Please buff WHM

I like the change just not strong enough. Give me more CDR and stronger heals.

The expansion just came out and everyone has entry-level ilvls. As gear level increases your heals will get stronger, so this issue will literally correct itself in time. Potency-wise they actually received quite a few increases already.

Could probably stand to revisit the cooldown reduction amounts, though.

A buff wouldn't fix anything. Ignoring the Lilies, WHM's base kit is already fine. The issue with the Lilies is that RNG CDR is a terrible mechanic in general, and is particularly cancerous on healers. With the lily mechanic as it is now, there is likely no set of numbers they could slap onto it that would find a middle ground between "useless" and "completely broken". It's a fundamentally flawed mechanic.

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Originally Posted by shawnaus17

I like the change just not strong enough. Give me more CDR and stronger heals.

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Congratulations on encountering content that you and your party don't overgear by 60+ ilvls?


The general reduction in healer power across the board has me thinking the Devs are trying to nudge healers back in the direction of being actual healers instead of what they ended up as in HW - DPS that occasionally threw a Cure out.
Had many near wipes on trash leveling my Samurai because the healers went full blown DPS mode and thought that Eos or a Regen was enough to keep the tank alive ...

Yeah, it's a gameplay issue with WHM, not a numbers issue.

I'm hitting 4.0 with an ilvl 268 WHM, albeit with a Piety/Acc relic - and my basic read is that the WHM should always be casting something (be it healing or DPS) because we're strong enough with our spells to do just that. Due to the issues with leveling, I've only recently gotten to the Ruby Sea, so I've only played through seen the first new instance and done the older content - but the changes are enough to make a noticeably better experience.

Granted, the entire lilies mechanic is unreliable at best - but almost everything else kinda makes this feel like a slight buff.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

The expansion just came out and everyone has entry-level ilvls. As gear level increases your heals will get stronger

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Doesn't really matter because AST heals will still be even stronger than that.

Its not just Lillies though. Once you get to lv. 70 Confession stacks get added and I would argue they are WORSE than the Lily system. A completely unnecessary and clunky mechanic.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

The expansion just came out and everyone has entry-level ilvls. As gear level increases your heals will get stronger, so this issue will literally correct itself in time. Potency-wise they actually received quite a few increases already.

Could probably stand to revisit the cooldown reduction amounts, though.

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The WHM problems have NOTHING to do with potency.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

The WHM problems have NOTHING to do with potency.

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The only healer with an arguably legitimate potency complaint is SCH, who got hit with an Embrace potency nerf on top of the faerie's already poor scaling, benefits from neither flat potency increases nor passive boosts, and as insult upon further injury, spends silly amounts of MP for what used to be its signature mechanic.

I think SE has some idea by now that some of the WHM changes and additions need tweaking, but SCH looks to be the true red-headed stepchild of this patch. I'm officially lobbying for SCH since the feedback on WHM appears at least to have been received.

WHM had two issues going into 4.0: MP and utility. They fixed the first without question, but the utility is still missing. Even more so now without Stoneskin. I like that the lily mechanic doesn't negatively impact my gameplay (though it can if you let it). What I don't like about it is I see a great amount of potential the devs can do with it, however it is almost best that you completely ignore it. I believe adjustments will be made to it, and also believe the devs are being careful with it. They could easily make WHM OP if given too much power.

I kinda feel like WHM is knocking on that door. Their basekit is actually pretty freakin awesome; give them that utility and look out.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

SCH.

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It's really disheartening that SE unapologetically (and seemingly) favoured one healer over the others. They claim that it's all balanced around Level 70... okay, but looking at what we have:



SCH is near useless in dungeons and with the massive MP management disparity I doubt it will see much play in Raids, over even WHM.

WHM has it's own issues but it's mostly around clunky and unintuitive mechanics. Also a lack of utility. I may complain about some of the WHM changes but I do think SCH is basically screwed.

Why did they give AST so much and basically ignore balance between the three classes? Even if you think they balanced the classes individually, just around their own kit, that's complete bs because of the above reasons. AST is a supped up WHM and a SCH on steroids COMBINED.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Doesn't really matter because AST heals will still be even stronger than that.

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Not sure this is correct. The numbers from my equally geared sat/whm do not reflect this. The Ast is close but not stronger. Granted I'm only lvl 60 with those two but the ratio should stay the same. On a heal for heal basis.

Had no issues with a whm healing me

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Not sure this is correct. The numbers from my equally geared sat/whm do not reflect this. The Ast is close but not stronger. Granted I'm only lvl 60 with those two but the ratio should stay the same. On a heal for heal basis.

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Did you have a sect active when you were testing that? Part of the issue is the passive healing bonus from the sects.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

The only healer with an arguably legitimate potency complaint is SCH, who got hit with an Embrace potency nerf on top of the faerie's already poor scaling, benefits from neither flat potency increases nor passive boosts, and as insult upon further injury, spends silly amounts of MP for what used to be its signature mechanic.

I think SE has some idea by now that some of the WHM changes and additions need tweaking, but SCH looks to be the true red-headed stepchild of this patch. I'm officially lobbying for SCH since the feedback on WHM appears at least to have been received.

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This actually has me wondering why there isn't a SCH feedback thread like there is for WHM. It'd probably be better at getting attention

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Not sure this is correct. The numbers from my equally geared sat/whm do not reflect this. The Ast is close but not stronger. Granted I'm only lvl 60 with those two but the ratio should stay the same. On a heal for heal basis.

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You have to take stance bonuses into account. Diurnal grants a 10% bonus to AST heals. Nocturnal, 15%.

Are you remembering to activate your stances before you compare them? Diurnal is basically half-Largesse with 100% uptime and Noct is even stronger than that.

I think if they were to give WHM the same treatment as AST (usable new abilities, a mechanic that worked for healers) as it stands now WHM would be the only choice for healers. I've only done the first new dungeon (I'm progressing with someone and he's had a ton of work lately) but I've also done a bunch of older content which I also did as HW WHM and the potency increases are real. Even without the 10% CS buff I pulled off of tanks while DPSing fairly regularly and the heal potency let me do more damage because my heals per GCD were bringing him back up that much more.

I pretty much ignored lillies but that was okay. I'm all for redoing lily and confession systems but then I think WHM will need a potency nerf or it will just be too OP.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

The WHM problems have NOTHING to do with potency.

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I know, but I was responding specifically to the original poster.

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Originally Posted by Aniond

Had no issues with a whm healing me

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WHM is viable.

At the same time, it's a horrible and unimpressive healer compared to the others, especially AST.

We shouldn't be aiming for viability, we should be aiming for balance.

i doubt WHM is less impressive than a SCh. i ran trials and dungeons at 70 on the SCH and FEY union is so unintuitive. it's basically a weaker CURE 1 on a 10 yard range with a 3 second cast time. 3 second cast time because of the wind up animation before your target gets it's first tick of heal. just amazing.

i doubt WHM is less impressive than a SCh. i ran trials and dungeons at 70 on the SCH and FEY union is so unintuitive. it's basically a weaker CURE 1 on a 10 yard range with a 3 second cast time. 3 second cast time because of the wind up animation before your target gets it's first tick of heal. when your fey union target runs out of range the fairy just STANDS there

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Originally Posted by shawnaus17

I like the change just not strong enough. Give me more CDR and stronger heals.

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Is this a joke thread? If so why don't you put an image or emoji down so it is easily discernible? What is wrong with posted a Jebaited image after a joke thread OP?

https://static-cdn.jtvnw.net/emoticons/v1/114836/3.0

Just typed a huge thing and it's gone. Thanks character limit.

Essentially for mechanic:
Remove confessions. Use lilies instead. Have it scale potency and cd on lilly for pi.
Remove cd trait of assize/asylum for critting. Bake into original skill.
Obtaining lilies should have a 20% chance to reset cd on pi and db.


Utility.
Aoe thin Air. Black mages make your utility.
Asylum negates the effect of weakness while under it.

Then fix scholar.

I'm only a 62 whm but so far I don't like the Lilly system. Everything about is just boring and doesn't work well with whm in general. The fact that you don't gain lillies from HoT or aoe heals makes it really annoying. I often have a medica 2 and regen on the tank so I can dps in some way. I don't want to wait for them to take damage so I can heal it just to get a Lilly for just a 20% reduced cd on asylum or assize. If I got that 20% reduction as a bonus for just healing that would be better but right now I either ignore lillies and help dps or I switch targets very often between the tank and a monster to dps and focus heal with cure 2 which is super annoying and will absolutely mess me up to almost get someone killed.

Being 62 I don't have divine benison yet but reading how that works sounds dumb too. So you can use it with 1 Lilly but you can also use it at 3 lillies for no extra benefit other then you lose all your lillies when you could have just lost 1? Seriously is that how it works? And I don't even want to deal with confessions.. there's just so many rules to that and for some reason the buff or whatever it is is on my party members not me so I gotta look around for where that is if I want to use it? why is it so complicated? The whole lillies and confessions system is really annoying to me and rather then being interesting and making me want to keep playing, it makes me want to ignore it, which makes me want to play something else that did actually get fun new changes.

WHM: my new toys aren't very good, except for Thin Air.
SCH: our AOE capabilities were cut 50+%, our Aetherflow MP recovery was cut in half, our faerie heals were decreased 16% (on top of the 33% nerf we got in Heavensward), AND our new toys aren't that great.

I'm kinda sick of hearing white mages complain. The grass there looks pretty green from where I'm standing.

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Originally Posted by giantslayer

WHM: my new toys aren't very good, except for Thin Air.
SCH: our AOE capabilities were cut 50+%, our Aetherflow MP recovery was cut in half, our faerie heals were decreased 16% (on top of the 33% nerf we got in Heavensward), AND our new toys aren't that great.

I'm kinda sick of hearing white mages complain. The grass there looks pretty green from where I'm standing.

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Right? Whm is like 3 minor tweaks away from being golden. Sch needs major changes.

Scholar was utterly overpowered for four years. They didn't need to get nerfed as much as they did, but they did need nerfing.

Half of WHM's problems right now are the fact that AST exists

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

AoE Thin Air

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wot

This is a joke right? That's not utility. That's OP.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Congratulations on encountering content that you and your party don't overgear by 60+ ilvls?


The general reduction in healer power across the board has me thinking the Devs are trying to nudge healers back in the direction of being actual healers instead of what they ended up as in HW - DPS that occasionally threw a Cure out.
Had many near wipes on trash leveling my Samurai because the healers went full blown DPS mode and thought that Eos or a Regen was enough to keep the tank alive ...

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THIS on so many levels even Yoshi.P had stated a while back he didnt design WHM's as dps, even in HW raid content the amount of WHM and scholars I carried because they wanted to dps was shockingly stupid. Note to all newbs and scrubs if you want to dps on a healer class roll a caster dps!

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Originally Posted by Shizzle

THIS on so many levels even Yoshi.P had stated a while back he didnt design WHM's as dps, even in HW raid content the amount of WHM and scholars I carried because they wanted to dps was shockingly stupid. Note to all newbs and scrubs if you want to dps on a healer class roll a caster dps!

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If you are "carrying" your coheal because you saw them in Cleric Stance, You were probably overhealing. If my coheal didn't dps, then by the gods you better be able to solo heal. Not even solo healing if you count regen/embrace/ogcds so don't feel that accomplished. Push and pull. If you can't show your coheal you are going to dps then why should they heal?

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

If you are "carrying" your coheal because you saw them in Cleric Stance, You were probably overhealing. If my coheal didn't dps, then by the gods you better be able to solo heal. Not even solo healing if you count regen/embrace/ogcds so don't feel that accomplished. Push and pull. If you can't show your coheal you are going to dps then why should they heal?

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Pretty much this. This game isn't built to be difficult enough for a healer to be healing 100% of the time. Even when not overgeared dungeons and trials don't pump out nearly enough consistent damage for a healer to never DPS.

Really I just dislike the Lily System. I don't enjoy having to hold 3 Lilies just so I can use Divine Benision, I also hate how Asylum and Assize consume the Lilies as well. I understand I need to adapt but there have been multiple times where I use Assize for the AoE heal or for DPS and I immediately regret doing this because now I don't have a Lily for Benision for an incoming Tank Buster.

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Originally Posted by Fufupel

Really I just dislike the Lily System. I don't enjoy having to hold 3 Lilies just so I can use Divine Benision, I also hate how Asylum and Assize consume the Lilies as well. I understand I need to adapt but there have been multiple times where I use Assize for the AoE heal or for DPS and I immediately regret doing this because now I don't have a Lily for Benision for an incoming Tank Buster.

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You really don't, actually. FFXI has 2 other healers (I hear scholars are unhappy too though) and a 14 other jobs, you can change to a different one for a while while SE scratches their heads and wonders why no one wants to play WHM anymore. Maybe that'll get the message across. I've been leveling RDM and it's amazing playing a job that just feels good, has rewards for following the gauge mechanics, etc. Hell, I even get a cure and a rez. It's a lot of fun. The mechanic for whm is simply not fun. It's unrewarding and none of the spells 63+ are really worth anything.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Pretty much this. This game isn't built to be difficult enough for a healer to be healing 100% of the time. Even when not overgeared dungeons and trials don't pump out nearly enough consistent damage for a healer to never DPS.

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Whoa! That's not true at all. The gear of a tank greatly determines how much they will need heals. You get an undergeared tank, or one at the minimum requirement and you can expect to heal them the entire time, especially if they pull more than they can chew.

I found it pretty common actually in PUGs that the more a tank pulls, the less equipped they are to handle it. They don't use CDs and expect the healer to simply keep them alive, and sacrifice all of their potential DPS as a result. Granted, there are always windows that pop up for a healer to DPS, even more so now that stat swapping is gone, but do not rule out the existence of squishy tanks. They are everywhere.

The proc rate on our level 70 ability, being 20%, is too rare that I hardly ever see it, making the ability an RNG only ability. This needs to be buffed to 40% or allow medica and medica2 to also proc it.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Whoa! That's not true at all. The gear of a tank greatly determines how much they will need heals. You get an undergeared tank, or one at the minimum requirement and you can expect to heal them the entire time, especially if they pull more than they can chew.

I found it pretty common actually in PUGs that the more a tank pulls, the less equipped they are to handle it. They don't use CDs and expect the healer to simply keep them alive, and sacrifice all of their potential DPS as a result. Granted, there are always windows that pop up for a healer to DPS, even more so now that stat swapping is gone, but do not rule out the existence of squishy tanks. They are everywhere.

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Really? Especially on WHM you should have ZERO reason not to. You are GUARANTEED 7 seconds of dps uptime EVERY pull. Holy. Aoe stun. Best mitigation in the game. 0 damage taken for 4 seconds. How do I know you have time to dps? Because my husband leveled up whm for this expac. Even with back to back pulls in leveling content, where gear is HQ whites, between holy, tetra, cd reduced benediction, cure II cuz delete cure at this point, DB and allot of swearing he NEVER let a tank die.

People need to step it up or pull the Yoshi-P healer DPS card.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Really? Especially on WHM you should have ZERO reason not to. You are GUARANTEED 7 seconds of dps uptime EVERY pull. Holy. Aoe stun. Best mitigation in the game. 0 damage taken for 4 seconds. How do I know you have time to dps? Because my husband leveled up whm for this expac. Even with back to back pulls in leveling content, where gear is HQ whites, between holy, tetra, cd reduced benediction, cure II cuz delete cure at this point, DB and allot of swearing he NEVER let a tank die.

People need to step it up or pull the Yoshi-P healer DPS card.

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Yes, really. SC+Holy and assize are great tools to have in this situation, but they are not always available. If the tank is taking high and/or unpredictable damage, I will not feel safe dpsing. And that is all the reason I need.

As someone who has a lvl 70 WHM let me give my thoughts quick. I have not had any problems healing, some new dungeons can seem more heal intensive but that was mainly because of either my tank or my own gear was not the best it could be for that dungeon. Some people focus too much on the new mechanics based around cure and cure 2. I think of them as extra, don"t hold back on using certain skills because your waiting for them to have a lower cooldown. The time you wait to use that skill is usually greater than the extra time it would have taken to come off of cooldown. Remember to keep your HoTs up 100% of the time, cast your shield ASAP, and remember to use your healing buffs such as largesse.