Stormblood stat weights?

is Determination good now? i noticed Spell speed also increases potency of hots and dots. did Crit get hit? anyone have any clue what to prioritize?

It's going to be a bit before those kind of posts start popping up. Although I did see one on tenacity and it seemed pretty garbage.

Healer stat weights are mostly opinion, since we don't need to rely too much on our secondary stats for healing. And the last set of stat weights we had assumed you did 100% damage and 0% healing, which isn't very accurate for a healing job. :P

In my opinion, you want to stack crit on SCH for adlo and Piety on WHM for Assize. Not sure what AST benefits the best from.

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Healer stat weights are mostly opinion, since we don't need to rely too much on our secondary stats for healing. And the last set of stat weights we had assumed you did 100% damage and 0% healing, which isn't very accurate for a healing job. :P

In my opinion, you want to stack crit on SCH for adlo and Piety on WHM for Assize. Not sure what AST benefits the best from.

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Well basically it will make the choice easier, since the sub stats are garbage for healing itself.
I can see crit now on WHM's cause of procs, but hell... im rearly healing with cure1/2 in lakshmi/susanoo ex

I am a bit confused, another healer told me, that if you put Direct Hit on your equip, it also influences your heals, not really sure about it, since the tooltip of Direct Hit, says only for magic and physical attacks

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Originally Posted by Alywen

I am a bit confused, another healer told me, that if you put Direct Hit on your equip, it also influences your heals, not really sure about it, since the tooltip of Direct Hit, says only for magic and physical attacks

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Could they mean critical hit? Last I checked/heard direct hit was only a dps stat, virtually useless on healers?

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Originally Posted by magnanimousCynic

Healer stat weights are mostly opinion, since we don't need to rely too much on our secondary stats for healing. And the last set of stat weights we had assumed you did 100% damage and 0% healing, which isn't very accurate for a healing job. :P

In my opinion, you want to stack crit on SCH for adlo and Piety on WHM for Assize. Not sure what AST benefits the best from.

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I would say WHM can meld everything but piety. Surely the more piety you have the more mana you get back with Assize, but WHM is literally swimming in mana even without going for piety. They dont really need more. I can see piety being a thing more for ASTs (Not sure about Scholar, havent looked at them that much so far).

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Originally Posted by Sanghelios

I would say WHM can meld everything but piety. Surely the more piety you have the more mana you get back with Assize, but WHM is literally swimming in mana even without going for piety. They dont really need more. I can see piety being a thing more for ASTs (Not sure about Scholar, havent looked at them that much so far).

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Ast used to have the best management now I'm actually having to give myself ewers lol. Sch has it really bad right now though. Their mp costs are way up making crit adlo pretty unbearable to fish for and they cut aetherflow in half if I'm not mistaken. My group planned for the off heals to go sch for that sweet sweet crit buff, but at it's current state I think sch will be pretty stressful to raid with. Eos isn't able to keep up anymore either. My heart goes out to sch mains lol

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Originally Posted by FkinFrenchToast

and they cut aetherflow in half if I'm not mistaken.

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They did, but they also have lucid dreaming now. SCH MP recovery now looks a lot like WHM: Lucid every 2 minutes, and a 10% recovery ability every minute with procs that can reduce the CD.

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Originally Posted by FkinFrenchToast

Eos isn't able to keep up anymore either.

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Eos can still solo heal dungeons if you get a geared enough tank. I know SCH was nerfed but what everyone seems to forget... SCH was best-in-class in a lot of areas too.

The main thing is AoE DPS, but... for healing SCH is still OK. Any of the healers will struggle with huge pull + low end gear.

As a WHM, I find myself needing Peity right now in EX content, since groups are still taking lots of unnecessary damage.

Crit is always nice. Det is likely fairly good for 4.0, but will fall off rapidly with content. Spell Speed is up in the air. I'm currently PIE / CRIT / DET, but will likely swap DET for SpS. I find 320 gear really slow.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

They did, but they also have lucid dreaming now. SCH MP recovery now looks a lot like WHM: Lucid every 2 minutes, and a 10% recovery ability every minute with procs that can reduce the CD.




Eos can still solo heal dungeons if you get a geared enough tank. I know SCH was nerfed but what everyone seems to forget... SCH was best-in-class in a lot of areas too.

The main thing is AoE DPS, but... for healing SCH is still OK. Any of the healers will struggle with huge pull + low end gear.

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I don't seehow anyone can play a class that gets one free ogcd to weave every 30 seconds. It is the clunkiest thing i have EVER seen. Healers lost their fluidity.

ABC.

How can you ABC if you have to stop your gcd to Lustrate? To Indom? To chain strategum? To rouse? To Excog? To sacred Soil? To Energy Drain? Bane? Deployment tactics? Emergency tactics? Fey union? Dissipation??? AND OH Shadowflare now too. You have to clip your GCD every time you want to use your tool kit.

Sure you can Ruin II + Energy Drain + ability to do it, but you need 0 spell speed in your build to do so... so uh once a minute if you spend an aetherflow on HEALING. Anything else you're better off broiling and just letting your GCD rot. Even blizzard II gave time to weave.

Speaking of SS. Anyone else realize that the buff they brought into HW with SS affecting DoTs is effectively moot? All the dots are gone. Thinking that it's going to sit behind det this time.

Playing RDM has that weaving SCH used to have and better. They have Addle. They have instaraise. They have erase to cleanse dots and ogcd heal more than embrace once in a while and they have a 700 potency heal (if they precast) to help save the day in soloheal strats. All on top of mana shift to share the MP wealth.

If you're disgusted with the new SCH direction play RDM. Might be your new main.

Yeah i think it's definitely crit /det this time for us.

I hit i314 tonight on WHM, and what you meld doesn't really matter. The difference between max crit and no crit is about 2k on individual crit heals, and about 3% on crit rate. I ended up with over 19k MP with no Piety melds, and ~20.5k with max melds.

I saw the most difference melding spell speed, but that's personal feel of the class. Without SpS melds, I had cast times over 2.4, which just kinda hurt. I'm down at 2.35(?) now with max SpS, and everything flows nicely. SSS Ex dummies clear with 22 seconds to spare. Sitting at ~1200 crit, ~1000 det, ~1400 SpS.

Edit: I think it will be Crit for WHM in the long run, for the cooldowns reductions on crit cures, but I'm not inclined to stack that until we can get over 20% crit rate.

Edit 2: You could get to 1984crit with food and favoring some i310 over i320 which is 18.3%, so whatever makes you happy.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

If you're disgusted with the new SCH direction play RDM. Might be your new main.

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QFT, started RDM yesterday, it is fun as eff! Have played SCH since the release of SCH and as people have said, i heal because i like SCH, i dont play SCH because i like healing.
So you just got yet another DPS main, thanks SE ;P

And for the OP, i think its crit all the way for SCH still.

Just tested some piety on my SCH, and it seems that every point of piety gives roughly 3.32 mp, with a grade 5's 11 piety giving 36 mp each. If you maximized piety, you'd only gain roughly 600-700 max mp, in lieu of other important secondary stats, as well as a paltry 60-70 mp gain per minute on aetherflow and 13 mp gain per tick on passive regen. I recorded the changes after every piece of materia affixed, and can confirm that the mp gain doesn't scale with your total mp, it's a flat 3.32 per point.


Edit: Silly me, forgot grade vi. I'd imagine the jump to +40 pie per mat would be significantly better, but I assume the flat rate would stay the same, giving you roughly +128 mp per mat.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

It's going to be a bit before those kind of posts start popping up. Although I did see one on tenacity and it seemed pretty garbage.

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Actually seen someone who was recording for world record purposes on parse actually using a tenacity set which wound up doing 100 more damage then the direct hit set. People are looking at tenacity as a damage reduction stat which it's garbage for but it actually decent for parse. It's been posted it'd take 1000 tenacity to actually boost your defense however. We still need to see the theorycrafts on this stuff but it seems more reliable for other reasons.

how much crit is too much? or is there such a thing!

im currently ilvl311 and just been putting crit/pie materia with some det if i cant do crit/pie
atm i have 1770 crit, 1067 det and 1515 pie

Direct Hit. Sub stats arent needed for healing.
You cant plan with crit healing.

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Originally Posted by Amaret

Direct Hit. Sub stats arent needed for healing.
You cant plan with crit healing.

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I'm most likely going this route once I see how things are in Savage, at the very least put in a crit 6 when I'm not near crit cap on a piece then Direct hit the rest.

Are there numbers out there yet for Direct hit rates for healers?

Direct Hit only applies to DPS, not healing. So you can use it for boosting your down time do I guess, but it feels inefficient compared to other stats that have 2 or 3 benefits.

Gathering data on Direct Hit is slow because it's not called out in the data stream, so they're having to do it by hand.

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Originally Posted by Kethic

Direct Hit only applies to DPS, not healing. So you can use it for boosting your down time do I guess, but it feels inefficient compared to other stats that have 2 or 3 benefits.

Gathering data on Direct Hit is slow because it's not called out in the data stream, so they're having to do it by hand.

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Looking at it from a sch perspective and it's always downtime just about for them so it should be a solid boost, direct hits not being called out on the data stream is a really weird oversight dang

As WHM chasing the progression race to some extent, I'll likely be maximising Piety first, then Crit. Efficiency and finesse aren't really on my agenda for the first few weeks of savage. I just need to be able to sustain as much potency output as I can for as long as possible ;)

Before SB came out, I decided to test the efficacy of my Benefic and Benefic II vs my WHM friend's Cure and Cure II. She had about 70 (rounded down) Mind more than I did, and I had about 400 (rounded up) Determination than she did. In the end, my Diurnal heals could hit a bit harder than hers, and this was even more pronounced when Nocturnal, obviously. On the other hand, she had significantly higher spell speed, so she put out heals faster. It also seemed like, for every bit of height my heals could reach, my heals could also reach a lower low point. Whether that is what happened, I don't know.

Now that determination is supposed to have been made more impactful as of this expansion, I should say, given the same scenario, even without sect boosts, I guess my healing would have more oomph, but I'd miss out on other benefits. I still grab determination though. If nothing else, I like the idea that my spells hit harder because I just really want them to.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As WHM chasing the progression race to some extent, I'll likely be maximising Piety first, then Crit. Efficiency and finesse aren't really on my agenda for the first few weeks of savage. I just need to be able to sustain as much potency output as I can for as long as possible ;)

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I'm SpS Crit Det right now on WHM, and I actually ran out of MP in Omega this week, so I think you may be right to buffer Piety a little bit. I'll be dropping SpS sadly, since Cure3 is so effective in Omega Normal, and switching back to Crit. WHM can reach 20% crit rate in full Omega / Lakshmi crit gear.

Im kindof curious as to whether theyre trying to make every healer want a different substat, SCH/Crit, WHM/SpS, AST/Det, feels that was at least. But time and testing will tell.

Yes, crit was nerfed in 4.X, its potency increase was brought down, so you have DH mini crits, regular crits being a little less, and direct crits being a little more than old crits, but healers dont get the low and high end of that equation.

And they fixed the SCH Fey Union Direct Hit bug, so that may have been where you heard about healers and direct hit as well.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

As WHM chasing the progression race to some extent, I'll likely be maximising Piety first, then Crit. Efficiency and finesse aren't really on my agenda for the first few weeks of savage. I just need to be able to sustain as much potency output as I can for as long as possible ;)

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For that cases you most likely want Vit :)

I still think crit is BiS for most healers, SCH gets crit shield. AST/WHM gets those useless passives at lvl 68 proc by crit.

My plan as a Noct AST is to go with crit, then either det or piety depending on how comfy I feel with my mana pool starting Omega Savage. EX Primals and regular Omega aren't taxing me at all resource-wise, but progression raiding is a whole other beast and I don't want to bottom out. I'm still leaning det for now though since speed on Noct AST seems fairly useless.

I burned more gil, and Crit is just better than SpS on WHM right now. It makes me sad. The 120 spare Det you can stuff in there didn't make much difference, so I went with Direct Hit. I was pleasantly surprised by the dps increase. Doesn't help my heals any, but 24k crits heals are sufficient, 10k direct crit stones are nice when they happen, and DoTs can Direct Hit too.

So, for now, I'm rolling max crit and about 200 direct hit, with good success.

This was posted on Reddit today regarding secondary stat weights. If you're going to delve into this further, I'd also recommend checking out Dervy's comment chain inside the comments as well for a bit more details and depth. Take into account Direct Hit is only usable for DPS abilities and we're healers so your valuation of Direct Hit will vary depending on your play style. Piety is also a consideration depending on how deep you want to get into progression raiding.

[edit] Given the power Direct Hit seems to give, I'd say go with Direct Hit for any casual content since MP and healing potency shouldn't be a concern for any non-serious content and you're looking to deal damage. Otherwise focus on Crit as their overall healing would outshine DET. Healers should start making shifts towards more PIE, VIT, and/or Crit as necessary depending on the Extreme / Savage content they want to participate in.

With those values as a SCH 100% direct seems good, some vit if progression requires it

Edit: Settled on critical > hit > everything for.sch

I'm not so sure about direct, I'd rather just take crit/ss since it effects both healing and dps. But I'm speaking as a WHM, I'm not as familiar with SCH.

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Originally Posted by Watchit

I'm not as familiar with SCH.

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Sch is always the support healer so outside of tank busters, big aoe dmg, or high split party damage they are typically in nonstop dps mode

I've continued to churn through materia, and the latest best set for me on WHM is Det/SpS, weirdly. I wasn't going to try it, but latest Reddit data implied it might work. Set a whole bunch of new records for myself today. We'll see if it holds. For SCH, I think Crit is still way powerful, and Direct is actually pretty damn useful.

Could you explain why Det/SpS is great for whm ?
I'm curious and I'd like to know.

I was about to go on full crit/det.

Crit heals are pointless because you don't know if your heal is going to crit until it crits. So if your tank is reduced to 60% and Tetra/Asylum are down, you're still going to cast that Cure II. If it crits, you don't get any benefit because its overheal anyway. Basically most cure crits end up being overheals. SS means your cures come out faster and come off CD from GCD faster which means more cures in any finite amount of time.

So hypothetically which is better:
10 cures in 10 seconds for 1000 HP each for a total of 10,000?
OR
11 cures in 10 seconds for 950 HP each for a total of 10,450?

So you'll get more cures off in the same amount of time compared to having stronger heals. Also the same applies here for DPS spells. 11 Stone IVs with SS vs 10 Stone IVs with DET. The extra damage granted from the DET build isn't going to add up to enough damage to equal an extra cast of a Stone IV unless we're talking dozens of casts, but in that time, the extra SS could have resulted in 2 or maybe 3 extra Stone IV casts in that same amount of time it takes to cast 10 Stone IVs with DET.

I took Crit > SpS on my SCH (1600 crit 1200 SPS) - you could probably go well with full DH melds on SCH though.
I took SpS > Crit on my AST, but also wore ilvl up gear so I had more det/mind since the crit double dip for AST is nothing compared to SCH (1200 SpS 1400 Crit)

I only have +40 melds in my susano wep and in 2 pieces of omega gear though.

You can't indeed rely on Crit to heal properly. But this stat is always a overall gain for both healing and dps.
+ the lvl 68 trait give a chance to reduce Assize cooldown. So, yes, I'm absolutely not relying on this either BUT, this is always a small gain when it procs so.

If my regens have crit ticks, that means it might give me some uptime to put my dots.

So for me, definitly crit + det or sps since dots and hots are increased with it.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Could you explain why Det/SpS is great for whm ?
I'm curious and I'd like to know.

I was about to go on full crit/det.

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DET is the important part. It scales much better than Crit or SpS right now. This tends to be the case early in an expansion, but the Det buff makes it more pronounced right now. You can fill the non-det slots with either, since they track each other pretty well when combined with high Det.

I expect scaling will change once we have higher weapon damage values, but for now Det seems to have a small advantage over Crit as a primary focus. You may get lucky with Crit chains, but on average Det will win by a few percent, and give you more consistent heals and damage.

Nothing worth fretting over. Definitely meld to your playstyle.

edit: I was on mobile, so couldn't edit.

I melded out a few times, and roughly verified the relative values of the spreadsheet I'm using. The spreadsheet is based on 3.57 theoryjerks document. adjusted for 4.0 values, but not including DH or the changes to AP. That said, the values should be internally comparable.

Crit / Det / SpS / DH
1633 / 1142 / 724 / 484

ended up being my second to worst setup, although on occasion it would crit out some great numbers. I found myself hesitating to see if I would need a second heal, or if I could go back to dps.

1154 / 1462 / 1004 / 364
1434 / 1462 / 724 / 364

these performed basically the same, although both were consistent 3-4 percent better than my original Crit focus melds. I also noticed less stress since the heals were slightly more consistent. this did mean I had to followup heal more often, but i knew it was coming, so I could plan my actions appropriately. in both cases I overheal horrendously, but that's a personal problem. <.<

My spreadsheet doesn't model SpS gains to DoTs well, yet it says the latter two builds are roughly equal. That made me inclined to favor SpS, since it's likely a fraction of a percent better.

That said... we're talking about <=5% difference at current gear levels, and I cleared every Ex available right now in all specs. Play what feels right.

edit: I did try a full SpS/Crit build, but it underperformed even the original Crit-centric build, so I didn't list it here.