Onslaught charge and needing rage

With infuriate not working outside of combat, it would be nice if our new charge ability didn't cost rage so it can be useful for initiating/pulling.

What do you all think?

Onslaught and Inner release should both cost no Beast gauge

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Originally Posted by Baci

Onslaught and Inner release should both cost no Beast gauge

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These 2 changes alone would make WAR gameplay very dynamic and have a huge battlefield control. Hope they listen to you haha.

IR having a beast gauge cost makes senses, as it is the Deliverance equivalent of Unchained (which has the same gauge cost). Onslaught should either have a potency increase or remove the gauge cost, though.

Onslaught has a beast gauge cost intentionally because they do not want you using it to pull.

It is intended for interception and reengaging.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Onslaught has a beast gauge cost intentionally because they do not want you using it to pull.

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Well i always tought that is one of the main uses for skills like charge, like throwing a tomahawk and instanty charge after that to gain burst aggro and resources. Plunge works like this so i dont really understand why they made onslaught diffirent.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Well i always tought that is one of the main uses for skills like charge, like throwing a tomahawk and instanty charge after that to gain burst aggro and resources. Plunge works like this so i dont really understand why they made onslaught diffirent.

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Well one thing is that if you use gap closer at pull your melees would need longer time to get into melee range of the boss, and sometimes using their gap closer at pull is a dps loss. Like drg using spineshatter dive at pull loses quite a bit of potency (heavy thrust, disembowel, botd, bfb, litany, pot) on that skill.

I still think they need to increase the potency of onslaught to make it worth the gauge cost, or remove the gauge cost (though I still think it's not a good skill to use at pull).

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

I still think it's not a good skill to use at pull.

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But it feels good and looks badass! ;__;

Pulling with dragonfire dive also looks badass. ;_;

It's just nice to be able to charge when you want to.

Would be nice if it was like the warriors charge in Wow and give a bit of rage really.

But I'd settle for a 20-25 second cooldown and no rage cost. Just seems like it'd be more useful that way.

It's just nice to be able to charge when you want to.

Would be nice if it was like the warriors charge in Wow and give a bit of rage really.

But I'd settle for a 20-25 second cooldown and no rage cost. Just seems like it'd be more useful that way.

This is from the famitsu interview which is currently the most recent build of 4.0 and looks like nothing really changed. Onslaught is still on a 15 sec cd. It's a great mobility tool in battle but it looks like tomahawk is still the go to for pulls. If someone can translate the tool tip because I'm really curious if anything really changed. It seems like Storm's Path no longer heals hp which sucks. I also want to see what benefits Upheaval has and how it compares to Fell Cleave

Source: https://www.famitsu.com/news/201705/...34.html?page=3

This is from the recent NA embargo release on 4.0.

Source: NA media tour Embargo

In current form I can't see much use for Onslaught, it should generate Beast Gauge given it has CD attached to it.
Hope they listen to this feedback

100% agree, Onslaught has little use atm, as even Upheaval, at a much more efficient 20 gauge for 300 potency is a DPS loss if used more than once outside of each Berserk. Atm Onslaught + Upheaval is 450 potency for 40 Gauge, which is a little more efficient than a 500 potency Fell Cleave for 50 gauge, but more investigation will need to be done, especially involving Berserk.

It's possible that raids will heavily feature mobility, and thus losing a Berserk FC might not be as big of a deal, but who knows?

makes no sense to give you that skill if you cant use it on pull, why even give us something like that?, i imagine if boss moves far really fast you can use to to catch up right away but still it should no cost us any rage,if anything it should give us points an not take from us maybe increase the CD an give us rage? or any of the suggestion above.. anything else seems better.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

With infuriate not working outside of combat, it would be nice if our new charge ability didn't cost rage so it can be useful for initiating/pulling.

What do you all think?

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im prob gona take it off my hotbar takes to much gauge that can be used on fell cleaves

[QUOTE=Marxam;4174020]This is from the famitsu interview which is currently the most recent build of 4.0 and looks like nothing really changed. Onslaught is still on a 15 sec cd. It\\'s a great mobility tool in battle but it looks like tomahawk is still the go to for pulls. If someone can translate the tool tip because I\\'m really curious if anything really changed. It seems like Storm\\'s Path no longer heals hp which sucks. I also want to see what benefits Upheaval has and how

Storms path no longer heals?! I watched a video and it showed storms path healing for 44 hp... figured they were adjusting the numbers... would really such if it no long heals...

[QUOTE=P4X0R10N;4174197][QUOTE=Marxam;4174020]This is from the famitsu interview which is currently the most recent build of 4.0 and looks like nothing
thats cause the dummy was like level one haha it still heals i know u mean mr happys vid haha he used a low level training dummy i thoght that to msqtech has the best info out in my opinion id look at hers if u get a chance

[QUOTE=P4X0R10N;4174197]

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Originally Posted by Marxam

This is from the famitsu interview which is currently the most recent build of 4.0 and looks like nothing really changed. Onslaught is still on a 15 sec cd. It\\'s a great mobility tool in battle but it looks like tomahawk is still the go to for pulls. If someone can translate

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9WAnW00CUI opps i did that wrong haha

@P4X0R10N thats for u haha id check out all her vids on any job ur intrested in

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Storms path no longer heals?! I watched a video and it showed storms path healing for 44 hp... figured they were adjusting the numbers... would really such if it no long heals...

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Well if someone could translate it that would help but judging by the tool tip there is no mention of percentage heals. I think most of the videos in youtube were based on the NA media tour and the famitsu interview was one week after. Normally you would see a number to indicate how much of the damage will be converted to hp but atm I see no such number in the Storm's Path JP tool tip probably suggesting its a portion and not giving out a percentage yet like how we currently have. Remember everything is subject to change and nothing is finalized yet. I do hope that Storm's Path still heals though.

Plunge's only use isn't just for pulling... Plunge is a great tool to increase mobility during fights, regardless of if you pull with it or not. Onslaught will have the same use, with the addition that it generates enmity and has a considerably longer range. It will be good for increasing uptime when picking up ads from a distance or get back to the boss's butt after a mechanic. I don't know why you guys don't see the use in that. Running 20y towards a boss can easily cost you 1.5-2 GCDs or more.

Apart from increasing your own mobility and preventing the boss from moving around too much when tanking and dealing with knockback mechanics, it can also have nifty situational uses, like how DRK could cheese the third Scrapline in A9S by Plunging into Faust or how BLMs could cheese most forced movements by using Aetherial Manipulation to avoid falling off a platform. Sure, it's situational, but the super short CD will let you use it quite a lot. I'm sure the extra mobility and stability in raid positioning is worth the gauge sacrifice!

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Plunge's only use isn't just for pulling... Plunge is a great tool to increase mobility during fights, regardless of if you pull with it or not. Onslaught will have the same use

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Onslaught costs a resource, Plunge doesn't. You have to consider what you could've used instead of Onslaught and then weigh Onslaught's value vs the value of what you're losing. The biggest problem with Onslaught is you need a mob to spawn within Onslaught range but outside of the range where you can just GCD -> move -> GCD (which I don't think Onslaught's range is even capable of now that we can Sprint in combat). It's simply not worth using for what it does at it's current potency and current gauge cost, either could be adjusted and it would be more worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Well one thing is that if you use gap closer at pull your melees would need longer time to get into melee range of the boss, and sometimes using their gap closer at pull is a dps loss. Like drg using spineshatter dive at pull loses quite a bit of potency (heavy thrust, disembowel, botd, bfb, litany, pot) on that skill.

I still think they need to increase the potency of onslaught to make it worth the gauge cost, or remove the gauge cost (though I still think it's not a good skill to use at pull).

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It takes roughly the same amount of time as just running up to it while it already aggroed you for taking another step closer. (I also doubt you would engage the boss where ever it stops, rather than facing away from the group in a predetermined spot.)

When I tanked in dungeons as WAR I tried to engage the next group of mobs before my wrath wore off, AND tried to do it before my Maim wore off as well, to increase my overpower dmg. (Id even refuse to tomahawk, just so the GCD wasnt going to slow my overpower before maim wore off)
Chances are, if your maim/wrath wore off before the next pull, so did your other DPSs buffs wear off, and they are secretly hating you, and now trying to pull extra mobs for you.
But if your maim/wrath didnt fall off, then chances are your healer DOES hate your quick pull, as they are still trying to decide which glamour they want to try out next between pulls.

imo, you'd have the 20 you need as long as its not 8+man content, where you have to wait awhile to engage.

I was mostly talking about raids, where using gap closer at pull would inconvenience the melees. If you're in dungeons this doesn't apply since your encounter has already started before you jump into the boss, and having a gap closer makes the dungeon run faster, (which is why drk is better than war for fast dungeon runs, since they can sprint and plunge). For dungeons I think it'll be well worth the gauge cost as long as it speeds up the run.

Could be used to supplement aggro while Tanking out of Defiance, like Shield Swipe? is the cost less than Stance Swapping? ..That's all I can think of really think of.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

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Onslaught is 100 potency on a 15 second recast. Plunge is 200 potency on a 30 second recast. If there was no gauge cost associated with Onslaught, it would be vastly better than Plunge. You're twice as mobile for the same potency. This is on top of the fact that Release has a built in Tempered Will effect. Between these two abilities, you'll have unrivalled uptime. I don't think you could increase the potency or decrease the cost in all fairness without significantly extending its recast.

While you could use Sprint to return to a mob more quickly, you can also use it to stay on a mob longer before you sprint out of an AoE. You can then gapclose back.

Not everything needs to be a flat potency advantage to be valuable. That being said, if there is ever a skillspeed breakpoint that allows for yet another additional GCD under your megazerk, I think it may end up being a potency advantage for Onslaught x2 to replace the final FC, as its relative efficiency to FC increases under both Berserk and Release. But even without this being the case, Onslaught is a very useful ability, even as pure quality of life.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't think you could increase the potency or decrease the cost in all fairness without significantly extending its recast.

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This would be fine.

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While you could use Sprint to return to a mob more quickly, you can also use it to stay on a mob longer before you sprint out of an AoE. You can then gapclose back.

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Unless mechanics dictate that the mob needs to be far away from the boss like in T13, you can just sprint to the mob and slowly pull it back to the boss. And this assume the add spawns miles away or that you even need Sprint in the first place to get to it. If it's not completely useless it's extremely situational and a far cry from "very useful".

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Originally Posted by Lyth

Onslaught is 100 potency on a 15 second recast. Plunge is 200 potency on a 30 second recast. If there was no gauge cost associated with Onslaught, it would be vastly better than Plunge. You're twice as mobile for the same potency. This is on top of the fact that Release has a built in Tempered Will effect. Between these two abilities, you'll have unrivalled uptime. I don't think you could increase the potency or decrease the cost in all fairness without significantly extending its recast.

While you could use Sprint to return to a mob more quickly, you can also use it to stay on a mob longer before you sprint out of an AoE. You can then gapclose back.

Not everything needs to be a flat potency advantage to be valuable. That being said, if there is ever a skillspeed breakpoint that allows for yet another additional GCD under your megazerk, I think it may end up being a potency advantage for Onslaught x2 to replace the final FC, as its relative efficiency to FC increases under both Berserk and Release. But even without this being the case, Onslaught is a very useful ability, even as pure quality of life.

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I would really like Onslaught to have no Potency at all. Just a movement skill nothing else. Also, the Tempered Will on IR is kinda pointless cause no one will use IR for that purpose.
Atm there are 3 things that really sting me as a WAR. Onslaughts Beast Cost. IR Beast Cost and IR sharing Cooldown with Unchained. Basically we´ll lose Unchained for most of 4.0

Sprint functions as both a gap closer and a gap extender. The two tools are not mutually exclusive, you use both in tandem to increase your mobility. It's a bit like asking why SAM needs both Yaten and Gyoten, both of which have Keniki costs associated with them and give you less potency than other oGCDs for the cost. You might not use them on a target dummy, but together, they give you freedom of movement that you can translate into a net dps gain through increased uptime, depending on fight mechanics.

Tempered Will on IR is not pointless. Your uptime during megazerk is more valuable than any other part of your rotation, so it's intrinsically protected. Also if there's a part of a fight which is knockback heavy, you may be able to adjust your windows to increase your overall uptime and improve dps.

Overall, I see a lot of things here that creative players will take advantage of to increase their dps in any fight that's more complex than a target dummy. They're not free, but having to balance the trade-offs in a job helps add to its complexity, and for some people, fun.

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Originally Posted by Baci

I would really like Onslaught to have no Potency at all. Just a movement skill nothing else. Also, the Tempered Will on IR is kinda pointless cause no one will use IR for that purpose.
Atm there are 3 things that really sting me as a WAR. Onslaughts Beast Cost. IR Beast Cost and IR sharing Cooldown with Unchained. Basically we´ll lose Unchained for most of 4.0

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No it needs to have potency especially since it costs gauge. Now if the potency was at 150 then it might be more competitive especially since it is now stronger than Tomahawk. With regards to sprint and how server ticks work, using onslaught might be a better option than just sprinting to an enemy. Tempered will is incredibly useful. Using IR basically guarantees you un-interrupted burst dmg.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

No it needs to have potency especially since it costs gauge. Now if the potency was at 150 then it might be more competitive especially since it is now stronger than Tomahawk. With regards to sprint and how server ticks work, using onslaught might be a better option than just sprinting to an enemy. Tempered will is incredibly useful. Using IR basically guarantees you un-interrupted burst dmg.

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Badly worded from me. Ofcourse I meant Onslaught having no Potency and no Beast Gauge cost. But I still think the Tempered Will effect on IR will be too rarely being usefull, but who knows maybe SE´s surprises us with a shitton of CC in 4.0

Bring Onslaught to 30s CD, and cost no Beast Gauge. It's likely never going to be used cause as it is now, it's a DPS loss to use it, especially since Sprint costs no TP.

It seems like most of us feel the same way about this move. The new content we will do will have an impact on the success of onslaught and other moves. Maybe raids will make the 15 second gap closer so helpful that its worth a fell cleave but looking at this move on paper, I would rather have brutal swing over it. Hopefully it becomes relevant or they fix the rage requirements to it.

I think there will be moments where Onslaught is optimal, but I don't think a skill like this needs such a high opportunity cost, honestly. It's not so powerful as to require such, and, more importantly, it doesn't feel good; a skill like this should not call for so much consideration.

The only thing that may change my mind towards Onslaught is if it ends up having a very high enmity modifier (I'm guessing it's 3x, but if it's 5x or more, then it might be time to start reconsidering its application).

I would MUCH prefer Onslaught to deal no damage, but consume no Beast gauge, if I had the option.

30s CD, but can be "rushed" after 15s' cooling at a cost of 1 rage per second rushed. Damage is reduced proportionately (50% at 15s) regardless.

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Actually I'd really love that were possible.

Or they could make it 30 secs, 50 potency and add a trait that causes fell cleave or in to reduce onslaughts cooldown by X secs. Maybe like 1 or 1.5 sec cooldown decrease per fell cleave or inner beast would be nice.

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My only concern with that is that gap-closers tend to be most useful after periods of downtime or when other spenders need to be saved anyways. As such, it would benefit when a "bonus" but rarely when necessary. At 15 Rage, this would just barely be worth the amount of distance it closes, if you wouldn't otherwise waste a combo by using Tomahawk in the interim, if you really needed to burst something afterwards. This puts it at a point of balance. Less than max distance? Save the rage so you need one generator less. If just 10 rage lost wouldn't delay you, hit the first mob twice more, then swap at the tail of the GCD gap.

Ditto. Although it would be weird for a charge to do no damage, I'd prefer it not cost rage. Maybe lower the potency to 50 or something and increase cooldown to 20 secs.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

30s CD, but can be "rushed" after 15s' cooling at a cost of 1 rage per second rushed. Damage is reduced proportionately (50% at 15s) regardless.

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Actually I'd really love that were possible.

Or they could make it 30 secs, 50 potency and add a trait that causes fell cleave or in to reduce onslaughts cooldown by X secs. Maybe like 1 or 1.5 sec cooldown decrease per fell cleave or inner beast would be nice.

Ditto. Although it would be weird for a charge to do no damage, I'd prefer it not cost rage. Maybe lower the potency to 50 or something and increase cooldown to 20 secs.