To Players in Denial the msq for Arr isnt that long SE is just makin a Business Move!

This jump potion business is really throwing me off, on the one hand we have players totally agaisnt it and I totally get where they are coming from. On the other hand we have other players claiming that the story is to long and it takes to long to get to endgame.

My question is are we playing the same game I'm not tryin to troll are be vindictive but seriously. The only way to not progress in msq is to purposely go out of your way not to do it. And I know this because I did it myself I milked the msq quest for Arr for four months because that was my preferred play style. But for your average newer player it doesnt even take a month to finish 2 years worth of msq. So your telling me a month is to long ha that's like one month of subscription. Players have a guide full of mentors in the nn to guide them through the whole course of Arr story. They have players to help run them through dungeons, to help them with gear, in some cases help them with gil also.

Its so easy if someone just simply played one job and leveled up for their cross class skill it still wouldn't take more than a months time, one would have to literally do everything else you could do other than msq to actually take longer than that. So why not just be honest about whats happening here SE is being a business simple and plain, jump potion opens the door for extra money in the cash shop and still being able to be a subscription based game. Are the msq tedious yes sure , but its suppose to be a time sync its suppose to take time but even then new players can condense this game hw included into gettin up to patch 3.5 within a month in a half with ease.

So is it just easier to believe that the msq is just so long that its so hard for new players, or is it just easy to be real and just admit that the game is tryin to stay competitive with all these f2p games. Because frankly they are doing better financially , I want this game to thrive,because it is an amazing game with great people that play it if a jump potion purchase from new players can help boast that then Im all for it. But I'm not gona act like its because the msq is to long to do , and takes 6 months to a year to do these days, cause its not even a quarter of that time. Its sad to say but you look up any thing about top grossing mmos and you wont find ff 14 on any list, and that really sucks. Maybe this is just a move for them to get a piece of that financial pie which hopefully if they do will bring more content for us in the end.

It's not about the length of the MSQ's, it's the way that they are handled. While I do agree that the MSQ for new players (never touched the game prior) might take 1 to 2 months nowadays, veterans making alts on different servers etc, takes only 4 days if you know what you're doing.

In fact it takes only 7 days for a veteran player to do the whole ARR and HW content unlock (raid and extreme primals excluded), if you're playing more than 2 hrs a day.

However the story line of ARR while it goes quicker especially with the boosted exp than 2 years ago, still takes for an experienced player (2.55 - 3.0 itself, with more than 2 hrs a day of playtime) around 2 days just to finish that. And while most cut scenes are skip able, there's a couple of them that can't be skipped or make you run for 4 hrs straight from NPC A to B, back to D and all the way to Z. Even with a mount it's still a waste of time, especially if you're not interested in the story itself.

So my opinion is that, while I do agree with you on some terms, I can see how for a new player or even a veteran player this can be tedious and boring having to go through all this hassle just to enjoy the new expansion or to play with friends. While I am not against the leveling or msq skipping potions, I think SE could have changed the way MSQ is being handled and make some changes to that. But who I am to tell, at the end of day, they need to support their business model and as long as it doesn't turn out to be as bad as most f2p mmo's then there's a lot I personally can ignore or tolerate. Nobody forces me to buy these potions and it doesn't make any changes to my own personal play style.

My question is, why does this matter? So some people think the msq is long. Some don't. SE is making it so that those who think it is long won't have to suffer. Those who think it's fine are free to not get them.

This is so non issue and I really do not understand why there's 10 different threads about it.

The sky isn't falling people.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So your telling me a month is to long ha that's like one month of subscription.

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No rational human being is going to force themselves to spend a month doing something they hate in the hopes they might like what comes afterward. Players that like the story aren't asking to skip it. You're not going to convince players that have no interest in the story that it's so good and they should ~experience it~. If the game hopes to survive long-term there needs to be minimum gating on current content. The players that want to experience the old content will go ahead and do that. The more you force a new player to do, the more of a turn-off the entire experience is in general. The market is saturated. They'll just find another game that does things better.

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

It's not .

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I would of liked to of seen a reworking of some of the gating in this game especially in hw with the fly currents. But just reworking and tweaking probably wont make them as much money as the level potions would, and also I do believe that by introducing this potion that once the community gets use to it I dont really see them stopping there either.

After all why would they if as people claim this game follows in wows footsteps I dont play wow prob never will who knows, but wow makes like hundreds of millions of dollars a year. I think even a game like I use to play swtor does really well as well another game with a subscription of sorts and they have all types of stuff in their cash shop so I don't really see SE stopping with just these potions over time I could be wrong, but what reason would they have not to add more things if you can already skip story and leveling.

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Originally Posted by Aamalthea

My question is, why does this matter? So some people think the msq is long. Some don't. SE is making it so that those who think it is long won't

The sky isn't falling people.

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But Im not even questioning the jump potion I'm asking people whats wrong with saying the words ok, SE wants to take a step into this type market instead of blaming it on the msq. I actually say it doesnt bother me at all , what Im sayin is the writing is on the wall that this is a cash grab and Im ok with that so , why blame it on the story being to long and just be realistic that this is a new way of doing business for the company when they release them. I just don't see the logic in blaming things on the msq is all Im saying, not that Im agaisnt the jump potion, I just dont like the blame being placed on the story content in the game.

I'd like to remind people that in order to buy any of the story or level jump potions you must have an active account with subscription.
Meaning the players have gone though few days of trail and have seen the MSQ. Now it is up to them whether they want to keep doing the MSQ or skip it.

On average it would take 1 month to finish ARR and 2 weeks to finish HW. That is 44 days, which is not so bad.

44 days might not sound much to some. But remember this, you are playing and leveling 1 job while doing the MSQ only. That is how you spent your 44 days.
Not leveling other jobs no side quests not unlocking anything optional. Just MSQ with 1 job for 44 days.

If a player gets bored and feeling that he is forced to go though this, it will be bad for their business.

I have friends who want to raid and do end game but they can't power through the story so it bored them and they quit. Jump potion has caught their eye and they're gonna play again when it comes out which I'm totally fine with. They like the game, combat, classes but hate the story, I told them it was a story driven game they hit 30 and stopped. For me it'll be nice to have my IRL friends come back for what they enjoy (raiding, PvP, extremes) so for me the jump potion is fine if people want to enjoy those aspects of the game.

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Originally Posted by Awful

I have friends who .

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What are they gona do when they have to do storm blood story, if their patients isnt vary tolerant of msq? Because Im really hoping that its a lot of story in storm blood and they don't do a trend of just slashing and cutting the story each exp because people say that its to long.

When they come back Alexander will be dead for those raids, and they would still have to do the whole msq for storm blood to get to the next set of raids and stuff so they would still have to do the same exact sort of power leveling. Like I said I'm with the game on the business move, but the players that say the story is to long I just cant follow this logic personally but everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I just hope that It doesn't effect those whom enjoy the story ,by SE taking a step back from long msq because people claim that its to long.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

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You missed the point where I said they like X things about the game they don't care about story but we'll be playing again together since I was 60 last time they picked up the game. As for raiding you think I care or they'd care about Alexander in 4.0? It's about later down the road not raiding right now, yes the story isn't that big of a hindrance but for people who just wanna dive in with friends I get it. I personally enjoy the story I don't want it getting cut but I also wanna enjoy lvling with my friends. Jump potions are coming out it's not the end of the world for story you're just being over dramatic.

As for doing MSQ yeah they know they have to do it but this time it's not 1-70 which for them is great. Do I care? No I just wanna have fun and have more people enjoy the game and have more people to do stuff with because I don't wanna force friends into something they don't wanna do. Which is exactly how I felt seeing them try different classes being bored with story when they just wanna jump in.

But now they can and it's fine that they wanna play this way WoW does it and ffxiv is doing it now too if you wanna catch up with friends there shouldn't be a big ordeal over it it's not your money.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And I know this because I did it myself I milked the msq quest for Arr for four months because that was my preferred play style.

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if you can acknowledge that you have your own preferred play style, you should see that other people will also have theirs which is different from yours.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

My question is are we playing the same game I'm not tryin to troll are be vindictive but seriously.

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it's the same game the players are what's different.

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Originally Posted by Awful

You missed the point where

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But I wasn't even being agaisnt the jump potion like I stated from the beginning more so the blame on the msq is what bothers me. I mention I want the game to thrive and to be competitive with other games with similar systems. I was saying that your friends wouldnt care about Alexander at that point and that they still would have to do msq either way it goes, that if they didnt wana do arr or hw story then why would they wana do the next expansion story. So I was just stating that it just doesnt really sound like the game is your friends cup of tea, even with level jump you cant just jump right into the newest raid so if they got tired of msq up to level 30 they prob would get tired of it in storm blood up to level 65 what would be the difference.

Im all for a jump potion like I said but the notion that the story is to long from anyone is just what isnt clicking to me , anybody can do this story in a few weeks max is what Im saying. And what my post was disagreeing with is that the devs are placing the blame on their own story rather than just saying we want new players and a jump potion is a way to do it and this will bring more profit to the game. I wouldn't call it dramatic just more so being realistic that at the end of the day its about profit not a problem with the story.

Ahh I see what you're saying yeah you might be right about them getting tired of MsQ by 65 but we'll have to see. The expansion is up in arms right now with updated combat n what not so it might be better. For now it's just a waiting game for everyone really and who knows maybe they won't like it but they're gonna give it another go.

I think that Story Skip potions are going to be somewhat of a necessity to get new players into FFXIV going forward. As stated, it takes a veteran player a full week or more to get through all the pre-heavensward content on an alt. For a completely new player, a full month or longer isn't out of the question. If potential new players aren't liking the idea of having to go through all the old content to get to the latest stuff, they're not gonna go through it. That means that either they're going to skip the content (with a story skip item), or they're gonna go play something else that's easier to get into. Is there something SQEX can do besides just make it so you can pay to skip the story? Sure there is: They can streamline the story - considerably, in many places. But doing that costs development time, which costs money, and SQEX is in the business of making money. Not only that, but no matter how much they streamline the story, it'll still take time to get through it, and there are people out there who just want to play the current game without having to go through all that story.

TL;DR: You might not like Story Skip potions, and you might not ever use one, but they're a necessity if SQEX wants to keep getting new players into FFXIV going forward.

Note: I didn't say anything about the Leveling potions here, but I don't think having them is going to make things any worse than they are now, and using one (or grinding levels via FATEs/PotD) may be a prerequisite to using a story skip potion.

--Erim Nelhah

Honestly, all they need is a potion that skips from the MSQ where you beat Lahabrea up to entering Ishgard. That's the only part that is SUPER annoying, in my personal opinion. The level gating isn't AS bad now, since we have PotD. I have a lot of alts and I'm so tempted to use the potion, even though I love the story. It's just getting up to HW that is tedious. But something I'm wondering with the potion is, do you get all the minions, mounts, and zone flying when you use the potion?

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

No rational human being is going to force themselves to spend a month doing something they hate in the hopes they might like what comes afterward. Players that like the story aren't asking to skip it. You're not going to convince players that have no interest in the story that it's so good and they should ~experience it~. If the game hopes to survive long-term there needs to be minimum gating on current content. The players that want to experience the old content will go ahead and do that. The more you force a new player to do, the more of a turn-off the entire experience is in general. The market is saturated. They'll just find another game that does things better.

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No rational human beeing starts watching a movie after 80 minutes, but they want to skip a huge part of a game because they are just interested in the end of the game. Maybe SE should deliver all of their games with Potions to skip everything. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Ilan

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Games aren't movies. People play games for gameplay. People play MMOs in particular to play with their friends. Not a lot of fun if you're stuck gated behind a whole bunch of garbage you're not interested in.

As long as they don't get the achievements and I can still get first time bonuses from people who skipped it's fine with me.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

Games aren't movies. People play games for gameplay. People play MMOs in particular to play with their friends. Not a lot of fun if you're stuck gated behind a whole bunch of garbage you're not interested in.

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It doesn't matter if movie or game. And sorry if you think a game is a bunch of garbage, why the hell did you continue playing at all? I really don't know what's wrong with the people that they've become so lazy that they want to skip right to the end of a game instead of enjoying it right from the start. And always these lame excuses with "friends". Most people who play MMO's don't start playing it with friends, they meet people in the game and call them "friends".

The potions will come anyway, but how people want to justify the use of them is just absurd.

But why does it have to be a cash grab either? And why does THAT matter at all? The gaming industry changes. What you want to classify something as is irrelevant and does nothing but satisfy a need to complain or justify a certain thing.

Successful games make it easier for people to access their endgame. FFFXIV is doing that. End of story.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Most people who play MMO's don't start playing it with friends, they meet people in the game and call them "friends".

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And you know this how exactly? You can only speak for yourself/your circle of friends. Every MMO I have ever played (and I am 43.. I have played a lot of MMOs) has fallen into two categories: a) Something a friend tried and recommended to me or b) Something I tried and then recommended to friends. I hardly think my situation is unique.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

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What you call lazy, I call efficient! And guess what? I would have never gotten into this game if it wasn't for my friend introducing me to it when 2.0 launched. I have many mates in my FC that joined the game because their friends recommended it to them, so don't go around assuming "most" people don't jump into this game on their own.

All this talk of how people are "lazy" or other special words for wanting to skip old content is just reeking of "back in MY day..." All it takes is word of mouth to spread that newbies are expected to slog through 2 games worth of quests before playing the newest expansion pack and sub numbers will sink as fast as 1.0 did. Retention, baby!

What I'm worried about though, is the sticking factor of people that use the potions. I know everyones experience and preferences are different, but when I played through the game up to cap on my first job, I was excited about every new thing. I looked forward to every new dungeon and learning the new primal fights I unlocked, and I generally had a fun time doing everything, even the MSQ. I had fun playing the game.

If I had played and got to level 30 or something and felt bored, that would kind of be like a red flag to me to stop playing the game, that It probably wasn't for me. I mean if i played over half the game and I wasn't having fun so far, I probably wouldn't have fun at higher levels, or any level for that matter.

I mean you can say that people just want to play the end game stuff, and that's all they want to do.. But If they aren't having fun playing the game up to that point, how long will they actually have fun with the end game before getting bored of that, because they don't actually find the game play fun?

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Originally Posted by Ilan

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You don't seem to understand why most people play MMOs. You also don't seem to understand or acknowledge opinions that don't match your own.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I would of liked to of seen a reworking of some of the gating in this game especially in hw with the fly currents.

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They've already both changed the currents to be more easily found and allowed flight on a two-seater, so a friend can zip someone through it I'd they're truly lazy. What more would you want?

The MSQ isn't long. If it was I wouldn't have to grind sidequests in order to get at the required level to continue it. That's a bigger problem, you're doing the MSQ and suddenly there's this gap that doesn't allow you to continue.

Here's my question what does it bother you if this person skips the main story Questline? I mean it doesn't affect your gameplay in any way shape or form. And it's not like it has anything to do with how they play their job or class they don't know something about the lore who cares maybe people just want to get into game playing get past Lore to get the other stuff. Basically it comes down to it someone wants to skip past main story Quest they're going to do it be it through skip potions if you will or just going through cutscenes as fast as they freaking can. Don't worry if someone doesn't know the Lord it hopefully doesn't affect your game play and just continue on with whatever you're doing.

Only issue I see with this, because they did this in World of Warcraft is you will end up with a bunch of new players with almost maxed out characters who don't have a clue how their class works, or understand any of the mechanics of the content they skip. So then you end up with a bunch of players in dungeons, trails and raids that haven't got a clue how anything works, which will end up with a lot of grief popping up both in game and on the forums.

Only argument not to have jump potions is that they might not know how to play there job... but honestly how often do you do random shit with strangers? probably only the roulette right? People in roulette already put in the minimal amount of effort to get through it, so basically nothing is going to change, by including the potions. It just brings more players into the game.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

No rational human beeing starts watching a movie after 80 minutes, but they want to skip a huge part of a game because they are just interested in the end of the game. Maybe SE should deliver all of their games with Potions to skip everything. :rolleyes:

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No rational person makes someone watch every game in an NBA/NFL/NHL/MLB season before they can watch the playoffs.
No rational person makes someone watch the Simpsons/Family Guy/South Park from Season 1 Episode 1.

Don't pretend like more than 5% of the people who log into the game between now and 3.5 is doing it because of the linearity of the MSQ. I'm not doing Red Gatherer's Scrips right now because it feels like a movie.

Only read opening post; haven't read replies yet. Maybe these things were mentioned before by others, maybe not. Not sure, but these are just my thoughts and opinions on the MSQ skip potions.

The issue I have with the MSQ skip potions are that they're just a band-aid to try and fix a larger issue with this game's design.
This is the main issue I have with them, not the only issue, but I won't get into those here.

I'll preface with saying that I love the story in this game. I have alts just so I can go through the story again, and experience it on different characters, or as a different job from what my main was when she did the MSQ. I have no intentions of using job potions for alts because spending extended periods of time on story content doesn't bother me. I enjoy doing it when I'm burnt out or bored on my main because I've already finished capping tomes or doing my dailies or whatever.

HOWEVER. SE continues to lock new expansions behind the previous ones. 3.0 was locked behind completion of 2.0 and 2.x. 4.0 is going to be locked behind completion of 3.0 and 3.x. While 3.x isn't nearly as long or as fluffy/full of filler content like 2.x was, the fact that SE continues to make previous expansions prerequisites for future expansions only increases the appeal of MSQ skip potions for those that are so eager to get to the Mystical Endgame, and who don't care about the MSQ. If 5.0 is locked behind 4.0, and 6.0 locked behind 5.0, etc., it will eventually come to a point where a new player, unless they WANT to slog through 4 or 5 expansions and years of old content to reach the current endgame, will be almost forced to pay for a skip potion.

I understand that fixing 2.0 and 2.x MSQs would take a lot of work and dev time away from newer content. I'm not suggesting SE focus on that (as much as I think that would be a better solution). But SE can start rectifying their past mistakes of locking expansions behind other expansions starting with 5.0 (since they've basically already said 4.0 is gated behind 3.0+3.x). And perhaps that would reduce the need to purchase MSQ skip potions as this game continues to grow, and will hopefully promote newer players coming into said game. However, SE is a business, and businesses live to make money. So I don't really foresee any kind of fixes to the game formula, especially if it means the skip potion's appeal will grow as time passes and new expansions are added.

I personally think that if SE cared so much about "catching new players up with veterans", since this is their claim behind wanting to add said potions, they would take a note from WoW's book (since so many people seem to want FFXIV to be similar to WoW), and include a free MSQ skip potion with the purchase of a new expansion, and still offer additional ones in the Cash Shop, since, they're going to shove it in there anyways. Instead, they stack charges, and charge new players for:

1. Subscription
2. Base game (A Realm Reborn)
3. Expansion(s) (since the skip potions are predicted to come between 4.0 and 5.0 [probably 5.0], this means Heavensward AND Stormblood)
4. MogStation transaction for Skip Potion

That's a lot of cashy-grabby. Me, personally, if I were a new player and saw that I, not only had to pay any where from $50 to $100 (depending on current sale prices/deals) to get the base game/expansions, AND start paying $10-15/month sub cost AND THEN pay $20-ish for a skip potion, I'd probably say "Lol nope." But, that's just my opinion on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

I really don't know what's wrong with the people that they've become so lazy that they want to skip right to the end of a game instead of enjoying it right from the start.

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Was going to make a huge post on this but basically when MMOs were young developers actually cared about making an immersive experience with proper world building, exploration, community interaction, etc. In EQ/early WoW/XI everything was focused on doing stuff with other people and helping eachother out which helped form passionate communities. Then came the advent of end game, which lead to people becoming "raiders", which lead to people only caring about end game because "that's where the real challenge is!", which lead to everything that old MMOs stood for dying. A lot of people like to say that XIV is a "story-driven MMO" which sounds like it'd be good on paper, but it just means that there's a linear quest-to-quest-to-quest path that leads you to the end of the game. No more exploring, no more excitement, no more need for a community since you can just queue into DF for everything, etc. etc.

How grinding for gear is so fun is beyond me haha

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Stuff

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I personally hate the jump potion but I do agree with SE decision to gate expansions behind story this isn't WoW, story is a huge part of the game and a continuous narrative is why I keep playing if they had to reset it every expansion or start completely from scratch I would definitely be less engaged in the game and if someone wants to skip it they should pay.

Anyways the jump potion should never be mandatory so don't list it like you need to buy it and honestly I can see alts making up most of purchases not new players, SE should still be trimming the 2.0-2.55 content prior to 4.0 considering the jump potion won't be ready in time for release.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

How grinding for gear is so fun is beyond me haha

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I mean that depends do you raid or do you farm tomestones every week? Idk how this came about while we're all talking about the Jump Potions that you create-unless you're talking about free 50 gear that they get or whatever then that's fine.

But back to it, a lot of raiders raid to get their BiS and most optimal gear such as myself it's a thrill to push yourself to the max as a tank or healer or dps that's one of the only reasons why I raid to get better and optimize myself for raids. If you don't find it fun it's fine but if you're going about it via tomestones yeah I can see how you can get bored/burned out.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

But SE can start rectifying their past mistakes of locking expansions behind other expansions starting with 5.0 (since they've basically already said 4.0 is gated behind 3.0+3.x). And perhaps that would reduce the need to purchase MSQ skip potions as this game continues to grow, and will hopefully promote newer players coming into said game.

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It's not a mistake, it's a design choice. They want to tell one continuous related story. If the story is not over it has to be linked.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The issue I have with the MSQ skip potions are that they're just a band-aid to try and fix a larger issue with this game's design.

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Your issue with it is not "fixable" the way you think it is.

for FFXI each expansion is a self-contained story with no overlap, the main characters and most of the supporting cast are different for each one and the villains are different in each one.

for FFXIV the Scions grow/change throughout every expansion and the Ascians and Garleans so far have their hooks in everything. FFXIV can't break into a new story until the WoL defeats Zodiark and overthrows the Empire. when they make an expansion story that has no Scions/Ascians/Garleans/GC Leaders in it you'll get one that can be started without completing anything of the others.

I'm only against the story potion. The XP one is fine, but the story skipping ability should be there by default. The biggest problem with the MSQ is that it's required to enter dungeons/zones. If SE would just unlock those dungeons/zones so that someone could enter them regardless of where they are in the MSQ, it would fix the problem. There's no reason to make people pay for that.

But why not tho to me the price is warranted because of the longevity issues. Even if they only charged ten bucks has to be something , If someone comes in with jump potion only intentions I'm sure a longevity of pT will exist. So important to get most front end money as possible if u skip seventy five percent of the game I doubt u will be a six month or year subber