Why do you torture us with superfluous restrictions?

Learned today that I cannot queue for both Raid Finder and Duty Finder, but if you abandon Raid Finder because you're wasting your time, you WILL get a penalty for both Raid and Duty Finder.

Who thinks of this stuff?

It's almost like you get penalized for wasting everyone else's time. By leaving, you were the one in the wrong here, like it or not.

Well, maybe not wrong. But you got the queue penalty you deserved.

Abandoned you the queue or the already finished party?

The leaver penalty is a punishment for conduct unfair to your fellow players. To simply allow you to bounce from one content type to another to circumvent the punishment while still short-changing your group members would defeat the purpose entirely.

I understand how the penalty works, what I don't understand is why it effects BOTH when you cannot queue for BOTH. Why do they treat them as one for the penalty but separate for queuing? That's what my post is about.

Regarding wasting time, we spent an hour in duty complete. It was 5/8 premade, with me being one of the 3 joining it solo. The premade group refused to abandon and would not vote kick their healer who afked for over 15m to "start dinner." They also thought it would be mildly entertaining to make the other 3 of us wait around and would not agree to dismiss us. They kept pulling the boss and dying on purpose, therefore wasting our time. I was left with options, wait until our instance expired or abandon the duty.

So, while you speculate as to my culpability, you refrain from addressing my original point.

doesn't matter, punishment is still a punishment

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Originally Posted by Yudzster

doesn't matter, punishment is still a punishment

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What's the point of even responding? Lol You clearly are not even remotely grasping the original point if my post.

You can't queue up for both cause they are two different queueing mechanics, like Roulettes and specific dungeons.
The penality for breaking up a party is not "forbidden to queue in (insert queueing method) for 30 mins" it is "forbidden to queue for instanced duties with a party setup"... and this is just to make the penality a penality

If you wish to leave any RF/DF group without penalty - for whatever reason, ask to be dismissed or put forward a vote abandon.

Opting to leave/quit a fully formed party because you feel you're "wasting your time" incurs a 30 minute penalty because you chose to leave your formed group in a lurch, no matter how you joined that party.

System working as designed.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

You clearly are not even remotely grasping the original point if my post.

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The reason the penalties are linked is because they're the same type of content despite using a different interface to join them. Another way to look at it is you can't queue for both a roulette and a normal mode raid at the same time even though they're both in duty finder. And another example of the same situation is with PotD queue.

I.e. the penalty is tied to the type of content not the interface because that is the point of the penalty. It is in place to penalize you from dropping out of matched content early regardless of what that matched content is. If it were tied to the method used to enter the content then (general) you would be able to queue up in 3 different types of matched content and drop early up in each type without any impact on you at all. Meanwhile, all 3 of those parties have been inconvenienced by you.

Also, here's a more explicit example of what your suggestion would result in:

1. Queue up for a savage raid. It doesn't go well right away for whatever reason, so you decide to drop leaving the party in the lurch to find a replacement or disband to start over their potentially long queue.
2. You can immediately queue up for a trial. You get Nabriales or Nidhogg so you decide to bail before it even starts. A second party is left in the lurch yet again.
3. You then immediately queue up for PotD and complete the run.
4. By the time this is done the 30 minute timer is up for the savage raid queue again so you rinse and repeat with no downtime for you whatsoever, but you've managed to inconvenience 14 other people in the meantime.

The penalty as it is currently is working exactly as intended and shouldn't change.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

heres a more explicit example of what your suggestion would result in:

1. Queue up for a savage raid. It doesn't go so you decide to drop leaving the party in the lurch to find a replacement or disband to start over their potentially long queue
2. You can immediately queue up for a trial. You get Nabriales or Nidhogg so you decide to bail before it even starts. A second party is left in the lurch yet again
3. You then immediately queue up for PotD
4. By the time this is done the 30 minute timer is up for the savage raid queue again so you rinse and repeat with no downtime for you whatsoever, but youe managed to inconvenience 14 other people in the meantime

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Ok thank you for putting it into perspective like that for me. It does make sense to preserve the integrity of the system as a whole. Its just unfortunate for those stuck in a similar scenario as I was, but that happening in flux must be a very small probability compared to que abuse.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

Ok thank you for putting it into perspective like that for me. It does make sense to preserve the integrity of the system as a whole. Its just unfortunate for those stuck in a similar scenario as I was, but that happening in flux must be a very small probability compared to que abuse.

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That's pretty much it. Even with the penalty, lots of people drop party upon entering content they dislike, because they can still do non-instanced content for the next 30 min. If it ONLY locked them out of rf/df/PotD/pre-made pf parties or whatever specificway was used to sign up, the penalty wouldn't be much of a penalty at all.

At the same time, your situation sucked (and I hope you reported them for that behaviour), and I can see how frustrating that must have been. But that's why the system is still fairly forgiving - you don't get locked out of ALL content for 30 min; you can still do dailies, Fates, hunts, squadrons and all kinds of other overworld content. So honestly, I think the system is fairly balanced right now between not encouraging abuse while also not making it too unbearable of you HAVE to leave for some reason :)

Despite what the TC did, I do agree with his question though.

Why not make allow us to queue for RF and DF at the same time.

I wanted to queue for all my bird mounts together but I couldn't since some are in RF and some in DF.

First of all, I'm of the belief that the penalty should be say a 12 hour ban from the entire game for dropping out of group content. I dunno, I feel like the current punishment isn't strict enough (be glad I only said that, when I did it, I believed it warranted a permanent ban from the game without appeal. Yes, I've even reported myself to a GM for it to try and make that happen.)

Secondly, in your situation, a report would just go down as difference in playstyle most likely. So unfortunately, suck up the penalty I'm afraid. But I can agree it's one area that needs to be worked on, but I don't know what SE can do.

Thirdly, on the point of queueing up for different things... in RF you can only queue for one duty at a time, just like roulettes. I wonder why?

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Originally Posted by hagare

Despite what the TC did, I do agree with his question though.

Why not make allow us to queue for RF and DF at the same time.

I wanted to queue for all my bird mounts together but I couldn't since some are in RF and some in DF.

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Raid finder is the most difficult content so they have additional options to match people that want practice vs completion, etc. I'm fairly sure once the new Stormblood content comes out and the current end game raid content gets the echo treatment that it will move to duty finder and the raid finder will have the new highest difficulty content instead.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Abandoned you the queue or the already finished party?

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It's kinda hard to abandon a queue when everyone get's upset with you for clicking the button at all. Soon after, they all go "Just leave and take the hit! You're replaceable!"

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

I understand how the penalty works, what I don't understand is why it effects BOTH when you cannot queue for BOTH. Why do they treat them as one for the penalty but separate for queuing? That's what my post is about.

Regarding wasting time, we spent an hour in duty complete. It was 5/8 premade, with me being one of the 3 joining it solo. The premade group refused to abandon and would not vote kick their healer who afked for over 15m to "start dinner." They also thought it would be mildly entertaining to make the other 3 of us wait around and would not agree to dismiss us. They kept pulling the boss and dying on purpose, therefore wasting our time. I was left with options, wait until our instance expired or abandon the duty.

So, while you speculate as to my culpability, you refrain from addressing my original point.

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Because the entire point is to discourage people from quitting their parties. It wouldn't be much of a punishment if you could quit the duty finder than go off to start an extreme primal or potd. Both essentially allow you to ignore the penalty by doing something else whereas the system makes it so you pretty get to do fates or idle for a half hour.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

First of all, I'm of the belief that the penalty should be say a 12 hour ban from the entire game for dropping out of group content. I dunno, I feel like the current punishment isn't strict enough (be glad I only said that, when I did it, I believed it warranted a permanent ban from the game without appeal. Yes, I've even reported myself to a GM for it to try and make that happen.)

Secondly, in your situation, a report would just go down as difference in playstyle most likely. So unfortunately, suck up the penalty I'm afraid. But I can agree it's one area that needs to be worked on, but I don't know what SE can do.

Thirdly, on the point of queueing up for different things... in RF you can only queue for one duty at a time, just like roulettes. I wonder why?

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Putting aside the absurdity of that length. If they ever did make the penalty longer, people would just troll until they were kicked from the party. And if the penalty equally applied to those kicked, people would abuse it whenever they got players who they deemed bad. There's a reason people spam vote abandon in Weeping City.