2 questions regarding Healer DPS

So I'm mostly a SCH main, and I noticed that most of the time playing as SCH I was just pressing 1 for Broil until my eyes fell out of my sockets.

So now I have 2 questions:
1. In your personal opinion, which healer is the most satisfying to DPS as? WHM seems obvious, it hurls rocks and gusts of wind at people and you get to spam Holy, but at the same time AST seems like it has a similar deal with its malefics and Gravity, as well as the jolly fun of enhanced arrow or balance.

2. Whats the best way to DPS as SCH? Should I be making sure that all of my DoTs are up the whole duration of long fights? Or should I just be pressing 1 all the time?

1: SCH is the most satisfying healer to DPS as because you can contribute so much utility while never leaving Clerics.

2: DOTS are by far the highest potency per cast providing you get most of the duration of the DOT.

Bio - 240
Miasma - 320
Bio 2 - 350
Shadow flare - 250
Aero - 200
Miasma II on 3 targets - 210 (70 each)
Blizzard 2 - 50 per target

Broil - 170

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Originally Posted by cetrei

So I'm mostly a SCH main, and I noticed that most of the time playing as SCH I was just pressing 1 for Broil until my eyes fell out of my sockets.

So now I have 2 questions:
1. In your personal opinion, which healer is the most satisfying to DPS as? WHM seems obvious, it hurls rocks and gusts of wind at people and you get to spam Holy, but at the same time AST seems like it has a similar deal with its malefics and Gravity, as well as the jolly fun of enhanced arrow or balance.

2. Whats the best way to DPS as SCH? Should I be making sure that all of my DoTs are up the whole duration of long fights? Or should I just be pressing 1 all the time?

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Broil is supposed to be your filler between DoT refreshes; you're only prioritizing Broil if you're attacking targets that die too quickly for your DoTs to be worth casting.

1. I think WHM AoE is the most satisfying in terms of burst, but like Xero said, SCH is extremely well-suited to filling a support DPS role while multi-tasking. Also, SCH DPS is, of course, easily sustainable MP-wise.

2. DoTs. DoTs. DoTs. Broil when you don't need to cast anything else. DoTs about to fall off? Reapply unless the target will die before they can tick enough to be worth it.

The rule of thumb for SCH dots is if they will tick for at least 15 seconds, go for it. If you are looking to weave energy drain with bio/aero, 6 seconds is a dps gain.

I personally find WHM to be the most fun. I'm pretty bias though, and I'm not sure if I would classify it as satisfaction.

Though I do get a feeling of euphoria when I hit every member of a large group of mobs with Aero III. People love Holy, but Aero III is my favourite drug.

Astrologian is my main job but even I can admit it's got the least fun DPS "rotation". 3 DoTs (one of which isn't unique to the job) and either a ghetto Holy or a prettier, slightly weaker version of Stone III. At least the other Healers have oGCD damage abilities...

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Originally Posted by Rennies

Astrologian is my main job but even I can admit it's got the least fun DPS "rotation". 3 DoTs (one of which isn't unique to the job) and either a ghetto Holy or a prettier, slightly weaker version of Stone III. At least the other Healers have oGCD damage abilities...

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Gravity is kinda pretty. But yeah, AST is sorta "meh" with DPS.

I have recently joined a static group on my server toprogress from a10s onwards. Until now I have healed new content. Now I suddenly found that the most important job I have is to dps. I feel way out of my depth , I have so many spells. Ok in a10s first I got shadowflre, then aero, bio2,miasma, bio, mash, macro embrace on tank, broil, fey wind on cd, in between dot uptime galvanize tank buster sacred soil, lustrate, oh I forgot blizard 2 on adds, eye for an eye on tank virus on boss. Dont know if I left anything out.As offheal press the switches. Please let me be a healer with a a few dps spells I feel so stressed Im wanting to stop playing it. Statics wont let me heal on my server . This is not fun for me. I know I am not the only scholar that would like to be a healer. Oh I do admire you pro dps scholars but I do like healing. I just got too much to do 2 jobs with lots of spells.

I never really felt like much of a healer as scholar. Sure i put up shields and indom as needed...but i felt like i cast way more dots and broil than i did heal.

WHM has assize, aero 3 and Holy so its great fun balancing cleric stance with healing and regen.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

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I'm sorry to say, but the way SCH is you'll always end up being the off-healer.

SCH branches off a DPS classes so it has a large number of DPS abilities, with a good number of utility options. This coupled with the fact that they have a fairy that doesn't get effected by your own GCD or Cleric Stance, you have a perfect Job to take up the role as a DPS/Healer. Not saying that SCH aren't good at healing, they are, but the are the best in the off-healer role. It's like WAR. WAR are really good as the MT, but they make the best OT.

If you want the heal I would suggest looking at AST or WHM.

Thank you Vanillefang for being so right. :)
I'm still confused when people still think sch is a pure healer x) How can we possibly forget the fact that for the first 30 lvl we were dps ?

Try out Astro, either as main or offhealer. You have 3 dots and you can run same encounters as sch when u are more familiar with them.

[QUOTE=VanilleFang;3934041]I'm sorry to say, but the way SCH is you'll always end up being the off-healer.

SCH branches off a DPS classes so it has a large number of DPS abilities, with a good number of utility options. This coupled with the fact that they have a fairy that doesn't get effected by your own GCD or Cleric Stance, you have a perfect Job to take up the role as a DPS/Healer. Not saying that SCH aren't good at healing, they are, but the are the best in the off-healer role. It's like WAR. WAR are really good as the MT, but they make the best OT.

If you want the heal I would suggest looking at AST or WHM.[/QUOTE I have got wmg and ast, to me scholar is the class I want to play as healer. It looks like I dont have a choice of what I would like to play. Im still hoping my opinion matters though.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I have got wmg and ast, to me scholar is the class I want to play as healer. It looks like I dont have a choice of what I would like to play. Im still hoping my opinion matters though.

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You can make it work, but you can't have a traditional coheal. You won't be optimal but as long as you're clearing content and having fun with the experience, do it.

Please try to get more familiar with your dps skills as well. This will strengthen your understanding of rate of damage and will really help you become an even better healer.

Whm for sure I just find dots boring by the time , you put dots on trash with scholar , in that same amount of time those adds will be dead with holy from whm.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Whm for sure I just find dots boring by the time , you put dots on trash with scholar , in that same amount of time those adds will be dead with holy from whm.

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You're overestimating Holy. Or underestimating sch's dots. It wont take us much time to dot+bane. Also, holy takes way too much mana to be relevant.

My group is doing a WHM/AST setup with my as AST off heal... it was a tough conversion period as main healer has been what I do for about a year... but I actually really like AST as a DPS. It doesn't require you to be melee range to do AoE attacks, it has enough single target damage to keep your DPS numbers high on the boss, it has a butt ton of regen for yourself, it can keep your party DPS buffed, it can keep your main healer sufficient in mana, and has enough utility to be a proper off healer. Tho DPS does take a nasty hit if you need to do some extra healing since DoTs arent all that potent and outside of lightspeed and swiftcast, you have no instant casts for DPS or party heals, so that hurts... but I'm loving the AST off heal life so far... low stress, very straight forward... just recognise whats coming next and prepare your DoTs or your shields and Disable.

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Originally Posted by GraumSenpai

My group is doing a WHM/AST setup with my as AST off heal... it was a tough conversion period as main healer has been what I do for about a year... but I actually really like AST as a DPS. It doesn't require you to be melee range to do AoE attacks, it has enough single target damage to keep your DPS numbers high on the boss, it has a butt ton of regen for yourself, it can keep your party DPS buffed, it can keep your main healer sufficient in mana, and has enough utility to be a proper off healer. Tho DPS does take a nasty hit if you need to do some extra healing since DoTs arent all that potent and outside of lightspeed and swiftcast, you have no instant casts for DPS or party heals, so that hurts... but I'm loving the AST off heal life so far... low stress, very straight forward... just recognise whats coming next and prepare your DoTs or your shields and Disable.

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Yep ast is fun to play this way too. Happy you're enjoying playing it. :)

I lied there is stress its just that my WHM takes like 90% of it... my stress is from teaching new people in the static A9S 5 hours before reset and we still needed the weekly clear ;_; RIP Manifesto.

For the OP: It depends. On boss fights, yes, you want to give your DoTs a 100% uptime if possible. This means refreshing all four basic DoTs and keeping Shadow Flare up at all times. Remember that using Sacred Soil erases Shadow Flare, so you have to renew it after mitigating with SS.

On trash pulls, it's likely you won't need to refresh DoTs, as a single application of all three+Bane will most likely be enough to last until all mobs are below 15% HP due to party DPS. In this case, redotting and Baning is not very optimal. For these cases, just put Blizzard II on your Cross class skills instead of Stoneskin and AoE them to death, but ONLY if there's 4 or more mobs. If there's 3 or less, just Broil them individually.

That said, I do find SCH to be the job in which DPSing is the most fun, for the reason that properly using your fairy's toolkit allows you to not drop Cleric Stance. Ever. Pulling this off in trash pulls that are as big as an entire floor is super satisfying, and regularly my tank friends comment that whenever they heal those pulls they have to be on the tank for 40%ish of the time.

On the other end of satisfaction, only when it comes to DPS in trash pulls, I love WHM. WHM's AoE burst is ridiculously stupid, and you don't need 4 GCDs to set up your AoE dps like SCH does. In A9S, my WHM friend used to jump to as much as 2k DPS on adds phases because of holy and assize. In the meantime, I never even had time to Bane before mobs were below 30% because I was on generator carrying duty.

So, by these two examples, it depends on what you prefer!

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Originally Posted by Phileas

I never really felt like much of a healer as scholar. Sure i put up shields and indom as needed...but i felt like i cast way more dots and broil than i did heal.

WHM has assize, aero 3 and Holy so its great fun balancing cleric stance with healing and regen.

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Originally Posted by Feyona

I have recently joined a static group on my server toprogress from a10s onwards. Until now I have healed new content. Now I suddenly found that the most important job I have is to dps. I feel way out of my depth , I have so many spells. Ok in a10s first I got shadowflre, then aero, bio2,miasma, bio, mash, macro embrace on tank, broil, fey wind on cd, in between dot uptime galvanize tank buster sacred soil, lustrate, oh I forgot blizard 2 on adds, eye for an eye on tank virus on boss. Dont know if I left anything out.As offheal press the switches. Please let me be a healer with a a few dps spells I feel so stressed Im wanting to stop playing it. Statics wont let me heal on my server . This is not fun for me. I know I am not the only scholar that would like to be a healer. Oh I do admire you pro dps scholars but I do like healing. I just got too much to do 2 jobs with lots of spells.

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The problem with how SCH is currently shoehorned into this weird pre-conception that they should only be DPSing is kind of errant, imo. The goal of BOTH healers, regardless of their job, should be to DPS as much as possible without compromising their healing requirements. For this reason, I grind my teeth every time I see videos of an AST or WHM who just stand there waiting to cast cure because they are "main healers." This is wrong, because they are neglecting and ignoring the fact that SCH can provide as much healing, much faster, and by sacrificing less resources.

SCH's fairy facilitates not only that SCH provides high amounts of DPS, but also that the other healer does the same. If you add to this that SCH has the most amount of instant healing abilities per minute, you realize that you can take a lot of leverage off your co-healers shoulders. If you want to heal as SCH, start using Eos first. Selene's mini haste is cool and all, but the amount of utility Eos provide for both healers is incredible. A Roused Whispering Dawn can help you and your co-healer stay in Cleric Stance for ridiculously long periods of time without bothering to heal after raid-wide damage. Fey Illumination can make your co-healer's regens stronger, which means less need to go out of CS to provide extra healing, etc. On top of this, Lustrate and Indomitability being off the GCD means that you can cast Aero/Bio, pop out of Clerics, use any of these two on whoever needs emergency healing and pop back to Cleric in virtually the same GCD. Scholar is the healer with most action efficiency, and you should abuse this.

I understand your frustration with wanting to heal, but the way healing is designed in FFXIV, it's a job that constantly balances decision making based on finding windows in which you can DPS between windows of heavy damage. To maximize your toolkit, you and your other healer have to recognize that SCH's tools facilitate maximizing these DPS windows. It's a joint effort in which both healers have to understand this and attempt to DPS as much as possibly by abusing the very powerful fairy cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

If you want the heal I would suggest looking at AST or WHM.

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Or ask for large pulls. ;) Of course, this applies to mostly four-man content where SCH has no choice but to main heal, and AoE is sufficient for said large pull. But it is still a way to heal more as SCH. Otherwise yup, SCH is shoe horned into the OH role. They can MH at the cost of a lot of their utility, which is less than optimal if there already is a WHM or AST in the group and they are on their feet.

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Originally Posted by cetrei

So I'm mostly a SCH main, and I noticed that most of the time playing as SCH I was just pressing 1 for Broil until my eyes fell out of my sockets.

So now I have 2 questions:
1. In your personal opinion, which healer is the most satisfying to DPS as? WHM seems obvious, it hurls rocks and gusts of wind at people and you get to spam Holy, but at the same time AST seems like it has a similar deal with its malefics and Gravity, as well as the jolly fun of enhanced arrow or balance.

2. Whats the best way to DPS as SCH? Should I be making sure that all of my DoTs are up the whole duration of long fights? Or should I just be pressing 1 all the time?

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1. I can only speak for SCH and WHM since I don't have AST unlocked, but of the two it is SCH. As another posted stated, it is very gratifying when you can get Bane and Shadow Flare up during a large pull. That kind of DMG output is just insane for the little enmity it generates. The job also starts out as DPS, so it is exactly what I signed up for. Each of these cases is not true with WHM. However, I do enjoy WHMs burst ability. But what I truly love about that job are the big heals.

2. Well, I guess the best way is to have all your DoTs up, refreshing as they expire, broiling in between, and casting Energy Drain if a stack is not needed to heal or mitigate. The most simple way I can explain DPSing as SCH is applying the ABC rule in order to get Bane and Shadow Flare up asap. You make heal/mitigation/cleanse checks before proceeding with each. Personally, I usually open with Shadow Flare due to it costing one gcd and still valid to use even on fast trash pulls.

I believe broil has been explained as filler, and being lower on your list of abilities to cast. However, you will still be casting it a lot. If it is just a matter of experience, these windows will open themselves up to you as you run more and more content as SCH.

it sad that as healer we need think wich class from healing is the best to do DPS...i hope they change it...as now i think the best dps is SCH becouse you put DoT then you can stay on healing mode also we got nice pet so with good macros it can be very nice second Offhealer ^^ then you got 3 healer on party ^^

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Originally Posted by Kurtyzana

it sad that as healer we need think wich class from healing is the best to do DPS...i hope they change it...as now i think the best dps is SCH becouse you put DoT then you can stay on healing mode also we got nice pet so with good macros it can be very nice second Offhealer ^^ then you got 3 healer on party ^^

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It's really not that bad from my experience. You still get to heal plenty in the healer role. Groups will always require heals, and while staying up without them is possible, it is severely inefficient to do so. To those who frown a bit at the DPS expectations of the role should try to find the silver lining. In this game, your DPS ability allows you to complete content on your own such as MSQ solo instances, hunting logs, FATEs, unsynced dungeons and so forth.

That is not to say that there are not times when your group is literally taking no damage and you can DPS all day. In these groups I tell the tank to pull more. For me, they need to pull more than my fairy can handle, and I usually use Eos. If I can't get Bane up, it's a little on the heavy side.

You will almost always need to heal for bosses. They are notorious for unavoidable raid damage and you have to be ready for when this happens. Then there is the matter of your group being able to dodge, if they can't be ready to heal if they are still alive.

I understand your frustration with wanting to heal, but the way healing is designed in FFXIV, it's a job that constantly balances decision making based on finding windows in which you can DPS between windows of heavy damage. To maximize your toolkit, you and your other healer have to recognize that SCH's tools facilitate maximizing these DPS windows. It's a joint effort in which both healers have to understand this and attempt to DPS as much as possibly by abusing the very powerful fairy cooldowns.[/QUOTE] So strange I have recently been kicked out of a static not on my healing but for my dps abilities. Nothing wrong with my healing, as I have usually done more healing than my ast co heal. So now I did wmg a9s much easir to do dps with wmg and faster. Scolar takes so long to put dots on. Scholar is faster at healing wmg is faster dps.._its so illogical tome that scholar is the dps cos I did more dps on my wmg without hardly trying.

hmm I dono maybe Im the odd man out but holy with whm on trash pulls seems like it gets alot more done than spreading your dots on adds but maybe thats just me and Im whm bias.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

hmm I dono maybe Im the odd man out but holy with whm on trash pulls seems like it gets alot more done than spreading your dots on adds but maybe thats just me and Im whm bias.

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I can agree, the dps numbers will skyrocket immediately and can it feel satisfying with Gravity and Holy over the slow-eating flesh of DoTs. But we have Blizzard 2 which works too, SCH should generally replace Stoneskin with that.

(Plus I get a bit annoyed seeing that SCH only use Stoneskin like they are WHM trapped in a SCH body. You have a better shield for tanks, thanks.)

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Originally Posted by Feyona

So now I did wmg a9s much easir to do dps with wmg and faster. Scolar takes so long to put dots on. Scholar is faster at healing wmg is faster dps.._its so illogical tome that scholar is the dps cos I did more dps on my wmg without hardly trying.

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How is it easier to DPS as a WHM? I'm confused. SCH has a Fairy and came from a DPS class.

A WHM damage is more front loaded/burst, so yeah they deal damage "faster" but they deal less damage in the end. I don't even really know how to explain it to you since your post is so confusing.

SCH deals more damage for less MP and with more "free time".

SCH is better at DPS/Co-Healing while a WHM is better at Main healing. Just by looking at their kits this should be obvious.

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Originally Posted by Kurtyzana

it sad that as healer we need think which class from healing is the best to do DPS...i hope they change it...as now i think the best dps is SCH becouse you put DoT then you can stay on DPS mode, also we got nice pet so it can be very nice second Off/Main Healer ^^ then you got 2 healer on party ^^

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Fixed that for you somewhat.

IMO, SCH is pretty satisfying to DPS as because you can weave in Energy Drain on oGCDs and try to plan for better dots than just 1-2-3-4. But if you're not interested in SCH, then WHM has more oGCDs like Fluid Aura or Assize that you can sneak in at close range. AST has 3 dots and Malefic II, most of the fun comes from handling cards.

Of the three, AST - > WHM -> SCH in terms of DPS simplicity.

1. Personally i find AST the most satisfying. In the end I see all the healers dps as 90% the same, DoTs then spam one skill until you need to reapply. What makes AST feel more satisfying to me is simply the fact the skills look cooler. WHM has the blandest looking skills in the game to me aside from holy and to a lesser extent aero 3 and SCH isn't far off. I think Malefic looks super cool in comparison and Gravity is by far the coolest looking(and sounding) skill in the game. Plus the benefit of tossing cards out on people makes it even more fun since aside from my own DPS I get to amplify my teammates as well.

2. Yes in fights especially bosses you should ideally never let your DoTs fall off. For trash mobs it's a little more lenient to allow depending on how close they are to death.

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Originally Posted by Verutes

Yes in fights especially bosses you should ideally never let your DoTs fall off. For trash mobs it's a little more lenient to allow depending on how close they are to death.

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Potency of Spammable skill (malefic II) - Base potency of DoT if applicable (Aero as an example, usually 0) / Potency of DoT tick = Server ticks necessary to be a raw PPS gain , without factoring in SS bonus. Round up.

Server ticks * 3 = Seconds necessary to reach this potency.

[Malefic II (200) -0] ÷ Combust II (45) = 4.44 ~=5 server ticks. You can safely clip Combust II for a DPS gain with 15 seconds remaining (30-15=15.)

Aero you should let fall off, unless in a 24 man raid where it will become hidden and impossible to track, then just try to get close. Ideally, you should be applying your dots 1 second before they fall off (because they will fall off as you're applying them then) if instant and 3 seconds if casted, to reach full potency. Always measure your DoTs against your spammable skills. Weaving with Aero/combust/bio lowers the amount necessary because you are essentially saving 1-2 seconds of GCD DPS while utilizing your free OGCD time.

I find WHM to be the most satisfying to dps on purely because it has so much burst. The one thing I struggle with though on WHM is mana management, I'm a SCH main so sometimes I forget to focus on my MP and get really greedy with dps then end up with no mana. XD

SCH is definitely the easist to dps on though, especially because MP isn't an issue, it's consistant and easier to hop in and out of cleric imo.