irrelevant.

Just go to the DF thread and you'll already seen numerous examples of the problems that "stuck in their ways" tanks are posing on others.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

I will not be embracing this 'alleged' Meta. Was a DRK main in HW, and leveled RDM to 70 first. I'm now leveling my DRK and will use the expansion available accessories.

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Maybe you should try it before you say "no not for me". If you think it's all about "hurr durr I want to do more DPS as a tank" you're missing the point. Which is that you hold aggro better with STR accessories. Like, I've seen tanks having problems in tank stance.

That being said, substats from accessories will eventually outweigh the STR bonuses from i270 accessories.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

To you and others it may not feel entertaining, but is that due to an actual preference? I think it's actually just years of ingrained DPS tank nonsense / META that the Tank community is being pulled away from kicking and screaming.

A3S accentuated the problem and now in SB the dev team is trying to get away from what that led to. As I mentioned, DPS and healers are all doing more damage. Perhaps tanks now don't NEED to max their DPS to succeed or skip phases. Perhaps mitigating more now allows more DPS from the healer who now has free time to cast? These are all factors people are leaving out of the equation. Encounters are a group effort, not just the Tank's.

Lastly, if any tanks want to change to a DPS class because they remain mad at the changes, I welcome them to. RDM is super fun. I'm willing to put up with the 1 hour que's for roulette's and PF formations... however I'm also willing to bet less than half of the current tanks would feel the same way I do, and will still tank regardless of threats of leaving.

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The Strength accessories also help with enmity generation. While we currently don't have too much of an issue with single target enmity, but AoE emnity can be rather annoying to maintain, especially if the DPS refuse to focus a single target or don't use their enmity reducers.

Even then, the i270 Str accessories are at best a band aid fix developed and at worst a bandwagon people blindly follow (depending on whether or not the tank properly knows how to rotate their cooldowns and coordinate with the healer so the extra HP that they would have gotten from the vitality is unnecessary.

Personally, my hope is that we will go back to the hyrbid Str+Vit tank damage formula in HW because that worked and should have stayed.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

Maybe you should try it before you say "no not for me". If you think it's all about "hurr durr I want to do more DPS as a tank" you're missing the point. Which is that you hold aggro better with STR accessories.

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Did you miss the part where I explained that I'm a Tank main and currently leveling a Tank in SB? I've grouped with tanks who can't hold threat while playing my 70 RDM. on DRK I remain in Tank stance with VIT accessories on and never have problems with threat - I'm certain I won't have problems at 70 either.

The people having problems at 70 are TURNING OFF OR NOT ACTIVATING TANK STANCE to do more damage. I watch it happen. It has nothing to do with STR accessories.

There's no reason to be patronizing.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

People saying they will only wear str acc in raid should do A9s-A12s without any vit accs, without echo and with minimum ilvl first.

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We are talking about current reality of content here. If you want to go down that path, shouldnt we exclude DPS players from content if they couldnt to twintania pre-nerf with old lvl 50 gear?

And generally, are all you people demanding that the only way of alleviating the current HORRID state of at least 2 tanks in the game insane? Have you seen the lack of tanks? the PF queues? Do you think taking away ANYTHING from tank players is making them more likely to play?

Right now, we should all start heaping rewards, goodies and buffs on all the tank classes, whatever it takes to get more of them playing for PF content, because otherwise this game is quickly going "tank or go guild only" for instanced content with limited playtime.

Buff all tanks, give them massive DPS increases (and just go and buff boss HP accordingly), give them QoL, give them exclusive coin rewards that gives them unique minions, mounts, housing items for being Adventurer in Need, stuff that makes people play tank for whatever reason. Dont be crazy and take away even MORE stuff.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

That's not a customization. It's an exploit.

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Whua...? Using ingame items to increase one's damage is now an exploit...Okay...;d

They could just make tank damage scale of vit again and fix tenacity? I dunno, seems like a good start.

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Originally Posted by Natashio

Whua...? Using ingame items to increase one's damage is now an exploit...Okay...;d

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Yeah sure, the devs want us to use 3.5 acessories in 4.0 content. Makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Why would you do that SE?

I really hope raid content don't allow to tanks being squishy and understatus just to do more damage.

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Listen bud. Tanks aren't squishy because they have less HP. Tanks are squishy when tanks don't use the proper mitigation tools or don't have the proper gear for the fight. Last night I was in full 270 STR accessories for Susano and I wasn't having a problem at all. This allowed me to do more dmg as well as tank with no problems at all.

I really hope they decide to do VIT scaling again because this is just sad that I have to do this to help my group out more.

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Originally Posted by Axel_Ward

Listen bud. Tanks aren't squishy because they have less HP. Tanks are squishy when tanks don't use the proper mitigation tools or don't have the proper gear for the fight. Last night I was in full 270 STR accessories for Susano and I wasn't having a problem at all. This allowed me to do more dmg as well as tank with no problems at all.

I really hope they decide to do VIT scaling again because this is just sad that I have to do this to help my group out more.

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I hope savage content kills STR tanks with 2 auto attacks

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Yeah sure, the devs want us to use 3.5 acessories in 4.0 content. Makes sense.

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Did you start 4.0 with 4.0 accessories..or did the game give you 4.0 accessories to you for free upon log in. If these items still have use..then where's the exploit..

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

I hope savage content kills STR tanks with 2 auto attacks

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So a full vit tank will die 3 auto attacks. Is that really any different? Would any pure healers players be able to heal that amount of damage at all? Lol

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Did you miss the part where I explained that I'm a Tank main and currently leveling a Tank in SB? I've grouped with tanks who can't hold threat while playing my 70 RDM. on DRK I remain in Tank stance with VIT accessories on and never have problems with threat - I'm certain I won't have problems at 70 either.

The people having problems at 70 are TURNING OFF OR NOT ACTIVATING TANK STANCE to do more damage. I watch it happen. It has nothing to do with STR accessories.

There's no reason to be patronizing.

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I often keep my tank stance on if it is a pug healer or if the healer is new, as I assume that playing it a little bit safe until I can gauge them a bit better. If I determine that they can handle it, I start dancing. However, even when I do not dance, I have to watch my AoE enmity. Do note that this isn't too much a problem at lower ilvls, but due to the ever increasing damage gap between tanks and dps becomes one at higher and higher ilvls.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

I often keep my tank stance on if it is a pug healer or if the healer is new, as I assume that playing it a little bit safe until I can gauge them a bit better. If I determine that they can handle it, I start dancing. However, even when I do not dance, I have to watch my AoE enmity. Do note that this isn't too much a problem at lower ilvls, but due to the ever increasing damage gap between tanks and dps becomes one at higher and higher ilvls.

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Thanks for the measured response. Ill have to see how things go at 70, but my assumption is that it should be fine, as far as threat is concerned.

Out of curiosity do you use STR accessories still or no? I'm currently geared at 62 in full VIT and haven't seen a problem.

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Originally Posted by Klongol

Did you miss the part where I explained that I'm a Tank main and currently leveling a Tank in SB? I've grouped with tanks who can't hold threat while playing my 70 RDM. on DRK I remain in Tank stance with VIT accessories on and never have problems with threat - I'm certain I won't have problems at 70 either.

The people having problems at 70 are TURNING OFF OR NOT ACTIVATING TANK STANCE to do more damage. I watch it happen. It has nothing to do with STR accessories.

There's no reason to be patronizing.

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I've seen tanks have problems with AoE enmity in tank stance. Maybe they were just bad. *shrug*
Or maybe we're actually right that SE should have never reverted the 0.45 VIT AP calculation. It's a literal fact that damage = enmity. That's just how the game works.

And even if it's fine now that doesn't mean it's always going to be fine. You know DPS are just going to get stronger and stronger as item level increases because unlike tanks they get bonuses from main stats and substats on their right side? It's very short-sighted to say "oh it's fine for me it's never going to be a problem". Tenacity sucks and VIT doesn't give AP. Also, Tank stance only gives you 1.5x aggro due to damage loss (Source). Aggro combo might be enough for now, but it's not going to be good enough forever, and SE takes a long time to fix things.

"That's essentially double with a 1.5k-3k difference; that 6-8% increase in disparity added on to how those ranges and the gap between them are going to rise as we gear up, the difference between the two is going to be huge."

Trust me tanks -at least the high end ones - will be using them in raid content. Unless something is changed before the new raid comes out which I highly doubt.

I thought the STR tank meta was awful when it was a thing a while back, and it still is now. The few times I've been on anything other than tank in the past few weeks I've seen a rise in bad STR tanks that is making me facepalm.

I, for one, will not use STR accessories for better enmity, I've gotten used to the tank changes by now and know what to do to hold aggro. Will I meld STR into my right side? Probably. I'm definitely not gonna give up survivability for more dps though.

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Originally Posted by DGladius

So a full vit tank will die 3 auto attacks. Is that really any different? Would any pure healers players be able to heal that amount of damage at all? Lol

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Haha you nailed it. Seriously this shit is really funny, not gonna lie xD.