Will they ever make it so that our attacks feel like it's dealing damage to enemies? Our skills look nice and all, but it's more like fireworks than real impactful attacks. Lately, it feels like my attacks doesn't hit the enemies, and the damage numbers are all over, it's hard to tell who dealt which damage.
Impactful Attacks
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12-06-2016, 07:30 PMRaltsImpactful Attacks
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12-06-2016, 07:38 PMMartin_Arcainess
Those small numbers you see are your party members/other peoples damage yours is clearly stated by the name of the attack you done with the damage you done next to it in orange letters.
As for the animation of the attack, it depends. I mean what do you want fast blade to do? Trigger a flare like kaboom? Fast blade! BAAM! lol jk bud.
But as how the animation gose, what is a impact or pain dealing supposed to look like? I know where WOL but I'd still like to feel like a human not some over the top anime super one punch man hero.
It all falls down to preference. -
12-06-2016, 08:35 PMRufalus
I think it will always be like that without proper physics and collision, like an mmo limitation. Not just your attacks but your whole body clip through enemy and you can stand inside them. Can never hug friend because we all ghosties /o\
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12-06-2016, 09:07 PMEnur
Its the sound design that fails in FFXIV imo, all attacks sound weak. no "oomph" to anything just "pat pat pat pif" (bootshine)
While im no sound technician im guessing its a lack of bass in the attack sounds. you cant feel it like you can in gw2. that game knows how to mae satisfying sounds -
12-06-2016, 09:49 PMMeeka19
My husband had your exact complaint. He tried all the classes and he didn't find any that entirely satisfied him. I feel similarly it just wasn't as immediately noticeable to me.
They're reworking the way skills work for the next expansion (apparently summer/mid 2017 or something). So if anyone else has ideas as to the why's of that feeling do tell, they may read the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
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12-07-2016, 04:20 AMVanilleFang
Jumps feel pretty impactful.
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12-07-2016, 04:45 AMWelsper59That thump when you fall can sometimes feel uncomfortable.Quote:
Originally Posted by VanilleFang
For that "impact" type of feel, it heavily relies on proper sound effects and (sometimes) camera angles. A perfect example is the Rocksteady Batman Arkham games. Attacking as Batman, be it hits/blocks/cape stuns, have a connection to the feel of impact. Add to it those close-up shots of the final blow and you have a satisfying feeling of combat.
Obviously, camera work isn't exactly something to expect here (since we control it) and skill/spell animation also has a hand in it. What they can do though, is add those SFX to a proper degree. It's quite possible, as even WoW has some skills that have a decent "impact" feel to it (e.g. Rogue's old Envenom shink sound).
FFXIV often fails to emphasize its use of sound. I've said this many times in the past about the music in this game, but it also carries over to effects. To be clear, this is not a dig at the music, as I think it's mostly great. This is a comment on the use of it, or in the case of the effects, the proper sounds for some skills. Archer/Bard have a decent impact feel when the attack connects with the mob, with that sharp thud sound. NIN, however, feels disconnected with its generic short blade SFX, as though you're just slicing air. -
12-07-2016, 04:57 AMDzian
I've said this ever since beta. In 1.23 everything skill you used felt like it had power and impacted the battle. But since beta that's disappeared.
The problem is skills are spammed and there ridicously weak. Even an open world trash mobs an take a dozen plus skills to kill. A monster so weak it could beat on you for several minutes and still not dent your hp.
Why does it take so many of your skills to kill something so weak... only further emphasises the lack of power or weight they have.
To this day I still say the 1.23 attlee system was a lot better than what we have now -
12-07-2016, 05:47 AMThunda_Cat_SMASH
I can't say I've particularly noticed any particular lack of impact, when it comes to sounds. Personally, I'd like to see more pronounced stagger effects on pc's. Like, an attack that deals 2/3 of the pc's HP bar in damage caused them to take a few steps back, or knocks them down to one knee.
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12-07-2016, 05:56 AMNaunetHave to agree 100%. There is way too much treble in game sounds overall. That's one of the big reasons the main combat music is so grating on the ears, too (aside from the fact that you here it constantly). A deeper sound playing when a large attack hits helps it "feel" heavier and stronger. Both GW2 and WoW I think are MMOs with very good sound and effect design as far as how satisfying abilities are to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
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12-07-2016, 07:20 AMVanilleFangStone III sounds like it obliterates anything it is cast on, so I kind of have to agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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12-07-2016, 07:41 AMAtoli
It does not feel to me as if the impact of my skills is too weak, but then again, I hear a big explosion and see a giant fireball and a really big dent in the opponent's HP with each Fire IV, so yeah :p
For classes like my NIN, BRD or lately MNK I do not expect them to have crazy sounds or animations. Shooting an arrow or punching with my bare fist SHOULD not sound and look the same as if I just threw a bomb at the boss. -
12-07-2016, 09:23 AMbasketofsealsCan you name any skills in particular? I don't recall any of the elemental spells having that much wait, and iirc the PLD skills are the exact same ones we have now just slowed down. I do miss that fire blade attack though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
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12-07-2016, 07:22 PMRalts
Most sword attacks sound like we're sharpening a knife
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12-07-2016, 07:53 PMDzianI'm gonna say everything basically. the battle system as a whole had more weight to it. some skills just emphasised it more.Quote:
Originally Posted by basketofseals
the problem here is that you're pressing so many buttons and they all have such similar effects that combat feels nothing more than a glorifed auto attack.
it's almost like a fight between arnie and mr burns from the simpsons. arnie is the warrior of light mr burns is almost any enemy within the game. mr burns could be standing there for ages trying to hurt arnie and arnie wouldn't feel a thing. but at the same time it would still take arnie a dozen of his "powerfull skills" to knock mr burns down... 12 of your best hits or "skills" to defeat a frail old man that hardly has the strength to even raise his hand let alone hit you with it..... doesn't sound very powerfull does it... if anyone saw arnie smacking an old man 12 times and the old man just stands there and takes it they would laugh so hard "look at arnie couldn't even fight his way out of a wet paper bag with hits like that"
in 1.23 I would quite often run around natalan at 50 soloing mobs at 52 or so for the chest keys (sentinals gear was the great back then) run up to a mob stun it get behind it and smash out a combo and bam that thing was dead on to the next.... you felt powerful because you're skills felt like they actually hit hard.
I think maybe the pace and auto attacks helped here. because you actually saw them in 1.23 so when you repeatedly saw auto attacks hitting for a couple of hundred damage and the skill you pressed hit for a couple of thousand there was a huge feeling of power to it...
currently though people hit skills so fast and so often you never see the auto attacks all you see is a bunch of attacks that all do largely the same amount of damage there no real distinction between one and the next and thus it feels like nothing more than a glorified autoattack.. there's never any real oomph to it.
it's not a sound thing either. with the pace of combat in this game and the number of players using skills at any given time the last thing you need is more bass and oomph in the sound effects. but that would also detract because if you added the oomph to the sound effects skills would then sound more powerfull than they really are. you'd end up with massive booms that sound epic, but hardly touch a monsters hp and so many of those epic booms that they'd just drown each other out entirely. combat would sound like an epic warzone but look like a pre school play ground scrap. -
12-07-2016, 07:55 PMEnurI'd like to point to the Stormblood teaser trailer. Now those punches are impactful. Unlike the weak sounds we got now.Quote:
@Atoli punching with my bare fist SHOULD not sound and look the same as if I just threw a bomb at the boss.
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12-07-2016, 07:58 PMThunda_Cat_SMASH
Did they? I thought that was the echo from the giant curled hand they were standing in. :'D They are fairly close to a rock wall.
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12-07-2016, 08:18 PMEnur
In the teaser as they zoomed out you can see the large shockwaves produced by the monks fighting. It was their punches producing the lovely sounds that caused the water in the bucket to ripple.
as to meeka on page one, i did create a thread a few months ago. People didnt seem to get my points.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-Sound-Design -
12-07-2016, 08:45 PMZojhaI don't feel that's an issue, honestly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
Having played an Assassin in Dragon's Dogma not long ago (dual dagger class), even those attacks seemed pretty impactful and as an action game, I was pretty much mashing buttons like crazy. Snake/Spiderbite and Masterful Kill were probably my favourite, but even rapid attacks like Scarlet Kisses felt very satisfying. That's not even mentioning the glory of heavy 2-handed weapons that just felt immensely powerful, whether you ploughed through bandit/goblin packs or staggered creatures 3-4 times your size with it.
It's very hard to nail on one thing in particular. The fact that people never really stagger, pause or show any signs of being wailed on is probably one of the reasons why attacks feel less impactful. Sound effects "do" matter, but I will agree however that it can seem odd to hear a heavy impact and see no actual dent in the HP. What irks me more is that hit sounds are identical, whether they hit metal, wood or flesh. I think one of the biggest reasons however is that attacks simply don't do a lot of damage relative to the HP - In 24 man raids, even a LB3 can feel rather "meh", because it's still only like 3-4% of the mobs HP. Huge buildup, big animation, big oomph...and you go:"That was it? ._.' " -
12-07-2016, 09:22 PMRalts
I agree in some degree with Dzian
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12-07-2016, 10:38 PMCookieMonsta
Turn up dat bass
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12-07-2016, 11:24 PMReplicaXI understand where you are coming from on look and feel, but playability was sacrificed heavily. 1.xx had very little tactical purpose for its pace. So many changes were made to combat in 1.2x+ and the direction they were going with the content additions to the point where the dev team hit a brick wall with Crystal Tools (CT).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
My original hopes were a happy medium on combat pace and its look and feel with ARR. However, with the mechanics they were moving towards, this seemed extremely hard to implement. Especially with a console limited to 256GB of RAM and 256GB of VRAM (PS3).
Sadly, there are some that want the GCD even faster than it is currently. -
12-08-2016, 01:28 AMEnur
Wow is a game that uses a faster gcd than ffxiv. Attack speed is not the issue as Wow skills still feel a helluva lot more impactful than ffxiv.
A fury warrior in wow felt like a berserker thrashing the foes, a monk felt like a martial artist who crushed the enemies bones, a paladin felt like a righteous crusader vanquishing evil. i could go on.
In ffxiv on the other hand, nothing really stands out. Lets take a strong attack.. Rage of Halone. this attack feels weak as all you do is flail your sword as if it its weightless while making swishy-swashy sounds. you cant hear it hit the enemy.
the monk equivalent would be snap punch. this ability sounds awesome right? youre punching with a snap. you expect to hear that but all you get is a "thud" while doing a funny pose. no crispy, satisfying attack. no snap. just a blunt thud. -
12-08-2016, 02:36 AMThatPlayer
I've seen a lot of people say something similar about several games, yet I can never figure out what they mean lol. Is it sound? Effects? Or do you want things to kinda slow down like in BDO? Or is it damage?
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12-08-2016, 02:57 AMJunseiKei
I like FFXIV's more realistic approach to sounds being applied to skills.
A monk uses their fist. Ever hit someone for real? You probably didn't even make a sound close to what a monk's punches do in FFXIV. They aren't super unrealistic.
Same thing with swinging a sword. Ever swung one? Chances are, probably not, depending on the type of sword and how you attack, what they gave paladin and dark knights aren't unrealistic either.
Honestly, I think too many games give moves and attacks too much of the "Hollywood treatment" and over exaggerate too much. Or I just like simplier and quieter sounds since I tend to have sound effects turned down the most. -
12-08-2016, 03:22 AMEnur
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bVUR9xN8OI
Thats a Snap Punch. Quick, crisp and whip like. In game its slow and boring to both look at and hear. -
12-08-2016, 04:36 AMRaltsQuote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
What? Those swings are far from realistic, and i've trained with a 2-handed sword lol -
12-08-2016, 05:00 AMWelsper59When the argument is about the "feeling" of it, you can't apply RL sounds to them. IRL, you literally feel the impact of punching or hitting something with a weapon. In a game, IRL impact sounds on flesh (or simulated flesh) are hardly something of excitement... depending on moisture, it's more gross than exciting lol. The sounds in this game are fantastical, but certainly not of a good quality when it comes to that "impact" feel. The sounds we have in this game are (mostly) the equivalent of someone going "whoosh" IRL. It's fine, but it's a different degree of fake, compared to a quality sound effect that makes the listener feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by JunseiKei
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12-08-2016, 05:18 AMAkashiXI
I always thought that it would be nice if anytime we crit an enemy, their flinch would be more noticeable, but only when a single player is on the enemy. Having more than 3-4 players on any enemy would result in the mob having a seizure. Either way, I would like to see some different animations for hurting enemies, even if it means only for raid bosses.
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12-08-2016, 09:59 AMJim_Berry
I understand. In FFXI, when a SAM using Tachi: Gekko, you felt it, even though you're on another job. Also, Crit hits there give a different sound and visual effect.
When I use Trick Attack in FFXIV, it just feels like a normal attack. I think abilities like the last hit from Butcher's Block should feel like it hit hard. -
12-08-2016, 10:04 AMJim_BerryExactly! And, like, why give it an animation of 5 hits when the last attack is what actually grab the mob's attention?Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
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12-08-2016, 10:30 AMShurrikhan
Though for me the lack of any ragdoll, knockback, staggering or collision is far more significant to the lack of "impactful" feeling in XIV's skills than the underutilized and untermastered combat SFX, I think the latter's the only one with a real hope of change in this game.
Sadly, I don't say that just because it's an MMO; others have pulled that off decently well.
That said, I feel like every move in the direction of improvement would be an boon both in long run and short, e.g. giving back multi-hit skills multiple hits, and giving a reason that they might perform differently than single-hit skills other than just wasting single-hit buffing abilities like Life Surge. -
12-08-2016, 12:49 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHSame reason Maim is 2 hits, BB is 3, Demolish is 6, Vorpal Thrust is 2, Straight Shot is 2, Gust Slash is 5, Scourge is 2... only one hit isn't always as impactful or entertaining to execute as multiple hits in rapid succession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim_Berry
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12-08-2016, 05:00 PMHelSpitesDid we play the same game? One of my biggest problems with WoW was that the combat had absolutely no impact to it at all. I played a WW monk in WoW and their skills generally felt like crap. The only half decent skill they had was that rapid punch thing and even that didn't feel particularly fun to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
Honestly, I don't get the complaints in this thread. The combat in ff14 feels a lot more impactful that most mmos I've played. The only ones that really have a leg up on ff14 are black desert and tera (and vindictus if you count that as an mmo) and that's because those are action mmos with hit stun after every attack. That's not exactly something you can implement in a more traditional mmo combat system like ff14's. -
12-08-2016, 05:24 PMShurrikhanIt seems a mixed bag to me as well. It's notoriously difficult to tell when a fire mage has cast many of its skills, for instance, unless looking at its procs or floating combat text caused, due to so many instants and "castable while casting" skills in play, while many of the two-handed melee hits actually feel nice and chunky. Others still, like WW Monk make you notice just how much you're basically just a column hit box hovering around another column hit box and tossing vague animations vaguely in the enemy's direction. Overall, I feel like every comparison between WoW and XIV's animation "impactfulness" would likely fall in XIV's favor if only there was some actual animation on the receiving side for hits taken, even if as general or shallow as XIII's.Quote:
Originally Posted by HelSpites
Sadly, other games that do feel like they have meaty, impactful hits fall into the world of ani-cancel (at least for any remotely serious or even decent play), wherein the animations themselves blur into a flailing of limbs, making them less than ideal examples. (See: Blade and Soul, especially KFM. Sometimes the cancellation is less than jarring, and other times it's almost hard on the eyes.)
And they'd be more engaging still if they still actually dealt damage on each hit, instead of being so obvious a veneer over a single hit (and a delayed one, at that). Imagine if there was actually a sort of crit chance accretion on those multi-strikes, so that each crit in series has you subconsciously a bit more hyped for the next damage read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH
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12-08-2016, 06:49 PMGumberculesYeah I can see this really adding to the impact of blows in combat, kinda how the first time you hear fell cleave go off is actually memorable cuz of that saw like swoosh sound. Sound can really bring alot to a game's combat. Dont get me wrong its ok atm but could be better, like id like for axe attacks for example to have a louder noise to their blunt sound...hell id say even gorier sound. Or like bard attacks sounding like they are hitting "flesh" and not just kinda lazerish sounds (mch is ok since its a gun)Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur
on the wow thing: While I got fed up with legion pretty quick some of the melee animation changes were really damn nice, and a big impact of it is sound.
Also I could really get behind "smaller" numbers showing up for multi hit WS. I feel it really would add to the overall feel that you are infact hitting multiple times. (for example the first "hits" are just shown off current base damage calculation and last "hit" tallies the remaining extra damage, which would work since most of these multi hit attacks are designed to make last hits seem "heavier") -
12-08-2016, 08:46 PMJunseiKeiI mean, hitting a bag and hitting someone in the face don't sound the same. Hitting someone in the face is a pretty dull sound and nothing like that crisp sound you'd get from a bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enur